Sigh... I wrote a reply but just couldn't pull myself to post it. Let's just agree to disagree.

So how about that non-existent super car?

 

You may not call it the ultimate driving machine but they call it that and many DO consider it the benchmark when comparing. They have the brand name recognition and no one is questioning their slogans.

Why are so many concerned with the comparing of with the germans?? Then WHO are you going to compare them (Acura) to??? HONDA???? Acura likes to compare themselves to the Germans so dont you think they should be a little better at their game to do so? All they seem to do or be concerned with doing is following. It doesnt seem as though they have the desire or want to try to lead!

And why should i go buy German? Maybe i want Acura to actually figure themselves out and produce something that they are capable of. Maybe i want the Brand i like to actually be what they try to compare themselves to. You may be ok with them settling but many arent. And i wouldnt call the 2 models doing well( MDX and a new model TLX) as sales are good and improving. The TLX could be better, the RLX is and has been a joke, the ILX is still an over priced civic with out a true direction and the RDX is just ok.

 

And that has what to do with anything? It sure as hell wasnt because Cadillac decided to improve themselves during that time. It wasnt because Cadillac had a direction and stuck with it!

 

Keep it coming fsttyms!

 

I'm questioning their slogan. fact is, there are more ultimate driving machines than what bmw produces.

acura has never been on equal footing with bmw or benz. as I pointed out, when acura was producing the legend, bmw had rwd and v12 engines. maybe you and acura are just moving in different directions? maybe acura isn't really what you want?

so why should you go buy german? because they offer the things you seem to want in a car. if I want pizza I'm not going to go to chick-fil-a and complain about the fact that they don't sell pizza.

rdx is selling really well actually, "One of the hottest players in a hot luxury SUV segment, the Acura RDX set an all-time annual sales record, climbing 13.7 percent on sales of 51,026 vehicles."

Acura Sales 2015 | Acura Connected

we just bought a '16 rdx for my wife. it's a great small suv. we test drove lexus, infiniti, honda, kia, mazda. rdx was best all around in my opinion. we didn't decide on the rdx as a substitute for a bimmer or benz, but on it's own merit.

 

Hey some more news on the NSX as I was browsing around the inter webs.

There is at least 1 produced, drive-able by public example roaming around. #001 will be sold via Barett Jackson for charity/auction on Jan 29, 2016 at approx 7:30pm

Barette Jackson 2016: 2017 ACURA NSX VIN #001




So if you have the money to bid against the world's richest collectors...head to Scottsdale next week. Had I won the powerball I would definitely be booking a flight there and snatching this up!!!

Anyone want to guess final auction price? 300k? 500k? 1mil?

And found this other gem, if NSX #001 is too much out of budget...acura is also auctioning off a NSX hood signed by A/B list celebs as well here on ebay: Bid on the All-New 2017 Acura NSX Hood Signed by Festival Celebrities!

2017 Acura NSX: Hood Signed By Celebs Being Auctioned

 

How did the celebrities sign a hologram...?

 

Tupac helped them out.

 

Please, name one- and not a super car. Every time a car company comes out with an "M3 competitor", the M3 always wins.

Ah, it all makes sense now! you dumped 40k on a subpar SUV and now you feel inclined to justify your purchase. No biggie. While it was the greatest in the world for you and your wife, many others would disagree.

 

I think he said before that he wasn't specifically talking about the M cars, he was talking about the bread and butter models, like the 320i, 328i, or even the 335i.

There's no need for that really (calling someone's new car "subpar"). Yes it's the internet but come on man, you are more mature then that! Just congratulate for his purchase and move on.

There was a comment that people only buy Acura's because they can't afford something more expensive. His response was to clarify that. He only indicated that the RDX is exactly what his family needs and he made that pretty clear when he said "in my opinion." It's not like he's claiming all other SUVs are crap.

 

Um, the 335 is no slouch either. Neither is the 328.

And I've been calling the RDX, as well as all other Acura offerings these days, sub par. And while he may be loving it, as I've stated, MANY don't feel the same. Many on AZ are disappointed with Acura. Hell, even current RDX owners complain about the RDX. They even come up with lists of why the car sucks.

But you know... It's that kind of thrill. Even though NONE of Acura's offerings are thrilling in any way, shape or form. At least BMW has some ultimate driving machines.

But again, how about that non-existent super car?

 

Speaking of 2Pac...his lyrics from "Changes" and the particular phrase of "I see no changes" is very appropriate...CUZ, NSX IS STILL NOT OUT YET!

 

Alright obviously we can see emotions can run high with regards to our feelings about the NSX (at least its starting to come out...and has been driven in the real world now...) and of course opinion about Acura and its lost mojo since the 90s/early 00s.

So reading some good posts above regarding why we Acura enthusiasts have been feeling this way...I though well instead of just whining around this forum (which I'm not sure if Acura reads, as Chevy does with the CorvetteForum)....why not make/compile a Dear Acura letter from us enthusiasts and email/fax/mail it to them.

I volunteer to compile a email/letter (I do have fax access from work, or just email probably easier) and incorporate some of the posts above by Taco/fsttyms1/etc. with their permission into a email and send it off via Acura customer relations: Help | Client Relations | Acura.com

And see what they have to answer?

I may just start a new thread dedicated to this topic....since this topic about Acura has been popping up in other threads as well...

 

2015 BMW M3 vs. 2016 Cadillac ATS-V Sedan vs. 2015 Mercedes-AMG C63 S Comparison - Motor Trend

guess who gets third place? *cough*

lol, I'm totally happy with the purchase otherwise we would have bought something else. we didn't spend 40k either. of course the rdx isn't for everyone, which is why it's great that there is variety in the marketplace instead of a bunch of carbon copies. fact is, the rdx sells really well for acura.

 

No. It's been established the 335i is horridly slow.

 

I just got an Acura magazine - Expressions (In Canada) and the entire magazine is dedicated to the NSX. It will be an interesting read for sure...Despite all the snags and so on, I have to admit it is a petty sexy car.

 

I think the looks is not the debate here. It's Acura being still cagey about the specs of the car...and those specs had to be through initial test drives by journalists (WTF?)...




The other source of discussion is the pricepoint. While it certainly places the car in the elite market, it enters a fray that is owned by some kingpins like McLaren and Porsche. Is Honda/Acura doing their homework and confident enough to think their price will attract the buyers they need...? Sure, this car was never meant to sell in high volumes...but, if at that price and I could only buy ONE, would I give Honda my money to buy the NSX over a McLaren...?

Something to ponder. That's all.

 

^^ I agree 150% and never wanted to take away from all the valid statements made by many of you. I was saying the same to a friend of mine on the weekend over coffee...Acura is pricing itself out of the market.

All the problems they had and the change they had to make on the spot has caused extra costs which is now being passed on to the consumers. This car needed to be a good 30k less to make people willing to consider it. If I have 170k to put on a car (in Canada), at that price point, why not get a Ferrari or something really exotic over the Acura. It is even worst for places where the car is sold as a Honda.

If they had priced the NSX closer to 130k in Canada, then people could look at the NSX and say you know, at this price point, it might be worth getting one of these and then try and get more on the road to raise the awareness of the brand. Regardless, they are losing money on this NSX so why not make it affordable and make the money on a few more units instead.

 

Indeed, I can vouch for that...

 

My bad, I should've been more clear. When it comes to straight line speed, the 328i and 335i have been the best in class for a while. No question about that. They also pull respectable objective numbers.

But if you recall, BMW's were known for their handling, driving fun, and driving involvement. For their latest bread and butter cars, like 328i, 335i, 535i, 550i, the F10's and F30's, they no longer excel in those areas.

Here's a 335i M Sport (sportiest non-M 3 series) vs ATS and IS350 F Sport:
Habemus Papem! 2013 BMW 335i M Sport vs. 2013 Cadillac ATS 3.6, 2014 Lexus IS350 F Sport ? Comparison Test ? Car and Driver

Here is the quick summary:

Lows:
Noisy and busy suspension, lifeless electrically assisted steering.

Verdict:
Still good at everything, but no longer the best at much.

That doesn't sound like much praise to me...for a car that's supposed to be the "Ultimate Driving Machine," don't you agree?

How about the 550i?
2011 BMW 550i ? Instrumented Test ? Car and Driver

Lows:
A driving experience nowhere near as rich as the owner needs to be.

"Between the dull steering and the easy-as-pie computerized handling, the 550i offers a fast journey but a driving experience that lacks the drama, involvement, and excitement we expect from BMW. "

Pretty harsh words....and what's even worse?

"Coming from BMW, this is a huge disappointment, and the steering of the 550i can’t hold a candle to the fine feel provided by the tiller in the Audi A6."

That's quite significant, as Audi were known for having good handling, but lacks driving involvement.

You know, everyone can come out with a list of why such and such car sucks. It's really a matter of preferences.

In this very case, you probably now assume that I think the 5 series or 3 series suck. Actually, I don't. When it comes to driving involvement, they suck. But they are still very decent luxury sedans that combine power, comfort, and performance well. It's just that, nowadays, the "ultimate driving machines" slogan don't really fit these Bimmers anymore, just like how "it's that kind of thrill" doesn't really fit Acura's.

 

Agreed, but you have to remove the M cars to make your statement true. Whereas, with Acura, you don't really have to remove anything to make your statement true (for the time being since the NSX isn't shipping yet)

 

They read the forums. They know whats going on. I have 3 of some of their email addresses from when i was invited to their first Acura event. It wont matter if one were to email them or send letters. They seem set on their ways and with their focus groups of skool children, def, and blind people. FInd a way onto/into one of the focus groups and you could make a bigger difference.

 

Oh for sure lol. Not trying to defend Acura or something.

I was only focusing on BMW and its slogan. Specifically, it's just that not long ago, the "ultimate driving machine" slogan would apply to all vehicles, including the basic 3 series. I had the chance to drive a 1995 E36 318i. It's slow as hell, but it's a proper BMW with front-engined, rear-wheel drive car with good steering feedback.

 

have a look at the m3, ats-v & c63 s motor trend comparison I posted a few posts back. m3 ranks third.

 

Haha yea I know. But people here will say that Motor Trend tends to favor American brands:

2016: Camaro
2014: CTS
2013: Tesla Model S
2011 Chevy Volt
2010: Fusion

On the contrary, I focused on Car and Driver because people often say they like BMW's and Honda's more than anything else. So if even Car and Driver thinks they are no longer driver's cars, then perhaps there's something to that claim.

 

automobile said the ats-v is more track worthy than m3/m4...personally I think both cars are awesome but not "ultimate."

Strengths and Weaknesses: 2016 Cadillac ATS-V vs. BMW M3/M4

 

Frankly, I find it rather informative that you can't defend Acura on the brand's own merits. You have to s**t on another brand as much as possible to try to raise the perception of Acura as a competitive brand; in this case, BMW.

Is BMW's current model line a step back in terms of the features that made them desirable to much of the car-enthusiast world? Arguably, yes, in many ways that may very well be the case. Personally, I don't much care for the F30.

That being said, the 3-series (for example) has been the benchmark for sport sedan performance and styling for nearly two decades. Can Acura say that about any of its models? Ever? No.

Is "Ultimate Driving Machine" a marketing tagline? Of course. But it's one that, at various times in its use, has had a lot to back it up. Other than the 1G NSX (and the pending 2G NSX), has Acura ever had a lineup of cars that could back up the "It's that Kind of Thrill" marketing tagline? Ever? No. That's why it's such a joke. All of us here have been, at some time or another, enthusiasts about the Acura brand and we know that tagline is nonsense. It's just another "Hey, me too!" effort from a brand whose leadership hasn't been able to figure out how to execute a decent strategy in a decade.

When the Acura apologists can defend the brand based solely on its merits, I'll take notice again. Until then, all this bagging on other brands is just desperation motivated by blind brand loyalty.

 

And frankly, let's just all agree that Acura has not tried to compete with BMW for a few years now...it's IMO, quite blatantly obvious. Their market now is Buick and Lincoln.

 

I think the s2000 deserves to be on that list, even thought it wore a Honda badge. The s2000 was a thrilling car, as was the Integra Type R, and the lower GS-R. I'd also throw the CSX-S and TL-S in there too, along with the CL-S. For their time, they were pretty damn thrilling. The best? No. Thrilling? For sure.

However, I 156% agree with everything else you stated

 

From the new Acura chief's comments it appears this way. He likened past Acura car enthusiasts to people who have not grown up yet...and they are now going to make more 'adult' cars.

So yes looks like the way of the Buick/Lincoln indeed.....we can only hope for a revival like Cadillac...which GM has done amazing job of revitalizing in the past few years.

But I guess until then it's so long......

 

Well if that isn't the ultimate fall from grace...

 

You're right about the Type-R, for example. But, throughout most of the history of the brand, there have only been one-off models (including the NSX) that really elicited that kind of excitement; not multiple models across a lineup. The notable exception to this observation, of course, is the early period of the company. Acura shook up the industry when it had the the Legend, the Integra, and the NSX, all at the same time. Since then? Not so much.

 

lol relax dude. This all goes back to someone talking about Acura's "it's that kind of thrill" slogan, saying how that line doesn't reflect the actual product. No one is defending that, because it's true. I believe skd2k1 also agreed too (post #6630). He proceeded to say that marketing is just marketing, just like how BMW is using the slogan of "The Ultimate Driving Machine," which doesn't quite apply nowadays.

It's not about shxting on another brand to raise Acura's perception. That cannot be done unless Acura up their game big time. Do you seriously think I have the power to change your perception of Acura just by saying a few things? Probably not, right? Why would I waste my time on that?

It has nothing to do with how the 3-series is the benchmark for 2 decades. Everyone knows that, even for non car enthusiasts. But that's not the point. Again, the point is, Skd2k1 and I feel that the "ultimate driving machine" tag line doesn't quite describe the current crop of BMW models. There's nothing wrong with that, we know it's marketing. Just like the "it's that kind of thrill" slogan, it's all marketing.

Again, nothing to do with defending any brand. Just stating the facts (i.e. reviews, comparison test results).

As Yumcha stated, Acura is not at the same level of BMW. Not sure why someone would think otherwise. It's been Honda+ for many, many years.

 

That's kind of what tribe and yumcha and I have been saying all along

Anyway, we should just start a thread for bitching about, or loving Acura. The last two pages do not belong here (yup, guilty as charged). I guess there's been nothing new about the NSX, so everyone resorts to the original topic of hating Acura

By the way, isn't it supposed to be launched like next week, finally? Or has it been delayed again, so that Acura can make it even better for the 26th time?

 

[sigh] I'm plenty relaxed. My response wasn't only to the posts I quoted; it's the body of work. This discussion nearly always takes this same turn. People criticize Acura. Apologists resort to criticizing other brands in order to legitimize Acura's decisions, etc. Nonetheless, your final conclusion is basically in line with mine. You just took numerous posts "lol'ing" and high-fiving with skd about BMW's fall from the top of the pack to get there.

 

End of day: Acura/Honda is NOT the Acura/Honda many of us grew up with and admired...

It's THEIR prerogative and right to direct the brand to whatever direction they want. But...WE...don't have to like it. And well, as with any discussion, we are within our rights to comment and sadly, snark about it...

 

...and "vote" with our checkbook.

 

Correct. FWIW, this is the reality: My sea cucumber will be replaced in another 2-3 years, from what I'm reading and hearing from Acura/Honda, there is NOTHING I want in my pricepoint that the competition does not have which is more compelling.

I WANT and wish there were...but, right now...nothing. Not purposely hating because as I said previously, I WANT Honda to blow my mind. It's sorta like my thing for Sony...I have a bias for them...and I want them to blow my mind in PCs...but, guess what? They went belly-up and gave up the NA market. So, until they return with something that truly wows me...I have no reason to buy anything from them? Makes sense, right?

It's not hating...it's just the reality of where things are at for some of us and a particular brand.

 

soo.... vaporcar?

 

What? There's a release date?




Oh right. Nothing.