BEAR-AvHistory

Congrats on the new car, enjoy

3.2TLc

Yeah, this would be about the earliest timeline for the next all new TL replacement. Honda appears to be losing ground in the upper end marketplace recently. The new RLX is off to a soft start. It's not like potential buyers are standing in line at Walmart waiting to check out.

Hopefully Honda is only stalling the new TL model intro to get a feel for how the RLX is being received. At the present time, if a new TLX was introduced....it would hurt promoting the RLX as the flagship for Acura.
A well equipped all new TLX with AWD would take eyes off of the uninspirational and boring RLX model. Acura really needs to spice their styling up a notch and regain some identity. Wonder what's up with the next gen TSX....and where will it fit within the lineup ? I think that somebody got caught nappin' !!!!

KeithL

Not sure you could hurt RLX much more at this point.

Also the TL hurt the RL because it looked bigger, offered a tad more HP and nearly identical features when it came out in 2009.

As for the TSX, say bye-bye no more TSX in the US. TLX shrinks in size a tad from the current TL making the TSX almost redundant.

SSFTSX

Next Honda Fit/City hatch back/Sedan/CUV will have more features and more spacious than Honda Civic. and add profits from Mexican wages.
so there will be no need for Honda Civic.
China got is own sedan slightly larger than Civic. Clearly above Civic with push button start and Acura style interior. Front lights RLX inspired.
http://www.carscoops.com/2013/06/hon...-in-china.html


Europe will get there own sedan a class above Euro Civic which is going to significantly enhanced. see Frankfurt Motor show for Euro Civic.

3.2TLc

Yeah, sad but Honda's reality is nearing with the global market enterprising.
They did it with the original Civic way back and then the 2nd gen TL, so be it.

~ A Euro-influenced luxo....Civic eyeing up on the growing new Chinese market, well hello !!!

~The "Fit" based CUV is coming, no doubt about it....Sucks to be made in Mexico !

~Bottom line is corporate greed, see the quality go downhill, but who cares ?

BEAR-AvHistory

Both the ILX & RLX have tanked. This puts a lot of pressure on the success of the TLX for the car division. If it flops Acura will become just a good SUV company.

draph

I've been wondering how serious Honda really is with Acura the last few years. Let's not forget the NSX is only currently recognized as an Acura where Acuras are sold, and a Honda everywhere else. The NSX may only be a fringe investment into an Acura revival, and is really more of an investment in global Honda brand revival) by Honda, unless Honda is aiming to go global with the Acura brand.

NSX will only be effective in a global Acura launch (or Acura relaunch where the case may be) if the other Acura products are sufficiently impressive to back that up. I don't think that's the case right now. They need products more special than fancied up Civics and Accords. Granted, SH-AWD and the upcoming hybrid AWD are special differentiators over fwd only comparable Hondas (enough such that I parted with my cash back in 2010 for a TL SH-AWD 6MT which had two major differentiators over fwd and AT only Accord V6 sedan); but I believe Acura needs more than that.

Since a $100K plus supercar will likely never be in my future, I would have preferred they spent the money on a front engine/rear drive modular architecture to go head to head with BMW, Mercedes, Cadillac, and Lexus across the compact through full size lines. Given what Honda demonstrated with S2000, a Honda-reliable 3-series killer is certainly feasible.

As the American Honda brand needs to increase its perceived performance and initial quality to keep up with its mainstream competitors, they appear held back by Acura out of fear of product dilution. The latest indicator of that struggle is Civic/ILX - one of the drivers of the cheap feeling 2012 American Civic interior was likely to better differentiate it from the upcoming ILX. Another example is Pilot/MDX - Most of Pilot's competitors have had 6-speeds and 290hp+ base engines for at least 2 years. Honda Pilot couldn't upgrade in its 2012 refresh, since 290 hp and 6-speed would have taken sales away from MDX. ...and now the new MDX drops hp to 290 and still has a 6-speed. Meanwhile, Dodge Durangos at price points below Honda Pilot are going to start offering the same 8-speed architecture that Audi and BMW use (licensed design from ZF) with 290hp and 360hp engines. I wonder where Honda is going to go with Pilot?

I recommend Honda does what it needs to do to make Honda products competitive in their respective market places. If that is too much of a threat to Acura, then Acura either needs to die or move further upmarket with its own specific architectures. If they decide to kill Acura, I'd be perfectly happy with an Accord Touring SH-AWD 6MT for around $40K.

3.2TLc

Yeah, sad as it may seem....but none the less, very true !
The TLX will emerge as the leader, but many will miss the TSX when it's gone.

JM2010 SH-AWD

^^ I think Honda is pretty happy with where they are in the US market right now. Civic, Accord, Odyssey and CRV lead (or close to lead) their respective segments. They clearly lead (and not even close) if you count only retail sales.

I don't think there is any room to say that Honda is not "competitive" in the US. Hyundai would love to be that "uncompetitive" in the US.

Acura's car lineup has been a bit compressed in recent years. TSX too close to TL too close to RL. They are working on it, and I'm pretty sure they will get it right. For now, for my money, I can't think of a car that suits me better than my TL AWD (with MT).

draph

Very true. Honda's move to "fix" the Civic problem for 2013 was a wise one. Word is the Civic will be getting Earthdreams tech in 2014, too, but no word on what that means for ILX since Acura has already released the 2014 without it. It seems Honda NA has decided to dedicate the entire Indiana production facility capacity to increased Civic demand (assuming ILX's run on the same line), rather than make moves to increase ILX demand.

So, perhaps Honda NA has at least made a decision to do the right thing on the cash cow part of the business, and not compromise Honda products too much for sake of differentiation from Acura; but it remains to be seen what more (if anything) they can and will do to differentiate the Acura product sufficiently to justify the price premium, when Acura as a brand lacks the badge equity of its competitors.

SSFTSX

The point is Honda China (having smaller sales level than Honda NA) has introduced car that is between Honda Accord and Honda Civic. and that car is way up market than Honda Civic. ( look side mirror indicators, chrome plated door handles, push button, better leather interior).

weather

I am always baffled to see cars that look so much better than what we get here in NA! I am not sure why that seems to be the case....Are we retarded or something?

Rocket_man

Really??? Corporate Greed? Honda has no choice but to keep costs down and moving production to Mexico or from Japan to the US is part of that. It is a competitive business after all. People on forums like this try their hardest to pay as little as possible for their cars. If you want to fight corporate greed then next time pay full MSRP for your next car and maybe they can keep production in Japan. You did pay MSRP for your current car right?

There is so much competition in the expected TLX range that the car is going to have to have all the RLX features in a smaller package at a lower cost just to compete with the Q50, MKZ, ES350, Avalon etc etc. Maybe minus the PAWS and SH-SH-AWD, but they will need to keep AWD of some sort to compete.

Personally I don't really 'feel' the Crider. That massive chrome grill is off-putting to me. But it does have some nice features for a civic-class car.

g37guy01

I ddnt know a percentage of every sale goes back to corporate and not just lines the dealers wallet?

madrussian190

I vote they bring back the 3rd Gen TL, with RWD, and a six speed auto. Maybe a nice turbo v6 or even a v8 to top it off.

KeithL

I hope you are not driving while being that high

types1fan

Lol

hadokenuh

Lol, RWD? V8? This is so not Honda

Cracking me up though!

LADHAR

Rlx looks are flop
Its going to tank for sure
Look at rlx on one side and lexus gs 350 bmw 5 series etc rlx is not even close in styling

Even lexus gs 350 f-sport have have a same 4 wheel steering system as p-awd by acura

Hopefully they come out with a TLX-S that have around 330hp and better stying that the 2012 facelift. I own 2009 sh-awd . I know some people dont like the beak . I think it is atleast better than the 2012 look .

I am hoping 2014/15 to come out with a better face and with better powertrain
Other wise we are looking at the decline of acura like blackberry in the phone market

Fans are still hopefull
If ACURA is looking at these posts please do something
Otherwise we all gona loose faith in you guys

Lastely again rlx is a flop

Fingers crosse for tlx

DynamicJ32

I have high expectations for the TLX.

I love my 3G and would love to have an Acura as my next car, but the TLX is all that is standing between that decision.

I'm not sure if this has yet been covered, but I noticed that the rear license plate has been relocated to the trunk again like the 3G model (the 4G rear plate is on the bumper). I really hope this 2014/15 model looks closer to the 3G design.

SSFTSX

why would Acura invest in RWD platform. when it can easily increase its sales to 6 million with FWD.

see the poor showing of RWD vehicles when equiped with All season tires. RFT dont matter.

Q50 is not worth comment.


see RWD Jaguar example. handling worse than Honda Accord.
http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/t...rack-test.html

BMW 550 need 275 size tire just to match Honda Accord handling.
http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/t...rack-test.html

IS250F need 255/35 performance tires. you will need to replace these tires every six months.
http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/3-series/...ison-test.html

Honda Civic SI beats IS250F with just 215/45 size rubber in handling. larger side walls.
http://www.edmunds.com/honda/civic/2...st-specs2.html


IF they keep testing RWD sedan with large all season tire they will get same result irrespective of RFT or not. It is proven beyond doubt that FWD cars handle better.

g37guy01

Q50 is the TLX main Japanese competitor. I dont care what edmunds impressions are, Im gonna test drive it as soon as I can. If I like it, its my next car. Remember the only review that counts is in the finance office.

BEAR-AvHistory

Being not so Honda IMHO is what they need to do to mix it up with the Tier 1cars. I think people will be hesitant to drop $50K on a FWD Accord clone.

Not being Hyundai is what is gaining them recognition with the Genesis series which is now selling at the same rate as the current TL. Will take the a few iterations like it did for Lexus but the basic platform is going in the right direction

TeamAcura

I'm not quite sure it's an Accord clone. The only thing it has in common is it's FWD. The RLX is big in almost every way. I was at the dealer yesterday to get an oil change. I've gotta say the interior is beautiful and the trunk space is huge compared to the 4G. I was quite impressed. Then I happened to see one on the road looking in my rear view mirror. I spotted it a mile away with the jewel LED headlights. Looks sick with it ON. Overall styling maybe bland yet sleek but the headlights and grille makes it stand out from the crowd. They need a V8 to be considered a true flagship model though. I'd buy one if I was in the market; especially for the price. I hope the TLX gets the LED headlights and some of the RLX traits. It should trickle down to the rest of it's lineup and it is to an extent.

madrussian190

All I am going to say, if Acura has any chance of surviving the next gen, they need to do something drastic. As much as I hope they make a RWD model that is affordable to the general population, NOT THE NSX, I know that they wont. That will deter any of the RWD fan boys from even looking in their direction.

As much as I love Acura, I just don't see them competing at the IS/3-series level.

g37guy01

What do car buyers in this segment want?

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2013/07...-2013-ytd.html

TeamAcura

Small is the BMW 3 series and mid size is the Lexus ES. What is your point besides the obvious?

KeithL

Accord clone? Come on what part of the car is an Accord clone? Similarities in the center stack? Shared engine components? So a G37 is a Maxima clone because it shares common center stack and some engine components?

g37guy01

A choice of drivetrain options.

BEAR-AvHistory

Platform, engine, transmission & lots of not seen parts. When I put running boards on my daughters pilot half the parts bags had Acura stamped on the because the same parts fit the MDX. They run down the same assembly line with the Accord.

Was very late in life that Honda even gave the Acura its own window glass, they used to have the Honda logo on them.

madrussian190

I'll tell you what they want!!!

TeamAcura

Tranny is still a 6 speed and it is based off the 3.5 V6 but that is where it stops and they do not share the same chassis or platform. Wheelbase is longer and overall width and length are bigger. I'm not sure where you get your info from or if you're just making this up. Sure some of the internal parts are interchangeble but other manufacturers are doing the same thing. BMW is using the same I6 on almost all of their series. As well as internal components. Same goes for VW/Audi, Toyota/Lexus, Nissan/Infiniti and others. This is nothing new. I do not know why you have to downplay the RLX and Acura all the time. 54K for the RLX is not a bad when you start comparing it to other models in it's class.

BEAR-AvHistory

Car & Driver says:

Acura has stubbornly resisted building a rear-wheel-drive, V-6-powered sports sedan. With the competition-the Infiniti G35, the Cadillac CTS, the Lexus IS300, and of course, the BMW 330i-offering rear drive, we're surprised the luxury division of Honda hasn't ordered the creation of a rear-drive TL.

However, we understand why Acura continues to chase competing rear-drive sports sedans with its front-drive TL-an all-new platform costs big bucks, and more important, a terrific front-drive platform (the Honda Accord's) is readily available.

As for the other brands, except for Merc & BMW they do share FWD platforms with their entry level car, Camry/Lexus ES, but go to RWD platforms on their upscale models.

BTW although they are different size cars the 135is & 335is are built on the same platform. BMW just cuts 12 inches out of it for the 135.

BEAR-AvHistory

No because the G37 rides on a RWD platform, not the same as a FWD Maxima at all.

SSFTSX

Q50 is built by French controlled company so you will get French level of reliability.
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/av...r-nissan-36197.

Honda is the most profitable company per employee for past 40 years in Japan with life long employments. so the quality of product and institutional R&D is much higher than Nissan. when all the money is concentrated on FWD platforms usually the end product is much better than splitting it among FWD and RWD.

keith7120

I think folks are getting caught up in the comparisons of their brand to BMW and other brands. In my opinion, I believe they are simply saying hey. We have a vehicle that we consider Luxury that will give you the best bang for your buck. They are NOT trying to convert BMW fans. They are simply saying hey why pay all that extra money for a European/German car while we can get you all of the luxury comforts plus technology for less than the base model German vehicle. Yes Acura lists their vehicles in then same class as other German or Japanese cars but there biggest advantage is their price point. So, with that said, damn it, if you want a BMW go buy you one. If you want an Infinity go buy you one. I have both an M45 and a 13 SH-AWD and I love them both. However, there are somethings that I like on each of those cars that I don't like on the other. For instance, I hate the navi system on the M45 but as much as I love the ELS system, the surround sound system on the M45 is better. I love the speakers in the headrest and the drop down dvd screens for the rear passengers. The down side of the M45 is the freaking rack and pinion. It needs to be replaced! I dont care for that orange colored backlight in the dash either! The V8 is fine but it only outputs 325 horses compared to the SH-AWD 305hp but its only a V6. Yes the M45 cost waaay more money but the difference in the two is very small in my opinion. The one exception is the space in the M45. Its huge!

Edward'TLS

While speaking about higher quality product, I guess you still haven't heard about the badly designed 2G TL/CL FWD 6-speed trannies which have haunted the 2G TL/CL forums since year 2001 and even right up to today.

Please take a good peek in the 2G-TL and the 2G-CL forums.

keith7120

I had to edit my post a bit.

Edward'TLS

Correction in red color. "6-speed" should have been "5-speed".

KeithL

But so much f the rest of the car is cloned to selectively decide what qualifies it as a clone is bias. All manufactures re-use parts and structures across their lines, just because it is FWD and shares some part and design elements does not make it a clone. The ES350 is more closely a clone of an Avalon than the RLX is of an Accord.