Originally Posted by Rocketsfan

But this is just what I'm arguing. Why does having to take responsibility only come in extreme cases? Does someone have to die before it's Honda/Acura's fault? Is that the only scenario where someone has to pay? All Volkswagen did was fib a little, right? This isn't like no one at Acura knew this tranny was a dud when it left the factory. At least if it was something that happens years down the road, I could forgive them.



And all I said in response is that we aren't naïve. We understand that. I understand Acura doesn't want to pay for their own screw-up and are looking for ways to minimize their losses. It's understandable. I'm just saying ... it's wrong.



On at least 3 occasions, the car failed to accelerate from a dead stop when I pressed the gas. I lifted my foot off the pedal and pushed down again and it accelerated normally. On one of those occasions I was trying to cross a busy street and could've gotten t-boned because of the delayed response. On another of those occasions I nearly accelerated into my fence because I pushed the accelerator down further thinking I hadn't pushed it enough. That's not what I call "working". I can put up with the clunky transmission -- apparently I have to, but I would not call every situation an example of how the transmission "does work". Not to mention, I've driven a TLX in which the transmission DOES work as intended, at least as far as that day I had it, anyway.



Hell, no. That's exactly what Acura wants. I think I've convinced 2 people not to buy a TLX. I'll keep singing Acura's "praises" while I own this car. I don't buy cars every 3 or 4 years. I pay cash for them and drive them until the proverbial wheels fall off. This will probably be the first car I get rid of "far too early", but it won't be for another few years until the warranty is up.

After being a fan of this company and waiting years for this car to be released (through delays -- wonder what that big delay was about? hmmm...), only to get stiff-armed and being provided every stupid nonsensical excuse as to why the transmission is "normal"? Then to have idiot dealerships act like beggars asking me to choose all the options "on the right side of the survey" because they want to get good grades? lol.

If people here "just go buy another car", this forum is no different than many of the Caddy forums I used to frequent. Wheels flying off the car, dragging mufflers, seats flying out the window (ok, I'm exaggerating) and people acting like "eh, whatever... I'll be out of this lease in another couple of years". Honda/Acura was supposed to be about reliability or at least backing up their cars. Obviously they're not doing that for everybody and that's what got me pissed. For some of us, all we get is Precision Crafted BS from dealerships and corporate with each pointing the finger at the other saying "it's their fault".

In all fairness, the transmission post-a-myriad-of-software-updates shifts better now, but no, it doesn't shift like a properly functioning TLX transmission. It's gone from "weird shifting" to "unbearable shifting" to "well, it's improved" status. Go Acura.

Anywho, didn't mean to get on anybody's nerves with the post. I'll let everyone get back to discussing the hard shifting normal transmissions.

Originally Posted by rgpolson

These transmission issues are more than just a glitch. This transmission was not ready for prime time and so far software "workarounds" have not made the affected transmissions comparable with the swapped-out transmission or the 2016 transmission.

The transmission has gone from just plain bad in affected 2015 models to acceptable (but certainly not good) in the 2016. The 2016 is still plagued with "glitches" and just poor design.

The "rolling stop" glitch persists in the 2016 model. And sloppy, slow downshifts persist. The second is a by product of the transmission having to sequential downshift and going from 9-4 or 8-4 just takes way too long. The latest update for the MDX apparently made a change to let the transmission skip a gear or two in downshifts, but I can find nothing that states this change has been made for the TLX.

Acura has been pretty moronic dealing with the problem. Denials, half-truths, etc. I tild my ACR I was plenty willing to work with them. I told them I was even willing to beta-test software versions. No response.

I figure I ate about 5-6k to get from a bad transmission to an acceptable transmission.

And Honda/Acura continues to deny issue. Complete tone deafness.

- A ten time Honda/Acura buyer, now a former Honda/Acura buyer

Originally Posted by Mike_TX

I'm not arguing, but I've never had a car that DIDN'T have some kind of glitch. And I've had some nice cars - 2 different Lexus LS400's, a Lexus LS460, a Lexus RX300 and an IS350, a BMW 740i and 3 different 540i's, 2 different Cadillac STS's, an Infiniti M56, 2 different Acura RL's, an MDX and an RDX, and on and on.

Every single one of them had something about it that wasn't "right". I guess maybe I'm too much of a perfectionist, but over the years I've learned to accept some things because I'm an old guy now and I don't think the perfect car is going to ever be made.

And all in all, the TLX has a lot going for it, so I'm going to run with it until I'm ready to try something else. Maybe an Audi next time.

.
.

Originally Posted by KeithL

this transmission at times borders on being a safety issue.

Originally Posted by neil0311

I've had my TLX (V6 AWD) for about 2 months and 1,500 miles. I've opened a case with ACR but honestly, since the last software update and TCU reprogram, the issue has been very slight. The hard shifts from 2-3 gear still exist, but they're intermittant and transient.

I can see the dealer pushing back more now than they did when they did the 15-040 TSB. Is the tranny prefect, no, but not sure replacement is warranted, especially if another software update will refine things further.

Not sure I want to give a new car to the dealer to rip apart when I have 6 years and 70K miles to see if the issue gets worse.

Originally Posted by kchemist

What is this last software upgrade? Do they have another update other than 15-040.

Originally Posted by neil0311

I asked about and brought in 15-040 but don't know if something new came out. They said they used the "latest" version for my vehicle.

How can I tell?

Originally Posted by neil0311

Maybe it depends on the vehicle and there may be variances based on VIN, but mine has never, ever come close to what I would list as a "safety issue" or anything like it. To me it's maybe an annoyance and really just a quirk.

Again, not minimizing the pain of others, but relaying that mine (built 9/14) isn't even close to the safety edge.

Originally Posted by Vlke

I wouldn't say mine is a safety issue either but that doesn't mean it's not a problem. I'm able to mimic the problem like 90% of the time in Sports+ and that's how I tend to demo it to the field rep. It's a lot more noticeable in Sports+ that any other mode. I'm just wondering if they'll say something like oh it's normal for Sports+ to have a bit of a jerk.

Originally Posted by neil0311

So here is the question...

Since the hard shifts are almost exclusively from 2nd to 3rd gear (and very rarely from 1st to 2nd), but they don't happen all the time, what is the consensus as to the problem?

Everyone says the 2015 tranny is bad and the 2016 is good, so what is the cause of the issue? Why is the rough shifting only present in the lower gears and never above 3rd gear (that I've ever experienced)?

I'm have no vested interest here beyond not wanting my new $36K vehicle to have a catastrophic failure. I own it outright, but will probably not keep it beyond the 6yr/70K miles power train warranty, unless something is resolved before then. I am really curious though WHAT the issue is, if what people believe is correct, that it's hardware.

I also am curious why software seems to at least make a large difference in behavior, both after updates and the relearn process, and also between IDS settings. Anyone have an engineering background who can explain why they feel the shifts between 2nd and 3rd are the way they are?

Originally Posted by youngTL

The only thing the transmission is doing from 2 to 3 is releasing the C-brake and engaging the B-clutch. It's supposed to do those 2 things at the same time, as far as I know. Something may be intermittently getting stuck in the valve body (unlikely), or the timing is off, or any number of issues.

The reason it has to be something hardware is because if it was simply a software fix, Acura would have just mandated that all 2015's receive the same software as the 2016's. That would be super cheap to implement. Obviously they haven't done that, so that rules that out (companies will almost always take the cheapest path out if it solves it). Why replace a transmission entirely for a software update?

Hell, even if it was just the TCU, that's on the outside of the transmission. There must be some internal part that's different in some way, even if it's minor, and may have to do with a component in the C-brake or B-clutch. I'm only guessing at this point though.

Originally Posted by neil0311

Maybe it depends on the vehicle and there may be variances based on VIN, but mine has never, ever come close to what I would list as a "safety issue" or anything like it. To me it's maybe an annoyance and really just a quirk.

Again, not minimizing the pain of others, but relaying that mine (built 9/14) isn't even close to the safety edge.

Originally Posted by youngTL

The only thing the transmission is doing from 2 to 3 is releasing the C-brake and engaging the B-clutch. It's supposed to do those 2 things at the same time, as far as I know. Something may be intermittently getting stuck in the valve body (unlikely), or the timing is off, or any number of issues.

The reason it has to be something hardware is because if it was simply a software fix, Acura would have just mandated that all 2015's receive the same software as the 2016's. That would be super cheap to implement. Obviously they haven't done that, so that rules that out (companies will almost always take the cheapest path out if it solves it). Why replace a transmission entirely for a software update?

Hell, even if it was just the TCU, that's on the outside of the transmission. There must be some internal part that's different in some way, even if it's minor, and may have to do with a component in the C-brake or B-clutch. I'm only guessing at this point though.

Originally Posted by youngTL

The only thing the transmission is doing from 2 to 3 is releasing the C-brake and engaging the B-clutch. It's supposed to do those 2 things at the same time, as far as I know. Something may be intermittently getting stuck in the valve body (unlikely), or the timing is off, or any number of issues.

The reason it has to be something hardware is because if it was simply a software fix, Acura would have just mandated that all 2015's receive the same software as the 2016's. That would be super cheap to implement. Obviously they haven't done that, so that rules that out (companies will almost always take the cheapest path out if it solves it). Why replace a transmission entirely for a software update?

Hell, even if it was just the TCU, that's on the outside of the transmission. There must be some internal part that's different in some way, even if it's minor, and may have to do with a component in the C-brake or B-clutch. I'm only guessing at this point though.

Originally Posted by rgpolson

Agree that this is not just a software issue or the 6 TSBs (counting the 4 versions of 15-040) would have corrected it by now. I think there is either a design flaw or perhaps a manufacturing build issue (tolerance stack-up problem maybe?). Or maybe a combination of the two. It seems the later 2015 builds either exhibit the problem less frequently or issue is much less severe.

Now that doesn't preclude the possibility that the tranny software engineers may find a valid workaround, but they definitely have not found the secret sauce to resolve all 2015 build issues.

Originally Posted by kuzdu

Its a design flaw, my new tranny is great no hard shifts smooth as glass and responsive. I assume its the same program as everyone else. everyone I speak to about the new tranny issue says "Damn they didn't correct the transmission after 14 years"

Originally Posted by youngTL

The old automatics totally failed. These 2015 ones are just being annoying (some people are past annoyance, but the thing still WORKS, just not well). On my initial test drive of a 2015, it had the issue, really badly actually, and I decided to wait for 2016 and was glad I did as a result. The test car had a massive R->D clunk, a hard 2-3 shift (VERY hard, like you would drop your water bottle hard), and hesitation issues coming out of parking lots. They don't seem to be breaking like the 1999-2003 ones though. This transmission is probably pretty durable (especially since it's the heavy duty version, there is a lighter duty version ZF sells and no manufacturer bought it, lol).

Originally Posted by Mike_TX

Yeah, I understand your angst. I'm not trying to be an Acura apologist, either - I guess I just have a slightly different slant on it. And I was probably a little grumpy when I made that post.

Originally Posted by Mike_TX

Do you know that for a fact?

Several manufacturers use that tranny, and every one of them modifyit, either with hardware or software. And in some applications, it works fine.

I could be wrong, but there's no hard evidence the transmission as it comes from ZF is defective. It appears to be a function of what Acura, Jeep and others do with it when they get it.

.
.

Originally Posted by vettefool

just finished reading an article in "Automobile Magazine", long term test of Jeep Cherokee. they said the transmission was a deal breaker, poor shifting. Doesn't the Jeep have the same transmission as the 6 cyl. TLX?
We have a very early 2015. my wife loves the car and doesn't even notice the poor shifting. the very few time I drive or ride in the car it drives me crazy.

Originally Posted by Vlke

I brought up the 2015 vs 2016 before and the service manager response was maybe the 2016 was more refined but doesn't mean the 2015 is bad. It's fine but 2016 is more refined...

Originally Posted by Vlke

I wouldn't say mine is a safety issue either but that doesn't mean it's not a problem. I'm able to mimic the problem like 90% of the time in Sports+ and that's how I tend to demo it to the field rep. It's a lot more noticeable in Sports+ that any other mode. I'm just wondering if they'll say something like oh it's normal for Sports+ to have a bit of a jerk.

Originally Posted by neil0311

What's interesting is that with mine, I just started testing Sport + mode the other day after driving mostly in Normal and Sport (and testing Econ), and Sport + seems to have the least hard shifting in low gears. In fact, the 2-3 shift is almost flawless in Sports +, but the shift point is around 3,500 rpm.

Could this be a shift point issue where higher revs and delayed shifts aren't subject to whatever the issue is?

I'm not a mechanic or transmission expert, so I'm just guessing based on my own experiences.

Originally Posted by sbillard

I get smooth shifts if the RPM is either low or high. So it seems the mid-range (1500-2500 RPM) is where the software gets the sync wrong. Unfortunately that is the "normal" RPM for when I am starting up from a stop in traffic. Can't gun it or I will plow into the car in front. Could baby foot it, but maybe the car behind would then plow into me!

Originally Posted by sbillard

I get smooth shifts if the RPM is either low or high. So it seems the mid-range (1500-2500 RPM) is where the software gets the sync wrong. Unfortunately that is the "normal" RPM for when I am starting up from a stop in traffic. Can't gun it or I will plow into the car in front. Could baby foot it, but maybe the car behind would then plow into me!

Originally Posted by sbillard

I get smooth shifts if the RPM is either low or high. So it seems the mid-range (1500-2500 RPM) is where the software gets the sync wrong. Unfortunately that is the "normal" RPM for when I am starting up from a stop in traffic. Can't gun it or I will plow into the car in front. Could baby foot it, but maybe the car behind would then plow into me!

Originally Posted by Rocketsfan

This is exactly what I reported to the dealership. As a matter of fact, I said it happens around 2000 RPM in stop and go rush hour traffic. With the latest updates it's much better. As a matter of fact over the past week or two for some odd reason it's gotten a lot better. It's not nearly as good as the 2016 as I drove, but it's bearable to drive in rush-hour traffic again. If I only had to worry about a short trip, I wouldn't have been so ticked, but I have a 60 mile round-trip in stop and go traffic that felt like somebody was clubbing my seat with a bat when the tranny was at its worst. As a matter of fact, in driving it today, I felt the lag in the morning, but didn't feel the 2000'ish RPM bump as hard or frequently. Like I said, it's bearable now. Or it was today, anyway. No telling what tomorrow will bring. I've noticed this in Sport and Normal driving now (the smoother shifts) whereas a week or two ago the bumps were coming back after the latest software updates. I swear this tranny's possessed sometimes.

Originally Posted by Mike_TX

You make an excellent point - people who drive or worse yet commute in a lot of traffic and therefore go through a lot of cycles of stop and go will get more frustrated with the shift bump. It's just a matter of how many times you have to experience it in a given time frame.

My situation isn't as stop and go as yours and many others, and I therefore don't experience the 2-3 shift as often in a given day. That makes me a little more tolerant of it than you guys who get bumped a hundred times a day.

.
.

Originally Posted by 1Louder

So frustrated with Customer Care.

So I send them some new information about my case and a question about why some are getting transmissions replaced and others not. They say "please call and reference your case number". I think to myself, well good maybe they are reconsidering their answer. So I call - after the obligatory phone tag I get the rep. I say I got a message from Acura to call them. He asks what about? I say Acura asked me to call them. So I go over my question. He basically says nothing has changed about my case and they are not fixing anything. So I ask why did you ask me to call you? He says because if I had a concern they want to hear from me.

Really.

Cliffs:
Me: Hi Acura Customer Care I have a problem.
ACR: We're not fixing your broken transmission.
Me: Hi Acura Customer Care, I have new information.
ACR: Please call us!
Me: OK I've called, what's the news?
ACR: We're still not fixing your broken transmission.

So done with Acura.

Originally Posted by 1Louder

So frustrated with Customer Care.

So I send them some new information about my case and a question about why some are getting transmissions replaced and others not. They say "please call and reference your case number". I think to myself, well good maybe they are reconsidering their answer. So I call - after the obligatory phone tag I get the rep. I say I got a message from Acura to call them. He asks what about? I say Acura asked me to call them. So I go over my question. He basically says nothing has changed about my case and they are not fixing anything. So I ask why did you ask me to call you? He says because if I had a concern they want to hear from me.

Really.

Cliffs:
Me: Hi Acura Customer Care I have a problem.
ACR: We're not fixing your broken transmission.
Me: Hi Acura Customer Care, I have new information.
ACR: Please call us!
Me: OK I've called, what's the news?
ACR: We're still not fixing your broken transmission.

So done with Acura.

Originally Posted by 1Louder

^ Yeah I think I'm done with the fight. I've spent too much energy on it as it is. I will continue to make good on my promise to make sure people know how Acura is treating it's loyal customers. For now, I'm just going to explore options to get out of the car and move on. Might take me another year until I can get out from under it on the lease. The depreciation on this car seems abnormal. All the more reason I'm glad I leased it.