2021+ Acura TLX & TLX TYPE S Sales Numbers
#321
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Piggy backs never effect the ECU. They plug in between the cars sensors & the ECU. The object is to send false signals to the ECU. Example the piggy back tells the ECU the boost is low so it will add more boost. Total actual boost is controlled by the piggy back lying to the ECU. As said the game might be over for the BMW engines but a number of the guys are trying to figure out if its true or not. This is pretty important to the vendors as BMW is the heart of the piggy back market.
#322
Senior Moderator
Good info. dzionny_dzionassi kicked off a dedicated discussion on this here:
https://acurazine.com/forums/second-...-s-jb4-997689/
https://acurazine.com/forums/second-...-s-jb4-997689/
#323
That really depends on the manufacture. Its only this last ECU round that BMW is said to have the ability to detect piggy backs. They could always detect flash tunes as the ECU counts anytime its reset. If the count number does not agree with their history of resets you have a problem on what will be fixed under warranty & what will not be fixed.
Piggy backs never effect the ECU. They plug in between the cars sensors & the ECU. The object is to send false signals to the ECU. Example the piggy back tells the ECU the boost is low so it will add more boost. Total actual boost is controlled by the piggy back lying to the ECU. As said the game might be over for the BMW engines but a number of the guys are trying to figure out if its true or not. This is pretty important to the vendors as BMW is the heart of the piggy back market.
Piggy backs never effect the ECU. They plug in between the cars sensors & the ECU. The object is to send false signals to the ECU. Example the piggy back tells the ECU the boost is low so it will add more boost. Total actual boost is controlled by the piggy back lying to the ECU. As said the game might be over for the BMW engines but a number of the guys are trying to figure out if its true or not. This is pretty important to the vendors as BMW is the heart of the piggy back market.
#324
iWhine S/C 6MT TL
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As for the TLX and the recent news of a "tune" available. As you said, it's too soon to know how reliable it actually is. A specific someone here made an ass backwards comment about being stupid to spend money to make your vehicle faster, yet he's all over this tune like a kid at a candy store. It's the price you pay to modify any vehicle still under factory warranty. If you don't care and own the car, then do what you want. If you're worried about it, then leave it the fuck alone.. It's a pretty simple thing. But you know as well as I, many can't help themselves and will tune it. I don't know if Acura has the ability to tell if the vehicle is tuned, but it's only a matter of time til they have the ability to do so and flag the vin.
When I was a tech for Acura, some modified vehicles came in for warranty work and for the most part, none of the modifications done caused the issue they had but the service advisors / service manager would decline the warranty work because of the modifications. Regardless of what I said for example "These aftermarket wheels didn't cause the oil leak" but to them, somehow it did. Such a fucking joke, but that's why I no longer push wrenches. I own my vehicles (paid in full) and I'm well aware that BMW can decline any warranty work. Like I said, it's the price to pay.
As a friendly suggestion, for those leasing or still making those 7 year payments, don't modify the vehicle. leave it alone or at least wait til enough time has passed and these new reflash tunes can be proven to be reliable. I wouldn't be the 1st do so.
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#325
Senior Moderator
From personal experience, every time I take either one of my BMW's in for service, the advisor calls and says "The technician did a multi-point inspection" followed by what they found, if they did and what it's due for, followed by "And also noticed that the DME has been tampered"... Yes, both of my BMW's have BM3 reflash tunes. I don't deny it either when they mention it. Regardless I still plan on extending my warranty and service packages on both vehicles. The service advisor can only do so much IF something was to go wrong and it is caused by the tune. It's really out of their hands since the report notifies BMW that the vehicle DME has been messed with.
As for the TLX and the recent news of a "tune" available. As you said, it's too soon to know how reliable it actually is. A specific someone here made an ass backwards comment about being stupid to spend money to make your vehicle faster, yet he's all over this tune like a kid at a candy store. It's the price you pay to modify any vehicle still under factory warranty. If you don't care and own the car, then do what you want. If you're worried about it, then leave it the fuck alone.. It's a pretty simple thing. But you know as well as I, many can't help themselves and will tune it. I don't know if Acura has the ability to tell if the vehicle is tuned, but it's only a matter of time til they have the ability to do so and flag the vin.
When I was a tech for Acura, some modified vehicles came in for warranty work and for the most part, none of the modifications done caused the issue they had but the service advisors / service manager would decline the warranty work because of the modifications. Regardless of what I said for example "These aftermarket wheels didn't cause the oil leak" but to them, somehow it did. Such a fucking joke, but that's why I no longer push wrenches. I own my vehicles (paid in full) and I'm well aware that BMW can decline any warranty work. Like I said, it's the price to pay.
As a friendly suggestion, for those leasing or still making those 7 year payments, don't modify the vehicle. leave it alone or at least wait til enough time has passed and these new reflash tunes can be proven to be reliable. I wouldn't be the 1st do so.
As for the TLX and the recent news of a "tune" available. As you said, it's too soon to know how reliable it actually is. A specific someone here made an ass backwards comment about being stupid to spend money to make your vehicle faster, yet he's all over this tune like a kid at a candy store. It's the price you pay to modify any vehicle still under factory warranty. If you don't care and own the car, then do what you want. If you're worried about it, then leave it the fuck alone.. It's a pretty simple thing. But you know as well as I, many can't help themselves and will tune it. I don't know if Acura has the ability to tell if the vehicle is tuned, but it's only a matter of time til they have the ability to do so and flag the vin.
When I was a tech for Acura, some modified vehicles came in for warranty work and for the most part, none of the modifications done caused the issue they had but the service advisors / service manager would decline the warranty work because of the modifications. Regardless of what I said for example "These aftermarket wheels didn't cause the oil leak" but to them, somehow it did. Such a fucking joke, but that's why I no longer push wrenches. I own my vehicles (paid in full) and I'm well aware that BMW can decline any warranty work. Like I said, it's the price to pay.
As a friendly suggestion, for those leasing or still making those 7 year payments, don't modify the vehicle. leave it alone or at least wait til enough time has passed and these new reflash tunes can be proven to be reliable. I wouldn't be the 1st do so.
#326
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A flash tune will always show up regardless of make. Anyone who tunes a car should be prepared to pay the bill. If you can't afford to pay for play leave it stock.
Easy check go on to the two major BMW forums & ask for warranty refusals. Separate any refusals including PUMA cases (cars info sent to Germany for approval) or readiness checks were the dummy did not clear the settings. There is also the JB4 specific forums https://www.n54tech.com/forums/
BTW my 2011 335is passed a PUMA check.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 01-18-2022 at 10:56 AM.
#327
You see little or no warranty refusals on any of the BMW forums including the JB4 specific one by BMS. In 11 years I had no refusals to any warranty work or failed the EPA & state safety inspection. I never took it off for work or annual EPA inspection. Just went back to Map O BMW stock & disabled the steering wheel input. Your results are out of the norm for over 30,000 units in use.
“Techline voided a turbo engine we had blown up because of missing data even though I myself couldn’t detect any faults”
Because either 2 things:
Customer blew it up, removed and clear snapshot data
Or
Blew it up, removed mod and original pcm never recorded snapshot data because of mod interference
#328
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This is from my buddy that works at Honda for the past 30 years.
“Techline voided a turbo engine we had blown up because of missing data even though I myself couldn’t detect any faults”
Because either 2 things:
Customer blew it up, removed and clear snapshot data
Or
Blew it up, removed mod and original pcm never recorded snapshot data because of mod interference
“Techline voided a turbo engine we had blown up because of missing data even though I myself couldn’t detect any faults”
Because either 2 things:
Customer blew it up, removed and clear snapshot data
Or
Blew it up, removed mod and original pcm never recorded snapshot data because of mod interference
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 01-18-2022 at 11:14 AM.
#329
Yeah I’ll just stick to aesthetic mad I guess the car as fast as it is. Son would like a faster I understand but for me it’s just fine. No I just can’t wait till they come out with an intake to give it some better sound
#330
You see little or no warranty refusals on any of the BMW forums including the JB4 specific one by BMS. In 11 years I had no refusals to any warranty work or failed the EPA & state safety inspection. I never took it off for work or annual EPA inspection. Just went back to Map O BMW stock & disabled the steering wheel input. Your results are out of the norm for over 30,000 units in use.
A flash tune will always show up regardless of make. Anyone who tunes a car should be prepared to pay the bill. If you can't afford to pay for play leave it stock.
Easy check go on to the two major BMW forums & ask for warranty refusals. Separate any refusals including PUMA cases (cars info sent to Germany for approval) or readiness checks were the dummy did not clear the settings. There is also the JB4 specific forums https://www.n54tech.com/forums/
BTW my 2011 335is passed a PUMA check.
A flash tune will always show up regardless of make. Anyone who tunes a car should be prepared to pay the bill. If you can't afford to pay for play leave it stock.
Easy check go on to the two major BMW forums & ask for warranty refusals. Separate any refusals including PUMA cases (cars info sent to Germany for approval) or readiness checks were the dummy did not clear the settings. There is also the JB4 specific forums https://www.n54tech.com/forums/
BTW my 2011 335is passed a PUMA check.
The fact of the matter is there is ALWAYS a RISK with denied warranty work due to a tune. Just because it didn’t happen to you does not mean everyone is off the hook. Once your ECU tripped, good luck with warranty.
Last edited by richii0207; 01-18-2022 at 11:35 AM.
#331
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Little implies they do refuse. I’m not here to debate, I use to be on BMW forums when I had them. I, and many others had warranty work denied due to the tunes. I had a piggyback tune I would remove before any dealer visits. Tunes are not new to me, nor anything regarding what a flash tune vs piggyback tunes or any informational material regarding what a tune is.
The fact of the matter is there is ALWAYS a RISK with denied warranty work due to a tune. Just because it didn’t happen to you does not mean everyone is off the hook. Once your ECU tripped, good luck with warranty.
The fact of the matter is there is ALWAYS a RISK with denied warranty work due to a tune. Just because it didn’t happen to you does not mean everyone is off the hook. Once your ECU tripped, good luck with warranty.
So OK will let people check the forums for themselves & see what the risk is to see if its acceptable. Remembering that only people with problems will complain those without you never hear about unless asked.
Only ones I know of that had a problem outside of you had the unit still on the car. Took the unit off but never cleared the tune or cleared the error codes including the hidden ones. Did not shut off the steering wheel controls. Did not in the case of a general visit do not do enough starts & runs to reset the readiness code. Had additional visible equipment like downpipes, Water/Methanol/Alcohol Injection, CAI, wire taps etc. I said earlier you have to be prepared to pay if you want to play.
Be interested to know what was specifically denied?
#332
Im having a little trouble keeping up here, the JB4 is a piggy back which for every previous car i had considered it on was undetectable if removed. Have things changed where they are now detectable?? We keep coming back to tunes being detectable, which of course they are but piggy backs arent tunes.
for my input, i had a VW GLi that had a seized balance shaft that was done under warrenty even though i was stage 1 unitronic. They never even mentioned that they noticed it.
for my input, i had a VW GLi that had a seized balance shaft that was done under warrenty even though i was stage 1 unitronic. They never even mentioned that they noticed it.
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BEAR-AvHistory (01-19-2022)
#333
While we're talking about boosting power numbers, it seems like the standard Honda 10AT attached to SH-AWD starts to slip around the 360wTQ mark.
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-rdx-...o-tune-997636/
Not to keep laying on the "hate" ... but I'm suspecting that the TLX-S's modifiable power ceiling is going to be markedly lower than its German competitors as well.
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-rdx-...o-tune-997636/
Not to keep laying on the "hate" ... but I'm suspecting that the TLX-S's modifiable power ceiling is going to be markedly lower than its German competitors as well.
#334
While we're talking about boosting power numbers, it seems like the standard Honda 10AT attached to SH-AWD starts to slip around the 360wTQ mark.
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-rdx-...o-tune-997636/
Not to keep laying on the "hate" ... but I'm suspecting that the TLX-S's modifiable power ceiling is going to be markedly lower than its German competitors as well.
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-rdx-...o-tune-997636/
Not to keep laying on the "hate" ... but I'm suspecting that the TLX-S's modifiable power ceiling is going to be markedly lower than its German competitors as well.
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leomio2.0 (01-19-2022)
#335
350wtq is actually a lot higher than I would have thought, since we know that the RDX pulls power in lower gears to protect the drivetrain from the full fury of 235wtq stock. Even dialing it down to 340wtq...I'm not liking the survival chances of it. I don't think it's the 10AT that is the weakest link here since the FWD Accord 10AT doesn't pull power...I'd be more concerned about the diffs for the SH-AWD system.
#336
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Im having a little trouble keeping up here, the JB4 is a piggy back which for every previous car i had considered it on was undetectable if removed. Have things changed where they are now detectable?? We keep coming back to tunes being detectable, which of course they are but piggy backs arent tunes.
for my input, i had a VW GLi that had a seized balance shaft that was done under warrenty even though i was stage 1 unitronic. They never even mentioned that they noticed it.
for my input, i had a VW GLi that had a seized balance shaft that was done under warrenty even though i was stage 1 unitronic. They never even mentioned that they noticed it.
Now this year with the 502BHP S58 the chatter on the M3/4 forum is that BMW can now detect that one even if removed was on the car. Right now it a rumor with no proof one way or another.
The way a piggy back functions it should be undetectable as the ECU does not "see" the unit only gets its output which it thinks is coming from its sensors.
Do a can "JB4's be detected" search & you will get all sorts of info some of it correct some incorrect.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 01-19-2022 at 05:24 PM.
#337
Seems a difference of opinion has cropped up with a new post. As far as I know for BMW at least a fully removed unit was not detectable. Personally never had an issue with a JB4 in 11 years. Never installed down pipes on any car but did install FMIC units. Service techs knew they were there because the worked on a coolant issue in my secondary radiator which sits next to the FMIC.
Now this year with the 502BHP S58 the chatter on the M3/4 forum is that BMW can now detect that one even if removed was on the car. Right now it a rumor with no proof one way or another.
The way a piggy back functions it should be undetectable as the ECU does not "see" the unit only gets its output which it thinks is coming from its sensors.
Do a can "JB4's be detected" search & you will get all sorts of info some of it correct some incorrect.
Now this year with the 502BHP S58 the chatter on the M3/4 forum is that BMW can now detect that one even if removed was on the car. Right now it a rumor with no proof one way or another.
The way a piggy back functions it should be undetectable as the ECU does not "see" the unit only gets its output which it thinks is coming from its sensors.
Do a can "JB4's be detected" search & you will get all sorts of info some of it correct some incorrect.
That was just the first BMW, next one started going downhill before warranty expired and traded it in for another one. 3rd BMW started giving issues towards end of warranty expiration, which was traded for an Acura. This answers your question in the other thread as to why I stay away from BMW now. Those next 2 BMWs were 100% stock and driven by the wife who is not into speed.
It is not a rumor. If BMW can detect a piggyback tune 15 years years ago, detection should be easier for them nowadays.
Last edited by richii0207; 01-19-2022 at 05:48 PM.
#338
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Detecting alterations in ECU was always possible with BMW. Blown engine back in 2007. Warranty denied due to ECU modifications detected when I had a piggyback tune that I would always remove before service.(ECU was sent to corporate for data logs which confirmed car ran outside OEM parameters). They knew the PSI and revs at time of blowing. After the warranty for the new engine expired, everything started going south, first the water pump, thermostat, PCV within valve cover, crank pulley leaking, carbon buildup immediately, leaking head gasket. Was not abused other than a WOT pull once every other week.
That was just the first BMW, next one started going downhill before warranty expired and traded it in for another one. 3rd BMW started giving issues towards end of warranty expiration, which was traded for an Acura. This answers your question in the other thread as to why I stay away from BMW now. Those next 2 BMWs were 100% stock and driven by the wife who is not into speed. It is not a rumor. If BMW can detect a piggyback tune 15 years years ago, detection should be easier for them nowadays.
That was just the first BMW, next one started going downhill before warranty expired and traded it in for another one. 3rd BMW started giving issues towards end of warranty expiration, which was traded for an Acura. This answers your question in the other thread as to why I stay away from BMW now. Those next 2 BMWs were 100% stock and driven by the wife who is not into speed. It is not a rumor. If BMW can detect a piggyback tune 15 years years ago, detection should be easier for them nowadays.
Was the JB4 the only thing you had on the car? No down pipes, exhaust, muffler delete etc & you were able to get enough boost to blow it up? I was running 20psi on a 15PSI engine in 2011 & it never exploded not even once. Did you set the safety boost limit that shuts the JB4 off & at what PSI? RPM takes care of itself as fuel is pulled in a soft shut down then a hard shutdown at red line.
Blown engines are as rare as hens teeth. Back then the BMS factory test car had over 86,000 miles on it. First damage it had about 92,000 miles was the transmission slipping. Still had a top time at Shift S3ctor 1/2 mile. The System works by not modifying the ECU. The ECU does know the revs but does not know the true boost.
So this does not go to debate Back to google - "how many engines have blown up since 2007 with a JB4?"
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 01-19-2022 at 08:02 PM.
#339
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While we're talking about boosting power numbers, it seems like the standard Honda 10AT attached to SH-AWD starts to slip around the 360wTQ mark.
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-rdx-...o-tune-997636/
Not to keep laying on the "hate" ... but I'm suspecting that the TLX-S's modifiable power ceiling is going to be markedly lower than its German competitors as well.
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-rdx-...o-tune-997636/
Not to keep laying on the "hate" ... but I'm suspecting that the TLX-S's modifiable power ceiling is going to be markedly lower than its German competitors as well.
Acura wants to stay within its current pricing package so what you get is what you get. The 10 speed is more than adequate for what they offer in power & meets their pricing objectives. Some one or ones will have to push it to see what the limits are. Would expect if there is an R the transmission will have a higher torque limit with higher pricing to go along with it..
For tuning I think a light tune as currently offered by BMS is pretty safe. Risk is its an all new engine & transmission so if there are any faults they will be found quickly & no do not expect them to become hand grenades. Most all of these engines when damaged have eaten supporting parts turbos etc. Engine case, pistons, heads valves etc stay intact.
To be fair to Acura there is no free lunch, M cars have limits based on price. The base M3/4 6MT is limited to 473BHP while the intermediate priced 503BHP RWD 8ZF is limited to a 2nd gear Launch The top priced AWD 503 gets a 1st gear Launch
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leomio2.0 (01-19-2022)
#340
Just to be clear you blew up the motor took the car someplace removed the JB4 deleted the hidden & normal fault codes. Then had it towed to a BMW dealer. They took it in because of the damage they had to report to Germany. The car then failed a Puma data test in Germany because of the JB4 the same test that I passed relating to a fuel injection issue on a JB4 car. That correct?
Was the JB4 the only thing you had on the car? No down pipes, exhaust, muffler delete etc & you were able to get enough boost to blow it up? I was running 20psi on a 15PSI engine in 2011 & it never exploded not even once. Did you set the safety boost limit that shuts the JB4 off & at what PSI? RPM takes care of itself as fuel is pulled in a soft shut down then a hard shutdown at red line.
Blown engines are as rare as hens teeth. Back then the BMS factory test car had over 86,000 miles on it. First damage it had about 92,000 miles was the transmission slipping. Still had a top time at Shift S3ctor 1/2 mile. The System works by not modifying the ECU. The ECU does know the revs but does not know the true boost.
So this does not go to debate Back to google - "how many engines have blown up since 2007 with a JB4?"
Was the JB4 the only thing you had on the car? No down pipes, exhaust, muffler delete etc & you were able to get enough boost to blow it up? I was running 20psi on a 15PSI engine in 2011 & it never exploded not even once. Did you set the safety boost limit that shuts the JB4 off & at what PSI? RPM takes care of itself as fuel is pulled in a soft shut down then a hard shutdown at red line.
Blown engines are as rare as hens teeth. Back then the BMS factory test car had over 86,000 miles on it. First damage it had about 92,000 miles was the transmission slipping. Still had a top time at Shift S3ctor 1/2 mile. The System works by not modifying the ECU. The ECU does know the revs but does not know the true boost.
So this does not go to debate Back to google - "how many engines have blown up since 2007 with a JB4?"
This was all started with a statement in which you specifically said that piggyback tunes are safe because they can NEVER be detected, which is false.
#341
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Usually the ECU data dump is transmitted to Germany for a major warranty case or something unique. At least mine was it was under the unique cases. The ECU was never removed from the car.
Blown engine back in 2007. Warranty denied due to ECU modifications detected when I had a piggyback tune that I would always remove before service.(ECU was sent to corporate for data logs which confirmed car ran outside OEM parameters).
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 01-19-2022 at 09:16 PM.
#342
Just noticed this as have not heard of them doing this before.
Usually the ECU data dump is transmitted to Germany for a major warranty case or something unique. At least mine was it was under the unique cases. The ECU was never removed from the car.
BTW were you 17 years old when you blew up a new BMW? Must have made your fathers day.
Usually the ECU data dump is transmitted to Germany for a major warranty case or something unique. At least mine was it was under the unique cases. The ECU was never removed from the car.
BTW were you 17 years old when you blew up a new BMW? Must have made your fathers day.
Last edited by richii0207; 01-19-2022 at 09:26 PM.
#343
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BTW you still maintain they took your ECU & sent it to Germany to test?
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 01-20-2022 at 12:33 AM.
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#344
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That is correct. Didn’t you also mention that you remove your tunes prior to dealer visits? But if you are saying that BMW will never know if you had modified the ECU, you are wrong. That is all I am saying. I did not mean to derail from the topic at hand.
This was all started with a statement in which you specifically said that piggyback tunes are safe because they can NEVER be detected, which is false.
This was all started with a statement in which you specifically said that piggyback tunes are safe because they can NEVER be detected, which is false.
#345
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Let's go back to the topic and keep this thread clean. We want to keep this thread dedicated to Sales numbers. There are plenty of other treads to discuss mods.
Tnx
Tnx
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BEAR-AvHistory (01-21-2022)
#346
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MarcoTLX (02-02-2022)
#349
I wonder if TLX resources are being shuffled over to MDX production.
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#351
Senior Moderator
My dealer received their first TLX in weeks just recently. A rare base model at that.
#353
Three Wheelin'
Not to be doom and gloom here but I think the TLX is going to be all but dead soon:
- The sedan market continues to tank, some brands don't even make them anymore.
- The TLX wasn't a top seller as it was and if there's none to buy and people need a car now, by the time production returns they'll be even less interest because the purchases have been made.
- It's an odd vehicle as it was: bigger but not more useable, same odd trims forcing you to choose between luxury or sporty...
- The Integra will be out before we know it and the interior is nothing like the rest of the Acura lineup and looks like a Civic. Yes, it's smaller but with the hatchback it's far more practical. Point being maybe Acura will take a whole new direction with sedans if they keep them around.
- By the time TLX production gets back to normal levels we may be knocking on the door of the MMC. Are they really going to dump resources into that?
- Acura is moving to EV and that will need to come sooner than later judging by competitors (I think skipping hybrids is a missed opportunity and the hybrid MDX and RLX were neat vehicles).
#354
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Two things. The sales chart is meaningless because you can't sell what you don't have or can't deliver. TLX will sell when they have cars to sell. Don't think its the kind of car people will wait 6 months for.
Honda, Dealers, Salesman all make out diverting any & all resources into the MDX line. Its a cash cow for them. Like regular full line dealers Pickups & SUV's are what you want to sell as they have the highest margins. They are also in the greatest demand category. Win, Win.
Honda, Dealers, Salesman all make out diverting any & all resources into the MDX line. Its a cash cow for them. Like regular full line dealers Pickups & SUV's are what you want to sell as they have the highest margins. They are also in the greatest demand category. Win, Win.
#355
#356
Burning Brakes
Not to be doom and gloom here but I think the TLX is going to be all but dead soon:
- The Integra will be out before we know it and the interior is nothing like the rest of the Acura lineup and looks like a Civic. Yes, it's smaller but with the hatchback it's far more practical.
Just sayin.
![2 Cents](https://acurazine.com/forums/images/smilies/2cents.gif)
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ESHBG (02-03-2022)
#357
Acura is and always has been at the mercy of Honda. The reason they never got a RWD car (outside of the NSX) or a V8 is because Honda never made one. The reason the Integra looks so much like the Civic inside and out is because they didn't have the budget to make it different. And now, because Honda doesn't have a viable EV or PHEV product, Acura doesn't have one either.
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#358
Senior Moderator
Eh, with the exception of the DC5, they were all available as a 4dr sedan or 5dr hatch. Besides, two door coupes are largely unpopular these days which is why there's no longer an Accord or Civic coupe. (Personally, I'm indifferent to an Integra coupe and would much prefer a CLX if executed correctly...which is highly subjective with this brand.)
#359
Burning Brakes
But other normal brands, and all Premium brands ... not so much .. NSX, Mustang, Challenger, Corvette, Camaro, Supra, BMW coupes, Audi coupes, Porsche 911 & 718, etc.
Some families own 2-3 different kinds of cars.
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MarcoTLX (02-03-2022)