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This counts as a good dealership. It worked out in your favor. The manager fieldtrip is usually a non-negotiable. And first offer is 99% crap unless your ass leaves the chair or you let him known ahead of time. If not, they play the same script to everyone.
Yep. This is a good Dealership compared to most. I've gotten to know the GM and most in the service department. They're good folks. That said, I approach the sales department of any dealership with careful skepticism. As @SRB-TL correctly points out, they all play these games to some degree. It's the service side where this Dealer really shines. I remember how blown away my wife was the first time she came with me for service. She had dealt with lots of sharks and slimeballs for the service of her Saab. She couldn't believe how courteous, honest and transparent they were. Honestly, this service department is the main reason we haven't shopped other brands except for a brief consideration of Honda Accord, but my wife put the kaibosh on that.
LOL...Thanks for the good laugh on Tuesday morning guys! I wish there is a "laugh with" button right next to the LIKE.
Always
Originally Posted by Shadow2056
No need for an apology buddy. We're all human(I think). We make mistakes. I don't think I've ever really seen anything you've ever posted that I disagreed with. I think for the most part, we think alike. But it's hard to tell intentions from text. Lol. Some don't know if someone is being sarcastic or genuine. I hate that you had to run into those problems working at an Acura dealership. I know the guys here in service(I work as a sale consultant here at Honda) personally and they advise against a lot of stuff I've done. One time I had a set of wheels that were discontinued that I've wanted for a while. Though they were 5x114.3. Found out they were 5x115. But they seemed to fit right! One of the techs was like "No. I highly advise even driving around the block with those wheels on. I don't care that it's off by .7. That .7 it's off will cause a horrible vibration." Another one in parts, I go to when I'm looking for tire recommendations. He's never wrong. The last time I didn't listen to him, it cost me an extra $200. Lol! Our techs here aren't about making money. They're about doing what's right for the customer. I hang out in the shop a lot. Get to know the guys back there. Especially since a lot of them modify cars. One guy has an LS swap in an S10 that's he's been working on since beginning of last year. SOOOO clean. We're all waiting for him to do the first start up.
With me, I'm about making sure the customer gets what they're looking for. as a car enthusiast, that means even if it isn't my brand, that they're happy with their purchase. you want something that tows 7,000lbs and it's 3rd row. Do you REALLY need 7000lbs of towing capacity? You do? Then a Tahoe would be your best bet. If you never plan to tow that much, The Pilot or Passport would be better. Why? Better fuel economy, more reliability, and more standard features. the cost of a base Tahoe, you can get a Pilot Elite. you just want a Tahoe? Will do. I have a pre-owned one here. You want new? No problem. thank you for stopping by. If my product doesn't suit the customer, that's fine. I'm not going to try and push them onto it. When I don't customers love me for it.
Anyways. Long story short, you were already forgiven the moment I read the post. Lol.
When I'm wrong, I'm wrong and will apologize for my actions. It's the person I am. I will do the right thing. Respect is always a two way street. I can take it as well as give it right back. I respect that you spend time in service. You experience what the technicians go through and I'm glad they are doing the right thing. I will be clear, just because I didn't have a great experience with Acura, doesn't mean all Acura dealerships are the same. In fact, when I worked for Mercedes and BMW the service end was better but politics as usual for the rest of the dealership. I think a lot has to do with being in North NJ. We all do things regardless of the advise given. I'll be the 1st to tell you of all the crap I've done despite being told other wise. You know that phrase "Well I told you so.." Well... yeah you did . It's part of being human. Again, I'm sorry for my response to you before.
Originally Posted by SRB-TL
This is very, VERY true, across all car makers. The fundamental issue is at the root of this; the franchise system in America. United States is the only country in the world that had Congress/Parliament pass a LAW that prohibits direct sales/contact of car manufacturers with customers. This is why Tesla is being sued left and right by States. Because the car cartel lobby is so powerful, they have politicians in their pocket. The entire car industry is a dinosaur model. It needs to die. And it needs to die 20 years ago. I've owned/own 32 cars since I got my license 21 years ago. The car buying/servicing process is vomit inducing and extremely stressful. We should be allowed like the rest of the modern countries to go online, build a car we want and send it to OEM or go to their store like Tesla and pick what we want, have it delivered, end of story. It's not about money. I don't care if the cost of vehicle goes up 20% because of this. The fact I can't go to Honda dealer and simply get a straight answer on how much a car costs without having to be there 2 hours and to listen to BS sales pitches is insane. The fact that once you have a price (that's what you think) and go to F&I office where entire new hard pressure sale tactic starts is more insane. People put their guard down and think they're going to "sign the papers". Think again bub...you're about to be F2F with the most skilled salesman in the building and you're on his turf. The fact there is an entire industry of highly skilled liars who train salesman how to manipulate you is not insane...it's criminal. They have the process down to the T. They put pictures of kids, sometimes fake on their desk to induce sympathy from you. They wear you down with hunger and fatigue to have your concentration drop. They love to have partners come together so they can turn them on each other. They ask questions if they hear an accent where you're from and then say they have a guy they go drinking with that happens to be from your country. I could go on for hours. It is a very controlled environment that is meant to do one thing, and one thing only, take your money. I've had Acura dealers lie to me that the car was CPO and would hurl insults for me to refuse to sign the paperwork until I see it in the CPO system. I made them CPO it right there and then. It was a blatant lie. Also, speaking of CPO. I had an accident with my previous Accord, it was fixed half-ass by insurance and I traded it in with full disclosure. The dealership CPO'd it...It blew my mind when I saw it on their website as a CPO. It was MY car - and I know exactly what was wrong with it structurally, so did the dealer...and they still did a CPO on it. Maddening. And you mentioned service department. I love the "service advisor" title. They're nothing but glorified salesman. Their one and only goal is to SELL, SELL, SELL. Most of the time BS services. I've gotten into heated exchange for being almost called stupid for refusing trans fluid service at 20K miles. I asked them what does the owner's manual say for my car? The guy did a sarcastic smile and said if you want your trans to blow up, go right ahead. I told him well maybe you think you know better than the group of engineers who dedicated their lives to creating my car, I don't. Who should I believe? The guy in a lab coat with 5 mechanical engineering degrees or the guy smoking cigs by the oil disposal area and popping breath mints on his way back in. My personal mechanic used to work at Acura dealership and before that he fixed airplanes. He quit for the same reason you said. Exact same reason. He now owns his personal repair shop. He started out in 2010 in a messy garage sharing space with 5 shady dudes. That's all he could afford. Now he has two locations with tens of thousands of square footage and 20+ lifts and I don't even know how many employees. He tells me the same stories you told me. Also, back in 2008, my wife and I fell on hard times and we were cleaning dealerships at night with our infant son in a car seat sleeping in the service bays. They would drain oil filters and then re-install them as new on customer's cars when they did oil changes. They also had stacks of dirty filters to show it to the customer. Dealers still do this today. I don't go to dealer service unless I am literally cornered due to a recall. Even then, as for example right now. There is a recall on fuel pump for my Accord. I haven't gone in yet. I've seen stories on Accord forums where they did such a bad job, gas smell lingers in the car for months. I'm considering waiting until the new design pump is available for purchase and having my mechanic put it in. I'd rather pay for the piece of mind. When I first purchased my Accord, there was an issue with the seat track (it wobbled). I went back and I happened to be outside and I saw the tech who had my car take it on a joy ride. He couldn't resist (2.0T 6MT). When I brought it up to them, they said we do road test for every car. Well that was BS because I didn't see any other car go for a ride. They offered me two free oil changes. Right, so they can drive around in it some more? Or damage it on purpose because they got caught? Like I said...the entire car franchise industry needs to die right now and it needs a complete overhaul to do what Tesla does. Have all employees be employees of Tesla and all stores be corporate, not franchise. But that will never happen. The dealership cartel is too powerful. It's their world, we just live in it.
Very well said!
As I said to Shadow, not all dealerships are the same but there seems to be more greed driven ones vs honest dealerships.
Originally Posted by Midwestuser1
100% agree on the “dealership cartel” analogy. This is so true for the vast majority of dealerships aka “Stealerships”. It really is a disgrace how many are O.K. With blatantly lying to customers for “money”!!!
It's unfortunate. I went through the same thing with the purchase of my BMW's. The amount of time I wasted in making a deal, down to the moment I was ready to purchase was a disgrace.
Originally Posted by robnalex
I'm not disputing the reports by @04WDPSeDaN and @SRB-TL about horrific sales and services practices at Acura Dealerships, however, it's important to note that there are notable exceptions. I've enjoyed a 25+ year relationship with an Acura Dealership in Cary, NC. My preferred Service Advisor, and several others in the service department, have been there at least that long. Their Shop Foreman is a treasure of knowledge, experience, and integrity, and has been there for over 30 years. They never upsell service work. Instead, they always provide options, and on major items, they usually get me a discount.
Anyone who's bought a car or two has likely experienced the lets-make-a-deal-torture-chamber-of-horrors. We bought our RDX two years ago from this same Dealership, with a decent salesman who didn't employ any of the B.S. tactics you guys described, however, we did have to play the old back and forth to the sales manager for every proposal. Two months ago I met with the same sales rep to test drive (and ultimately purchase) our TLX. They had a sticker price of $45,900 on the car. I'd done my homework, and knew what I was willing to pay. I told him "We're not going to play lets-make-a-deal on this car. Give me your best price, and if I like it I won't shop other Dealers." He asked, "Do you have a price in mind?" I said, "I'm not giving you a number." He said OK, and came back with $39,000 - under 41K out the door. Deal. When we met with the Finance Guy, he started to pitch the snake oil add-ons. My wife looked him dead in the eye and said, "I don't want any of that." Done. Could I have gotten it for less by shopping and turning it into a project? Probably, but it was worth at least $500 to me not to have to do that. Even relatively decent sales reps are never going to say no to a higher price, but if you can find one who's above board and knows you're not f-ing around, you don't have to overpay.
My apologies for perpetuating this OT discussion, but I think it's important to point out that there are some decent Dealerships out there. We're lucky to have one here, and I feel bad for those who don't have a choice and have to deal with the a-holes. So, to make this post relevant to the thread, the future Dealer prices for the Type-S will depend in large part on how much BS buyers are willing to put up with and how much they're willing to pay.
You are lucky and not many have a pleasant experience or relationship with their dealership. I appreciate what you said and appreciate more that you didn't discredit what I experienced. As mentioned above, not all dealerships are the same. It's possible to find the right dealership that is willing to work with you. Doesn't happen often but there isn't a dealership out there that is 100% honest or won't waste your time or try to pull one on you.
Originally Posted by SRB-TL
So think about this...you've praised your dealership, yet described exactly what the issue is. Back and forth with sales manager for every proposal, what price do you have in mind, finance guy with snake oil, etc. So even the best of the best does it. They can't help it. It's who they are fundamentally. You said no BS tactics but you still had to go through the back and forth "let me talk to my manager". I give them one - and I'm not exaggerating, ONE trip to the manager's desk. That's it. I'm clear about it too. One guy I told and he didn't believe me. He came back with a stupid number and I told him that's not what I offered. He said let me go back and talk to him, and I stood up and said "what did I tell you 15 minutes ago before you went first time?" - He followed me, as in, actually followed me out to my car as I was leaving.
My two BMW's which were purchased out of state and a year apart from each other, was a decent experience. I gave them my offer (certified check) no bs, take it or leave it. They played hard ball and eventually called me back nearly a month later to accept my offer.
Originally Posted by robnalex
BS is everywhere. It's a matter of degrees and how one negotiates it. And for the TLX it was zero trips to the manager. Sales Rep had authority. Less than 5 minutes and he came to me with a price. No song. No dance. And even the Finance guy was not pushing the snake oil hard. He offered. We said no. End of conversation. I swear, some of you guys just live to nit-pick.
Like I said, you have a great dealership that is willing to work with you. Unfortunately MANY do not have the same experience.
I'm really curious, did anyone get a quote from dealers in Canada? If our inventory is even more limited, I wonder how much they'll charge for the Type-S.
Just come back from the dealership today.
It has 3 customer orders out of a total allocation of seven 2021 Type-S sedans.
The factory $1,000 cash back rebate doesn't apply for the Type-S, which is being ordered/sold at MSRP.
I actually like customers like this. And I have a couple of customers like this as well. I tell my managers they have one chance and they guy is walking. I get a LOT of customers that say that though but won't tell me the number. My reply to them is "You want me to get to your number, only giving me one chance but yet won't tell me what that number is. But you said you don't want to play games. That's a game. Tell me what price you want to be at. That way it's one trip for me and another 3 more saying 'Let me talk to my manager.'" If it's a reasonable one, my manager will do it. But a lot of them are like $2K below invoice. Sorry. we're not Chevy or Ford where we can afford that kind of mess. Come in with a reasonable number, I'll fight tooth and nail for you to get it. Come in with something outrageous, I won't even take it to my managers. But I like the ones like you. You come in with a number and give one chance. No back and forth. That's what I like. Lol.
Agreed but also, invoice isn't really what you're paying for the car, is it? It's a nice technique. There's factory bonuses, bank kickbacks, regional incentives, etc. Dealership can sell a car below invoice and still make money. The customer who cries for invoice paper is uninitiated. If that was a real price, dealership would never show it. I like it straight. I'm open and honest, we either do the deal or don't. This can be done well in advance over email. No need to waste anyone's time.
No need for an apology buddy. We're all human(I think). We make mistakes. I don't think I've ever really seen anything you've ever posted that I disagreed with. I think for the most part, we think alike. But it's hard to tell intentions from text. Lol. Some don't know if someone is being sarcastic or genuine. I hate that you had to run into those problems working at an Acura dealership. I know the guys here in service(I work as a sale consultant here at Honda) personally and they advise against a lot of stuff I've done. One time I had a set of wheels that were discontinued that I've wanted for a while. Though they were 5x114.3. Found out they were 5x115. But they seemed to fit right! One of the techs was like "No. I highly advise even driving around the block with those wheels on. I don't care that it's off by .7. That .7 it's off will cause a horrible vibration." Another one in parts, I go to when I'm looking for tire recommendations. He's never wrong. The last time I didn't listen to him, it cost me an extra $200. Lol! Our techs here aren't about making money. They're about doing what's right for the customer. I hang out in the shop a lot. Get to know the guys back there. Especially since a lot of them modify cars. One guy has an LS swap in an S10 that's he's been working on since beginning of last year. SOOOO clean. We're all waiting for him to do the first start up.
With me, I'm about making sure the customer gets what they're looking for. as a car enthusiast, that means even if it isn't my brand, that they're happy with their purchase. you want something that tows 7,000lbs and it's 3rd row. Do you REALLY need 7000lbs of towing capacity? You do? Then a Tahoe would be your best bet. If you never plan to tow that much, The Pilot or Passport would be better. Why? Better fuel economy, more reliability, and more standard features. the cost of a base Tahoe, you can get a Pilot Elite. you just want a Tahoe? Will do. I have a pre-owned one here. You want new? No problem. thank you for stopping by. If my product doesn't suit the customer, that's fine. I'm not going to try and push them onto it. When I don't customers love me for it.
Anyways. Long story short, you were already forgiven the moment I read the post. Lol.
Of course you get red carpet treatment. Your “one of the guys”. Do you tell your customers this story too?
If I need surgery, I pick my team and get preferential treatment. You cannot compare your experience at Acura service with your Acura as an Acura employee.
^ That’s what the car will look like in a few years when the 20 year olds can afford it. Though, by then I hope the “Stanced” fad fades away. Make the wheel flush to the body, why bend the wheels and prematurely ruin your tires? Even dedicated racecars don’t have that much camber.
^ That’s what the car will look like in a few years when the 20 year olds can afford it. Though, by then I hope the “Stanced” fad fades away. Make the wheel flush to the body, why bend the wheels and prematurely ruin your tires? Even dedicated racecars don’t have that much camber.
Some vehicle owners only want the look, and not the functionality. Another example is stretched tires.
God forbid that someone buys a car that doesn’t meet your aesthetic requirements for automobiles. So your implication here is that if a owner wants an rear deck spoiler and upgraded wheels that makes him/her a poser of some sort. Why you expect the rest of us to adhere to your standards is just weird.
God forbid that someone buys a car that doesn’t meet your aesthetic requirements for automobiles. So your implication here is that if a owner wants an rear deck spoiler and upgraded wheels that makes him/her a poser of some sort. Why you expect the rest of us to adhere to your standards is just weird.
You're the one that said poser, not me, but if you pay to add things to make a car look faster but it doesn't actually make it any faster...well...if it looks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck...
You're the one that said poser, not me, but if you pay to add things to make a car look faster but it doesn't actually make it any faster...well...if it looks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck...
So in your opinion anyone who buys a rear deck lid spoiler is trying to make their car look faster? That’s just silly.
OK I'LL bite. Why would someone put a spoiler on an ES350?
Depends on the car. To me the rear deck lid is often the most unattractive portions of an automobile’s design. If you remember the 4th generation TL the rear deck lid was such a design failure that at some point Acura started attaching the rear spoiler to make the rear end more attractive. A deck lid spoiler adds a bit of flare to some cars to others it does not. I’ve seen a few ES350s with rear spoiler, but to me it did nothing for the car’s look. Understand I’m talking about a small spoiler simply as a design element. Think of it as choosing to wear a bow tie as opposed to a regular tie.
So in your opinion anyone who buys a rear deck lid spoiler is trying to make their car look faster? That’s just silly.
If all you wanted is a deck lid spoiler, you could add it on as an extra accessory rather than spend $3K for the whole package. Doing the latter would just be silly .
But let's just be honest; you got the A-Spec (P-Spec?) because it looks better because it looks faster. Looks being the operative word here. I think it looks better too. But again, I never said poser, you did. All I did was suggest that it's for owners who "only want the look, and not the functionality". Is that not true? Or maybe you're just projecting your own insecurities about the car?
If all you wanted is a deck lid spoiler, you could add it on as an extra accessory rather than spend $3K for the whole package. Doing the latter would just be silly .
But let's just be honest; you got the A-Spec (P-Spec?) because it looks better because it looks faster. Looks being the operative word here. I think it looks better too. But again, I never said poser, you did. All I did was suggest that it's for owners who "only want the look, and not the functionality". Is that not true? Or maybe you're just projecting your own insecurities about the car?
What functionality are you talking about? The only added exterior parts on the Aspec that don’t have a functional relative on the Tech are the fog lights and rear deck spoiler.
As to what you get for the additional $2,750 spent on the Aspec package simply peruse Acura.com. There’s a lot more involved than a deck lid spoiler.
What functionality are you talking about? The only added exterior parts on the Aspec that don’t have a functional relative on the Tech are the fog lights and rear deck spoiler.
As to what you get for the additional $2,750 spent on the Aspec package simply peruse Acura.com. There’s a lot more involved than a deck lid spoiler.
Are you trying to suggest that the wheel color, blacked out grill, decklid spoiler, blacked out rear bumper trim, and blacked out window trim are somehow functional?
Are you trying to suggest that the wheel color, blacked out grill, decklid spoiler, blacked out rear bumper trim, and blacked out window trim are somehow functional?
The basis of the post that you originally replied to was that modders were changing their cars in a way that decreased the basic functions of the automobile. Swapping out a black grill for a grill of another color, adding more attractive wheels, or adding a deck lid spoiler does nothing to impact the functionality of the TLX. It simply makes it look better to some buyers. While I’ll admit that since we’re talking about cars, where sporty and fast often gets blurred, those changes could be interpreted as making the car look faster yet I’d also argue that perhaps the Tech or Advance does not look fast/sporty enough.
You're the one that said poser, not me, but if you pay to add things to make a car look faster but it doesn't actually make it any faster...well...if it looks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck...
Well, it is an "appearance package" and a nice one at that. I had the 18 A-Spec awd in blue. I agree, didn't make it go any faster but a nicer look. The A-Spec package now will allow people to pretty much get the type S look without having a type-S. Nothing wrong with having a more sporty look. To me it was way to much show and too light on the go. Without the A-spec package it's a pretty plain looking sedan.
That's probably a question best reserved for Lexus, given that the F-Sport version has one as standard equipment.
Well, the Lexus F-sport treatment is a lot more than just cosmetic clad-ons.
For the ES350 base car, the optional "F sport 2" package includes sport suspension, adaptive suspension, bigger wheel/tire, Sport S+ drive mode, etc., etc., as well as cosmetic clad-ons such as rear spoiler. It is function + look, with function meaning better handling performance (than the base car).
In contrast, the Acura A-spec is only a pure look (non-functional) package. On the other hand, the Type-S package provides both function + look, and even more so than the F-sport due to the big bump in engine power.
Last edited by Edward'TLS; 05-26-2021 at 08:11 PM.
Well, the Lexus F-sport treatment is a lot more than just cosmetic clad-ons.
For the ES350 base car, the optional "F sport 2" package includes sport suspension, adaptive suspension, bigger wheel/tire, Sport S+ drive mode, etc., etc., as well as cosmetic clad-ons such as rear spoiler. It is function + look, with function meaning better handling performance (than the base car).
In contrast, the Acura A-spec is only a pure look (non-functional) package. On the other hand, the Type-S package provides both function + look, and even more so than the F-sport due to the big bump in engine power.
I did some googling and could not confirm that the transmission differs from that on the non F sport version. The adaptive suspension can be purchased as an add on. Other than that it’s all wheels and exterior accent pieces like an Aspec. That is one expensive FWD car. When optioned similar to a TLX Advance it lists for as much as a Type S.
Well, the Lexus F-sport treatment is a lot more than just cosmetic clad-ons.
For the ES350 base car, the optional "F sport 2" package includes sport suspension, adaptive suspension, bigger wheel/tire, Sport S+ drive mode, etc., etc., as well as cosmetic clad-ons such as rear spoiler. It is function + look, with function meaning better handling performance (than the base car).
In contrast, the Acura A-spec is only a pure look (non-functional) package. On the other hand, the Type-S package provides both function + look, and even more so than the F-sport due to the big bump in engine power.
F-Sport is just appearance like A-Spec. An actual F car, like the ISF is all of that. Same like S6 and A6 S-Line. Or Stinger GT and Stinger GT-Line. You get an idea.
F-Sport is just appearance like A-Spec. An actual F car, like the ISF is all of that. Same like S6 and A6 S-Line. Or Stinger GT and Stinger GT-Line. You get an idea.
Let me explain in more details.
The "F Sport 2" upgrade package for the ES350 consists of :
- (1) Adaptive Variable Suspension
- (2) Sport Tuned Suspension
- (3) Drive Mode Select with SportS+ mode
- (4) Better sound system
- (5) Other appearance upgrades such as Rear Spoiler, Shift Knob, Steering wheel, Door Trims, etc.
Above items (1) to (3) are called handling performance upgrades because they will allow the "F Sport 2" equipped ES to go around curves at higher speeds than the base ES.
An actual F car is yet another performance step above the "F Sport 2" equipped ES, which in turns is one handling performance step above the base car.
So I don't see how the "F-Sport is just appearance like A-Spec", when the A-Spec package is missing the suspension upgrade which is crucial for any improvement in handling performance.
Wow who the hell idea was it to not give US an option?
Same people who strip down the Accord Sport for US. In Canada, even 9th Gen Sport got heated seats, sunroof, push button, etc. In US, my 2016 Sport was basically an LX just with a body kit and wheels. VW does this too, Euro Passat is a work of art while the one in US is 2 gens behind and complete technology and powertrain garbage.
The "F Sport 2" upgrade package for the ES350 consists of :
- (1) Adaptive Variable Suspension
- (2) Sport Tuned Suspension
- (3) Drive Mode Select with SportS+ mode
- (4) Better sound system
- (5) Other appearance upgrades such as Rear Spoiler, Shift Knob, Steering wheel, Door Trims, etc.
Above items (1) to (3) are called handling performance upgrades because they will allow the "F Sport 2" equipped ES to go around curves at higher speeds than the base ES.
An actual F car is yet another performance step above the "F Sport 2" equipped ES, which in turns is one handling performance step above the base car.
So I don't see how the "F-Sport is just appearance like A-Spec", when the A-Spec package is missing the suspension upgrade which is crucial for any improvement in handling performance.
Is that in Canada? Because in US, according to what I can find online, F-Sport is: Unique exterior styling, including a special front fascia and grille, and sometimes rear diffusers or valances. Unique wheels are also included in many of the packages, usually with a choice of summer or all season performance tires fitted. Also included on most models are F SPORT steering wheel with shift paddles, F SPORT seats, a black headliner, aluminum pedals, and other interior upgrades.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying I've never hard of F-Sport 1 and 2 tiers. And I THINK, not sure but I think 2018-2020 TLX A-Spec actually did have upgraded suspension, not just appearance items.
The "F Sport 2" upgrade package for the ES350 consists of :
- (1) Adaptive Variable Suspension
- (2) Sport Tuned Suspension
- (3) Drive Mode Select with SportS+ mode
- (4) Better sound system
- (5) Other appearance upgrades such as Rear Spoiler, Shift Knob, Steering wheel, Door Trims, etc.
Above items (1) to (3) are called handling performance upgrades because they will allow the "F Sport 2" equipped ES to go around curves at higher speeds than the base ES.
An actual F car is yet another performance step above the "F Sport 2" equipped ES, which in turns is one handling performance step above the base car.
So I don't see how the "F-Sport is just appearance like A-Spec", when the A-Spec package is missing the suspension upgrade which is crucial for any improvement in handling performance.
Agreed. The F-Sport would be more akin to the A-Spec IF the latter had the Adaptive Damper System available on the Advanced and Type S trims (as well as the Honda Accord Touring). Annoyingly, the A-Spec has been (and I guess, always will be) a simple sport appearance package for the TLX.
Agreed but also, invoice isn't really what you're paying for the car, is it? It's a nice technique. There's factory bonuses, bank kickbacks, regional incentives, etc. Dealership can sell a car below invoice and still make money. The customer who cries for invoice paper is uninitiated. If that was a real price, dealership would never show it. I like it straight. I'm open and honest, we either do the deal or don't. This can be done well in advance over email. No need to waste anyone's time.
Honda doesn't really work that way. When I look at the deals I've gotten and seen us losing $1200, it's an actual -$1200. No kick back. Even if the dealership gets the financing. Nope. Still -$1200. Looking at it on the screen and seeing it in the office still be a -$1200 deal. These are things customers THINK but don't actually see.
Originally Posted by Acura TL Builder
Of course you get red carpet treatment. Your “one of the guys”. Do you tell your customers this story too?
If I need surgery, I pick my team and get preferential treatment. You cannot compare your experience at Acura service with your Acura as an Acura employee.
Not really. I've had the service manager ream me out about trying to get something done that I shouldn't have. Other times fuss at me saying I don't get to get in front of his customers. I don't really get red carpet treatment. The same advice they give me is the same they'd give to a customer. And I've heard this on a number of occasions.
Originally Posted by vhtran
Very clean look but I rather have the Acura emblem in the center.
True indeed. I'd probably keep all the decals on it though.
Originally Posted by Acura TL Builder
^ That’s what the car will look like in a few years when the 20 year olds can afford it. Though, by then I hope the “Stanced” fad fades away. Make the wheel flush to the body, why bend the wheels and prematurely ruin your tires? Even dedicated racecars don’t have that much camber.
Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
Some vehicle owners only want the look, and not the functionality. Another example is stretched tires.
If you look at BMW and Mercedes, they actually have a slight stretch on their factory tires. Now I'm not looking for a CRAZY stretch like 215s on a 9.5. Ugh! Lol. Nor am I fan of crazy camber either.
The Canadian TYPE S is priced very reasonable compared to the Germans. Selling Price$62,490.00 Includes $2,490.00 for Freight, PDI and Fee and Majestic Black Pearl $500. A comparable S4 is around $72,500 - $2K discount = $70,500.The S4 model doesn't include HUD. I just wanted to compare a model that is as close as to TYPE S. +/-$7-$8K difference. C43 and 340 will be at least $10K higher.
I won't include Red Sport 400 as it's a very old model, so it's not fair. But price wise TYPE S will be directly competing with G70. Let's see how they sell and which of these vehicles will capture more market share
Is that in Canada? Because in US, according to what I can find online, F-Sport is: Unique exterior styling, including a special front fascia and grille, and sometimes rear diffusers or valances. Unique wheels are also included in many of the packages, usually with a choice of summer or all season performance tires fitted. Also included on most models are F SPORT steering wheel with shift paddles, F SPORT seats, a black headliner, aluminum pedals, and other interior upgrades.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying I've never hard of F-Sport 1 and 2 tiers. And I THINK, not sure but I think 2018-2020 TLX A-Spec actually did have upgraded suspension, not just appearance items.
He is right about the F Sport packages in Canada, I knew about the packages when I considered buying one of those Lexus IS back in 2018 when there was a huge cash incentives during the clear outs.
I don't know how these things work south of the border though.
The "F Sport 2" upgrade package for the ES350 consists of :
- (1) Adaptive Variable Suspension
- (2) Sport Tuned Suspension
- (3) Drive Mode Select with SportS+ mode
- (4) Better sound system
- (5) Other appearance upgrades such as Rear Spoiler, Shift Knob, Steering wheel, Door Trims, etc.
Above items (1) to (3) are called handling performance upgrades because they will allow the "F Sport 2" equipped ES to go around curves at higher speeds than the base ES.
An actual F car is yet another performance step above the "F Sport 2" equipped ES, which in turns is one handling performance step above the base car.
So I don't see how the "F-Sport is just appearance like A-Spec", when the A-Spec package is missing the suspension upgrade which is crucial for any improvement in handling performance.
Originally Posted by SRB-TL
Is that in Canada? Because in US, according to what I can find online, F-Sport is: Unique exterior styling, including a special front fascia and grille, and sometimes rear diffusers or valances. Unique wheels are also included in many of the packages, usually with a choice of summer or all season performance tires fitted. Also included on most models are F SPORT steering wheel with shift paddles, F SPORT seats, a black headliner, aluminum pedals, and other interior upgrades.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying I've never hard of F-Sport 1 and 2 tiers. And I THINK, not sure but I think 2018-2020 TLX A-Spec actually did have upgraded suspension, not just appearance items.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think they just started the whole F-Sport 1 and 2 packages within the past like 2 years. Why I don't know. From what I remember, the IS250/350 got the F-Sport and got sway bars, lowering springs, different wheels and tires, and a couple other features listed here. So F-Sport was actual performance features. Whereas the A-Spec is just looks and a few electronic features. No actual performance. I know the 3rd Gen TL Aspec got lowering springs(I think it only like a .8in drop) and a lip kit.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think they just started the whole F-Sport 1 and 2 packages within the past like 2 years. Why I don't know. From what I remember, the IS250/350 got the F-Sport and got sway bars, lowering springs, different wheels and tires, and a couple other features listed here. So F-Sport was actual performance features. Whereas the A-Spec is just looks and a few electronic features. No actual performance. I know the 3rd Gen TL Aspec got lowering springs(I think it only like a .8in drop) and a lip kit.
Off the top of my head,
The 3rd gen TL A-spec package varied as the years went on. For argument sake, I'll discuss the 2004 Since it had the most complete A-spec package
-Front under body lip
-Rear under body lip
-Side skirts
-Rear wing spoiler
- A-spec emblem on trunk
-New tire information sticker on drivers side (varied spare specs due to auto or manual)
-18 x 8.5 A-spec wheels with high performance tires
-Two tone A-spec steering wheel
-A-spec suspension which was lower but varied auto vs manual. I believe the manual was stiffer and lower (1 inch vs .8)
-High performance brake pads only on the automatic version
So while there was no engine performance upgrade on the A-spec, it did (in theory) have upgrades which would benefit the driver on a track environment.
05-25-2021, 01:04 PM
Always 
. It's part of being human. Again, I'm sorry for my response to you before. 
.
