Nicki

*Re-posted because moderator said to. However I see plenty other posts in 3rd Generation that could be considered "car-talk" too bad there's no consistency in their evaluation of category. Anyway here's the article in new York Newsday today.


Acura wants a stronger image



BY KATHY JACKSON
AUTOWEEK

February 5, 2006


DETROIT - Overshadowed by Lexus, BMW and Mercedes-Benz, Acura needs a stronger identity, says Dick Colliver, executive vice president of sales at American Honda Motor Co.

"We're not on all the shopping lists we'd like to be," he said at the recent Detroit auto show. "So we have to bring the right product."

To elevate Acura's presence, Honda Motor Co. will open a design studio for Acura near Honda's U.S. headquarters in Torrance, Calif., in 2007. Acura and Honda designers now share a studio.

Although Acura has enjoyed healthy sales in recent years, data from Compete Inc. in Boston illustrate Acura's problem. Compete, a marketing research firm, says the $33,000 Acura TL, the brand's best seller, was cross-shopped with the Honda Accord more than any other model the past year.

"Ideally, they'd like to see that be Infiniti or Lexus," says Lincoln Merrihew, who heads the automotive division at Compete. "There's too much overlap between Honda and Acura. That's more to the detriment of Acura."

Colliver said the new studio's designers will create only Acura products. They also will work with the ad agency and Acura product planners so that everyone is in sync on where the brand needs to go.

In addition to fresh styling, Colliver said, the company wants to position Acura as a luxury brand with unique technology and performance.

"We're not chasing Lexus. It is not our intent to be everything to everybody," he said. "We will stress performance and advanced technology. This is part of our long-term goal to separate Acura from Honda - to develop Acura as a global brand."

Acura is sold only in this country. It was launched in 1986, the first Asian luxury brand sold in the United States. It plans to start sales in Japan in 2008.

U.S. sales of Acuras last year were 209,610, up 5.4 percent from 2004 and up 46.9 percent from 2000. For comparison, Lexus posted U.S. sales of 302,895 last year.

Colliver said it will probably be about 2010 before the world sees the first Acura created at the design center, but he gave some hints about where the brand is headed.

The executive said the company still has no plans to offer a V-8 engine but is leaning toward all-wheel drive. Today, only the MDX sport utility vehicle and the RL sedan are equipped with all-wheel drive. The new RDX, a small SUV that goes on sale this summer, also will have all-wheel drive and is equipped with Acura's first turbocharged engine.

The NSX sports car, which will be redesigned before the end of the decade, will be powered by a 10-cylinder engine. "The new NSX gives us an opportunity to expand with the 10-cylinder," Colliver said.

He also said the company wants to appeal to more male customers.

GreenMonster

This is old news to me... The CL was cross-shopped w/ the accord too. The lack of sales of the CL lead to it's discontuation... This was 3 years ago... Acura executives are only discovering this now ??

It's been long known that there is too much overlap between acura and honda. The RSX is crossshopped w/ the Civic SI....

The Acura brand should be more sporty, and the Honda brand should be geared more towards the fuel effecient soccer mom type vehicles... I've always thought the S2000 should have been an Acura instead of a honda...

This will be the first car designed at the NEW ACURA design center, but the 1997 CL was the first Acura model to be designed and built in the United States...

It's sad when a average joe like me can poke holes in an article about acura, and I'm not even on the payroll

Who hires these guys ??

biker

Sounds more like marketing hype.

Unless Honda ponies up the big $$$$ like Lexus to really split Acura and Honda you'll still have plenty of overlap. Just going to AWD from FWD is not going to do it.

GreenMonster

Oh, the article is online here (posted on January 16, 2006 - 6:00 am):

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...15/detroit2006

EDIT: Gav, not sure if this has been covered in another thread. feel free to moderate

gocubsgo55

yeah they do! I bet seeing Lexus zoom passed them is making Acura and Infiniti go crazy. I V8, halo car, AWD, and not giving away great selling cars that need not be sold at invoice would help for starters

F23A4

I've see some folks here post similar statements on Azine only to get flamed badly. Damn those facts.

That definitely puts pressure on Acura dealers to justify (to buyers) the $5-$7k+ premium of the TL over the AV6 EX. Saving $5k+ > having Bluetooth & HIDs IMHO.

Ken1997TL

F23A4..

Normally I would agree with you but it was the Accords front end that killed it for me. I like the '06 taillights.. but I wanted the Honda Inspire grill to go with it!

Otherwise, I'm happy with the '05 TL

neuronbob

Nice find.

I admit cross-shopping the 2G TL with the 7G Accord. If the Accord hadn't been so bland, I'd have one instead of the TL.

I didn't cross-shop the 3G TL at all, once I drank the value-luxury Kool-Aid, and it got more tasty (e.g. more stuff), I stayed.

In any case, there should be more of an effort to separate Honda and Acura. It's already started in the dealerships....when I referred once to my TL as an expensive Honda, the salesman took great offense. Improving the service departments by studying what Lexus does would be another item. While I'm happy with my dealer, I read too many posts in which the dealer is offering shady service. There's one such thread in 3G now, take a look. https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131011

Bob

SirWaWa

"Acura is sold only in this country."
Canada doesn't count as a country?

TSX69

Thanks to the CSX, I would try to ignore that market too ....

fuckleberry

Ken1997TL

Acura is sold in the US, Canada, Mexico, Hong Kong and soon Japan and China

RWalker2

Didn't they just release a statement saying that Acura wasn't going to compete with the likes of Lexus, BMW, etc and was staying as a performance (with some luxury) brand?

stangg172004

V8

importtuner

Rwd!

SirWaWa

did u even read the article?

M TYPE X

Anyone pay any attention to the features lists of the Honda and Acura lineup?
There are real differences between V6 Accords and Acura TLs.

TL CHROMETIDE

Acura should be better with:

V6 that produces > 300hp on a RWD
V8 on the SH-AWD

It's just my opinion though.

SpeedyV6

It's going to be tough to compete with IS350's and M45's if all you're using is some variant of an Accord platform.

titan

... not to mention the G35s and the GS's...

dom

Their own design stuidio is definently a step in the right direction though.

Better late than never.

RWalker2

I didn't mean they were going to create a LS, A8, 7 Series competitor but

"Although Acura has enjoyed healthy sales in recent years, data from Compete Inc. in Boston illustrate Acura's problem. Compete, a marketing research firm, says the $33,000 Acura TL, the brand's best seller, was cross-shopped with the Honda Accord more than any other model the past year.

"Ideally, they'd like to see that be Infiniti or Lexus," says Lincoln Merrihew, who heads the automotive division at Compete. "

It looks like they want to be a real competitor in the 3 series/A4/IS/G35 (which most will agree they are, but they can still improve) and 5 series/A6/GS/M45 (which the RL is failing miserably at.

F23A4

I hear you Ken. IMHO, Honda should have revised the frontend. The 03-05 rear looked OK to me (other than the fact that it sort of resembled a Buick Regal. ) But the new rear does give the Accord sedan a more upscale appearance.

The xshopping between the TL and AV6EX says more about how great the Accord is rather than asserting any TL shortcomings (of which there are VERY few).

bigman

The problem with Honda/Acura is that Honda needs to stay sporty, economic and a hair luxurious to compete with Toyota, Nissan and now Hyundai. Nissan has the sportiness in the Altima, plus they offer leather, nav and all the bells and whistles. Toyota's Camry is not too different from the Lexus ES, and the acord needs to compete with that as well. So, in order to compete, the accord needs to have some luxury items, some gizmos, and some power. Now, where does that leave the TL? Acura has the styling, some stiifer suspension, a better nav/audio package, better interior, and some extra features. But one thing the TL is missing is the image. Infiniti is close to Nissan in some ways, but they have this aura about them. Kinda like they are the bad boys of luxury. Their ads are dark and gritty at times and most of their cars are performers. Lexus is ver luxurious and their dealerships are better than Mercedes and BMW. I think acura would succed if they set themselves apart from Honda. They'd be able to do that if say all their cars had SH-AWD. Add some power to that and you have some really awesome cars.

Motohip

That statement was correct. Since the design center hasn't been finished/built yet, there can be no Acura designed and built from it. The CL was designed and built somewhere else.

Moog-Type-S

Acura must learn to compete head to head with other lux brand models...otherwise they will stay right where they are...a niche brand.

TypeRS

the only way Acura is gonna move up a class or two is to ditch it's conservative ways. In other words, offer what people want and expect from a higher end luxury brand:

-offer RWD and V8s on the higher end models.
-Ditch the RSX or move it upscale. in other words: don't offer any sub-$25k models in the lineup
-Move the TSX to a V6/inline6 engine (NO turbocharging)
-Produce a sporty CL-successor that can compete against the G35 coupe/BMW 3-series coupe.
-make the RL bigger or create a higher end flagship to compete against the 7-series/LS/S-Class
-Offer a sporty roadster/sports coupe to go against the 6-series/SC430
-Better designs!! ditch the 5-pointed grille as it never did look good for Acura anyway and it seemed to hinder much of it's attractiveness in the front end. Mazda does a better 5-point grille and their cars looks way sportier up front.

But knowing honda, they will probably shift all future acuras to AWD which is not bad. It's just they'll end up being an Audi competitor than BMW/Lexus.

Gohensun

I think the #1 reason people don't think Acuras are at the same level as Mercedes/Lexus/BMWs is because Acura offer sub-$25k models.

I mean the RSX and the CSX are good cars for their prices, but Acura needs to hold an "expensive" image. When something is expensive, it gives the perception of Luxury (car has to look good as well)! The TSX, in a nutshell, is just a dumb-downed version of the TL.

Basically, for Acura to do well implementations should be along these lines:
- TSX is the lowest Acura model
- RSX to RWD + souped up with more ponies (supercharged V6) to compete with the likes of G35
- an RSX convertible
- TL stays the way it is with AWD
- RL more power and more cylinders (V8 would be nice)
- bring NSX up to 500-600HP + V10 or V12

and they got cars spread across most of the performance and luxury spectrum! If they shoot for this in the next 10 years, they got themsevles a awesome line-up.

gocubsgo55

TSX, 240+ HP turbo is ok here, AWD option
TL, 300+ HP, AWD
RL, 300+ HP, AWD, V8 option

RDX, turbo is ok here
MDX, 300+ HP, V8 option

CL, 350+ HP V6, RWD/ AWD
NSX, 550+ HP V10, RWD

"The R Division"

TSX-R
CL-R
NSX-R?

I'm getting WAAY too carried away

M TYPE X

I don't think of Honda anymore as being 'sporty.' Acura is sporty and upmarket. Most Hondas are just bland. The CR-V and Pilot are good, but they're nothing more than utilitarian. Honda sedans = teh same. The coupes are fairly sporty-looking, especially in an age when few automakers really produce good mainstream four-seat coupes.

Motohip

I'm likin' it.

EDIT: It's funny...when I tell people I drive an Acura, they think I'm rich. Anyone else get that from people????

M TYPE X

My aunt...

Motohip

In your case I think that's justifiable, Mr. NSX

Mokos23

The reason Acura isn't considered a serious luxury brand is cause it's styling on their cars are mostly bland except for the TL and TSX. Even then, both don't have a lot of options.

Plus why did Honda cars get that key fob before any Acura cars? I mean when you see that key fob they are on more expensive cars.

Also, key bonehead moves include making the RSX a Honda and the S2000 as an Acura instead.

They need better designs, more torque to make their cars go faster off the line like Infiniti and Lexus cars, they need a V8, better publicity, and re-educate their customer service and make it better like Lexus and Infiniti.

mrdeeno

reverse that?

F23A4

To that end, Honda should have scrapped the Civic coupe and moved the RSX to Honda and renamed it the Integra.

The S2000 is fine where it is (although its F20C could benefit from VTC to smooth out the power curve).

Mokos23

nope, i still think the s2000 should be an Acura to compete with the Z4 and it might take some sales away from BMW Z4.

the RSX is a joke and a disgrace to be an Acura.

mrdeeno

that's what I meant...your post was reversed...it said

which is saying that is exactly what they did...making the RSX a honda and s2000 an Acura....and these were bonehead moves. But it's reversed because they didn't do this.

what you should've said was:

"key bonehead moves include NOT making the RSX a Honda and S2000 an Acura instead."

because the moves are boneheaded because they DIDN'T do it.

Mokos23

oh it's been a long day at work i've been up since 430am, whoops

mrdeeno

I've been studying for GMATs so the sentence correction part has been sticking in my head for awhile.