SpicyMikey

Yes, although Acura total sales were down in 09 (I think it was around 26%), Cadillac sales were WAY down dispite the pretty decent CTS and it's variants.

Colin

LOL, thanks for not letting the facts get in the way of the truth.

GrigioTL

Honda CEO Takanobu Ito announces that Acura will add a hybrid


During the unveiling of the CR-Z at the Detroit Auto Show, Honda CEO Takanobu Ito announced that Acura will be adding a hybrid drivetrain to its models. Ito gave no further insights as to timing or which vehicles would get the systems, but it's safe to speculate that the TSX and TL sedans would be the first recipients of the new system. However, when we spoke to Ito last fall in Japan, he did say that Honda was developing a hybrid system suitable for larger vehicles. It's not clear how much it will differ from the architecture of the current IMA mild hybrid system used in the Civic, Insight and CR-Z, but we do expect the system to come equipped with lithium ion batteries from Honda's new partners at GS Yuasa. Make the jump for a copy of Ito's comments.

Source: http://www.autoblog.com/

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Since the V8 + RWD plan is scraped, and the RL will be redesigned soon, most people speculate that the "new" hybrid drivetrain will be fitted to the next gen RL. Perhaps the system will be available for the next gen TL and TSX too.

dom

The RL averaged 13.4 MPG is MT's latest comparison, the lowest in the field. Sounds like it could use the help.

SpicyMikey

Yea I was thinking they would be offering a new Hybrid system in the next RL before any other models, but I learned I don't think like Honda so who knows what they will do.

BTW, that 13.4 from MT seems ridiculously low. I have an 07 RL. Average probably closer to 18. They must have been driving it around in Manhattan for a day to only average 13.4.

dom

I'm sure they were pushing all the cars pretty hard. In that type of driving I don't think the RL's 4K+ coupled with a 5 speed helps.

fsttyms1

But Caddy really only has 2 sellers and did that with the 2 sellers, the Escalade and CTS,. Acura has 5, mostly new models (RL,TL,TSX,MDX,RDX) to get those #s so i wouldnt say acura with that many makes did so good against them. .

fsttyms1

Now hopefully honda can make a hybrid setup thats more functional than a joke like they have produced so far.

SpicyMikey

The fact that Caddy only has two decent sellers isn't an excuse, it's the reason.

Acura only has three good sellers and one of them (the TL) has dropped off considerably this year after the redesign and price point uptick. Both brands really have nothing to brag about.

biker

What marketing genius is telling Honda to go the hybrid route vs. diesels for better mileage?

agranado

Yeah.. Honda/Acura is dead to me now.

biker

I'm not much a conspiracy theory kind of guy, but announcements like these make me wonder - is there some plot behind the scenes we don't know about in which the tree huggers, via Obama, are somehow squeezing (via incentives) the car makers toward things that on the face of it don't make sense?

SpicyMikey

Wow, such drama.

<Smack> You broke my heart Honda. You broke...my...heart...

agranado

Really though... with cars like:

New Buick Regal GS (concept)
Refreshed Lincoln MKX
New Buick Lacrosse
New Cadillac CTS (coupe, sedan, wagon, V variants)
A possible Cadillac ATS (entry level caddy?)
New Ford Focus
New Ford Mustang (5.0 baby!)

The progressively better Ford Fusion
The new Taurus (regular trim and especially SHO)

Comparing this with what Acura/Honda has been putting out over the past couple years? What the fuck do they have that would really draw my attention away from the slew of delicious vehicles being released today / over the next couple years from the domestics? My love affair with the japanese brands (particularly Acura) is nearly over I think.

SpicyMikey

I actually agree. i was just trying to make a "Godfather" reference. Didn't do a very good job. Sorry.

agranado

Oh. Well in that case, it is I who missed the reference.

SpicyMikey

No problem. I often see things and relate them to the GodFather for some reason. Am I weird? Such a good movie. Might be a little old for your taste but check it out if you can.

For some reason when i read your quote I thought of this scene.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcFlp6kl508

agranado

hahaha... I remember that scene now. Yeah that sums up my feeling betrayed by Honda over the past year and half with all the crap product they're bringing out now, especially after I went out and bought a Civic SI in support of the brand (at least its a blast to drive... possibly one of the last fun honda's to be produced for the forseeable future.)

Moog-Type-S

CAFE and the dollar going down the drain (which will equal insane gasoline prices) has mfg. hedging their bets for the future.

fsttyms1

I didnt say it was an excuse, i was pointing out that caddy out sold them with just 2 models as opposed to acuras 5 models.

CL6

The one that points to the facts showing hybrids outsell diesels in the US.

Moog-Type-S

Let's look at the facts....
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/hyb...ta-tdi-4-to-1/

http://www.hybridcarblog.com/2009/10...ota-sales.html

Take VW versus Toyota....diesel versus hybrid:

24% of total VW sales area diesel.
8% of total Toyota sales are hybrid.

The truth is that there are very few affordable diesel models sold in the U.S. versus hybrids. If/when there are more auto-makers that will sale affordable diesels in the U.S......then diesel has a very good chance of winning out over hybrids.

neuronbob

THAT was funny! I just scared the crap out of my son, I was laughing so loud.

Will I go from a supercharged V8/RWD luxury sedan to a 400 hp SH-AWD gas-electric hybrid RL? Stranger things have happened. It appears hybrids are the way of the future. (For the record: I prefer hydrogen, but I am a distinct minority in that regard. I accept this and have moved on.)

majin ssj eric

Guess what? I don't want a diesel OR a hybrid. I could give a shit about mpg. I want a high-revving V6 or V8 powering the rear wheels and making sweet music out the back. Why can't they just make that? BMW does. Infiniti does. Mercedes does. Lexus sort of does.

biker

The discussion of the day was Acura's talk of improving mileage, especially with the RL. You have to accept the fact that for the very long foreseeable future Acura will not make what you want.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

New Buick Regal isn't exactly a concept, it's simply a rebaged Opel. It sure took them long enough to figure out a way to improve the brand without investing much money..... Anyways, the GS model, I wonder why they are using 2.0L turbocharged engine instead of the more powerful 2.8L turbocharged engine used in the Opel Insignia OPC.

Are you talking about the MKX or MKZ? MKX is a CUV.

Besides the styling and price, I don't really see how the LaCrosse is a good car. I guess it's good because it has improved a lot compared to previous Buick models? I mean, the FWD model is already heavier than the TL SH-AWD 5AT, which is already a fairly heavy car. And the LaCrosse makes less power. Then look at the performance numbers, 0-60mph in 6.7s, 1/4 mile in the 15.3s@93mph. These numbers are pretty much identical to the TSX 6MT, which is a few thousand dollars cheaper while returning much better gas mileage.

The CTS is great, and the Focus is known for being fun to drive since its introduction many years ago.

Ford Taurus, if you consider the previous Ford 500 good, then I guess you can say the new Taurus is good. To recoup the investment made in the Ford 500, Ford chose to build the new Taurus on the same Ford 500 platform. Because this platform is also being shared with the Ford Freestyle, the floor level is high, and there's a large ground clearance. I think it's obvious to see that from the styling of the Taurus. What does that mean? High centre of gravity.

Well, this EUCD platform, which is used in the Volvo S80 and the European Ford Mondeo isn't that bad actually. After all, the Ford Mondeo is famous for its handling. But here's the big difference: while the Mondeo is around 1400-1500kg, the Taurus is over 1800kg. Then check out the overhangs (probably for crash tests and a bigger trunk), and the higher centre of gravity. What does that mean? Understeer. What about the SHO? It sure has a great engine, no doubt about that, but you need more than just more power for a performance car. And here I think Ford did a rather sloppy job. It's okay if it uses the simple Haldex AWD system. After all, it's a Ford, not an Acura. But what about the chassis tuning? It seems like the only upgrade is 15% stiffer suspensions. There's no change to the braking system to handling that extra 100hp! The optional performance package is more promising though, with grippier tires with 20" rims, 20% stiffer dampers, 9% stiffer springs, thicker rear sway bar, shorter final drive, and performance brake pads. But there's still no upgraded brake calipers and discs. And indeed, according to C&D, the SHO has brake fade problem.

Moog-Type-S

Holy off-topic Batman!!!

neuronbob

Fixed.

I realized that they really don't want to make a V8/RWD car, so I moved on. I will still be an Acura owner in the future. Depends on what they do with the RL. *prays to car gods again that they don't fsck up the next RL*

fsttyms1

You may have to pray to the sun gods, beer gods and naked snow angel gods for that to happen

neuronbob

^^^^^^
You're probably right.

Even so, I'm strongly looking at the TSX wagon for the wife ( Acura!), so the absence of an Acura from my garage will likely be temporary.

Belzebutt

^ I hope to see lots of TSX wagons driving around in the future.

Mansa24

Actually, Caddy has more than 2 models. The CTS, DTS, SRX, Escalade, and Escalade ESV seem to be the top sellers.

Colin

Wouldn't it be interesting if they could fit a pair of pancake electric motors where the rear SH diff currently resides? If they could fit a pair of 50 hp motors, it would be similar to the DualNote concept in output. All they'd need are the batteries to supply the power. (admittedly the hard part).

agranado

I agree, it sure did take them long enough. Point though, is that they did it. And the Buick lineup is looking far more attractive these days than it did just 5 years ago.

The refreshed MKX.



If I'm not mistaken, the LaCrosse's main competition is the ES and competes with it very nicely at similar price points. a fully tricked out lacrosse compared to a fully tricked out ES? My choice, is the Lacrosse. Also, if you're going to bring up the new TL, any argument is automatically trumped by that ridiculous beak. Again, in my opinion, that alone is a deal breaker for me. Not to mention it has porked up since the last gen. I loved the 3G TL. No doubt. And despite the tech and interior, I just cant bring myself to love this 4G TL anywhere near as much.

Btw, a TSX with Tech on Acura.com starts @37950, while a well equipped CSX on Buick.com with similar features to the tech option goes for 38200. The TL would price out by several thousand upwards of this. Same can be said for the ES. A BASE ES starts at 35175. It only goes up from there.

agreed!

I haven't been impressed with the focus since it first came out. I'm glad to see these euro models come over. The current Focus, while impressive with SYNC, just was not aesthetically pleasing to me in any way, shape or form.

I'm plenty pleased to see the direction Ford is taking on a design perspective on their exteriors and interiors and their powertrains are becoming substantially better (SHO's 3.7 ecoboost as you acknowledge.) Unfortunately, the Taurus does suffer from having been born from the old 500 in a number of ways (though I hear this will be rectified for the next gen Taurus due in a couple years.)

Overall, its just exciting to see these companies quickly right the ships and start producing cars consumers like myself can get excited about. It sucks that it took for them to be on the brink of bankruptcy for this to happen, but better late than never.

I felt excited about the 1G TSX, the 3G TL, the MDX and the 1g RDX before the addition of the beak, the spy shots of the NSX before it got canned, the 2G RL before that horrid redesign and even the 2G CL (6SP of course.) Acura had the opportunity to take a different direction and instead they got all muddled up. They have nothing that excites me as much as what GM or Ford have to offer right now.

neuronbob

I'd consider buying that if the exterior styling isn't fugly. The Dualnote drivetrain was pretty impressive....400 hp and awesome low-end torque, with 40 mpg. Oh yes, I'd consider it. Honda was ahead of its time with the concept.

Colin

Assuming they want to use an existing chassis, I'd imagine that the DualNote drivetrain would flip, ie. gas engine up front, electric motors in the back. The BIG problem is batteries. You just can't store enough energy in a reasonable amount of space. (not to mention weight)

fsttyms1

I know they have more than 2 models, but it was basically just 2 models that did all the Numbers for them. Of what you posted 2 (the Escalade and ESV are the exact same thing, one is a longer wheel base of the other) The DTS and SRX combined sold less than the CTS. Both were low on the selling list.

Mansa24

Caddy 2009 sales (as GM reports)

CTS 38,817
SRX 20,237
DTS 17,330
Escalade 16,873
Escalade ESV 6,588
STS 6,037
Escalade EXT 2,423
XLR 787

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Ah, so you are impressed by the domestic brands mainly because of the improvementa that they have made/will be made. I agree with you, they are definitely going in the right direction.

I guess for me, the new grille design from Acura isn't too offensive to me. I mean, the improvements in other areas are enough to make me not worry too much about the styling. I like the new tech features, the sh-awd, the better fit and finish, the overall ambience inside the cabin of these new Acuras. Engine-wise, it's relatively disappointing because the J series is near the end of its life. They also need to add a coupe to the line up. Other than that, I think they are doing alright. I guess people are disappointed mainly because the improvements made in Acura cars are not as obvious.