d-rock

acura will sell the "nsx replacement" at a lost just like they did with the original nsx. But it will be used for marketing to boost acuras brand and image. If it can perform better than ferrari f430 or lambo gallardo for less money it will do well.

mrdeeno

I still think a proper RWD platform and V8 would make more sense to boost the brand image and make money at the same time. Infiniti and Lexus don't seem to have a problem boosting image without a money losing "exotic".

swift22

the LF-A i dont believe has a V8 the last time i checked. could be wrong..

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Infiniti's image wasn't that good before even though it has Q45 for so long, which is RWD and V8. In fact, come to think about it, Infiniti has been very similar to Lexus. LS vs Q; GS vs M; ES vs I; IS vs G; and a few other SUVs too. The only real difference is that Infiniti had a G20 before. So yea, while V8 and RWD are part of the equation, they don't always guarantee good image. And then take a look at Porsche, may be this is a little extreme, but it didn't need to have a V8 (at least I don't recall there's one, except the Cayenne) to boost its image, and I'm sure we all agree Porsche's image is much better than Lexus and Infiniti.

biker

+1

GreenMonster

I don't know if this "upscaling" with acura products is going to work... I don't think many people are ready to pend that kind of money on an Acura yet... They didn't sell many $90K NSX's, so unless they come out with a car that can crush Porsche 911's and GTRs, there's going to be a limited pool of buyers.

fsttyms1

That and dont drag out the aging body for 10+ years with little to no change on the car.

mrdeeno

I agree, a V8 and RWD doesn't guarantee a good image, but anecdotal evidence show it is much easier to improve ones brand image with a V8 and RWD than it is with only V6 and FWD. And anecdotal evidence also show that having an "exotic" doesn't boost image as well as Acura would like to think. A V8 and RWD won't magically make Acura a "tier 1 brand", but it would be a MAJOR step in that direction.

As for Porsche, you can't compare a niche brand that focuses on its almost pure performance market and long heritage to a Acura, Infiniti, or Lexus with non-niche, mass market appeal, not to mention a relatively short history.

mrdeeno

I think even with all the surveys and customer response and opinions and everything that Honda hears about the image of Acura, there is still a disconnect between what the Honda insiders perceive of Acura and what the general public and enthusiasts perceive of Acura. I feel that the insiders perceive the Acura brand as being higher than what most people would think, almost "fanboish" in nature, which is why they think they can pull these arguably dumb-ass moves and think it will succeed.

They should have come out with a $55-60k hard-core performance-focused car first, a la M3, IS-F, or whatever, and gauge success from that first. If successful, that would at least put into people's minds that Acura is serious about competing on a performance field. Then once that image sets in, it may be easier for people to accept a $70-100k "exotic". Even Audi can do it with the S4 on a FWD platform, so as much as most would prefer RWD, FWD isn't really stopping Acura from doing this.

But just dropping a $100k+ car onto people's laps when you're perceived as the "poor man's" luxury brand? Good luck with that!

SpicyMikey

^^^
Yea, what he said...

biker

The only caveat I would put onto ^^^ is that perhaps this exotic's platform and and some parts will be whored out, a la FM for Infiniti, to other models. In that case maybe the exotic route might make sense - tho again I would think folks would get more out of the brand if they started such a trend from the bottom up instead from the top down.

OTOH, whoring out parts of an exotic to lesser models might not go over very well either.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yea mrdeeno, I was just giving an example as when RWD and V8 might not work. But I agree, that generally would work. And yea, I'd love to see something above the Type S!! May be Type RS?

mrdeeno

I think Acura should drop this "type-S" crap, because it's watered down the "type-" name equity from what it should have been when they were designing 'type-R' models.

They should have reserved the 'type-R' designation for serious performance models, like when they used it for the integra type-R, and could have used it for more upmarket models to compete a la M or AMG. But instead, they started giving lukewarm performance models (no offense to CL-S, TL-S, and RSX-S owners) the 'type-' designation, which should have been just designated "sport" (like MDX sport or MDX tech), because basically that's all these "type-S" models are, they are just the sport trim of those models.

And when I say "type-R", this is not to be confused with "R-type"...

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I see your point. Type S, however, is indeed a "middle step" between the normal models and type r. What I mean is, they are definitely an improvement over the normal models in terms of power, handling, and most of the time features. Type R on the other hand, is simply hardcore. Sport IMO doesn't mean adding power. I mean BMW M-sport package adds no power, G35S (G35 Sport) adds no power, etc. I think Acura has A-spec for that type of upgrade. To sum it up, I think "Type S" might be a bit too much, but "Sport" is not enough to justify the upgrades.

mrdeeno

The use of "type-S" or whatever is a small issue and I don't think it affects the cars one way or another, but they still could have done a power increase option more nonchalantly, like BMW, Audi, Lexus, or any other brands that offer power steps, if they wanted to differentiate it from a sport trim. But even then, "A-spec" is corny sounding itself.

To me, it just seems they were trying to capitalize on the "type-R" image by naming these models, and it would have been better use to reserve any "type-" designation to really special or exclusive models. Basically, the naming issue is a small detail, but in the luxury game, attention to small details is key.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Perhaps may be they should call those the R-line, R-Sport, or something like that, similar to S-line of Audi, or M-Sport from BMW.

mrdeeno

Whatever they should use, I think it's too late at this point, although it seems they have no qualms with changing naming schemes at a drop of a hat whenever they feel like it (legend to RL, Integra to RSX, 3.2TL to TL, 3.2CL to , etc. ).

Edward'TLS

Honda/Acura can call it anything they like, but it is nothing compared to the sickening horsepower and suspension tuning that come with the Audi S/RS, BMW M, and MB AMG models.

Costco

I tend to agree.... manufacturers are starting to milk out their "special" designations to entice buyers. Like how GM pretty much made everything available as an SS.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

True, same can be said for Lexus and Infiniti...well until recently..with the debut of IS-F.

mrdeeno

to me, there is a difference between trim levels and option "packages" (even if they are factory installed "packages").

Trim level:
3-series trims - 328i, 335i, M3
Civic trims - EX, LX, Si
IS trims - IS250, IS350
TL trims - TL, TL type-S

Packages:
TL packages - A-spec
G packages - Sport
MDX packages - Tech, Sport
3-series packages - Uh, too lazy to search, but you get the idea.

And this is why I think it's "corny" or "milking" when Acura uses "type-S" to designate a trim level instead of doing it in a nonchalant way. They did this before when they had 3.0CL and 2.3CL trims, or Legend base, L, or LS. When they introduced the Integra "type-R", they were on the right track because the Integra had GS, LS, RS, GS-R, and the hard-core "type-R" trims. But when they did away with those trim designations and went to "type-" designations, to me it felt like they were 1) milking the "type-R" designation and 2) watering down the milk because these models weren't anywhere close to being a "R", which is why they made the "type-S" instead.

Further, the reason acura when from names to alphanumerics was to get people AWAY from the name of the car and focus on the brand. But going away from the alphanumeric trim levels, like GS, LS, RS, etc. and instead going to "Type-S" or whatever contradicts this, because now people are back to focusing on the car. When I had my CL-S, people at work who know a little about cars actually asked, "Is that your type-S?" I have also heard this many more times since getting rid of my "type-S".

now that I think about it, and I think about what Costco said about GM, there's now another similarity between Acura and GM. I see similarities between the new Acura corporate grille and Saturns grilles, the previous gen Accord was very "Saturn"/GM-ish (especially the tail lights), the next NSX design is supposedly Corvette inspired, GM pushed "FWD luxury" with its Cadillac line back in the day, hell even the Saturn Vue was using the MDX engine for awhile. And Acura seems to have rested on their laurels for way too long and not take risks when they were up, similar to GM back in the day.

Is Honda (or more accurately, Acura) becoming the "old" GM?

JediMindTricks

thank you! i was afraid i was the only one that thought so.

biker

The big diff is that until very recently Acura (and Honda still) have had record sales. You don't take risks when you're doing that well. Sure, to some enthusiasts, the lineup might be bland and boring but if it sells why change the lineup. GM not only had a bland/boring lineup they had crappy products as well. They were not having record numbers and they were just making up the loses of their car lineup from the profits of SUV/trucks. It will be interesting to see the sales numbers in the fall when the sedan lineup will be new (RL MMC is close enough to new).

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I see your point with the type-s thing.

But I'm not too sure about the Acura becomes more GM-ish, if anything I'd think Toyota is more similar to GM. Similarities between the grilles, I guess that's subjective. As for the next NSX design, I believe C5 Vette was inspired by the original NSX. So I'd say the next NSX design is inspired by the first NSX instead. I believe Acura is now pushing "AWD luxury" instead. But you can say, they WERE pushing "FWD luxury" before. Toyota used to have a Toyota Cavalier before. Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibe are essentially the same car. You can actually see the relationship between GM and Toyota is very close too. Not to mention both are pretty much the largest car companies. Both have many, many platforms and cars.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Exactly, and referring back to my post with the GM vs Toyota comment, they might seem to be very close, but Toyota is making profit and GM is not.

mrdeeno

I'm not comparing the current Acura to the current GM. I'm comparing the current Acura to the "old" GM before their downfall. They were successful, but then decided to go complacent and that's why they started putting out bland/boring crappy products...except for the "crappy" part, this pretty much sums up the current state of affairs at Honda/Acura.

Edward'TLS

The problem with Honda/Acura right now is that the factories are running at 100% capacity churning out cheap vehicles. If only Acura can break the $50K barrier will Honda enjoy another big jump in gross profits.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Same can be said about Toyota too. I don't think there's any Toyota right now that's more exciting than the respective Honda model...Camry Vs Accord, Corolla vs Civic, Yaris vs Fit, I believe all these Hondas are more exciting than the Toyotas. As for the SUV's, I'd say, they are about the same. May be the Rav4 with the V6 is more powerful than the CRV, but I don't necessary call more power = more fun. For Lexus vs Acura, IS is pretty much a very boring car even though it's a RWD compared to the TL. ES? Even more boring. The GS isn't much better either as it's still tuned for comfort, or what I'd call, "Lexus'ness." At most, I'd call it a tie against the RL.

MaximaPower

i thought acura was aiming for maybach or aston.....now corvette? they need to make up their mind


i know, how bout come up with something original?
if their design team is doing that bad that they have to take styling from other makes, then they need to hire a new design team

also, i think they need to work on their current lineup now...make themselves tier1 then introduce a $180k acura
isn't their most expensive car now the RL at about $45k?

mrdeeno

This is Acura we're talking about...they ahve to do everything back asswards.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Again, it's the original NSX that inspired the C5 Vette, so, if the next NSX looks similar to the Vette, I wouldn't be surprised, it's just being similar to the original NSX.

phile

Someone posted a pic of a Corvette and an NSX side by side a while ago, they actually don't look alike. The Corvette looked almost 2x as large as the NSX to boot.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

To each of his own.

Costco

The NSX inspired the C5 Corvette? wtf?

Have we forgotten the C4 Corvette, the Corvette that came before the C5, which was first made in 1984? Looks a lot like a C5, just more angular. I have a hunch here, but I THINK that the C5's inspiration was the C4.

They both look great, but I see very few similarities, besides flip-up lights and similar roofline. The wedge shape and flip-up lights has been a staple of the Corvette since the C3, starting in 1968 or so.

If anything, I think the NSX was inspired by the C4 Corvette... with the targa top, the flip-up lights, the wedge shape and all. Not that I truly think that, but just sayin... IF anything.

mrdeeno

Inspired by the C4 vette or not, no self respecting, mullet wearing redneck would be caught in an NSX. And I think the C4 vettes were the most rednecked generation...for some reason every redneck and their inbred sister was able to afford one.

biker

That's a bit harsh - starting to sound like Obama.

It doesn't matter where the inspiration came from - does the car look good? That should be the issue.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

^ yup!

TSX69

SpyShots: 2011 Acura NSX



Honda’s NSX replacement has had several false starts, with the company scrapping one of its original designs – the Acura Advanced Sports Car Concept - after the public’s largely negative response to the 2007 Detroit show car. Designers were sent back to the drawing board and Honda was forced to abandon its original plans to show the car at the following Tokyo Motor Show.

Despite the drawbacks, engineers were able to continue testing the new mechanicals for the car by using a modified S2000 body and we saw the first test-mules running laps at the Nurburgring by the middle of last year. The latest round of spy shots suggest Honda has come up with a final design for the car, as seen by this latest prototype once again spotted at the Nurburgring in Germany.

Speaking with MotorAuthority back in April, Acura spokesman Mike Spencer confirmed several details of the upcoming NSX replacement. The car will definitely be powered by a V10 engine, and it will be equipped with the company’s SH-AWD system. The lack of intakes at the rear of the car also confirms the NSX replacement will feature a front-engine configuration, as opposed to the mid-engine layout of the former.

There has been some discussion of a possible four-wheel steering system (4WS) for the NSX replacement, but Spencer suggested the SH-AWD system would achieve most of the benefits of 4WS without the added complexity.

biker

It might be a great car but it just doesn't scream $200K exotic to me. I'm not sure that removing the camo would fix that.

SpicyMikey

Looking through all the camo, this car (whatever it is) looks a lot like this rendering that's been going around.



Looks like a coupe version of this very hot looking sedan. I think it has a very good stance and basic proportions. Not sure if it looks like an exotic sports car and/or an NSX replacement, but whatever it is, it looks good.