GreenMonster

MSZ, I can't read japanese, so what's the difference between them... looks like one division for the sportscars( NSX, S2000, RSX ) one for the cars (Accord/TSX, Legend/RL) and one for the Van and utility vehicles...

I guess some of the models are available from all 3 dealer networks, but some are only available thru each one

I would so rock a That's...

MSZ

To keep it more simple:

Primo = K-car/compact car
Clio = everyday car but more expensive than the compacts
Verno = sporty

And yes, some of the models are available from all 3 dealers.

SeCsTaC

Do you really think Acura will build an S class/7 series competitor? They can't even sell a 50k car, (42kish now). I love acura and all but they dropped the ball on the RL

vtecracer

I think this is a big step for Acura. With the introduction of Acura in Japan, I expect the next generation of Acura cars to be even more world-class. The next generation of Acura automobiles will now probably have a much greater influence from Japan through out the development process, instead of mostly US designers like for the NA only TL and MDX. Afterall, Japan will be Acura's second largest market (not sure if Mexico will still be bigger). Japan will WANT to be involved in the development of the next generation of Acura's. With Japan being more involved, chances are good that Acura of NA automobiles will be even more desireable. Honda is not a stupid company. They know what it will take to make Acura a winner in Japan. Im fairly certain Honda is working on a few big secret projects right now that will move the Acura brand up to a new level before the start of the next decade.

rondog

iTrader: (1)

Thats what I'm sayin, they don't have the confidence to go ahead with it. They will most likely run with what is already doing well, like the RSX, TSX, and TL.

vtecracer

Here is something I have said in the past regarding RL sales:

One of the major things the RL is missing is proper PR and marketing. ALL magazines that have compared the RL to the Lexus GS have claimed the RL to be the better car (more power, more technology, better build quality and materials, etc...), yet the Lexus sells in double the numbers. Why? Lexus just does a better job of marketing itself as a luxury car. Aside from that, there is no difference between Lexus and Acura. Most people know this but are WAAAAY to biased to admit it. Additionally, the RL should have been sold NOT fully loaded with a lower starting MSRP. This in turn would have attracted more buyers into the showroom and they could have tailored the RL to their own specific needs and wants.

03TL-S

They should try convincing the US that the RL is worth its price tag first, develop a V8 engine at the least, and then incorporate RWD and AWD in all their cars except for maybe one FWD car.

03TL-S

I agree it has alot to do with marketing, but you cant blame the sales on just that. There has to be something about the RL that just doesnt appeal to people buying in that class of cars; whether it be the styling or just the acura name. The Infiniti M is selling pretty well and it basically came from nothing. In the beginning, i saw alot of advertising for the M, but i havent seen anything recently. I have been seeing alot of RL advertising yet it is still not helping. If there was no big difference between lexus and acura, then more sales would be going to acura instead of infiniti right? The RL just doesnt have the appeal that a sport luxury sedan should have although i think it looks pretty nice.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

You can't judge how a car like the RL will do based on how it sells in the US. The US market if very particular and is not even remotely representative of how the rest of the world thinks, especially when it comes to cars.

Americans are too caught up with brand names and status and when spending nearly $50k on a car, a lot of Americans make it their first priority to get a status symbol.

Realistically, having driven the RL and most of its competition, the RL competes incredibly well against its competitors in terms of ride and luxury, but in terms of brand recognition and status, it's closer to an Audi than an MB.

gavriil

Stuck... Thanks MSZ

kurt_bradley

News Flash: The RSX doesn't do well in the states. Until recently, I worked for Acura for about 3 1/2 years (with 2 1/2 years with Honda before that). The RSX's production has been getting worked down over the last couple years due to sluggish sales numbers and little interest. It doesn't help that the less expensive, better performance-equipped Civic Si is hitting the market. The RSX is probably going to get the axe. Besides, it no longer has a place in the Acura lineup.

Since the RSX came out in 2001 as a 2002 model, Acura has definately made an attempt to revamp its brand image that the RSX doesn't seem to go along the lines of. The "Performace Luxury" aim of the Acura brand is a bit grown up for the RSX. Not that it's a bad car. It just serves a better purpose as a Honda. Too bad there's the Si to fill that segment.

As for the TSX, it has already been mentioned that it's the Accord everywhere outside of North America. Though we do get a few different features in the States, something tells me that it would be strange to offer it under the Acura brand. The TL may do well there, but I'm apprehensive because of its size. Though the RL isn't much bigger, it goes after a different buyer, and the Legend seems to sell well in Japan.

Basically, I think it's a gutsy/dangerous move for Honda. Though I do hope it works.

vtecracer

The Infiniti M sells well because it's doing the same thing as Lexus, selling a base model with a low MSRP. Aside for Acura's pricing strategy, I believe the only other major reason for the low sales of the RL is it's conservative exterior. The GS and M are both more aggressive looking while the RL is the more conservative luxury looking car. If Acura built a base model RL starting at around $42,000 with a more agressive design, I have no doubt that it would be selling MUCH better than it is now. Additionally, the US market is way different than Japans. The Acura RL is the Honda Legend in Japan and it sells suprisingly well. Enough to where they have Legend Meets and an actual tuner market for the car. Another note: The Audi A6 in the US sells close to the same amount of numbers as the RL does here. However in Europe, the A6 is the number one selling luxury car outselling everything from Mercedes to Jaguar. Different markets can make a big difference. But aside from all this mumbo-jumbo I'm throwing out, I don't believe Honda would do something stupid like release the current RL out in Japan as an Acura when it is already being sold as a Honda. There is no way Honda is going to let the next RL be a flop. Honda has never had a flop for more than two generations. I expect Japan to receive the next generation Acura RL and no doubt it will (it HAS to be if Acura wants to be successfull in Japan AND the US) a force to be reckoned with.

dom

Coincedentally 2008 is when the all new Japan/Euro Accord/TSX should be ready so its a perfect time to differentiate the TSX from the Japan/Euro Accord.

heyitsme

The Japanese must be caught up on the whole brand/prestige thing also if Lexus/Infiniti/ and now Acura are being introduced there. Think its only logical that people look for a $50k car that has a well respected name to back it up.

Acura should be working to improve their name as a luxury car company, not the other way around with consumers being expected to change how they view things-ex phaeton.

phile

I guess with this move, Honda has no choice but to offer Acura vehicles with the required RWD layout and V8 optional engines. I can see it going into that market with AWD instead of RWD, but an eight cylinder has to be the engine of choice to go against the S-Class and 7-Series.

It's funny about the glass, cause though the glass says Acura on the RL, the LED turn signal has Honda still on it, as well as the gas cap.

M TYPE X

The dealer distribution networks, like all other retail in Japan, are considered to be inefficient by most economists. Both Honda and Nissan are moving to clean their dealer network up.
Nissan wants to change how they sell cars in JDM:
http://forums.freshalloy.com/ubbthre...b=5&o=&fpart=1

WSJ did a writeup today in Section A about this move. I don't know what cars they sell, but the lineup and options will change prior to 2008. Obviously, moving forward, they have ideas in mind.

The only question is why Honda launched Acura in the US in 1986, followed 3-4 years later by Toyota's Lexus and Nissan's Infiniti, but in Japan, Honda waited until both Nissan and Toyota announced that Infiniti and Lexus would be sales brands in Japan. Yeah, I know, Honda is weaker in Japan than it is in the US [vis-a-vis Nissan but the margin in Japan is much wider between Honda and Toyota]. But it smacks of conservatism. I think American Honda is more daring than the home office.

03TL-S

You also have to understand that most M's and GS's have sticker prices of at least 46-48k. The M and GS may have base prices of around 42k, but most of them are not stripped down versions; they are nicely equipped. RL's currently can be bought for as low as 42k, which is a real bargain yet its still not selling that well.

Japan will be a harder market to convince that acura is something more than just a honda. I think acura should have tried expanding to other markets first and then ultimately expand to the motherland like how infiniti and lexus are.

MSZ

Well said, in fact Japan will be only the 6th market for Acura after US, Canada, Hong Kong, Mexico and China(in 06).

TL CHROMETIDE

I'm actually excited about this, what if our Acura's can be made and assembled in Japan now, that would be awesome.

vtecracer

Understood. But you also need to consider the fact that the M and GS DON'T sell for sticker. While a good amount of GS's and M's are optioned out to around $46k, people are going to bargain and bring the price down lower by a couple thousand atleast. So that would pretty much put it back on par with the RL if it had a base model starting at around $42,000. Get what I'm saying? Even the new IS's are being discounted by an amount that is fairly high considering how new the car is (check out the Lexus forums).

biker

See RL, TSX, RSX, NSX.

Seems to me that if this is indeed the case, they must have cars on the drawing board (or even further along) for the launch. Maybe, finally, we'll get a real 3 series challenger in a RWD V6 6MT 4 dr sports sedan. Question is: are people going to pay the premium?

goldmemberer

6 years ago, if you told me Infiniti would create a 3-series fighter/beater, I would've laughed at you.

To answer your question: yes. But the product has to rock.

TL CHROMETIDE

I just want something from Acura to go up against the G35Coupe. V6 RWD coupes are my favorite kind of cars and Acura really needs one.

M TYPE X

FWD, AWD, or RWD ... just something that looks and performs as good as the Legend Coupe did.

LuvMyTSX

The discussion on the page below needs some defenders of Acura/Honda! These people have their heads up their asses IMO. They are saying that people who buy Japanese cars have lower expectations than German buyers, the cars are less sophisticated, and that there are no Japanese luxury brands. FOOLS!!

http://www.autospies.com/article/ind...&categoryId=21

(This link is to the article on the happiest drivers of particular brands)

Sorry if it's a repost, it just made me mad!! We must defend our beloved TSX and all of Honda/Acura!

biker

Just more uninformed biased folks.

M TYPE X

It's AutoSpies. They're not worth the time.

Motohip

They aren't bashing Japanese cars except for the one that sarcasticaly mentioned that Japanese car buyers expect less, therefore are easier to please. The comment about there not being any Luxury Japanese cars was in reference to the article not mentioning them. He wasn't saying they don't exist.

LuvMyTSX

They still sound like morons to me. Very uninformed morons at that. But you're right, they aren't worth the time I guess.

TypeRS

autospies is a shit ass site. all they care about are audis, mb, and bmws...no surprise here. Japanese car owners have no expectations? I guess they're right - no expectations for any major breakdowns, malfunctions or reliability issues.

Ken1997TL

They've been called AutoLIES for years.. and there is a good reason for this.

LuvMyTSX

Ha. Well at least I know not to visit that site again.

MSZ

We have many Honda-bashers here as well. Don't waste your time, they are not worthy.

av6ent

They just shoved heads up their's asses and too blind and overhyped to see the reality of unreliable german cars. Frigging Impala and Grand Prix have better reliability then mid-size/large sedans of MB, BMW, and Audi

Crazy Bimmer

I see no problem here.

invincible569

Hmmm didnt know. Good info for future reference on anything coming from that website.

youngTL

and a half!

Teh Jatt

jesalous

fsttyms1

bunch of tools!

fuckleberry

LOL some of you TSX guys can be so urh...passionate