SSFTSX

becasue every thing else Honda makes on Accord and Fit platform. with very limited engine and variation. Do you know how many diesel engines VW group make?
Honda can concentrate on one car and factories located in limited geographical area to maintain quality. read the link that i provided about maintaining quality control.

TacoBello

Please explain what you mean by "real bhp". I don't get it. What does that mean?

TacoBello

yup, and even though Honda uses the Accord and Fit platform for everything, their QC has been in the toilet these last several years. What's your next argument?

oonowindoo

CEL is due to the superior Honda bhp that Honda's own engine can't even handle.

oonowindoo

I guess you missed his other post. It is a well known fact that Honda's bhp is superior than all others, especially BMW's.

I think the calculation was something like 1 honda bhp = 1.5 to 2 bhp from BMW.

Conclusion: Honda's bhp is the real bhp, others are all wannabe bhp.

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

pretty hard to tell what you guys are even arguing about anymore.

TacoBello

Oh I definitely remember that one. I just don't understand how he determined that Honda bhp is what it is, and how Honda bhp is so much greater.

Every time I ask him to provide some greater detail, he moves on to the next argument without providing an ounce of clarity or reasoning.

oonowindoo

The same way he determined that
Honda has superior aero,
ground clearance,
mirror design,
AC vents location,
rear windshield wiper,
and if you put upgraded tires on a RLX, it will be faster than M5
20% more power = 20% faster
Accord is as fast as 335/340
The Imaginary Si with turbo engine
NSX is superior because it is Carbon fiber reinforced, instead of Carbon fiber

TacoBello

I was thinking about this earlier... how is the new NSX stiffer than 100% CF body cars? Answer: It's not. However, other manufacturers don't feel the need to brag about it.

TacoBello

This made me think of the ultra superior CR-Z. It has superior vent locations for the passenger. I hope they like getting their eyeballs dried out anytime the vents are blowing

oonowindoo

I can answer that for SSFTSX

How is it stiffer? because the aluminum Honda uses is superior than the aluminum that other don't want to use.

heard it is from Mars.

00TL-P3.2

It's that kind of Martian thrill?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

FWIW, SSFTX or whatever, argued that you couldnt have the middle vents below the screen.
in his skewed mind, the vents are always ONTOP of the screen

TacoBello

SSFTSX: it's that kind of special.

fsttyms1

Everything. Complete CF frames, better aero, better engines, better weight to power, (ie more power and less weight than the NSX). Seriously, quit trying to convince others that Honda HP is special and no one else can make special honda HP. HP is HP. PERIOD. How its utilized, where it makes it, how effectively it gets put to the ground are the ONLY variables.

What exactly am i looking at? How it accelerates??? There is nothing to compare it to in the vid, Put the speedo in MPH and the acceleration rate will look far slower, and i see that that special honda HP hits the aerodynamic brick wall at 276, and i also see a CEL which could also mean its not stock.

Try again with some more pictures to show how fast it is please.

TacoBello

Pow! Right in the kisser!

TacoBello

I'm willing to bet the turbo system was fucked with somehow in the civic and it's throwing an emissions related CEL, or something (moar Powah!).

TacoBello

And if Honda engineers were so fucking great, other manufacturers, like BMW, Audi, MB, Lexus would be paying big bucks and scooping them up like crazy for two reasons:

1. Because only Honda knows how to make money and the other companies are stupid and waste tons of money all the time and they're never profitable, and,

2. The companies would now have unmatchable Honda performance in all of their cars and they would dominate the world several times over. Each.

Somehow, I don't think that's happening. At all. Anywhere.


Here, take a seat on the passenger side of this sweet CR-Z:


The superior designed and aimed air vents will dry the tears in your eyes in no time.

fsttyms1

I see a timeless and elegant dash that all others will emulate someday.

nist7

Alright silliness aside I'm a bit surprised about lot of the critical opinions on the NSX.
Is it really that much 'worse' for the money?

Competitors include: GTR, 991 Turbo, R8. Roughly similar HP with these guys and very similar 0-60. Of course handling and weight will be differentiators. NSX has the electric motors and magnetic suspension. Price wise GTR is cheaper where as comprable 911 and R8 will be similar in price, option-depending.

The DD/racetrack drive settings are very NSX-like...as it truly allows it to be daily driven, and with Honda reliability it's likely cheaper/easier to maintain and won't catch fire or truly own your wallet like a Porsche/Audi car. Of course if you can afford a 150k car....may not care much about cost. Though it may minimize downtime of time spent at dealer getting fixed and more time on the road.

I thought that with the racetrack setting it does away with all the understeer? Though the steering feel may be underwhelming from reviews.

Biggest downside is the high weight at a thick 3800lbs like the GTR. We'll need to wait to see some lap times and more head to head reviews to see....

Honestly don't see how it's such a bad car. HP and speed wise it's right within competitor range (570hp, 3 sec to 60mph). Its got gobs of tech like many supercars now, and has daily mode vs track mode. The new electric motor assist seems like a differentiatior...so it may tear up tracks.

One thing is for sure that they did NOT under-power the NSX this time around.

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

^very low psi and suspension/electronics are highly customizable which leaves a lot of room for future improvement. imagine if the track mode is refined and boost is raised to 20 psi.

if we're being honest, we can find criticisms of any of the other cars being compared here.

nist7

Ah good point. The turbo engine means definite room for more power...hopefully the motor/internals are strong to handle a bit more psi! But yeah the magnetic suspension and tech definitely is a big plus over the other cars.

Good point as well. Part of it is the long long wait and then there seems to be not one thing that really stands out...but taken as a whole driving experience the NSX may be a great car still!

ttribe

You are forgetting the McLaren 570S ($187k) in your list of competitors. It's a very compelling argument against the value of the NSX.

Mizouse

was about to unsubscribe again from this thread.

fsttyms1

??? ??? Hum.....

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

the 3rd gen TL's were catching on fire too. power steering fluid leaked onto hot catalytic converters and caught on fire

fsttyms1

suspekt360

I find the 570S hideous. Just disgusting to look at..
On paper, it's amazing and I'm sure it drives incredible but it's not something I'd pull out a chair for and just stare at.

For me, the NSX has the "sit down and stare at it factor'. And this doesn't come from overt styling details. It's from the subtlety and nuances in the design which I've always admired about good Honda design.

Does the R8 have it? The gen 1 did. Gen 2 not sure
Does the 911 have it? Kinda
Does the GTR have it? Kinda
Does the AMG GT have it? Kinda
Did the LFA have it? Yes
Does the Huracan have it? Yes

I know it's subjective what I'm saying but some cars have that red wine factor. Your drinking it for the taste not buzz. I think the NSX is a car you park, enjoy hand washing, and then sit there with a beer and stare at and walk around.

That's just me. I personally would choose the NSX over the competitors.

nist7

Good point. The styling of that McLaren is quite fugly though imo....

heh. Of course any car can catch fire. I should've clarified my statement...I did not mean that it would NEVER catch fire but obviously Ferrari/Lambo and other supercars of the calibre are WELL KNOWN to catch fires out on the roads...and the NSX is not KNOWN to be easily caught fire...of course car fires can happen to anyone.

It was a quick expression to compare the reliability/driveability of the NSX...which it is well known for. If the NSX were known for being caught on fire all the time it wouldn't certainly have had its status as a DD supercar.

So was just a clarification on my sentence which again I did not mean that it would be IMPOSSIBLE to catch fire but a general comparison to other supercars which are more likely to catch fires as we've all seen/heard.

When a buyer gets the new NSX there's no reasonable expectation that it has a higher fire risk...compared to say a ferrari/lambo which that expectation is higher....

edit: lol, here's the thread right below the NSX one on the Ferrari 488 stopping sales due to fire risk:

https://acurazine.com/forums/automot.../#post15644986

Also when we search for "NSX fire" its basically that one test mule and that other one you posted....when you search for Ferrari and lambo fire....TONS of cars being on fire on side of road shows up....

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

The main complaint seen around here are mostly about how the NSX still isn't in a customer's hand because Acura hasn't had a halo car since the 1st gen NSX was gone. That's where the "hate" is coming from mostly.

I think most here feel that the NSX specs are alright, except may be the weight. For me, the weight isn't stellar but I kinda expected it. Like you said, the GT-R is also this heavy. Actually, the new R8 V10 Plus is in the same ball park, as the euro spec model is already at 3664lb. The Huracan US spec is 200lb heavier than the Huracan Euro spec for reference. The Porsche 918 that uses way more exotic materials is at 3750lb too.

From the press, the major drawback of the NSX as you mentioned is the steering feel (or the lack of it). That's a shame so hopefully a Type R version would fix that.

There are other issues too, like the drive modes are not that customization, a tad too much understeer in softer modes, etc. But a lot of these issues can be fixed with changing the software. I think Honda got enough feedback from its media event several weeks ago and have enough time to make software changes. I'd imagine they can make some improvement to the steering too?

The good side on the other hand is that in stock form, the NSX is not underpowered. And better yet, it seems like Honda is leaving a lot of room for power increase. This is basically a race car engine. Its peak boost is quite low at 15.2psi. That's even less than the new Honda Civic 1.5T! This engine also doesn't have VTEC.

This is quite unlike Honda, where usually they don't leave much room for power increase unless major changes are done (like S2000 and all the Type R's, or even the previous NSX).

oonowindoo

Maybe there is a reason why it is set at such low psi?

With 20psi it might just explode like what happened on the ring... imagine that.

TacoBello

Since when is 15psi considered low for an OEM boosted application?

And no, it won't explode with 20psi. It just comes down to being all that more precise with the tuning.

SSFTSX

see Type R vs M135 vs Golf R. whose paper specification better related to result?. Type R has the best seat.



NSX is 300% stiffer than F458.

AZuser

I see where you're coming from. . . .

AZuser

You like it stiffer, huh?

fsttyms1

Which is a discontinued model. It has been replaced by the 488. And im raising the flag to their claim that its that much stiffer. Then again it would have to be since its between 400 and 700 lbs heavier

SSFTSX

NSX has electric torque. it can help in launch just like Tesla P90D. At higher speeds aerodynamics matter more than raw power.
F488 has very poor fuel economic. you cant drive that far from gas station.
NSX 9speed suppose to drive long distance in comfort. Acura has more dealers.

SSFTSX

Supereme reliablity.

Autoweek

REBIRTH; ACURA NSX IS A REVOLUTION OF POWER AND TECH

Byline: JAKE LINGEMAN

There are not many cars more hotly anticipated than the new Acura NSX. Just saying that the old car had a cult following would be doing a disservice to its rabid and massive fanbase. NSX fanboys--still kids with posters on their walls when the last NSX bowed-- expect/want/demand a pure, mid-engined, distillation of everything that Honda knows about making a car handle. An OG-NSX redux.

The car we ended up getting, though, is a lot different from the sequel the company had originally planned. About halfway through the new NSX's development, Acura decided to change everything.

Acura initially showed the new NSX at the 2012 Detroit auto show--ages ago in car years. At that point, it was basically just a styling exercise, not quite green-lit for production. "It was more yellow-lit," according to powertrain development leader Keiichi Wat-anabe. The concept was a hit, so development ensued. It was always slated as a hybrid, but in 2013, the naturally aspirated V6 became a twin-turbo V6, and the transverse layout went longitudinal, nearly requiring a clean-sheet design.

The final product, quietly gorgeous from any angle, arrives in spring with 573 hp and 476 lb-ft, mostly provided by the mid-mounted V6. The rest comes from the two electric motors sitting back to back on the front axle and driving the front wheels, and a direct-drive motor in back, part of the hybrid system. Power is routed through a paddle-shifted, nine-speed dual-clutch transmission and an all-wheel-drive system Acura calls Sport Hybrid Super Handling All-Wheel Drive (SH-SH-AWD?). It works with the two electric motors and the mechanical limited-slip differential in the back, allowing all four wheels to be controlled independently.

The NSX suspension is an all-aluminum doublewishbone setup in front and a multilink independent rear. Continental tires are standard; Michelin Pilot Super Sports, which perform better but are also noisier, are optional. Magnetorheolog-ical dampers at each corner have two settings, adjustable with different drive modes.

A chunky dial at the bottom of the center stack controls the settings, alternating between quiet, sport, sport-plus and track driving modes. The digital gauges even do a little twist when you rotate the dial, moving the redline closer to 12 o'clock. Switching between modes impacts the steering ratio, suspension firmness, throttle responsiveness, brake operation and exhaust sound. In quiet and sport, things are dialed back and muffler valves are closed. The intake, engine and exhaust get progressively louder in the more aggressive settings. The NSX can operate under electric power only in quiet and sport, but engine kickon is noticeably louder than your average hybrid. In sport-plus and track, the engine stays on and the battery is kept charged.

Acura decks out the interior with leather seats and Alcantara inserts (good for keeping you in place), the company's latest touchscreen infotainment system and a bunch of chevron styling touches mimicking the shape of the car's nose. The dash's flat surface is a little busy, and in direct sun you see some glare on the windshield. It only becomes bothersome when dipping in and out of sunlit spots on northern California's woodsy byways.

Cruising up Highway 1 and the neighboring roads, the NSX feels sticky around the on-camber corners but compliant enough not to overreact when the roads get a little bumpier. Quiet and sport have one base suspension setting, while sport-plus and track have another. You won't feel too much difference in front-to-back motion, or heave, as the engineers told us, but those upper modes definitely firm things up side to side. We will say that, in the stiffest mode, the magnetic dampers didn't wear us out, even after a long day of driving. Supercars now need to be everything to everyone, it seems, and this one is no different. In quiet, you could tool around all day and almost forget you were driving the newest, high-techiest Japanese exotic.

Forward vision is great with skinny A-pillars and a high-visibility seating position. It's not that you sit high--there's still plenty of room for a helmet--but the dash and hood sort of slope away, leading to good frontal views. It's not quite as good as the original (we jumped in to compare), which offers one of the widest fields we can remember. Straight rearward vision is clear with the big back window, but backing out of parking spots is a little tougher when trying to look around the giant, blocked-out, flying-buttress C-pillars.

We're not complaining, though, because they look cool and help the car stay cool. The NSX has 10 heat exchangers, with the biggest and most important up front with the radiators, twin electric motors and the transmission gear cooler. The air flows in through the front intakes, out the wheel-well vents, back into the big side intakes and finally to the engine intake, turbo intercoolers and engine room. The air flowing over the roof and down the rear hatch is captured to feed the transmission-clutch cooler, while taillight slots manage wake behind the vehicle.

On the track in Sonoma, we were allowed high enough speeds to make sure the ducting worked to keep the car cool; we had no mechanical or overheating problems during a full day of racing, just one little software hiccup when the NSX wouldn't upshift after it banged off the rev limiter a few times. We drove the same car later, and everything was fine.

Acceleration is immediate with the electric motors but not brutal, even with launch control engaged. It doesn't scream like its Italian counterparts or roar like the Americans; the V6 just growls like a dog with its mouth held shut. When the windows are up, you hear some turbo whoosh and blow-off, but the exhaust never drones.

At and near the limit, the NSX feels neutral with some understeer when a corner is overcooked. The front-wheel torque pulls the car out of most bad situations, and a little throttle retraction brings things back in line if that doesn't work. On the throttle around long sweepers, it has a tendency to wiggle--we could feel the front wheels working to keep the NSX in line. We only experienced oversteer on trail braking, and straight, hard stops from triple digits are drama free.

Six-piston Brembo brakes do most of the work up front with 14.5-inch ceramic discs. The rear gets four-piston calipers and 14-inch plates. We were worried when Acura said they were regenerative, because most of those systems are far from what we'd call "performance-oriented." Not so here. These brakes are even set up to use more fluid as they get hot to maintain a firm pedal feel. We track two cars for about five hours, with just a hint of fade by day's end. On the street, they are flawless.

The squared-off, carbon-fiber-and-leather steering wheel doesn't bother us as much here as it has in other cars. The quick-acting variable-ratio setup means we don't have to shuffle our hands at all--our fingers stay in proximity to the wheel-mounted shift paddles.

"Zero delay" was a phrase Acura kept repeating during the drive, as in zero delay in braking, turning and acceleration. The company wouldn't give us straight performance numbers, but it says the NSX is faster to 60 mph than its benchmarks: the Ferrari 458, Porsche 911 Turbo and Audi R8. We can't say for sure without measuring, but with launch control enabled and electric torque from 0 rpm, it feels every bit as fast as those other cheetahs. We probably did about 20 launches in succession, without any warnings from the car or its handlers.

And while the steering is direct, there's not a lot of road feel. Acura says it did that on purpose to keep the daily drivability. We'd also ask for a customizable drive mode where we could set the throttle and shifting to track mode with the suspension in its softer setting.

Those are small complaints. After a few days with the modern interpretation of a legend, we accept them with a smile.

Acura estimates about a $155,000 starting price on the 800 cars heading to North America, so it's going to be rare. And while it doesn't hold entirely faithful to the old car's ethos, it does embody everything Acura's learned in the 25 years since. Is it as pure an experience? Probably not, but it is everything you want and expect from a Japanese supercar, development time be damned. It is worth the wait.

SSFTSX

this can happen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_F40
Clarkson also said the F40 is one of the most beautiful cars ever made. In series 16, episode 6, Hammond compared the F40 against its main rival, the Porsche 959. However, they never completed a lap on the Test Track, as the F40 failed to start and the 959 had problems with the turbos

srika

only 191 mph???? WHAT IS ACURA THINKING!!!!!!!!!!!! shoulda been 291 mph!!!!!!

ok, bye for now

HNY