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Once that happens, what's the point of having sales reps. They hardly know their products from most well educated folks. Save consumers money from commission and just push sales online through a system like Tesla. Less chance of mistakes that way too
Regarding TLX sales of only 653, something seems off. Accord's numbers is not that off in comparison. And the pieces they share should be similar. Not like the Accord has way less tech for chips.
On one hand, making Accords might be more profitable if they're able to make more of them using the same number of chips they would need to make fewer TLXs.
On the other hand, I would not be surprised at all if Honda "sacrificed" Acura in order to ensure that the main brand remains strong even if the unit economics says making more TLXs makes sense. Acura has always been a second-class citizen in Honda's eyes and never got the full support and investment it needed to reach its full potential.
Tellurides and Mavericks may be worth the ADM when compared to what else you could buy on the market. $10K ADM for a Type S? It might be a good value at $54K, but that completely vanishes if you can buy an M340i for the same price (or less).
Agreed. Most recent comparison (above) notwithstanding, the Type S falls off my radar at the same price point if similarly optioned.
I was very disappointed with TLX sales numbers but after seeing A4, I think the TLX is doing pretty good
TLX: 26,100 units (+20% compared to 2020)
A4: 16,263 units (-11% compared to 2020)
TLX maintains 3rd position which isn't bad considering the price of the new TLX is much higher than the 2020 model. The price of the TLX is not far from an A4, but Acura sold 10,000 more TLX compared to Audi A4.
But it could be all chip shortage and may be Audi focused on their EV lineup rathe than combustion engines.
I was very disappointed with TLX sales numbers but after seeing A4, I think the TLX is doing pretty good
TLX: 26,100 units (+20% compared to 2020)
A4: 16,263 units (-11% compared to 2020)
TLX maintains 3rd position which isn't bad considering the price of the new TLX is much higher than the 2020 model. The price of the TLX is not far from an A4, but Acura sold 10,000 more TLX compared to Audi A4.
But it could be all chip shortage and may be Audi focused on their EV lineup rathe than combustion engines.
i think the a5 also eats a lot of a4 sales, its just a better looking car especially since they changed the head lights on the A4, it went from looking classy Sharp and attractive to a jumbled mess in the front end really quick. I was so disappointed when the changed the headlights of that car. just killed it for me.
They hardly know their products from most well educated folks.
The Acura salesman did pretty good for us, on 2021 TLX-2.0T info and features. There was a few things I knew (more than him) but he welcomed the extra knowledge. It was the usual excuse "well, this is a whole-new model". And in his defense, these were the first cars to reach dealer in 2020, and they are the only Acura dealer in town.
At our Audi dealer they do it different. They have teams of two. A Salesman and a Product Specialist (that helps you pick the right car model, trim, and options). Our Product Specialist was really good and knew all the current Audi vehicles, features, and options (even the e-Trons). We met him buying the wife's Q5-e. I was so impressed, we requested his assistance when it was time to buy my car.
i think the a5 also eats a lot of a4 sales, its just a better looking car especially since they changed the head lights on the A4, it went from looking classy Sharp and attractive to a jumbled mess in the front end really quick. I was so disappointed when the changed the headlights of that car. just killed it for me.
I do agree with you to some extent. But before I put these numbers, I went and checked the A5 sales numbers as well. Even if you combine both cars, A4 and A5, still Audi sold only 33-44K units, which is far from being impressive. BMW sold 50K units of 3 series and Lexus sold 24K units of IS. That said, I think it's a commination of few things:
- Chip shortage which applies to all brands.
- EV models in Audi's case, I think they are focusing more in that segment.
- Last but not least, just the sedan market is slowly shrinking.
The Acura salesman did pretty good for us, on 2021 TLX-2.0T info and features. There was a few things I knew (more than him) but he welcomed the extra knowledge. It was the usual excuse "well, this is a whole-new model". And in his defense, these were the first cars to reach dealer in 2020, and they are the only Acura dealer in town.
At our Audi dealer they do it different. They have teams of two. A Salesman and a Product Specialist (that helps you pick the right car model, trim, and options). Our Product Specialist was really good and knew all the current Audi vehicles, features, and options (even the e-Trons). We met him buying the wife's Q5-e. I was so impressed, we requested his assistance when it was time to buy my car.
Actually, At Acura dealer in Canada there are two teams as well. First the salesman helped me with the purchase and on the delivery date, the salesman introduced me to a product specialist or whatever you want to call, and she was very knowledgeable. She was very detailed and was trying to explain me the A/C and all that. I politely told her, you can skip this. I know it well. Overall, I was very happy with pre and post sale.
i think the a5 also eats a lot of a4 sales, its just a better looking car especially since they changed the head lights on the A4, it went from looking classy Sharp and attractive to a jumbled mess in the front end really quick. I was so disappointed when the changed the headlights of that car. just killed it for me.
This 100%!
The current A4 is easily the blandest generation. The B5-B7 were all great looking and got progressively better with each redesign. The B8 looked fine, but the B9 is way too conservative and the facelift just doubled down on that. While Audis have always had relatively reserved styling imho the primary selling point over the German/Japanese/Cadillac competition was their extremely handsome and meticulous designs, even after they pioneered the "vertical" trapezoid grille. I'm not a fan of hatchbacks generally but if I was shopping Audi there would literally be no contest between the S5 SB and the S4, no matter what the price premium/performance penalty was.
The A6 is really the only Audi sedan that looks remotely as good as its predecessors and yet it's still a step back. I saw an S6 the other day and literally could not believe it was an S car. The styling was extremely conservative down to the wheel design. Meanwhile the A8 went from, in my eyes, the most handsome modern German sedan in the 90's and 00's to weird (D4) and bland (D5). I thought I liked the e-tron GT until I saw the Taycan which is farbetter looking and waaay more popular from what I've seen.
Audi also ruined the R8. The TT looks fine but doesn't touch the looks of the original but I suspect it's likely to be discontinued after this gen.
The Dodge Challenger was the best-selling muscle car in the U.S. in 2021, ending the Ford Mustang's streak that started in 2015.
Dodge delivered 54,314 Challengers to customers last year, which was a 3% increase over 2020, while Ford sold 52,414 Mustang coupes and convertibles to record a 14.2% decline and the worst performance in the model's history.
The Dodge Challenger was the best-selling muscle car in the U.S. in 2021, ending the Ford Mustang's streak that started in 2015.
Dodge delivered 54,314 Challengers to customers last year, which was a 3% increase over 2020, while Ford sold 52,414 Mustang coupes and convertibles to record a 14.2% decline and the worst performance in the model's history.
...yet will never sound as good as a Coyote V8 nor look as good as the S550!! Not a domestic car fan but that 5.0 catches my eye EVERY time.
...yet will never sound as good as a Coyote V8 nor look as good as the S550!! Not a domestic car fan but that 5.0 catches my eye EVERY time.
Yeah love my 5.0L Coyote cross plain when its into full howl at 7,300RPH its voice makes a major change at 3300/3500rpm. Many many people prefer the Ferrari like sound of the 5.2L Voodoo flat plain version makes at 8,500. DOHC V8's are a special kind of beast that loves to get let lose.
Regarding the S550 - Think that MB is the pick of the litter within mass produced car brands but I just don't care for the styling on most. Had an E class in the UK when I lived there.
On one hand, making Accords might be more profitable if they're able to make more of them using the same number of chips they would need to make fewer TLXs.
On the other hand, I would not be surprised at all if Honda "sacrificed" Acura in order to ensure that the main brand remains strong even if the unit economics says making more TLXs makes sense. Acura has always been a second-class citizen in Honda's eyes and never got the full support and investment it needed to reach its full potential.
Still, doesn't make sense to use the limited # of chips on the lower margin ILX; guess another possibility is that Acura had a bunch of ILX's sitting around which finally got sold.
The Dodge Challenger was the best-selling muscle car in the U.S. in 2021, ending the Ford Mustang's streak that started in 2015.
Dodge delivered 54,314 Challengers to customers last year, which was a 3% increase over 2020, while Ford sold 52,414 Mustang coupes and convertibles to record a 14.2% decline and the worst performance in the model's history.
Main reason CUVs/SUVs have gotten more popular is the greater utility of the form factor, so never understood why automakers try to fight that by going the other way with their sedans/coupes.
Main reason why the current gen Camaro sales have been a failure is because the rear seats are basically unusable (being the best handling Camaro isn't going to make up for that for the majority of buyers).
Despite its age and porky weight, the Challenger keeps chugging along as it has the best rear seat accommodation among the Pony cars.
Actually, At Acura dealer in Canada there are two teams as well. First the salesman helped me with the purchase and on the delivery date, the salesman introduced me to a product specialist or whatever you want to call, and she was very knowledgeable. She was very detailed and was trying to explain me the A/C and all that. I politely told her, you can skip this. I know it well. Overall, I was very happy with pre and post sale.
Yes, two teams indeed.
The first team is to sell you the Honda/Acura vehicle, and the 2nd team is to try hard to rip you off by selling you unnecessary stuffs such as paint protection, undercoating, lost key fob, dent/ding repairs, etc.
The first team is to sell you the Honda/Acura vehicle, and the 2nd team is to try hard to rip you off by selling you unnecessary stuffs such as paint protection, undercoating, lost key fob, dent/ding repairs, etc.
Well, if you count my other "new buddy" (my Audi dealer's finance guy ... got the same one both times) yeah 3 guy teams . I guess I can see why some people have issues with these guys.
Personally, first I listen to their offers. Then, I just buy what I want and decline the rest.
Well, if you count my other "new buddy" (my Audi dealer's finance guy ... got the same one both times) yeah 3 guy teams . I guess I can see why some people have issues with these guys.
Personally, first I listen to their offers. Then, I just buy what I want and decline the rest.
When I already knew exactly what I wanted on my new car, it became a torture listening to them trying real hard to sell me their offers which, when purchased in outside shops, would only cost 1/2 of their prices.
The first team is to sell you the Honda/Acura vehicle, and the 2nd team is to try hard to rip you off by selling you unnecessary stuffs such as paint protection, undercoating, lost key fob, dent/ding repairs, etc.
You got unlucky! No body forced me to buy anything and it was pure product session. As far the finance director goes, yes he did offer me some extras and again I said, I want to close this deal without any extended warranty and etc. and he did not say a word. Believe me I have seen worst. I deal with two Acura dealers in Montreal. I rate both of them 9/10. Professional, knowledgeable and awesome facilities.
The most BS I ever heard was from Genesis rep, who came to my place to test drive the GV70 ahahaha! The guy tells me, "you have to sign asap the contract as I have a massive lineup of clients that are waiting to get their GV70. Most of my clients are leaving Porsche Macan and buying Genesis." LMAO!
I purchased the tire/wheel protection pkg on my last three MDXs. Actually had to use the plan while on road trips in my old 20 and 17 MDXs. Both times just managed to hobble to a local Acura dealer (Apple Acura near Asheville NC and AutoNation Acura in Sanford Florida) and they just worked it out with my home dealer and Allstate, having me on my way an hour or so later. I'll probably keep purchasing this plan going forward.
Aside from that, pass on all those other product pitches.
2021 Sales numbers are out:
BMW 3 Series: 49,458
MB C Class: 30,815
TLX: 26,100
I hope I got my numbers right Still impressive as I mentioned before that the new TLX costs much more than the previous gen with smaller engine, which people used to opt in.
2021 Sales numbers are out:
BMW 3 Series: 49,458
MB C Class: 30,815
TLX: 26,100
I hope I got my numbers right Still impressive as I mentioned before that the new TLX costs much more than the previous gen with smaller engine, which people used to opt in.
2021 Sales numbers are out:
BMW 3 Series: 49,458
MB C Class: 30,815
TLX: 26,100
I hope I got my numbers right Still impressive as I mentioned before that the new TLX costs much more than the previous gen with smaller engine, which people used to opt in.
Not bad at all. I guess 26,100 people don't give a shit about the small space in the back.
The 3 series has always been the sales leader in its vehicle class. The benchmark, one might say.
Those are fun cars too, but money pits after warranty expires. At least for the last few BMWs I’ve had. The peace of mind for reliability is what tips the scales for Acura or Lexus. Can’t have it all I suppose
You got unlucky! No body forced me to buy anything and it was pure product session. As far the finance director goes, yes he did offer me some extras and again I said, I want to close this deal without any extended warranty and etc. and he did not say a word. Believe me I have seen worst. I deal with two Acura dealers in Montreal. I rate both of them 9/10. Professional, knowledgeable and awesome facilities.
The most BS I ever heard was from Genesis rep, who came to my place to test drive the GV70 ahahaha! The guy tells me, "you have to sign asap the contract as I have a massive lineup of clients that are waiting to get their GV70. Most of my clients are leaving Porsche Macan and buying Genesis." LMAO!
My 22 had all season mats, wheel locks and splash guards tacked on but I ended up selling the splash guards as they weren't installed yet. The finance guy tried selling me a third party extended warranty over the acura care but I told him I wanted acura care and that's what I ended up with 7/120k and I also got gap and wheel and tire protection. I plan on keeping this car for a while so why not.
The 3 series has always been the sales leader in its vehicle class. The benchmark, one might say.
I always say that the BMW 3 series is the benchmark and we agree or disagree. That car is the King of the Jungle for years! No matter what people say, manufacturing always want to compare their sedan to the 3 series.
I am actually happy for them as BMW gives people that want power and driving dynamics with a cost. And if you are fine with the maintenance cost. Then even better. Enjoy!
Definitely not lol! And definitely 10K customers opted for the slower car ! Or may be Acura cooked the numbers LMAO!
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmskiView Post
Not bad at all. I guess 26,100 people don't give a shit about the small space in the back.
Does not work that way. Most people buy what they like & can afford. Using the same logic as you guys did, 80,273 wanted more space in back & about 30,000 out of 80,000 opted for the slower car
Reality is nobody really knows what motivates people to buy specific things. If we did there would be no need for marketing departments trying to figure that out. Just give the people what we "know" they want. Acura just knew that people wanted the 4G body style & BMW just knew that people wanted piggy snout. Did not go well for the 4G body & piggy's fate is in the hands of the buyers.
I always say that the BMW 3 series is the benchmark and we agree or disagree. That car is the King of the Jungle for years! No matter what people say, manufacturing always want to compare their sedan to the 3 series.
I am actually happy for them as BMW gives people that want power and driving dynamics with a cost. And if you are fine with the maintenance cost. Then even better. Enjoy!
A lot of the folks buying the 3 series 4T models could care less about how they perform. They leased/purchased the vehicle simply for brand cachet.
Acura just knew that people wanted the 4G body style & BMW just knew that people wanted piggy snout.
Reminds me of this Jack Donaghy quote "Sometimes, you have to change things (that are perfectly good) just to make them your own". Or, change for the sake of change.
Does not work that way. Most people buy what they like & can afford. Using the same logic as you guys did, 80,273 wanted more space in back & about 30,000 out of 80,000 opted for the slower car
Reality is nobody really knows what motivates people to buy specific things. If we did there would be no need for marketing departments trying to figure that out. Just give the people what we "know" they want. Acura just knew that people wanted the 4G body style & BMW just knew that people wanted piggy snout. Did not go well for the 4G body & piggy's fate is in the hands of the buyers.
I don’t disagree.
People buy what they like more than what they can afford (unfortunately). Today the cost of borrowing is extremely cheap. As we all know everyone is living on credit. People get what they think satisfy them. Now, I am sure you saw and read many comments in the last 12 months showing that the TLX isn’t a good car and won’t sell because it’s slow, small and heavy. But on the other hand, the TLX actually is doing pretty good if you compare it to the competitors. Without giving each other a headache, The TLX is selling pretty well, might not be “wow”. But considering the cost of the new TLX which is pretty high and close to the Germans, Acura was able to built a car that people are willing to pay and get it.
I have been saying this 95% of people don’t give a sh1t about 0-60 or 0-80. The small percentage of buyers that care about 0-60 can go and buy a BMW
Not bad at all. I guess 26,100 people don't give a shit about the small space in the back.
But considering some 3 Series sales being cannibalized by the 4 Series GC (BMW sold around 23k 4 Series last year, figure around half of that being the GC) and the TLX supposedly being the successor to both the TSX and TLX, not as good put into that context.
A lot of the folks buying the 3 series 4T models could care less about how they perform. They leased/purchased the vehicle simply for brand cachet.
Why did they then not buy/lease a TLX or TLX-TypeS instead & saved a few hundred dollars a month? My own choices are buy if I will be keeping it a while, 330 10 years, 135is 9 years, Z4 M40i 2 years so far, M4C 1 month so far. Lease cars I intend to turn over in 3 to 4 years 335is, 340, 440.
I don’t disagree.
But considering the cost of the new TLX which is pretty high and close to the Germans, Acura was able to built a car that people are willing to pay and get it.
Bottom line is the German cars cost more & the TLX only sold a shade more than 50% of the 3 series alone. If you count in the 4 series @ 22,938 which used to be included in the 3 series number the 3/4 series sold 72,393. Think about this, the Piggy Snout sold 22,938 against TLX TLX-TypeS 26,100 cars. The Piggy aka Buckey Beaver came pretty close to the TLX, TLX-S all by itself, a little more than 3,000 cars short
Originally Posted by Tony Pac
I have been saying this 95% of people don’t give a sh1t about 0-60 or 0-80. The small percentage of buyers that care about 0-60 can go and buy a BMW
Agree, Many don't care about exact numbers but the image is still there on specific brands. Image sells cars.
I expect 95% of the people don't even know what's under the hood beside Motor. What does rattle around in a lot of bimmer brains that are clueless is BMW = Fast, BMW = Luxury. People that know what's under the hood, the 5 to 10% & want performance will by the BMW M340/M440/Z4M40/M3/M4 because they know its fast & are not so interested in the luxury part.
Most all of the full M series & a good part of the MXXX series are bought by knowledgeable performance people. Totally different take on cars vs the average buyer. Think this 2022 M3 is an example but its not the only one. Some of these cars are still sea sick from the boat ride & have already been modified.
Personally so far away from break-in numbers I have only made some mods but just to unlock from features like increasing the soft touch blinker from 3 to 5 blinks, activating rapid flashing brake light on high G stops, reprogramed the laser headlights to Euro standards from USA standards & deleted all the warnings about don't watch videos while driving etc that come on at startup.
His comment was.
"Yes, cutting the carpet on my $90k+ plus car and then drilling holes was cringeworthy but hey, you only live once right!"
BTY His rear seat room really sucks
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 01-08-2022 at 11:10 PM.
But considering some 3 Series sales being cannibalized by the 4 Series GC (BMW sold around 23k 4 Series last year, figure around half of that being the GC) and the TLX supposedly being the successor to both the TSX and TLX, not as good put into that context.
In a sales presentation that was made before the release of the TLX-2 Acura was targeting 30,000 for the first year sales target. Taking into consideration the lack of inventory in the second half of the year they came in very close to target. I'd think the bonuses are still going to get paid.
01-05-2022, 12:13 PM
