2021 Acura TLX vs The Competition
#1161
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/
IS500 pricing is out. It starts at $57.5k. Wow, very surprised at that pricing (in a good way).
IS500 pricing is out. It starts at $57.5k. Wow, very surprised at that pricing (in a good way).
#1162
Senior Moderator
Well, this shouldn't come as any surprise:
....but notable is how much lighter it is compared to the TLX-S.
And that price range pretty much shuts down the ADM pitched by some Acura dealers.
2022 Lexus IS500 F Sport Performance
Vehicle Type: front-engine, rear-wheel-drive, 5-passenger, 4-door sedan
PRICE
Base/As Tested: $57,575/62,075
Options: Premium (heated steering wheel, 360-degree camera, power rear sunshade, parking assist, Mark Levinson speakers, triple-beam LED headlights), $4500
ENGINE
DOHC 32-valve V-8, aluminum block and heads, port and direct fuel injection
Displacement: 303 in3, 4969 cm3
Power: 472 hp @ 7100 rpm
Torque: 395 lb-ft @ 4800 rpm
TRANSMISSION
8-speed automatic
CHASSIS
Suspension, F/R: control arms/multilink
Brakes, F/R: 14.0-inch vented disc/12.7-inch vented disc
Tires: Bridgestone Potenza S001L
F: 235/40R-19 92Y
R: 265/35R-19 94Y
DIMENSIONS
Wheelbase: 110.2 in
Length: 187.3 in
Width: 72.4 in
Height: 56.5 in
Passenger Volume: 92 ft3
Trunk Volume: 11 ft3
Curb Weight: 3969 lb
C/D TEST RESULTS
60 mph: 4.3 sec
100 mph: 10.4 sec
1/4-Mile: 12.8 sec @ 112 mph
130 mph: 17.5 sec
Results above omit 1-ft rollout of 0.3 sec.
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 4.7 sec
Top Gear, 30–50 mph: 3.0 sec
Top Gear, 50–70 mph: 3.3 sec
Top Speed (gov ltd): 149 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 159 ft
Braking, 100–0 mph: 320 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft Skidpad: 0.89 g
C/D FUEL ECONOMY
Observed: 15 mpg
EPA FUEL ECONOMY (C/D EST)
Combined/City/Highway: 20/17/25 mpg
Vehicle Type: front-engine, rear-wheel-drive, 5-passenger, 4-door sedan
PRICE
Base/As Tested: $57,575/62,075
Options: Premium (heated steering wheel, 360-degree camera, power rear sunshade, parking assist, Mark Levinson speakers, triple-beam LED headlights), $4500
ENGINE
DOHC 32-valve V-8, aluminum block and heads, port and direct fuel injection
Displacement: 303 in3, 4969 cm3
Power: 472 hp @ 7100 rpm
Torque: 395 lb-ft @ 4800 rpm
TRANSMISSION
8-speed automatic
CHASSIS
Suspension, F/R: control arms/multilink
Brakes, F/R: 14.0-inch vented disc/12.7-inch vented disc
Tires: Bridgestone Potenza S001L
F: 235/40R-19 92Y
R: 265/35R-19 94Y
DIMENSIONS
Wheelbase: 110.2 in
Length: 187.3 in
Width: 72.4 in
Height: 56.5 in
Passenger Volume: 92 ft3
Trunk Volume: 11 ft3
Curb Weight: 3969 lb
C/D TEST RESULTS
60 mph: 4.3 sec
100 mph: 10.4 sec
1/4-Mile: 12.8 sec @ 112 mph
130 mph: 17.5 sec
Results above omit 1-ft rollout of 0.3 sec.
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 4.7 sec
Top Gear, 30–50 mph: 3.0 sec
Top Gear, 50–70 mph: 3.3 sec
Top Speed (gov ltd): 149 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 159 ft
Braking, 100–0 mph: 320 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft Skidpad: 0.89 g
C/D FUEL ECONOMY
Observed: 15 mpg
EPA FUEL ECONOMY (C/D EST)
Combined/City/Highway: 20/17/25 mpg
And that price range pretty much shuts down the ADM pitched by some Acura dealers.
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#1163
Senior Moderator
Just a quick side by side posting versus the TLX Type S
2021 Acura TLX Type S
Vehicle Type: front-engine, all-wheel-drive, 5-passenger, 4-door sedan
PRICE
Base/As Tested: $53,325/$54,625
Options: Summer tires, $800; Tiger Eye Pearl paint, $500
ENGINE
turbocharged and intercooled DOHC 24-valve V-6, aluminum block and heads, direct fuel injection
Displacement: 183 in3, 2997 cm3
Power: 355 hp @ 5500 rpm
Torque: 354 lb-ft @ 1400 rpm
TRANSMISSION
10-speed automatic
CHASSIS
Suspension, F/R: control arms/multilink
Brakes, F/R: 14.3-in vented disc/13.0-in disc
Tires: Pirelli P Zero PZ4
255/35R-20 97Y
DIMENSIONS
Wheelbase: 113.0 in
Length: 194.6 in
Width: 75.2 in
Height: 56.4 in
Passenger Volume: 93 ft3
Trunk Volume: 14 ft3
Curb Weight: 4201 lb
C/D TEST RESULTS
60 mph: 4.9 sec
100 mph: 12.6 sec
1/4-Mile: 13.6 sec @ 103 mph
130 mph: 24.2 sec
Results above omit 1-ft rollout of 0.3 sec.
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 5.5 sec
Top Gear, 30–50 mph: 3.3 sec
Top Gear, 50–70 mph: 4.5 sec
Top Speed (C/D est): 155 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 165 ft
Braking, 100–0 mph: 359 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft Skidpad: 0.96 g
C/D FUEL ECONOMY
Observed: 19 mpg
EPA FUEL ECONOMY
Combined/City/Highway: 21/19/24 mpg
Vehicle Type: front-engine, all-wheel-drive, 5-passenger, 4-door sedan
PRICE
Base/As Tested: $53,325/$54,625
Options: Summer tires, $800; Tiger Eye Pearl paint, $500
ENGINE
turbocharged and intercooled DOHC 24-valve V-6, aluminum block and heads, direct fuel injection
Displacement: 183 in3, 2997 cm3
Power: 355 hp @ 5500 rpm
Torque: 354 lb-ft @ 1400 rpm
TRANSMISSION
10-speed automatic
CHASSIS
Suspension, F/R: control arms/multilink
Brakes, F/R: 14.3-in vented disc/13.0-in disc
Tires: Pirelli P Zero PZ4
255/35R-20 97Y
DIMENSIONS
Wheelbase: 113.0 in
Length: 194.6 in
Width: 75.2 in
Height: 56.4 in
Passenger Volume: 93 ft3
Trunk Volume: 14 ft3
Curb Weight: 4201 lb
C/D TEST RESULTS
60 mph: 4.9 sec
100 mph: 12.6 sec
1/4-Mile: 13.6 sec @ 103 mph
130 mph: 24.2 sec
Results above omit 1-ft rollout of 0.3 sec.
Rolling Start, 5–60 mph: 5.5 sec
Top Gear, 30–50 mph: 3.3 sec
Top Gear, 50–70 mph: 4.5 sec
Top Speed (C/D est): 155 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 165 ft
Braking, 100–0 mph: 359 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft Skidpad: 0.96 g
C/D FUEL ECONOMY
Observed: 19 mpg
EPA FUEL ECONOMY
Combined/City/Highway: 21/19/24 mpg
#1164
I was expecting a starting price of 59,995 so this is a nice surprise. Already have deposits down with a few local dealerships, but no word yet on ADM from them.
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leomio2.0 (09-10-2021)
#1166
#1167
Goddamn, my man works quick! If the Type-S and CA were indicators of anything, it seems like ADMs run rampant there. I'm sure the same will be true for the NY metro area.
#1168
Yeah…I’m not expecting sticker, but I can wait it out. I don’t absolutely need a new car right away, and my company is still remote until the end of next year at the earliest. The only thing that would change the calculus would be if this was a limited run for just 1-2 model years and supply really is low.
#1169
Pretty brutal on the 'Final Thoughts', but everything he says is why I would buy the car. It's literally what I want in a car ... more about driving experience, which I was so grateful when they harped on the fact at how compliant the ride. Transmission woes really only seem to be if you use them in manual mode, so for me that would be moot.
And despite what he says, if I could get them without ADM, I'd be the first in line to get one of the 'Base' models. Literally nothing in the 'Premium' package is even remotely appealing to me. The only thing I would have to come to grips with is RWD only being in the Northeast. Then again, you have plenty of idiots who think AWD is going to be sufficient to overcome the fact that they're running Max Performance Summer tires. I can't wait to see a Type-S stuck on a slight, snowy incline with all 4 of its Y-Spokes spinning this winter.
#1170
Yeah…I’m not expecting sticker, but I can wait it out. I don’t absolutely need a new car right away, and my company is still remote until the end of next year at the earliest. The only thing that would change the calculus would be if this was a limited run for just 1-2 model years and supply really is low.
#1171
The way I see it: it's the Charger Scatpack for people who have decent credit, and want a non-shitty dealership experience, reliability, and resale value.
#1174
Senior Moderator
#1175
Car Enthusiast
Yeah, I saw the SavageGeese video this morning. So if you are single or no kids and want a super reliable sport sedan with a V8, that's the car for you. They both had that ear to ear grins when they ripped that car.
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F23A4 (09-10-2021)
#1177
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SebringSilver (09-10-2021)
#1178
Even though the rear legroom for the IS is pretty bad, the middle seat is actually more usable for a rear facing car seat than in the TLX. In both cars, the car seat fits in the space between the two front seats, so it doesn't affect front seat comfort. However, not only does the IS have a little bit more headroom, but it doesn't have a comically high center seat bottom like the TLX does, so the total vertical space in that seat is even better than the numbers would suggest. That's hugely important for getting them in and out of the seat without sliding them in horizontally (not fun when they're getting heavy) or banging their head on the ceiling. Now, if I had to fit a rear facing car seat behind the driver or passenger seat, then it's game over, but for one kid in the middle I've got no complaints.
Last edited by fiatlux; 09-10-2021 at 01:34 PM.
#1179
Senior Moderator
Watched a number of new IS500 videos and all reviewers (thus far) seem to be receiving it very well. Lexus ceated a far more viable alternative to S4 and C43 than the Acura. All that said, I can help but see its resemblance to the Toyota Camry SE from certain angles.
Great for the Camry but......
Great for the Camry but......
#1180
Burning Brakes
Absolutley no reason to buy a Type S over this if you want a Japanese car.
#1182
Watched a number of new IS500 videos and all reviewers (thus far) seem to be receiving it very well. Lexus ceated a far more viable alternative to S4 and C43 than the Acura. All that said, I can help but see its resemblance to the Toyota Camry SE from certain angles.
Great for the Camry but......
Great for the Camry but......
#1183
...except the Scat Pack is faster, brakes better, it has higher skidpad numbers, you can put two adults in the back and do a COSTCO run with it trunk... and, good credit or not, it's still a 50K+ car....it's not like there are special lenders only for Dodge and SRT products are usually excluded from financing deals....
Last edited by 4G-Lover; 09-10-2021 at 03:41 PM.
#1184
...except the Scat Pack is faster, brakes better, it has higher skidpad numbers, you can put two adults in the back and do a COSTCO run with it trunk... and, good credit or not, it's still a 50K+ car....it's not like there are special lenders only for Dodge and SRT products are usually excluded from financing deals....
#1187
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
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#1188
I'm not a MOPAR guy, I just happen to own a Trackhawk at the moment (my wife's ride, coming from a GC SRT 6.4) and I just happen to think that the Charger is a terrific sport sedan for the money.....I would not buy a Challenger since, in the same segment, the Mustang and specially the Camaro are quite better sport cars.
By the way, all the high end trims of Dodge models today sticker higher than any Acura other than the unicorn NSX.
We need to be careful at putting people is well defined boxes....just recently our good friend recently cross shopped the Durango Hellcat with the Audi SQ7.....he is definitely not subprime material....
Last edited by 4G-Lover; 09-10-2021 at 04:51 PM.
#1189
...except the Scat Pack is faster, brakes better, it has higher skidpad numbers, you can put two adults in the back and do a COSTCO run with it trunk... and, good credit or not, it's still a 50K+ car....it's not like there are special lenders only for Dodge and SRT products are usually excluded from financing deals....
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WTF.Acura (09-11-2021)
#1190
#1191
Once you get up to the 392 and Hellcat, that usually prices out those type of folks, but by god do the R/T and Scat Packs attract the payday-loan types. A couple of the rental properties I own are Section 8 in a less than desirable areas, and the amount of those cars I see around there is unbelievable. Also a lot of Infinitis....
#1192
It's not based on the price of the car. It's who they are willing to finance. How many Acura dealerships are selling cars with 96 month loans at 5% APR? Probably not many, but I know my local CDJR dealership is. No credit? Bad credit? Come on down
#1193
I don't know about your area, but in my area (pre-pandemic) dealers were selling Scat Pack Chargers for under $40K. They were being heavily discounted because not many people were buying them. I almost pulled the trigger on an F8 Green Scatpack that would have been $37K after including the "Power Dollars" discount on a car that stickered for $48K. I saw some base models that were as low as $32K after incentives. I don't think there's any better horsepower/dollar deal out there, but what stopped me from buying it was the pisspoor dealership experience I've had at multiple CDJR dealerships in the area. There is no way with a straight face you can say that the CDJR dealership experience is anywhere close to what you get at Lexus...they're almost entirely on opposite ends of the spectrum.
Heavy discounts on SRT products are definitely possible (I got my Trackhawk for 12K off MSRP, previously I got our GC SRT 6.4 for 8K off) but usually they are excluded from financing deals....no 0% on SRT/Scat Pack products
For me, as soon as I sign on the dotted line, I will never see the dealer again so I do not care.
#1194
#1195
CDJR dealer experience is absolutely awful.....but, like you said, you get a crazy amount of performance value for the money and actually pretty good quality at least on the Charger/Challenger and Grand Cherokee/Durango models (I'm saying this as a former hater of Chrysler products, I had to get rid of my 300M 20 years ago out of desperation, it was such a lemon)
Heavy discounts on SRT products are definitely possible (I got my Trackhawk for 12K off MSRP, previously I got our GC SRT 6.4 for 8K off) but usually they are excluded from financing deals....no 0% on SRT/Scat Pack products
For me, as soon as I sign on the dotted line, I will never see the dealer again so I do not care.
Heavy discounts on SRT products are definitely possible (I got my Trackhawk for 12K off MSRP, previously I got our GC SRT 6.4 for 8K off) but usually they are excluded from financing deals....no 0% on SRT/Scat Pack products
For me, as soon as I sign on the dotted line, I will never see the dealer again so I do not care.
#1196
Sure, but I don't know why you're equating Scat Pack with some high end car. Originally it was just a package on the R/T model (important distinction because insurance companies still considered it a regular R/T which would have made my premiums absurdly low compared to the SRT 392). Today I think you can spec it up to be a replacement for the SRT 392 that they no longer sell, and it's priced accordingly, but historically it was still a relatively cheap car. And as such, you can still buy it as a relatively cheap car; I'm willing to bet the distribution of Scat Pack sales still skews to the cheaper end based on how the cars on the lots around here are optioned.
#1198
.....couple of compilation of "nice" hoods in Detroit and LA.....I do not see a definite higher presence of Dodge cars....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpWNUz3P0I0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otwgkeJyuSo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpWNUz3P0I0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otwgkeJyuSo
#1199
Sure, but I don't know why you're equating Scat Pack with some high end car. Originally it was just a package on the R/T model (important distinction because insurance companies still considered it a regular R/T which would have made my premiums absurdly low compared to the SRT 392). Today I think you can spec it up to be a replacement for the SRT 392 that they no longer sell, and it's priced accordingly, but historically it was still a relatively cheap car. And as such, you can still buy it as a relatively cheap car; I'm willing to bet the distribution of Scat Pack sales still skews to the cheaper end based on how the cars on the lots around here are optioned.
The Scat Pack is not a high end car for sure but is not subprime material either...it's very expensive to feed and maintain.
According to Dodge 40% of Charger sales are V8 and almost 1/3 of total are Scat Pack/Hellcat (pre pandemic 2019 data). The Charger is one of the few sedans that did not experience a significant contraction in sales in recent years.
Last edited by 4G-Lover; 09-10-2021 at 05:42 PM.
#1200