Acura: RLX News
02-01-2006 | 06:11 PM
#962
Moderator Alumnus
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 8
From: Washington DC (NOVA)
Originally Posted by TSX69
Got this info from Club Lexus --- I knew sales were slow but I had no idea it was last in the market:
5 = 4,681
E = 2,465
GS = 1,978
M = 1,892
STS =
A6 = 1,617
RL = 773
5 = 4,681
E = 2,465
GS = 1,978
M = 1,892
STS =
A6 = 1,617
RL = 773
Let me try and confirm these numbers...
02-01-2006 | 08:11 PM
#964
Fahrvergnügen'd
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,494
Likes: 1,569
From: Maryland
The only problem with the RL is that it's $10k too expensive. If that car was $40k it would do very well I think.
And I hate that everyone is going to Flash for their websites ... It's annoying.
And I hate that everyone is going to Flash for their websites ... It's annoying.
02-01-2006 | 09:02 PM
#966
Suzuka Master
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,349
Likes: 3
From: Lower Nazzie, Pa
Originally Posted by PistonFan
If you look at the actual sales figures for Audi, the vast majority (85%+) are sold without V8 engines.
Look at it this way...for those people who are going to buy a v6 (or i6), they're gonna buy a v6 (or i6).
for those that won't buy anything but a v8, they're not going to buy a v6/i6...and these are the sales that honda/acura is missing out on.
And then there are those that wanted a v8 initially, but when they go to the showroom and after test drives realized the v6 is adequate, end up with the v6. These buyers never enter an Acura dealership in the first place, so Acura's missing out on these "potential" buyers also.
And then some may argue that because of the low sales of v8's, it's not worth the investment for development. Well, every OTHER automaker thinks it's worth the investment, and they aren't whining that their investment in a v8 has been a waste. Instead, they're investing in even more outrageous engines, like in BMW M cars and MB AMG cars...these cars sales PALE in comparison to v6 cars, so does that mean it wasn't worth the development?
With the introduction of the next volvo S80, Acura will be the ONLY mid-size lux player without an 8-cylinder option. In this class, it's an ADVANTAGE having MORE choices for potential buyers, it's a DISADVANTAGE being the automaker that offers the LEAST choices.
02-01-2006 | 09:45 PM
#968
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,796
Likes: 1,400
From: NC
Camry
Originally Posted by Crazy Sellout
22,000 accords? 
02-01-2006 | 10:05 PM
#969
Suzuka Master
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,349
Likes: 3
From: Lower Nazzie, Pa
Originally Posted by TSX69
Even more amazing is that the Camry sold over 27k. This, in its final model year which would have been the last time the Accord outsold the Camry I think.
02-01-2006 | 10:47 PM
#970
Pro
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 638
Likes: 0
From: California
Originally Posted by TSX69
Got this info from Club Lexus --- I knew sales were slow but I had no idea it was last in the market:
5 = 4,681
E = 2,465
GS = 1,978
M = 1,892
STS =
A6 = 1,617
RL = 773
5 = 4,681
E = 2,465
GS = 1,978
M = 1,892
STS =
A6 = 1,617
RL = 773
oh wow...the M is gaining on the GS. Really close.
Acura needs to do something with the RL to make it more attractive to buyers....
02-02-2006 | 12:12 AM
#971
That's Racist
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,634
Likes: 0
From: San Diego native. UCLA resident. =)
Originally Posted by mrdeeno
Maybe the new camry won't as warmly received as the current generation much like the current accord wasn't as warmly received as the previous generation.
The accord was
^just speculation.
02-02-2006 | 07:29 AM
#972
Suzuka Master
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,349
Likes: 3
From: Lower Nazzie, Pa
Originally Posted by Time For Sleeep
I would think not. The camry's new generation isn't a step down in the looks department from the previous car.
The accord was
^just speculation.
The accord was
^just speculation.
02-02-2006 | 07:54 AM
#973
Senior Moderator
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,905
Likes: 1,674
Originally Posted by mrdeeno
If you look at actual sales figures for the RL, the vast majority (uh, 100%?) are sold without V8 engines....still doesn't make it look any better.
Look at it this way...for those people who are going to buy a v6 (or i6), they're gonna buy a v6 (or i6).
for those that won't buy anything but a v8, they're not going to buy a v6/i6...and these are the sales that honda/acura is missing out on.
And then there are those that wanted a v8 initially, but when they go to the showroom and after test drives realized the v6 is adequate, end up with the v6. These buyers never enter an Acura dealership in the first place, so Acura's missing out on these "potential" buyers also.
And then some may argue that because of the low sales of v8's, it's not worth the investment for development. Well, every OTHER automaker thinks it's worth the investment, and they aren't whining that their investment in a v8 has been a waste. Instead, they're investing in even more outrageous engines, like in BMW M cars and MB AMG cars...these cars sales PALE in comparison to v6 cars, so does that mean it wasn't worth the development?
With the introduction of the next volvo S80, Acura will be the ONLY mid-size lux player without an 8-cylinder option. In this class, it's an ADVANTAGE having MORE choices for potential buyers, it's a DISADVANTAGE being the automaker that offers the LEAST choices.
Look at it this way...for those people who are going to buy a v6 (or i6), they're gonna buy a v6 (or i6).
for those that won't buy anything but a v8, they're not going to buy a v6/i6...and these are the sales that honda/acura is missing out on.
And then there are those that wanted a v8 initially, but when they go to the showroom and after test drives realized the v6 is adequate, end up with the v6. These buyers never enter an Acura dealership in the first place, so Acura's missing out on these "potential" buyers also.
And then some may argue that because of the low sales of v8's, it's not worth the investment for development. Well, every OTHER automaker thinks it's worth the investment, and they aren't whining that their investment in a v8 has been a waste. Instead, they're investing in even more outrageous engines, like in BMW M cars and MB AMG cars...these cars sales PALE in comparison to v6 cars, so does that mean it wasn't worth the development?
With the introduction of the next volvo S80, Acura will be the ONLY mid-size lux player without an 8-cylinder option. In this class, it's an ADVANTAGE having MORE choices for potential buyers, it's a DISADVANTAGE being the automaker that offers the LEAST choices.
02-02-2006 | 11:05 AM
#975
Pinky all stinky
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 20,665
Likes: 191
Originally Posted by Teh Jatt
offer v6 and v8 in RL and it'll do well. 
). Nothing they can do about the size now, but IMO the RL should've been about the size of the Avalon.
02-02-2006 | 12:03 PM
#976
I'm a llama :(
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 4,243
Likes: 0
From: Washington
Options like V8 and a lot of other crap seam to lure people into the showroom, but they end up leaving with the lesser model. I bet a lot of people that go in to look at the RL end up leaving with the TL. Just a guess...
02-02-2006 | 12:33 PM
#977
Suzuka Master
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,349
Likes: 3
From: Lower Nazzie, Pa
Originally Posted by Motohip
Options like V8 and a lot of other crap seam to lure people into the showroom, but they end up leaving with the lesser model. I bet a lot of people that go in to look at the RL end up leaving with the TL. Just a guess...
People go into the acura showroom to look at the V8 RL...they end up leaving with a V6 RL. Chalk up another sale for the RL!
there's a class-difference problem between the RL and TL. When someone goes in to look at an RL, they likely don't want to drop a class and get a TL...they just end up going elsewhere. I'm sure there are a few cross shoppers, but most people going into the showroom are looking to spend $50k or less, WITHOUT dropping to a lower class.
02-02-2006 | 12:51 PM
#978
Banned
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 0
From: Champaign, Illinois
Originally Posted by mrdeeno
Let's assume that's true and apply it to a theoretical model...
People go into the acura showroom to look at the V8 RL...they end up leaving with a V6 RL. Chalk up another sale for the RL!
there's a class-difference problem between the RL and TL. When someone goes in to look at an RL, they likely don't want to drop a class and get a TL...they just end up going elsewhere. I'm sure there are a few cross shoppers, but most people going into the showroom are looking to spend $50k or less, WITHOUT dropping to a lower class.
People go into the acura showroom to look at the V8 RL...they end up leaving with a V6 RL. Chalk up another sale for the RL!
there's a class-difference problem between the RL and TL. When someone goes in to look at an RL, they likely don't want to drop a class and get a TL...they just end up going elsewhere. I'm sure there are a few cross shoppers, but most people going into the showroom are looking to spend $50k or less, WITHOUT dropping to a lower class.
02-02-2006 | 01:10 PM
#979
Suzuka Master
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,349
Likes: 3
From: Lower Nazzie, Pa
Originally Posted by M TYPE X
Lexus sells very few V8-powered GS series. It's all about popping up the V6 sales by offering the V8.
Not true for Acura though...they don't have a v8 to prop up anything.
I would've bought the RL had it offered a v8...another potential sale lost.
02-02-2006 | 01:25 PM
#980
Pinky all stinky
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 20,665
Likes: 191
I don't think most people can tell that the TL is a class below the RL when they visit the showrooms. And that's the problem because once they see the price difference between the two, they can't see why the RL is that much more expensive. Which is why the RL, IMO, should've been larger than the TL, so at least customers can see the class difference. Cause what's reflected in the price difference between the RL and TL (AWD, aluminum subframe (read: $$), techno-gadgets) isn't visible to customers.
02-02-2006 | 01:31 PM
#981
Moto Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 596
Likes: 0
From: Sacramento, CA
Originally Posted by mrdeeno
there's a class-difference problem between the RL and TL. When someone goes in to look at an RL, they likely don't want to drop a class and get a TL...they just end up going elsewhere. I'm sure there are a few cross shoppers, but most people going into the showroom are looking to spend $50k or less, WITHOUT dropping to a lower class.
02-02-2006 | 01:31 PM
#982
Senior Moderator
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,905
Likes: 1,674
Originally Posted by M TYPE X
Lexus sells very few V8-powered GS series. It's all about popping up the V6 sales by offering the V8.
IMHO, there are probably only a handful of people who'd prefer a 302hp E500 over the 268hp E350 for just the sake of 34hp. (<--- After driving both, I personally can attest that the E350 doesnt give up much performance to the E500. )Admittedly, the V8s are for those folks who thoroughly enjoy the V6/I6 models but prefer that it have a bit more power.
That said, a V8 motor would add a similar dimension to the RL. I'll even reach further and assert that a V8 motor would represent a greater percentage of total RL sales than its MB/BMW/Infiniti/Lexus counterparts, so long as its competetively priced.
02-03-2006 | 02:08 AM
#983
Registered Abuser of VTEC
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 6,542
Likes: 115
From: Edmonton, Alberta
Originally Posted by F23A4
True, and the same goes with the 5-series/Infiniti M-Class/E-class. IMHO, there are probably only a handful of people who'd prefer a 302hp E500 over the 268hp E350 for just the sake of 34hp. (<--- After driving both, I personally can attest that the E350 doesnt give up much performance to the E500. )
Admittedly, the V8s are for those folks who thoroughly enjoy the V6/I6 models but prefer that it have a bit more power.
That said, a V8 motor would add a similar dimension to the RL. I'll even reach further and assert that a V8 motor would represent a greater percentage of total RL sales than its MB/BMW/Infiniti/Lexus counterparts, so long as its competetively priced.
IMHO, there are probably only a handful of people who'd prefer a 302hp E500 over the 268hp E350 for just the sake of 34hp. (<--- After driving both, I personally can attest that the E350 doesnt give up much performance to the E500. )Admittedly, the V8s are for those folks who thoroughly enjoy the V6/I6 models but prefer that it have a bit more power.
That said, a V8 motor would add a similar dimension to the RL. I'll even reach further and assert that a V8 motor would represent a greater percentage of total RL sales than its MB/BMW/Infiniti/Lexus counterparts, so long as its competetively priced.
02-03-2006 | 11:49 AM
#984
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,010
Likes: 0
From: H-town
Originally Posted by youngTL
A V8 version of the RL would be sick. Especially if it was an i-VTEC V8. I can see that getting around 400hp.
which would still make acura lose out on sales towards other competitors
02-03-2006 | 01:30 PM
#985
Senior Moderator
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,905
Likes: 1,674
Originally Posted by MaximaPower
and i can see that thing getting up to the $60k range
which would still make acura lose out on sales towards other competitors
which would still make acura lose out on sales towards other competitors
Except for the Acura NSX and their lawn mowers, every Honda seems to be priced very competitively against the competition.
02-03-2006 | 03:53 PM
#987
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,411
Likes: 0
From: New Orleans
Originally Posted by F23A4
True, and the same goes with the 5-series/Infiniti M-Class/E-class. IMHO, there are probably only a handful of people who'd prefer a 302hp E500 over the 268hp E350 for just the sake of 34hp. (<--- After driving both, I personally can attest that the E350 doesnt give up much performance to the E500. )
Admittedly, the V8s are for those folks who thoroughly enjoy the V6/I6 models but prefer that it have a bit more power.
That said, a V8 motor would add a similar dimension to the RL. I'll even reach further and assert that a V8 motor would represent a greater percentage of total RL sales than its MB/BMW/Infiniti/Lexus counterparts, so long as its competetively priced.
IMHO, there are probably only a handful of people who'd prefer a 302hp E500 over the 268hp E350 for just the sake of 34hp. (<--- After driving both, I personally can attest that the E350 doesnt give up much performance to the E500. )Admittedly, the V8s are for those folks who thoroughly enjoy the V6/I6 models but prefer that it have a bit more power.
That said, a V8 motor would add a similar dimension to the RL. I'll even reach further and assert that a V8 motor would represent a greater percentage of total RL sales than its MB/BMW/Infiniti/Lexus counterparts, so long as its competetively priced.
02-03-2006 | 04:50 PM
#988
Midnight Marauder
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 744
Likes: 56
From: San Jose, CA
It may be too late to put a V-8 in, since the global midsize platform the RL is based on is probably not designed to accomodate an engine of that size. Think about it, the engine placement is transverse on the RL and all of the other cars based off of this platform. When was the last time there was a V-8 that was placed in this configuration? I'm sure they could do it, but the cost would be prohibitive. And what about balance? The RL is something like 60/40 weight distribution already. Shoehorning a V-8 into it will make this even worse. Maybe the next midsize platform will be designed with a V-8 in mind. Yes, I know that Mugen already put in a V-8 into the RL a while back, but how much did it cost? Perhaps they'll go back to the north-south configuration they had on the first generation RL and the older Legend.
02-03-2006 | 05:20 PM
#989
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,054
Likes: 0
From: Sunshine State
Originally Posted by jwong77
Think about it, the engine placement is transverse on the RL and all of the other cars based off of this platform. When was the last time there was a V-8 that was placed in this configuration?
02-03-2006 | 06:27 PM
#990
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,426
Likes: 0
From: philly
525i (E60).........................1,022
525xi (E60)........................579
530i (E60)..........................901
530xi (E60)........................929
530xi sports wagon (E60).....282
545i (E60)............................6
550i (E60).........................440
The new Lexus ES and RL look like they are in the same category and I'm not so sure the RL will come out on top as far as more features...
525xi (E60)........................579
530i (E60)..........................901
530xi (E60)........................929
530xi sports wagon (E60).....282
545i (E60)............................6
550i (E60).........................440
The new Lexus ES and RL look like they are in the same category and I'm not so sure the RL will come out on top as far as more features...
02-03-2006 | 10:24 PM
#991
Senior Moderator
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 17,905
Likes: 1,674
Originally Posted by jwong77
It may be too late to put a V-8 in, since the global midsize platform the RL is based on is probably not designed to accomodate an engine of that size. Think about it, the engine placement is transverse on the RL and all of the other cars based off of this platform. When was the last time there was a V-8 that was placed in this configuration? I'm sure they could do it, but the cost would be prohibitive. And what about balance? The RL is something like 60/40 weight distribution already. Shoehorning a V-8 into it will make this even worse. Maybe the next midsize platform will be designed with a V-8 in mind. Yes, I know that Mugen already put in a V-8 into the RL a while back, but how much did it cost? Perhaps they'll go back to the north-south configuration they had on the first generation RL and the older Legend.
Then again, Honda has already traveled a similar route with the 5th Generation Accord, which was never designed to have a V6 powertrain. However, the market compelled them to stretch the frontend 3" on V6 models to accomodate a C27A motor. Obvious caveat: Admittedly unlike the Accord's C27A motor which already existed in the Legend, there is no current V8 to pull from the Honda parts bin.
I'm sure Honda is aware of discussions like this and have been exploring their options nonetheless.
02-04-2006 | 10:45 AM
#992
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,796
Likes: 1,400
From: NC
More Options & Less Standards
Perhaps they can do what Lexus is currently doing w/ the 400RXh, reduce the price by making features optional instead of standard. For instance, the SH-AWD could be replaced w/ RWD {not FWD as the TL & TSX already have this --- & the Infiniti M & Lexus GS come w/ RWD or AWD}. This would not only reduce the price but also increase MPG which is a big deal nowadays.
02-04-2006 | 10:51 AM
#993
Suzuka Master
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,349
Likes: 3
From: Lower Nazzie, Pa
Originally Posted by TSX69
Perhaps they can do what Lexus is currently doing w/ the 400RXh, reduce the price by making features optional instead of standard. For instance, the SH-AWD could be replaced w/ RWD {not FWD as the TL & TSX already have this --- & the Infiniti M & Lexus GS come w/ RWD or AWD}. This would not only reduce the price but also increase MPG which is a big deal nowadays.
The only way to make it a RWD car is to keep the SH-AWD systme but tune it so no torque is sent to the front wheels. But then again, why even do this if you have to keep the awd system...just keep it awd.
02-04-2006 | 12:15 PM
#994
Moderator Alumnus
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 16,399
Likes: 8
From: Washington DC (NOVA)
Originally Posted by heyitsme
525i (E60).........................1,022
525xi (E60)........................579
530i (E60)..........................901
530xi (E60)........................929
530xi sports wagon (E60).....282
545i (E60)............................6
550i (E60).........................440
The new Lexus ES and RL look like they are in the same category and I'm not so sure the RL will come out on top as far as more features...
525xi (E60)........................579
530i (E60)..........................901
530xi (E60)........................929
530xi sports wagon (E60).....282
545i (E60)............................6
550i (E60).........................440
The new Lexus ES and RL look like they are in the same category and I'm not so sure the RL will come out on top as far as more features...
Are these January 2006 numbers?
02-04-2006 | 07:26 PM
#995
luvs redheads!
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,193
Likes: 1
From: back in WI
the G2 legend was a 60/40 weight ratio so it could be feasable to somehow maintain this in an RL with a V8 mounted the same way..
My guess is that they will make a coupe version that is more sporty and perhaps a 6spd manual.
I say just turbo the mofo(3.5).
My guess is that they will make a coupe version that is more sporty and perhaps a 6spd manual.
I say just turbo the mofo(3.5).
02-04-2006 | 07:59 PM
#996
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,426
Likes: 0
From: philly
Originally Posted by gavriil
Are these January 2006 numbers?
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...01/209076.html
And they equal 4159
Last edited by heyitsme; 02-04-2006 at 08:02 PM.
02-04-2006 | 09:59 PM
#998
Suzuka Master
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,349
Likes: 3
From: Lower Nazzie, Pa
Originally Posted by swift22
the G2 legend was a 60/40 weight ratio so it could be feasable to somehow maintain this in an RL with a V8 mounted the same way..
My guess is that they will make a coupe version that is more sporty and perhaps a 6spd manual.
I say just turbo the mofo(3.5).
My guess is that they will make a coupe version that is more sporty and perhaps a 6spd manual.
I say just turbo the mofo(3.5).
But what I'm personally hoping for...that Honda figures out a way to make the first platform that can handle both fwd AND rwd applications, so they still save costs by keeping all their fwd models on this platform, but also being able to make a rwd car for better weight distribution and v8 mounting.
this would make automotive history in the way the nsx did when it was created.
02-05-2006 | 04:28 AM
#999
My M45 loves to eat rice
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,327
Likes: 0
From: Brooklyn, NY
Originally Posted by TSX69
Got this info from Club Lexus --- I knew sales were slow but I had no idea it was last in the market:
5 = 4,681
E = 2,465
GS = 1,978
M = 1,892
STS =
A6 = 1,617
RL = 773
5 = 4,681
E = 2,465
GS = 1,978
M = 1,892
STS =
A6 = 1,617
RL = 773
With that being said, I was offered a pretty good lease deal on an RL along with the dealership taking my TL-S off lease three months early, and I'm still not going with the RL. It just doesn't offer enough over the TL to justify its price tag. There's a very good chance I'll be stepping into an M45 Sport very soon, just because it has a great mix of luxury, interior accessories, good looks, and a very solid V8. I just consider it a far better car over the RL, GS (which I still find boring), and even the E-Class. It's only a matter of time before people realize how good this car really is compared to the 5-Series. And this is coming from someone who is not necessarily a fan of Infiniti.
02-20-2006 | 05:20 PM
#1000
Pinky all stinky
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 20,665
Likes: 191
Acura dealers expect cheaper RL
Kathy Jackson
Automotive News / February 20, 2006 - 6:00 am
ORLANDO, Fla. -- When Acura redesigned its flagship RL in 2004, it loaded on the goodies: all-wheel drive, navigation system, 10-speaker stereo and radar that warns drivers of an impending crash.
It has a price tag to match: $49,915 with shipping, about $6,000 more than the previous-generation RL.
Oops.
Now Acura has concluded that its slow-selling flagship needs help.
The division is considering a lower-content version of the car, some dealers say. Sales chief Dick Colliver told Automotive News that the RL's content will change next year but gave no details. He acknowledged that the RL "hasn't performed to expectations."
The RL lacks a V-8 engine, an amenity expected by many luxury buyers.
"It's at a price point in foreign territory for us," Mike McGrath, chairman of the Acura dealer council, said at the National Automobile Dealers Association convention here. "Maybe Acura doesn't have the brand image" to sell a vehicle at that price.
McGrath said the dealer council has recommended a model with less content. "It only comes one way: loaded," he said. "We need something in the low to mid-40s."
The redesigned RL was introduced in October 2004. In 2005 it substantially outsold the previous-generation model. But sales have slipped. In the four months ending January 31, Acura sold 4,899 RLs, down 25.6 percent year-over-year.
Kathy Jackson
Automotive News / February 20, 2006 - 6:00 am
ORLANDO, Fla. -- When Acura redesigned its flagship RL in 2004, it loaded on the goodies: all-wheel drive, navigation system, 10-speaker stereo and radar that warns drivers of an impending crash.
It has a price tag to match: $49,915 with shipping, about $6,000 more than the previous-generation RL.
Oops.
Now Acura has concluded that its slow-selling flagship needs help.
The division is considering a lower-content version of the car, some dealers say. Sales chief Dick Colliver told Automotive News that the RL's content will change next year but gave no details. He acknowledged that the RL "hasn't performed to expectations."
The RL lacks a V-8 engine, an amenity expected by many luxury buyers.
"It's at a price point in foreign territory for us," Mike McGrath, chairman of the Acura dealer council, said at the National Automobile Dealers Association convention here. "Maybe Acura doesn't have the brand image" to sell a vehicle at that price.
McGrath said the dealer council has recommended a model with less content. "It only comes one way: loaded," he said. "We need something in the low to mid-40s."
The redesigned RL was introduced in October 2004. In 2005 it substantially outsold the previous-generation model. But sales have slipped. In the four months ending January 31, Acura sold 4,899 RLs, down 25.6 percent year-over-year.
Most likely SH-AWD becomes optional.
But Acura was adamant that 270hp was the limit for FWD with the TL, so I wonder if they'll also detune the engine. So with less weight from the loss of SH-AWD, but less hp, it might not be any faster than an SH-AWD equipped RL.