krio

Ito talked about official sells in Ukraine and Russia from 2013.. Interesting... First step to Europe?...

Moog-Type-S

My thoughts exactly. Pointed front ends were cool 13 years ago.

dom

I don't think there's anything wrong with the styling of this trio. But still a lot of power train questions left. Will the ILX or RDX get any Earth Dreams engines? Doesn't sound like the RDX will and what about the Hybrid in the ILX?

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Interesting. Any news on what the power goals are with the new NSX?

Legend2TL

I like all three, but the ILX looks the most impressive for what's role is. A entry-level starter vehicle for the Acura line.

3 ILX engine choices! Where are all those hater's always bitching about lack of engine choices now

dom

I'm bitching about the lack of some sort of AT for the 2.4.

Legend2TL

I should confess that the ILX really needs a 6AT as well

jiggaman

5AT for ILX is weak

cjTL

iTrader: (2)

All three look good. The ILX and NSX are pretty damn awesome. Not a fan of how girly the front of the RDX looks now though. And I don't get what Acura is doing with the ILX's powertrain combinations.

Edit: The ILX only has a 5AT? Wow. Do not want.

dom

They don't have a 6 developed for the 2.0L and Honda won't be developing a 6AT for their 4 cylinder engines.

The 2.4 is getting the MT and the Hybrid the CVT. So the volume 2.0 is stuck with the old 5AT until the new CVT's are ready.

Moog-Type-S

I missed the 5AT part.....REALLY!?!?!?!?



MT - Good!
5AT - Bad!
CVT - downright HORRIBLE!

SlimTL

RDX:

ILX:

NSX:

Legend2TL

ILX taillights look very Audi-like in the video.

I like all three but the ILX styling they did a great job on, hint hint Acura put in a 6AT.

phile

NSX is the best one
ILX second
RDX a very distant third. I'm very disappointed in the RDX - it losts its cool factor. now it looks like an Acura version of the Lexus RX, and yet manages to look even more plain jane than that Lexus.

Moog-Type-S

The RDX never was cool....but it always was odd looking, with an odd engine.

Everything about it was odd.

cjTL

iTrader: (2)

At least the RDX looked aggressive and was a blast to drive. Now it looks pretty lame. And I'm sure the painted black wheels will make not it to production, which will dull the look down more. I'm gonna have to see it in person. Boring does sell though. Look at the RX...

SlimTL

The rear of the RDX seems to take styling cues from the TSX wagon.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

Here is my Flickr album so far for Acura's Press Conference:

http://flic.kr/s/aHsjxWUghH

I still have tomorrow at the show so I will be taking a lot more pics at the Acura Booth and many others so sit tight for more pics.

Colin

I'm guessing that the ILX will get a 'mix-n-match' combination of the CR-Z/Fit gas engine and the 'big' IMA from the new Civic Hybrid. I'd guess that 125-140 hp could be expected. Too bad they didn't see fit to use the excellent 6MT from the CR-Z in this car.

YEH

Someone w/ 2 TSXs in his garage would think differently, oh wait.

The same can be said for someone who went to Europe and looked at the Hyundai i40 or Toyota Avensis and compared it to the Sonata or Camry back home.


What diff. does it make to you?

Not that it should make any diff. but I've driven mostly bimmers w/ a couple of Porsches in btwn.





Evidently more than you.

Actually, I've done consulting work for certain luxury brands; have you?


Yes, b/c platform sharing w/ luxury flaship sedans that go from $80k to well over $100k is the same thing as platform sharing w/ an Accord.

Do you even realize how silly that sounded before you posted?

If Toyota hadn't built the LS on a dedicated RWD platform and developed a V8 powerplant and instead built it on the same underpinnings as the Avalon w/ similar powerplants do you think teh automotive press and buyers would have compared the LS to the S Class?

It's the same reason why GM realized that the XTS was not good enough to be seen as competitor to the S Class and 7 Series and why they have decided to pony up the $$ for a RWD flagship.

Funny how it's certain Acura and Lincoln advocates who try to argue how platform/powertrain sharing w/ mainstream models doesn't matter, but then they have no explanations for how the respective lineups are almost never compared to BMW or Mercedes in comparison tests or that the MSRPs are significantly lower for vehicles of around the same size.

There's a reason why the Camry-based ES is $10k cheaper than the GS altho both are mid-sized.


I wouldn't go out for any debate teams if I were you.

KillerG

JAB00

The ILX is pretty good looking. It's the best looking Acura sedan since the 3G TL. However, the 5AT nothing burger of an engine is a non-starter for me. Maybe this car will appeal to some 21 or 22 year old chick just out of college?

KillerG

Excellent reason to own an ILX...

Edward'TLS

The new RDX has a "AWD" badge now, and no more SH-AWD.

I particular like the "signature front grilles" on those three show cars. This is what the Acura signature front grille should be years ago, especially on the 4G pre-MMC TL.

F23A4

The new RDX looks way nicer than the current model and I'm happy to see that Honda came to it's senses in the engine department. The RDX should have had a J-series from day one.

As far as the ILX is concerned, I'm still trying to rationalize why Acura needs such a model when they can just shuttle folks to a Honda showroom for the Civic EX-L.

cjTL

iTrader: (2)

I agree. The grilles are starting to flow much, much better with their designs. Dare I say I actually like it on the NSX.

dom

Isn't it obvious? At least 20 more HP!

Kidding aside, it looks far better than the Civic and has a far nicer interior along with some of the latest gadgets. I think it will sell it spades. Only mistake they made IMO was not making the 2.4 standard. The 2.0L is inappropriate IMO.

Legend2TL

Yeah you're sooooo smart about cars and the business behind them, please tell us more would you?


In the car industry or other consumer products?

If you say the car industry I say

No, but I know people who've worked in the industry. Alot of what you have posted is inconsistent with what I've heard from some engineers I know who worked at Audi/Ford/GM.


Again to prove how little you know, a Maybach goes for over $300K. So you're little "over 100K" sounds really silly since the price point ratio of the Macbach and the S-class is so diverse, hence the Accord/TL makes more sense. Please go teach some classes at Wharton

Again to prove how little you know here are two comparison tests of the RL against the 5-series/E-class. When it came out it was very competitive, now not so.

2005
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests

2011
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html

And since you so like these descrete car classes, here's a Accord article from the UK auto media semi-comparing the Accord to a 3 series. Old article but sorta still relevant.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carrevi...executive.html

Toyota and Honda have set different paths for their premium lines. That's been well known and documented for 25+ years. Their approaches are different as is extremely evident, but so are the companies. They are very different in their cultures so to try to contrast their differences is interesting but also pointless unless you understand how their strategies and vision are directed.

I don't think Honda ever set out to compete head to head with Toyota directly. From what I read he was a pretty stubborn guy but also more of a visionary who set the tone for Honda.


FWIW, the LS400 1G shift lever assembly was directly lifted from a Camry. Incredible V8 no doubt but also kind of insulting to those that bought them. A friend's boss had one still a great car, that really shook up the Germans

Yeah that means so much coming from such a amazing intellect like yourself

Legend2TL

Since you seem to reference Lexus/Toyota alot here is the platform sharing they do
Lexus Toyota
LX based on Land Cruiser
GX based on 4 Runner
RX based on Highlander
ES based on Camry
CT based on Corolla
HS based on Avensis
GS based on Aristo (until Toyota introduced Lexus brand in Japan)
IS based on Altezza (until Toyota introduced Lexus brand in Japan)

So only the LS is a exclusive platform, or 1 out of 9 vehicles in their lineup

Legend2TL

YEH

I doubt many people will buy the Civic for its looks; otoh, I can see people buying the ILX primarily for its looks (it is an overall, handsome design).





Why would I have to do that?

I just to need to continue to show that you aren't.


Please pinpoint what exactly.

As it remains, despite protestations from some deluded Acura, Lincoln and even Audi backers - Acuras and Lincolns will continue to offer their lineup at pricepoints below the RWD Lexus and Infiniti models, nevermind the Germans, and even Audi has to offer its products at a lower pricepoint that Mercedes and BMW, esp. the FWD versions of the A4 and A6.



Gee, tell me something I didn't know.

The S Class is still a luxury sedan that only a small no. of people could ever afford.

There are about a thousand S Classes sold in the US each month; compare that w/ usual 20k plus Accords sold each month, not to mention all the other Honda products based on the Accord platform.

Valets in NYC and LA don't pay attention to the E Class, 5 Series, LS460, etc., but they do pay attention to someone rolling up in an S600 ($160k) or an S65 ($211k).


I didn't say never.

Note how they compared the top of the line Acura to the mid-line BMW, etc.

Also, one is more apt to see the Equus compared to the flagship sedans these days than the RL to the midsizers.


Didn't I already point out that some reviews compare on price, rather than segments?

That's why one will find the Genesis sedan compared to the GS, M, 5 Series, etc. in certain reviews, and then the likes of the MKS, LaCrosse, ES, etc. in other reviews.

Yeah, the approach has been diff. in that Toyota and Nissan have taken an approach to tackle the Germans head on (Toyota actually has a dual approach w/ the FWD ES, RX, etc.) and Honda having sets its sights lower.

Honda's approach currently is no diff. from that of Lincoln or Volvo right now.


Ooh, wow!

BMW has used GM transmissions.

Lotus has used Toyota engines, but eventually Lotus owners let Lotus know that it was not alright to continue using Toyota engines which forced Lotus to announce plans for new set of home-grown powerplants.

Legend2TL

I've already very well documented above that I know more than you in auto business knowledge but then again that's not saying much

You may not agree but you can believe whatever you want.

You may try improving yourself by reading Lutz's book, I've started to it's OK but not great. He takes alot of credit for some things that others were very involved with.

Yep, in 2005 according to C&D the M and RL were well above the last place 5-series BMW. In 2012 with the new 5, both of them are in last place. Despite the placings neither M or RL have come close to 5 series volume.

Legend2TL

You said almost never, but many RL articles have 5 and E comparisons are in them.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/car/2005-acura-rl

Legend2TL

I must get back to work
I must get back to work
I must get back to work
....

YEH

1st off, Lexus has gotten plenty of bashing from others and including myself for platform sharing, but not all platform sharing is the same.

The Aristo and Altezza were higher-end models for Toyota and they were RWD (note the flagship sedan in the Toyota lineup is not the LS, but the Toyota Century).

Toyota has separate lineup of luxury models in Japan made up of the Crown series and a couple of other models.

As for platform sharing for the trucks, that's usual (see Escalade, Navigator), and the criticism for Lexus hasn't been so much platform sharing, but not differentiating the Lexus SUVs from the Toyota ones enough w/ regard to the sheetmetal (note the Land Cruiser starts close to $70k, so it's not like we are talking Accord prices here).

Where Lexus has gotten the most flack (rightfully so) is from their FWD-biased vehicles such as the ES, RX, HS and CT - which have platforms shared w/ mass market models that sell in immense volume.

That's why comments such as the ES being "nothing but a Camry w/ a Lexus badge on it" have been common (gee, does that sound familar?).

And Acura's lineup is very similar to the Lexus' FWD lineup when it comes to how many people perceive it.

The proof, as they say, is in the pudding - and one needs to look no further than the MSRPs.

There's a reason (as I had stated before) that the starting MSRP of the ES is $10k less than the similarly sized GS, and why the TL is priced close to the ES and not the GS.

It really isn't that difficult to figure out why the pricing strategy is so different for the 3, despite all being mid-sizers.

So you tell me, then, what is the reason for the pricing disparity if it isn't what I had been saying all along?

And if things were so "peachy" for Acura and Lincoln, then why did they both have plans for a new RWD platform to be mated to a V8 powerplant until they realized that it wasn't a smart financial move on their part?

And why isn't Cadillac satisfied w/ the FWD XTS as being the competitor to the S Class, instead of planning on spending a good billion just to develop a new full size RWD platform?

Same w/ the new ATS, instead of spending a lot of $$ to develop the new RWD platform underpinning the ATS; Cadillac could have just put new sheetmetal on the platform underpinning the Cruze, just like what they did for the Buick Verano, but they knew if they did that, it would never be taken seriously as a competitor to the 3 Series.

And as I had stated, the Infiniti G didn't start to be taken seriously as an entry level sports sedan until it got rid of the FF layout that was upderpinning the G20 w/ the RWD G35.

Legend2TL

^ Sorry, but I must get back to work (ton of SOA/corba architecture to write up). Perhaps later I will respond.

BTW, I do enjoy a healthy debate on auto industry.

YEH

^ Let me break it down for you real simple; just need to answer 2 things.

1. Why are models like the ES (within the same brand) and the TL priced considerably ($10k) lower than the GS (which is also a mid-sizer)? (The ES predates the GS and thus, has more "lineage" and time to build its prestige.)

2. An example where a luxury sedan based on a FWD platform is the highest priced within any one of the 3 standard luxury car segments (entry level/compact, mid-size and full-size).

Black Tire

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...rticle2297517/

TSX will ge gone from Acura???

F23A4

...any chance Acura can treat us to a V6 6MT TSX before the final ax falls?

SSFTSX

IF you want to see real execution.
TSX V6 5speed auto has nearly identical performance as 2007 TL-S 6MT despite having 6 bhp less on 18 inch All season vs 17inch ultra high performance. look at 0-100mph timing.
I am not even going into curb weights and tested weight discussion.


http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/up...-acura-tsx-v-6


http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...7-lexus-is-350

http://www.roadandtrack.com/var/ezfl...abd609bbf8.pdf

2011 TSX updated is even more aerodynamically efficient. perhaps the most aerodynamic car in the world.