mike03a3

My current vehicles are 15 and 18 years old while my motorcycle is 20. Depreciation simply isn't on my radar.
(My '74 E-Type and '71 Honda CB-750K1 don't count since I'll likely never sell either.)

leomio2.0

This is precisely what keeps me away from a used (even CPO) M5. Those BMW V8 TTs are monsters, but their reliability track record is spotty at best. And just because you can suddenly afford a $100k+ vehicle, doesn't magically mean you can afford to keep it on the road ...

https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledi...nder_warranty/

Kense

I won’t touch a German V8 . The I6 is reliable and maintenance costs are really not much different than performance Japanese cars. So far I’m seeing the same costs as my Q50 red sport.

jwtarbaj

If it were stock your statement would be valid. You have to void the warranty to accomplish these results.

12.8 @ 108 mph matches Car & Driver test of the S4, you know the target for the Type-S https://www.caranddriver.com/audi/s4

Oh and the Audi keeps it's much needed warranty.

BEAR-AvHistory

Agree, Have never let depreciation stand between me & something I want. A car is a need up to a Civic or similar, maybe a small van. After that it becomes a want no matter what tortured logic some people try to use to justify it.

You keep your keepers longer than I do (8/9 years) except for very special cars. I lease the non keepers @ 36 months, Special keepers are/were1998 Ranger is 23 years old still have it, '67 Stingray sold to a collector after about 38 years, 280ZX after about 32 years was given to Make A Wish.

Bought my keepers 2004 BMW 330Ci ZHP sold in 2013 & 2013 135IS traded this month. Cobra is about 8 years old. TL was a short time keeper 2006 to 2011. With just 2 wheels the 2009 V-Star is only 12 years old.

djhtsx

iTrader: (2)

im pretty sure those pieces don’t void the warranty.

F23A4

Same here. My 19 TLX never received such compliments.

BEAR-AvHistory

Acura dealers are not the only ones. Top ADM's on the new Corvette Z06 will almost buy a TLX-S, $50,000 so far.

norsairius

Reliable and headache free.... kinda. I'm sure longer term the TLX will hold up well, but there's plenty of us that are running into first model year teething problems. Though to be fair, that's expected with pretty much any brand for the first year of a new model/extensive redesign. I expect the core/expensive components (drivetrain in particular) to hold up well long term though.

My TLX is a lease and it does have a few minor issues (noises in a few places), but I hope the dealer can find and address them. Nothing that presents a safety concern or would leave me stranded though (that I'm aware of), which is most important. Overall, we'll see how I feel in ~3 years. So far, so good though. I've been really happy with it overall for the kind of driving I need/want it to do.

Overall, I agree with your sentiment. Acura hasn't put out the fastest sedans out there with this latest TLX, but it's likely be a solid performer for many, many years of ownership with relatively little fuss beyond regular maintenance. That's exactly what I want out of a sporty-enough (for me) sedan these days. I may decide to try other brands/cars out if I continue to lease, but if I decide to settle down and buy/finance a car, Acura looks really good to me.

My red TLX has gotten the attention of two other parents in the parking lot at my son's school. I've never had a car get as much attention from strangers as the TLX has. The only other time I've had a stranger say something about my car was when I had a 2010 VW GTI with those "cheese slicer" wheels, a person walking by thought they looked really cool (and let's be real, they did ).

I didn't buy the TLX to impress others for its looks or performance, but I'm certainly not complaining about the positive attention its looks have gotten either. I think it's probably the best-looking car I've owned.

jhb31

I had a recent service, just oil change and filter. $140. Acura dealer a little over a year and a half ago was $70 for the same. Likely higher now. I think the acura used 5qt synthetic blend where the Audi is nearly 8 quarts of full synthetic. The one offset is the S5 gets 10-15% better mpg than I got in my TLX awd. Overall a break even on that but german cars have a stricter maintenance schedule so it will cost more in general. I was a bit worried about non-maintenance costs but have had none, also did a lot of looking on the Audi forums prior to buying and there is pretty much nobody complaining about failures outside of those that tuned the car. I would say if you want minimal maintenance costs Acura/Honda should be the choice and going into a german car I knew things would cost more but overall it's as I expected. Frankly the enjoyment of the ride/performance/interior comforts and overall enjoyment of driving the car offset any of those concerns but everyone's budget and expenses are not the same.

Will add I did by a CPO S5 with around 25k miles but it was about 12K less than a new type S with better performance. I probably couldn't pull the trigger on the car new at over 68k but it was reasonable to get it for about 45k with a 5 year warranty included in the cost plus tax of course minus trade.

Honda430

I have no doubt that you thought through your purchase twice over before making it. My post was in regard to buyers who unlike you just jump into a used German car without considering the “extras” and as such buy more car than they really can afford.

jhb31

Agreed, do the research and make a decision. I do think a cpo german car relative to a type-S should be in consideration, with an extended warranty. There is good value out there but even with a CPO there will be higher costs. If you are not sure you can pay for it then probably not a good idea.

leomio2.0

It's hit or miss really. Everyone loves to quote and stamp their feet, "Magnusson Moss Act! Magnusson Moss Act! I can put a T76 turbo on there and boost it to the moon and Acura can't void my warranty unless they can prove the part caused the failure!!"

Erm, not quite. If you do a modification that increases power output, there's a damn good chance the dealer and manufacturer will void the warranty. It's not guaranteed, but there's a decent enough chance. Despite what even the jabronis at K-Tuner say, yes, a tune will definitely void your warranty if you're caught with one and coming in for engine or drivetrain issues. What the Magnusson-Moss Act prevents is dealers saying, "hey, you didn't use an Acura brand oil/air filter, we're not going to warranty it because you didn't use factory parts!" It's basically to prevent manufacturers having a parts monopoly by scaring people into believing you must use their parts or they don't have to stand behind the warranty. It's not for protecting a consumer from accountability when modifying/upgrading their vehicles.

But ... some dealers don't catch or just don't care said upgrades/modifications. From what I hear, with BMW, you're fucked when it comes to this, even with the age old trick of flashing your tune back to stock before you bring it in. Apparently BMWs (and I'm sure many other companies) have a black box that can see via the ECU the commanded boost via a downloadable history. When they see more than stock boost parameters, they know you were messing with their tune and they'll void you warranty, foot you with the bill, and I've also heard they will refuse to give you CPO status when you turn it in (even if you didn't have mechanical issues).

I'm sure with the 3.0T being new in the Type-S models, any failures will be gone over with a fine tooth comb, and possibly to the level of having engineers flown out to inspect the engine/car. I've heard stories in the domestic crowd (GM/LSx engines) of "experts" being flown out to tear into an engine, finding "foreign residue" on the intake tract and voiding the warranty because they suspected the owner was spraying N2O and bombed the motor. It was likely true, otherwise they'd be suing GM and having the "residue" tested rather than bitching about how GM dealers suck on the internet. Back on topic, just a DP would be easily reverted back to stock, though they may see the tooling marks on the exhaust bolts/nuts and suspect foul play. All that being said, I'd be stunned if a DP caused any mechanical issues on the Type-S.

leomio2.0

I'm actually surprised it's that low, lol. I heard RS6's were commanding $70k mark-ups when they launched. Even if I won Mega/Powerball, I think I'd still have a hard time paying over sticker for any car.

F23A4

A couple of hours ago (while stepping out of my TLX on my way to Nothing Bundt Cakes), a woman approached me remarking that I had a really beautiful car. So, the compliment counter keeps ticking away.

leomio2.0

Here's the kicker though ... ok, we've established the TLX is quite a unique looking, and to many, a handsome car. But, would the majority of people come over saying, "holy guacamole, a Type-S!" You're getting compliments on your A-Spec, but I doubt there would be significantly (or any) more people complimenting the car if it were a Type-S. Only the small niche of car enthusiasts would really be able to differentiate a Type-S from an A-Spec ... same as with the other cars in its class too (S4, M340i, C43) compared to their more pedestrian models.

BEAR-AvHistory

5/8 of the MSRP is pretty steep.

ELIN

There is truth to this. I have to keep explaining to people that my A-Spec is not as fast as it looks. LOL!

Honda430

I’ve also had to tell a few folks who were intently admiring my car that it’s not as fast as it looks and there’s only a 4T under the hood. At least with a Type S I would not have to make excuses. While definitely not as fast as many other cars in that price range it’s fast enough to be considered fast by most people. To be honest the 4T is fast enough for probably 90% of drivers. My passengers get a little nervous when I start throwing that big boy around. Once you get used to the size the car is extremely nimble.

norsairius

Yeah, people *might* get away with simpler things like an intake or especially a catback exhaust, but I've read some stories where a downpipe can cause warranty issues because that's considered an integral part of the emissions system. That's why catback exhausts tend to be safer modifications since they only change up the exhaust after all the emissions equipment. They're mostly for sound, maybe better flow and a few extra HP, but not much more.

A tune is way more likely to void a warranty than not. VWs have a flash counter on the ECU so even if you revert back to stock, the dealer will be able to see that the ECU was flashed more times than what they have on record for your VIN and thus you'd get the dreaded "TD1" flag. I don't know what TD1 stands for, but a modified VW/Audi will basically be flagged as such and likely won't be repaired under warranty depending on what's broken. There's piggyback tunes that can be wired/plugged in to intercept/manipulate signals before they get to the ECU (Neuspeed Power Module or JB1/JB4), and word is those are undetectable, but there's some debate on that. On the other hand though, there are of stories where people have gotten things like water pumps/thermostats (a common issue reported in forums for every German car I've had, though only one of them actually needed them replaced) done under warranty even while tuned, with an intake, catless downpipe, etc. Dealer discretion can mean a lot. I sure as heck wouldn't expect something like a blown engine or transmission to be replaced with such mods on the car though.

That said, I'm personally not willing to roll the dice with a tune and voiding my warranty. I'd maybe consider it after the car's warranty is up though.

Mmmm... Nothing Bundt Cakes are so good, hahah, but I digress...

I'm pretty blunt and realistic about the car's performance if people ask me about it. I say it's "fast enough" for public roads to have fun and even get in some trouble, but it's not going to win many drag races against some of the other performance-oriented cars out there.

leomio2.0

True true ... and it's still early ... who knows, by the time it actually comes out, I'm sure there will be a dealer or two looking to get double sticker price for the first batch. But even at that exorbitant price, it'll still be a deal compared to the supercars it'll be in the company of (performance wise).

I still can't get over that interior though. The weird steering wheel and the even weirder button configuration. Not that my opinion is worth a damn ... I won't be in the market for a 2-seater sports car for at least another two decades, if ever.

jwtarbaj

You can run into a friendly dealer if you are lucky but no way a downpipe is going un-noticed.

My wife works as a service advisor at an Audi dealer. The techs say if returned to stock you can't see that it is tuned.

As far as flash counts mentioned in another post, dealers only see what they did. How do they know you weren't at Joe Blow brand dealer and got the reflash(es) there? Can you not have ECU problems?

Wife has worked at Chrysler store, Chevy, Mercedes and Audi. All of them you can only see what service was done at that location, nothing else. You might think they are all somehow connected and can see all that info but they cannot at all. Her brand owns multiple locations and they can't even see details from the same owners other Audi outlet. It stands to reason NO brand has that sophisticated a system to link all dealer info. Why do you think when you go to a new dealer they need all your info? If they were all linked the VIN should bring up all details about you right?

Bottom line it's about how uptight the dealer is, how badly the dealer wants to do work to make money and how strict the brand is with the warranty. A good dealer would know how far they can let things slide and try to help you out but they are not easy to find.

CheeseyPoofs McNut

The truth is very few people can tell the difference between a car that does 0 to 60 in 5.9 vs a car that does it in 5.5 by the seat of their pants.I'll wager only a select group of people who spend a lot of time driving or testing cars can really tell.

Excluding hard core car enthusiasts - what happens on the Internet ("The Kaboom XVQ does 0 to 60 in 5.1 seconds and is 10k cheaper than the Zinger TYB which only does it in 5.3. Only an idiot would buy the Zinger!!! ") isn't what happens in real life ("Oh - that looks nice. I think I want to test drive it!!")

When my wife test drives a car she simply gets on the on ramp and mashes the gas - if it goes fast enough it passes the test.

F23A4

Luckily, I don’t have that issue, running a stage 3 tune.

bilirubin

When the TLX debuted, some of the gripes were "the long dash-axle ratio is impractical, makes the car big without improving interior space", "it should've been a hatchback", and "Acura Design Studio in California should let Honda Japan do all the designing"
Well Acura listened, and your wishes have come true...



the Integra's short dash-to-axle ratio and liftback design maximizes interior space while keeping the exterior dimensions smaller, designed in Japan
happy?

Legend2TL

meh, that's not a fact (it's a observation) and no nothing you say also makes no difference to me so keep believing your perceived reality that all the tech worker drives their McLarens on weekends

Legend2TL

+1,

vhtran

norsairius

Based on my time owning VWs and BMWs, frequenting forums for them, etc., the majority of evidence points to dealers syncing to a central records database where cars can be flagged accordingly, so I'd be interested to know more about how the Audi dealer your wife works at evaluates cars that come in for service or more specifically, what kind of records they check/update, if at all. I agree that the dealer can't necessarily see what was done, but they should be able to see a flash counter at least and tracking that across a certified dealer network shouldn't be difficult and there's plenty of evidence of that actually happening.

BMW at least has some form of centralized record-keeping within its service network as any dealer can pull service records for any BMW no matter where the service was performed as long as it was at a BMW dealership. I assume other manufacturers have something very similar as your warranty should be valid at any certified dealership/service center, so they'd need to be able to look up your VIN and see the in-service/warranty start date, etc. I imagine such a system also helps track if recall/TSB work has been performed on a car if you were to take it to a new dealership later on (for example, if you move or if the car is sold and purchased by someone else who takes it in for service elsewhere) so that the dealership doesn't perform the work again and so the manufacturer isn't paying to have it done again.

We're also talking about manufacturers that know exactly which cars to recall if a batch of bad bolts are used on the production line because they can track which batch of bolts were used on which cars (BMW VANOS recall on some E9x 3-series for example). I think it's more than plausible that authorized/certified service centers would have a procedure to check vehicles and can mark them as having been tuned OR at least they can see that the flash counter is different from what "home base" says it should be. To that end, I assume a manufacturer would only allow an authorized dealer/service center who would follow such procedures to do ECU flashes. Otherwise, they wouldn't provide the ECU firmware/software directly to them.

Quick search online shows plenty of evidence of TD1 being an issue for tuned vehicles (even if flashed back to stock):

• https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...ve-been-warned
• https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...lashed-now-TD1
• https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...shing-to-stock
• https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/thread...of-woe.273664/
• https://www.vwvortex.com/threads/td1...-flag.5635710/
• https://www.onlyrevo.com/blog/revo-s...-undetectable/
• Though as discussed here, some dealers can be cool and up front about it: https://www.reddit.com/r/GolfGTI/com...a_stage_2_car/

Anyway, that said, I personally wouldn't gamble with a tune. More power to ya if you're willing to take the risk and "pay to play" but that's just not for me. I don't think I've seen as much discussion about how much Honda/Acura dealers look for tunes vs. the German marques, so maybe it's easier to get away with. I haven't researched it much though. Regardless, I hope we see more tuning options for the 2G TLX though. I think it would be good for the enthusiast community.

I actually don't mind the looks. Those pics from slightly elevated angles though do not do the car any favors. I see it as a nice Civic Si+, if that makes sense. I thought I read somewhere that Acura has indicated that every model will get a Type S trim, so I have pretty high hopes for the Integra Type S. I assume it'll use the 2.0T with either the Accord's tune or the TLX's. Part of me thinks it'll more likely be with the Accord's tune or else this could cannibalize TLX sales, but maybe SH-AWD is enough of a differentiator there. I really like that it's a liftback!

Kense

Funny, I never said everybody here drives McClarens, I said rich people here buy nice cars and live in nice houses but your 3000 mile away observation from visiting is trying to tell me how things are out here day to day That is what’s hilarious. Along with thinking rich people are all these humble guys driving accords living in regular houses .

fiatlux

Don't mind him; stretching your words while ignoring the context and then reframing it as a strawman narrative to attack is his MO.

MarcoTLX

good watch however the Type-S is still the winner if you ask me the G70 looks are good but not 2G TLX good looks wise. The interior on the TLX seems nicer than G70 interior too imo

Legend2TL

Sure, whatever you say
BTW, where did I ever make that hyperbole statement?
Go ahead, please show me.

fiatlux

​​​​​
Up to your old tricks again I see. Going from "millionaires and billionaires drive mclarens" to "all tech workers drive mclarens".

vhtran

Look is subjective. For me, if you want a sporty looking car, TLX-S is for you. If you want an elegant business looking, go for the Genesis. I'll take the Genesis interior.

Kense

Insanity, trying desperately to “win” . lol

ESHBG

How did you like your GTI? I haven't driven one in ages but I always think that it would be a fun car to own and drive. And I have to park in tight spaces often so the style is attractive for that reason also.

norsairius

It was pretty nice! Suspension was stiffer than I remember from my MK6 and MK6, but tolerable. The TLX is WAY better though, but that's not really a strike against either car in any way, they're simply tuned for different tastes.

The GTI was also smaller than I remember too, which probably one of the biggest motivations for trading it in. It could actually carry two kids just fine, even for a long weekend, but it was tight.

Performance-wise, the GTI was fun to drive and quick, but weirdly left me wanting more whereas the TLX doesn't (despite the fact that the latter is heavier/slower). I was disappointed in the responsiveness of the 7spd DSG though. Manual shifting was great, and I think the behavior in manual mode is WAY better than the TLX's 10-speed, but "D" or "S" modes are comparably better with the 10-speed in the TLX, if you ask me. I was actually surprised at this conclusion considering the inconsistent reviews of the 10-speed in the TLX vs. the relatively more consistently positive reviews of the DSG transmission in the GTI. Maybe mine was faulty, but the dealership couldn't find anything wrong when I brought it up. The DSG would sometimes take actual seconds to downshift when I'd floor it.

Otherwise, front wheel drive was fine in the GTI. The "VAQ" differential was pretty awesome when powering out of corners too, but SH-AWD is way better and smoother as it transfers power vs. the relative jerkiness of the VAQ. That said, I admit it's not a fair or apples-to-apples comparison since I'm comparing FWD vs. AWD.

That said, a lot of my desire for the GTI was based off of nostalgia from having an MK5 and MK6 when I was unmarried and without children. It worked okay with two kids, but something bigger just works better/easier. The additional comfort that the TLX offers has also appreciated by all. Newer GTIs also unfortunately suffer from VW's continued cost cutting in the form of increased use of cheaper materials in the interior, but the MK7 was still fine. The MK8 shows more of this and the lack of buttons for basic controls has been widely criticized. The TLX is much better in this aspect.

I also had longer-term concerns about the reliability of the GTI. The EA888 engine is generally pretty solid, but water pumps/thermostats still present concerns, as they have for basically the GTI's entire 40+ year existence from what I've read.

Anyway, that was all over the place, but I hope that makes sense, haha. Happy to discuss more if you're interested.

ESHBG

Makes perfect sense ha ha. Very informative and thanks for the feedback!

Honda430

Aren’t these the same guys who absolutely clowned the TLX-2 Aspec and provided some here with fodder to continually denigrate the car? Now they’re giving the Type S love. What a strange turn of events.