When do you think the next gen TL (TLX) will be released?
08-04-2013, 12:40 PM
#801
Along the same lines as Hyundai/Kia uses cheaper materials(under the covers and sometimes not under the covers) relative to the competition in order to be able to produce vehicles that appear to be a better value than the competition.
Of course what really matters, is the sales.
Of course what really matters, is the sales.
Rather that cheapen the quality -- they just basically say -- "you can't get tech add ons that cost money and would force us to cut corners somewhere to stay price competitive -- so we won't offer them."
Seems more honest to me.
I owned a Genesis had everything one could want at an unbelievable price. Where did they cut corners? Well, lets start with the low def back up camera and the air conditioning that wouldn't cool the car on 95 degree and above days ...
Last edited by Glashub; 08-04-2013 at 12:46 PM.
08-04-2013, 01:47 PM
#802
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC - USA
Age: 82
Posts: 7,674
Received 2,600 Likes
on
1,581 Posts
08-04-2013, 02:11 PM
#803
I'm sorry we don't fit your template. Once you can get intellectually honest about what BMW is today and isn't -- let's talk.
08-04-2013, 05:11 PM
#804
2010 TL AWD 6MT: New King
Again its as compared to what. There are literally 10's of thousands of 3 series running WHP increases of 30% to 50%+ up into the 550whp range without reports of catastrophic failures.
The top end cars are at 725whp (830bhp) without ever having to open the engine. This might suggest a reasonably strong engine in its stock form.
On reliability its really is all about what you want to try to match as issues like JD Powers does. Fuel pump issues from 3 or 4 years ago or dead Honda transmissions still occurring both of which will leave you broken down but problem one would be a lot cheaper & quicker to repair. The 3.7's are still burning oil, will not leave you at the side of the road but its not the sign of a good design.
My TL 6MT had 3rd & Rev replaced under a TSB (Honda denied for years there was a problem) & my son-in-laws AT was replaced after the class action suit forced Honda to step up on its auto trans faulty design.
In the current threads here I think the 3's, Audi’s & Hyundai etc. issues are well over played & the Honda’s well underplayed. Its unfortunately typical here when someone posts a moving on thread it only takes a few posts before the seemly required “your new X will explode” one is made.
In the case of BMW vs. TL when one car is selling 10K units a month & the other less than 3K you might expect to hear of more issues since people tend to be vocal about problems with their cars. Many of the current issues with BMW 3's on the forums are from teens driving second & third hand 2006-2008 models. I tend to ignore most of the surveys since they will equate a cup holder they don't like with an automatic trans not doing its thing.
In my own personal experience 4 BMW's from 2004 to 2013, three still in use, with a max of 125K miles, minimum of 6K miles their combined problems reported to the dealer, recalls & TSB’s is about equal to my one TL 6MT that was sold around 60?K miles.
CR: Long a sports sedan benchmark, the redesigned BMW 3-Series is impressively fuel-efficient, quick and luxurious. Handling is enjoyable. It's the Consumer Reports 2013 Top Pick in the Sports Sedan category.
If you're in the market for a luxury compact SUV, 'Consumer Reports' recommends the BMW X3, not its newer rival, the Range Rover Evoque.
The TL is a pleasant car, but doesn't excel in this class. Its high point is its powertrain: the slick and punchy 3.5-liter V6, teamed with a six-speed automatic, returns a good 24 mpg overall. We found the handling taut and the ride compliant and firm, with good isolation from bumps. But the vague steering is mostly devoid of feedback. Road noise stands out in the otherwise quiet interior. The front seats are well shaped and supportive, but the rear seat is tight. The well-finished interior is cluttered with buttons, even when not equipped with the optional navigation system. An AWD model with a 3.7-liter V6 and tauter suspension is also available.
The top end cars are at 725whp (830bhp) without ever having to open the engine. This might suggest a reasonably strong engine in its stock form.
On reliability its really is all about what you want to try to match as issues like JD Powers does. Fuel pump issues from 3 or 4 years ago or dead Honda transmissions still occurring both of which will leave you broken down but problem one would be a lot cheaper & quicker to repair. The 3.7's are still burning oil, will not leave you at the side of the road but its not the sign of a good design.
My TL 6MT had 3rd & Rev replaced under a TSB (Honda denied for years there was a problem) & my son-in-laws AT was replaced after the class action suit forced Honda to step up on its auto trans faulty design.
In the current threads here I think the 3's, Audi’s & Hyundai etc. issues are well over played & the Honda’s well underplayed. Its unfortunately typical here when someone posts a moving on thread it only takes a few posts before the seemly required “your new X will explode” one is made.
In the case of BMW vs. TL when one car is selling 10K units a month & the other less than 3K you might expect to hear of more issues since people tend to be vocal about problems with their cars. Many of the current issues with BMW 3's on the forums are from teens driving second & third hand 2006-2008 models. I tend to ignore most of the surveys since they will equate a cup holder they don't like with an automatic trans not doing its thing.
In my own personal experience 4 BMW's from 2004 to 2013, three still in use, with a max of 125K miles, minimum of 6K miles their combined problems reported to the dealer, recalls & TSB’s is about equal to my one TL 6MT that was sold around 60?K miles.
CR: Long a sports sedan benchmark, the redesigned BMW 3-Series is impressively fuel-efficient, quick and luxurious. Handling is enjoyable. It's the Consumer Reports 2013 Top Pick in the Sports Sedan category.
If you're in the market for a luxury compact SUV, 'Consumer Reports' recommends the BMW X3, not its newer rival, the Range Rover Evoque.
The TL is a pleasant car, but doesn't excel in this class. Its high point is its powertrain: the slick and punchy 3.5-liter V6, teamed with a six-speed automatic, returns a good 24 mpg overall. We found the handling taut and the ride compliant and firm, with good isolation from bumps. But the vague steering is mostly devoid of feedback. Road noise stands out in the otherwise quiet interior. The front seats are well shaped and supportive, but the rear seat is tight. The well-finished interior is cluttered with buttons, even when not equipped with the optional navigation system. An AWD model with a 3.7-liter V6 and tauter suspension is also available.
Contrast with the Porsche 911, a vehicle I've been having my eyes on lately. Porsche sells ~1000 911s (give or take) per month. Yet it's well known that the 996/997.1 suffers from RMS leaks and catastrophic engine IMS issues that can requires a new engine or complete engine rebuild.
So your argument that there are more reports of reliability issues with the 3 series compared to the TL b/c the 3 series outsells the TL does not hold.
We can cherry pick and nit pick data all we want, but the factor of the matter is that your typical Acura (and Lexus and Infiniti) is far more reliable [and less expensive to repair and maintain] than its counterparts at Audi, BMW, Range Rover, and Porsche. Look at cumulative data from CR, TrueDelta, and US News.
Autospies did a study and found that Audi, BMW, and Volkswagen finished in bottom ten of engine reliability. Honda and Toyota finished #1 and #2. http://www.autospies.com/news/Uh-Oh-Study-Finds-German-Cars-Among-Worst-For-Engine-Failures-74365/
CR's value in automobiles is in its reliability data. Its subjective description does not define (at least for me) its merits or failures. If I recall correctly, last year CR was severely negative in its subjective report against the Honda Civic, yet it sold in record numbers.
Sales numbers mean nothing to me. The Camry selling 30k/month is a vehicle I can care less about, and doesn't increase that "want factor' for me want to go out and buy one; nor does it mean it's a more successful or more desirable vehicle. The 911 or Boxster (selling at 400/month) is a make that I have far more interest in, and which I find more desirable, even though it sells only 400/month.
Bottom line: cumulative data and history from multiple sources have shown time over time your typical Japanese make more reliable and than its Bavarian counterparts.
08-04-2013, 06:30 PM
#805
Drifting
If rumors are true of the TLX having the same interior dimensions of the 3G TL and using a "lesser" engine, something tells me the 4G TL SH-AWD is going to be something of a even more rare commodity and an even better value/bargain, esp the 6MT. I could be wrong, but just a hunch...
If they don't produce the new car with a 6MT, you're absolutely right about the value of the 4G 6MTs.
08-04-2013, 07:07 PM
#807
08-04-2013, 07:11 PM
#808
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC - USA
Age: 82
Posts: 7,674
Received 2,600 Likes
on
1,581 Posts
The Toyota Camry, Civic, and Accord (at least in July 2013) sold well over 30k units each; and the Ford F Series at 60k/month. None of those vehicles have a nagging history of engine problems. History has shown those vehicles are pretty dead on reliable, and if something happens, it won't leave you stranded.
Just quickly touched on the brands you listed above.
Toyota recalls 2.77 million vehicles over water pump or steering problems
Toyota announced a global recall of 2.77 million vehicles due to issues that could cause drivers to lose control of their vehicle or that could leave the vehicle inoperable. No injuries have been reported due to problems. The recall comes just one month after the automaker recalled 7.43 million vehicles.
Another 1.39 million vehicles are subject to the new recall in Europe, while the massive safety campaign also covers Australia, China and other parts of Asia and the Mideast.
Toyota to hold world's biggest car recall in 16 years. It's the biggest single recall since Ford Motor Co pulled back 7.9 million vehicles in 1996.
The recall involves 7.43 million vehicles worldwide sold under the Toyota and Scion brands. This is the largest safety-related service action the maker has announced since it began a series of recalls related to the risk of unintended acceleration in late 2009. That and other safety issues led Toyota to recall 14 million vehicles in 2009 and 2010.
A large recall late in the year, however, put Honda at the top of the list. Indeed, Honda recalled 1.7 million vehicles as part of three separate service actions last week – while NHTSA launched an investigation into potential problems involving another 600,000 vehicles.
Honda Accord Recall Affects 600,000 Cars......Honda is expanding a May 2012 recall of the Accord V-6 to include an additional 572,000 vehicles.
BTW the hyper post at the spy site talks about "catastrophic" engine failures. Personally I don't know anyone nor have I read of anyone who has had a catastrophic engine failure. Just for informational purposes a catastrophic engine failure has occurred when you can see inside the engine without taking any bolts out.
Personal experience:
Just for the record I had 1 recall with the BMW, a potentially bad battery cable & the next time I get stranded will be the first time. BMW believes approximately 367,682 cars in the U.S. fall under this recall, the vast majority - around 300,419 - are sedan versions of the 5 Series. But even the high-performance M versions are also affected.
The TL racked up 3 recalls + 1 tsb + dead rear LED array in 5 years, but it like the BMW never stranded me on the road.
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 08-04-2013 at 07:13 PM.
08-04-2013, 07:27 PM
#809
2010 TL AWD 6MT: New King
08-04-2013, 08:11 PM
#810
Burning Brakes
The Toyota Camry, Civic, and Accord (at least in July 2013) sold well over 30k units each; and the Ford F Series at 60k/month. None of those vehicles have a nagging history of engine problems. History has shown those vehicles are pretty dead on reliable, and if something happens, it won't leave you stranded. The aforementioned vehicles sell in such quantities more than the 3 series and TL combined...yet quantitative data shows those vehicles durable, well made, and no re-occuring catastrophic engine issues.
Contrast with the Porsche 911, a vehicle I've been having my eyes on lately. Porsche sells ~1000 911s (give or take) per month. Yet it's well known that the 996/997.1 suffers from RMS leaks and catastrophic engine IMS issues that can requires a new engine or complete engine rebuild.
So your argument that there are more reports of reliability issues with the 3 series compared to the TL b/c the 3 series outsells the TL does not hold.
We can cherry pick and nit pick data all we want, but the factor of the matter is that your typical Acura (and Lexus and Infiniti) is far more reliable [and less expensive to repair and maintain] than its counterparts at Audi, BMW, Range Rover, and Porsche. Look at cumulative data from CR, TrueDelta, and US News.
Autospies did a study and found that Audi, BMW, and Volkswagen finished in bottom ten of engine reliability. Honda and Toyota finished #1 and #2. http://www.autospies.com/news/Uh-Oh-Study-Finds-German-Cars-Among-Worst-For-Engine-Failures-74365/
CR's value in automobiles is in its reliability data. Its subjective description does not define (at least for me) its merits or failures. If I recall correctly, last year CR was severely negative in its subjective report against the Honda Civic, yet it sold in record numbers.
Sales numbers mean nothing to me. The Camry selling 30k/month is a vehicle I can care less about, and doesn't increase that "want factor' for me want to go out and buy one; nor does it mean it's a more successful or more desirable vehicle. The 911 or Boxster (selling at 400/month) is a make that I have far more interest in, and which I find more desirable, even though it sells only 400/month.
Bottom line: cumulative data and history from multiple sources have shown time over time your typical Japanese make more reliable and than its Bavarian counterparts.
Contrast with the Porsche 911, a vehicle I've been having my eyes on lately. Porsche sells ~1000 911s (give or take) per month. Yet it's well known that the 996/997.1 suffers from RMS leaks and catastrophic engine IMS issues that can requires a new engine or complete engine rebuild.
So your argument that there are more reports of reliability issues with the 3 series compared to the TL b/c the 3 series outsells the TL does not hold.
We can cherry pick and nit pick data all we want, but the factor of the matter is that your typical Acura (and Lexus and Infiniti) is far more reliable [and less expensive to repair and maintain] than its counterparts at Audi, BMW, Range Rover, and Porsche. Look at cumulative data from CR, TrueDelta, and US News.
Autospies did a study and found that Audi, BMW, and Volkswagen finished in bottom ten of engine reliability. Honda and Toyota finished #1 and #2. http://www.autospies.com/news/Uh-Oh-Study-Finds-German-Cars-Among-Worst-For-Engine-Failures-74365/
CR's value in automobiles is in its reliability data. Its subjective description does not define (at least for me) its merits or failures. If I recall correctly, last year CR was severely negative in its subjective report against the Honda Civic, yet it sold in record numbers.
Sales numbers mean nothing to me. The Camry selling 30k/month is a vehicle I can care less about, and doesn't increase that "want factor' for me want to go out and buy one; nor does it mean it's a more successful or more desirable vehicle. The 911 or Boxster (selling at 400/month) is a make that I have far more interest in, and which I find more desirable, even though it sells only 400/month.
Bottom line: cumulative data and history from multiple sources have shown time over time your typical Japanese make more reliable and than its Bavarian counterparts.
08-05-2013, 12:09 AM
#811
2010 TL AWD 6MT: New King
You drive a G37, a historically very reliable vehicle. You can't possibly sit here and tell me that the 335 is just as reliable as your G37 (or the 4G TL). And that the Land Rover is as reliable as the MDX or FX/JX?
I was a member on Bimmerzine/fest, for a short period. I asked a question about 335 reliability 4 years ago, and I was immediately attacked and flamed. Their responses: "all cars have problems, BMWs today (this is in 2009) are more reliable than the past, Acura's are not in the same league as BMW, BMWs problems are overblown, etc..."
Like I said above, the collective data is out there. BMW's reliability is not even close to that of Acura's. Some of my friends have BMWs: M3, 6 series, 5 series, a few X5s, and 3 series. A few have ended up on tow trucks; 1 was traded in within a year due to excessive electrical issues; one is at 80k and needs $4k in exhaust work to clear up engine codes; the least troublesome one I personally know are the X5s, and they are ~1 year old.
Look at the all the 10-15-20 year old Acura's out there. There out there for reason.
08-05-2013, 08:30 AM
#812
Burning Brakes
Every make has its problems. Agreed. But some makes are more prone than others.
You drive a G37, a historically very reliable vehicle. You can't possibly sit here and tell me that the 335 is just as reliable as your G37 (or the 4G TL). And that the Land Rover is as reliable as the MDX or FX/JX?
I was a member on Bimmerzine/fest, for a short period. I asked a question about 335 reliability 4 years ago, and I was immediately attacked and flamed. Their responses: "all cars have problems, BMWs today (this is in 2009) are more reliable than the past, Acura's are not in the same league as BMW, BMWs problems are overblown, etc..."
Like I said above, the collective data is out there. BMW's reliability is not even close to that of Acura's. Some of my friends have BMWs: M3, 6 series, 5 series, a few X5s, and 3 series. A few have ended up on tow trucks; 1 was traded in within a year due to excessive electrical issues; one is at 80k and needs $4k in exhaust work to clear up engine codes; the least troublesome one I personally know are the X5s, and they are ~1 year old.
Look at the all the 10-15-20 year old Acura's out there. There out there for reason.
You drive a G37, a historically very reliable vehicle. You can't possibly sit here and tell me that the 335 is just as reliable as your G37 (or the 4G TL). And that the Land Rover is as reliable as the MDX or FX/JX?
I was a member on Bimmerzine/fest, for a short period. I asked a question about 335 reliability 4 years ago, and I was immediately attacked and flamed. Their responses: "all cars have problems, BMWs today (this is in 2009) are more reliable than the past, Acura's are not in the same league as BMW, BMWs problems are overblown, etc..."
Like I said above, the collective data is out there. BMW's reliability is not even close to that of Acura's. Some of my friends have BMWs: M3, 6 series, 5 series, a few X5s, and 3 series. A few have ended up on tow trucks; 1 was traded in within a year due to excessive electrical issues; one is at 80k and needs $4k in exhaust work to clear up engine codes; the least troublesome one I personally know are the X5s, and they are ~1 year old.
Look at the all the 10-15-20 year old Acura's out there. There out there for reason.
If you want to see a lot of old cars go to Phoenix. I don't see many old cars in my neck of the woods.
I really don't care about red and black dots....thats what warranty service is for.
08-05-2013, 09:27 AM
#813
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC - USA
Age: 82
Posts: 7,674
Received 2,600 Likes
on
1,581 Posts
I leased a 330 for 3.5 years, went back for one warranty service...the antenna mounting screw. CR recommends the 328. So while I wont say the 328 is as reliable as the TL, having CR recommend it speaks volumes.
If you want to see a lot of old cars go to Phoenix. I don't see many old cars in my neck of the woods.
I really don't care about red and black dots....thats what warranty service is for.
If you want to see a lot of old cars go to Phoenix. I don't see many old cars in my neck of the woods.
I really don't care about red and black dots....thats what warranty service is for.
I wonder how black & red dots are so important but 10,100,000 cars recalled is a one month spread, not counting the 1,400,000 recalled in Europe can be so easily ignored. Hey, we don't need no stink'N steering or engine cooling.
08-05-2013, 11:16 AM
#814
Suzuka Master
I think the gap the Germans were behind in reliability is closing. If you look at CR stats Some German models are on par with some Japanese models. Look at the A6, seems to have similar reliability to the M37 and my M7S has been exceptional in the reliability area. You will see other examples and you will still see gaps, like the A4 seems to be lagging.
The following users liked this post:
BEAR-AvHistory (08-05-2013)
08-05-2013, 12:15 PM
#815
hondas are more reliable. A naturally aspirated engine will likely be more reliable than a factory FI engine.
People also seem to play with how you consider reliable...I look at it as the post warranty period of useable life.
People also seem to play with how you consider reliable...I look at it as the post warranty period of useable life.
08-05-2013, 01:50 PM
#816
The discussion seems to want to include more than a focus on engine reliability and potential for catastrophic stuck on road side failure. Although it probably should, it's hard to pinpoint issues like hoses, belts, components electric motors, minor or precautionary recalls vs larger more critical ones, etc, to whether or not they have actually posed worse or worst case reliability issues and/or if they ever had the potential to do so or not.
I think the main point that cannot be stressed enough is, as already been noted, all cars seem to have varying degrees of problems but there is evidence that some are more prone to them and some have the potential to be far more worse off. The problem is if it's anecdotel or not and how every study as well as groups of people have different interpretations of what reliable means. Still there has to be some merit in the stricter engine studies as it's not as vague and a bit easier to score, and how FI vs NA plays into that is relevant.
I think the main point that cannot be stressed enough is, as already been noted, all cars seem to have varying degrees of problems but there is evidence that some are more prone to them and some have the potential to be far more worse off. The problem is if it's anecdotel or not and how every study as well as groups of people have different interpretations of what reliable means. Still there has to be some merit in the stricter engine studies as it's not as vague and a bit easier to score, and how FI vs NA plays into that is relevant.
The following users liked this post:
BEAR-AvHistory (08-05-2013)
08-05-2013, 02:05 PM
#817
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC - USA
Age: 82
Posts: 7,674
Received 2,600 Likes
on
1,581 Posts
Just a heads up. Motor Trend did a hot AWD Sport Sedan comparison test this month. Results are what would be expected.
Competition is getting very hot in this market segment with some really quick cars in the mix.
Competition is getting very hot in this market segment with some really quick cars in the mix.
08-06-2013, 10:35 AM
#819
Pro
Every make has its problems. Agreed. But some makes are more prone than others.
You drive a G37, a historically very reliable vehicle. You can't possibly sit here and tell me that the 335 is just as reliable as your G37 (or the 4G TL). And that the Land Rover is as reliable as the MDX or FX/JX?
I was a member on Bimmerzine/fest, for a short period. I asked a question about 335 reliability 4 years ago, and I was immediately attacked and flamed. Their responses: "all cars have problems, BMWs today (this is in 2009) are more reliable than the past, Acura's are not in the same league as BMW, BMWs problems are overblown, etc..."
Like I said above, the collective data is out there. BMW's reliability is not even close to that of Acura's. Some of my friends have BMWs: M3, 6 series, 5 series, a few X5s, and 3 series. A few have ended up on tow trucks; 1 was traded in within a year due to excessive electrical issues; one is at 80k and needs $4k in exhaust work to clear up engine codes; the least troublesome one I personally know are the X5s, and they are ~1 year old.
Look at the all the 10-15-20 year old Acura's out there. There out there for reason.
You drive a G37, a historically very reliable vehicle. You can't possibly sit here and tell me that the 335 is just as reliable as your G37 (or the 4G TL). And that the Land Rover is as reliable as the MDX or FX/JX?
I was a member on Bimmerzine/fest, for a short period. I asked a question about 335 reliability 4 years ago, and I was immediately attacked and flamed. Their responses: "all cars have problems, BMWs today (this is in 2009) are more reliable than the past, Acura's are not in the same league as BMW, BMWs problems are overblown, etc..."
Like I said above, the collective data is out there. BMW's reliability is not even close to that of Acura's. Some of my friends have BMWs: M3, 6 series, 5 series, a few X5s, and 3 series. A few have ended up on tow trucks; 1 was traded in within a year due to excessive electrical issues; one is at 80k and needs $4k in exhaust work to clear up engine codes; the least troublesome one I personally know are the X5s, and they are ~1 year old.
Look at the all the 10-15-20 year old Acura's out there. There out there for reason.
Similar to my brief experience in 2008 when I spent a short time on Bimmerfest and maybe one other BMW forums. Basically I was exploring the possibility of purchasing the recently released 335i and was wondering about owners' experiences. I didn't want to make the same mistake I did back in 1986 when I bought a 325es. Anyway two things made me nauseous at the BMW forums (1) the boneheaded problems that folks were having with the 335i due to stupid design features like not having an oil cooler and having the turbos too close to the automatic transmission causing overheat problems and (2) the utter arrogance and rudeness of BMW owners not only regarding other brands but even other BMW owners.
That was enough for me.
08-06-2013, 12:18 PM
#823
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC - USA
Age: 82
Posts: 7,674
Received 2,600 Likes
on
1,581 Posts
The BMW boards have a lot of ruff & tumble on the, expect its caused by two things. A performance oriented car will attract more competitive “A” types then a family car board where back seat room for a baby seat is a big deal. The second is the 335 has been around long enough that there are a lot of 2nd & 3rd hand cars driven by teens who tend to get all puffed up because they have a Bimmer.
There is a “how old are you” thread on E90Post that has run for 50 pages with over a 1000 posts & the overwhelming number of teen BMW owners posting is quite remarkable.
As for distain of other brands or with levels of a brand, it might be a good plan to look into the mirror of the 3G & 4G boards here. Start with the “your new car will explode” posts that are made when someone moves up or down to a different make. Then move on to the BASE is crap compared to the S type on the 3G board & finely moving on to the BASE vs. AWD threads here.
Generally good discussion boards are about differing experiences, thoughts & opinions not just closed owner validation vehicles.
There is a “how old are you” thread on E90Post that has run for 50 pages with over a 1000 posts & the overwhelming number of teen BMW owners posting is quite remarkable.
As for distain of other brands or with levels of a brand, it might be a good plan to look into the mirror of the 3G & 4G boards here. Start with the “your new car will explode” posts that are made when someone moves up or down to a different make. Then move on to the BASE is crap compared to the S type on the 3G board & finely moving on to the BASE vs. AWD threads here.
Generally good discussion boards are about differing experiences, thoughts & opinions not just closed owner validation vehicles.
08-06-2013, 12:32 PM
#824
What happen to the topic of this thread, I'm thinking i'm going to see more info on the TLX and all i see is dudes arguing about Bimmers and off topic stuff. Whats up with that person that said the dealer had 2 TLX's, no pics?
08-06-2013, 12:47 PM
#825
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC - USA
Age: 82
Posts: 7,674
Received 2,600 Likes
on
1,581 Posts
Are the 6MT's still popping out of 3rd & requiring GM trans oil to help with the sticky shifting issue? Also did the auto trans issues shift, no pun intended, from the case internals to the torque converter?
Thing in you can beat up on any brand if you want to as no car is perfect. There will always be problems because humans make mistakes but the measure is how well they fix them.
08-06-2013, 12:53 PM
#826
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC - USA
Age: 82
Posts: 7,674
Received 2,600 Likes
on
1,581 Posts
As long as it does not get personal IMHO no harm no foul
08-06-2013, 12:57 PM
#827
Racer
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Displaced New Yorker living in Denver
Posts: 281
Received 24 Likes
on
21 Posts
Actually, I was just making a joke, I have no problems with BMWs, I really like them. Even flew out to Munich to go to BMW World. All cars have problems and advantages. There are Acura pricks too. I love my Acura and can't wait for the new TLX to emerge! I also like un-biased comparisons between the cars, which probably doesn't happen when there are a lot of teenagers posting with a "My car is better than yours" attitude.
I really hope the TLX has LED headlights!!
08-06-2013, 02:40 PM
#829
Burning Brakes
This thread should be changed to Ramblings or get cleaned up lol. Or how about create a new BMW thread?! Then everyone can talk about it all they want! I hope he at least gets paid to defend the BMW brand. Just don't mention that 3 letter acronym and maybe we'll get back on topic because he will always have to have the last say.
I hope he at least gets paid to defend the BMW brand. Just don't mention that 3 letter acronym and maybe we'll get back on topic because he will always have to have the last say.
08-06-2013, 03:23 PM
#830
Senior Moderator
iTrader: (1)
Let's get back on topic please.
Also, instead of calling us 'bad mods' how about PM'ing one of us and letting us know what's up? We can't be everywhere all the time. We do have daytime jobs....
Also, instead of calling us 'bad mods' how about PM'ing one of us and letting us know what's up? We can't be everywhere all the time. We do have daytime jobs....
08-06-2013, 05:20 PM
#831
Pro
FWIW, I can count how many times my 02 TL-S (Bought new, driven til 130,000) miles and my 05 RL (Bought new, currently at 180,000 miles) went to service for anything other than regular maintenance on one hand's worth of fingers
I can't count how many times my 07 335i (Bought new, currently at 57,000 miles) has gone in for random things breaking on my toes, fingers, ear lobes, etc... And i'm not even talking about things that would go wrong due to track use and riding around at 450+ whp.. brake light malfunctions, stability control malfunctions, brake pad sensor malfunctions, the infamous leaking transmission pan, failed mechatronics, my air conditioning condensor hose somehow disintegrated and flooded my interior... give me a break.
I've had the radio fail on the 09 loaner 328 i'd been given. BMW reliability is a joke and anyone who says otherwise is just trying to protect the badge they paid for.
I can't count how many times my 07 335i (Bought new, currently at 57,000 miles) has gone in for random things breaking on my toes, fingers, ear lobes, etc... And i'm not even talking about things that would go wrong due to track use and riding around at 450+ whp.. brake light malfunctions, stability control malfunctions, brake pad sensor malfunctions, the infamous leaking transmission pan, failed mechatronics, my air conditioning condensor hose somehow disintegrated and flooded my interior... give me a break.
I've had the radio fail on the 09 loaner 328 i'd been given. BMW reliability is a joke and anyone who says otherwise is just trying to protect the badge they paid for.
Last edited by TheAcAvenger; 08-06-2013 at 05:23 PM.
08-06-2013, 05:26 PM
#832
Racer
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Displaced New Yorker living in Denver
Posts: 281
Received 24 Likes
on
21 Posts
After 14 years and 240,000 miles it still drove like a champ!
08-06-2013, 05:54 PM
#833
I'm not going to tattle tale everytime this happens, because honestly at this point it's common knowledge that certain members are here to derail threads with irrelevant information. I have messaged a mod before and although nothing was done, to the mods' defense he's great overall except in this aspect; I was asked to show proof, as if it's not obvious already. As embarassing as it is, I actually started to complie evidence and then said to myself, "am I really wasting my time when most likely nothing will be done?", and left it at that. I'm glad my remark got someones attention and I hope you don't take it personally ggesq, it was just a dumb statement said to provoke a response.
08-06-2013, 07:25 PM
#835
I'm not going to tattle tale everytime this happens, because honestly at this point it's common knowledge that certain members are here to derail threads with irrelevant information. I have messaged a mod before and although nothing was done, to the mods' defense he's great overall except in this aspect; I was asked to show proof, as if it's not obvious already. As embarassing as it is, I actually started to complie evidence and then said to myself, "am I really wasting my time when most likely nothing will be done?", and left it at that. I'm glad my remark got someones attention and I hope you don't take it personally ggesq, it was just a dumb statement said to provoke a response.
08-06-2013, 08:05 PM
#836
With the addition of the 2014 TL to our order sheets last month, it means that in Sept. they begin production of the current TL for it's last model year. I've always looked at the 2015 coming in March and the 2013s going a little long. NOW, they could run 2014s and start the '15's at their leisure. I'm thinking summer for the 15's now (but still hoping for something sooner).
The following users liked this post:
Shoot2Thrill (08-07-2013)
08-06-2013, 08:17 PM
#837
I had a 2008 535i. Only thing I liked about it was the steering feel and the efficiency
If you have a bmw you r going to see mechanic once in a month for sure.
There is always a feeling " what gonna be the next thing in this car to fault or break"
That was the end of bmw from my life
Then I bought 2009 lexus gs 350 awd 3.5 direct+ port injection 6 speed butter smooth transmission not a single issue with it but sadly got rear ended & written off
Now I am a 09 Tl sh-awd owner no issues at all but slightly dissapointed by the gas mileage
Lexus was getting me 22 mpg in city becoz of direct injection and 6at and TL is 18 mpg
SH-awd is more gripping and safer but
Lexus awd had RWD feel to it
Both are fun cars
Last difference i found is lexus (toyota) rusts less than acura (honda)
If you have a bmw you r going to see mechanic once in a month for sure.
There is always a feeling " what gonna be the next thing in this car to fault or break"
That was the end of bmw from my life
Then I bought 2009 lexus gs 350 awd 3.5 direct+ port injection 6 speed butter smooth transmission not a single issue with it but sadly got rear ended & written off
Now I am a 09 Tl sh-awd owner no issues at all but slightly dissapointed by the gas mileage
Lexus was getting me 22 mpg in city becoz of direct injection and 6at and TL is 18 mpg
SH-awd is more gripping and safer but
Lexus awd had RWD feel to it
Both are fun cars
Last difference i found is lexus (toyota) rusts less than acura (honda)
08-06-2013, 11:41 PM
#838
Summer is Coming
With a BMW, the prick is on the inside
Actually, I was just making a joke, I have no problems with BMWs, I really like them. Even flew out to Munich to go to BMW World. All cars have problems and advantages. There are Acura pricks too. I love my Acura and can't wait for the new TLX to emerge! I also like un-biased comparisons between the cars, which probably doesn't happen when there are a lot of teenagers posting with a "My car is better than yours" attitude.
I really hope the TLX has LED headlights!!
Actually, I was just making a joke, I have no problems with BMWs, I really like them. Even flew out to Munich to go to BMW World. All cars have problems and advantages. There are Acura pricks too. I love my Acura and can't wait for the new TLX to emerge! I also like un-biased comparisons between the cars, which probably doesn't happen when there are a lot of teenagers posting with a "My car is better than yours" attitude.
I really hope the TLX has LED headlights!!
With the addition of the 2014 TL to our order sheets last month, it means that in Sept. they begin production of the current TL for it's last model year. I've always looked at the 2015 coming in March and the 2013s going a little long. NOW, they could run 2014s and start the '15's at their leisure. I'm thinking summer for the 15's now (but still hoping for something sooner).
08-07-2013, 06:14 AM
#839
Burning Brakes
The spy shots suggest it has a variant of the jewel eye headlights. Maybe more like the MDX than the RLX. I think this is emerging as an Acura feature that they want to use to differentiate themselves from others. But others will adopt LED headlights soon enough.
I have no problem with his posts. He is respectful and accurate.. I wish all Acurazine posters were the same. This is a discussion forum. You can choose to read or not. Just like any thread, when there is nothing new the topics tend to wander or the thread just shuts down. This topic though is on everyone's mind so this thread isn't going away until replaced by a new one.
Everyone is hoping for sooner than later. Acura really needs an infusion on the sedan side. I really wish Acura would take an opposite marketing approach with the TLX and release information on the car well before its launch like many other makers do now. Get some excitement going and give us some motivation to stick it out. Put up a TLX website.
I have no problem with his posts. He is respectful and accurate.. I wish all Acurazine posters were the same. This is a discussion forum. You can choose to read or not. Just like any thread, when there is nothing new the topics tend to wander or the thread just shuts down. This topic though is on everyone's mind so this thread isn't going away until replaced by a new one.
Everyone is hoping for sooner than later. Acura really needs an infusion on the sedan side. I really wish Acura would take an opposite marketing approach with the TLX and release information on the car well before its launch like many other makers do now. Get some excitement going and give us some motivation to stick it out. Put up a TLX website.
Whether they dump the fwd format is a big question. I can see two out of three at launch: fwd, hybrid, awd. Maybe fwd will be relegated to the TSX.
08-07-2013, 11:23 AM
#840
Suzuka Master
the difference between Infiniti and likely TLX hybrid will be that TLX will follow the Lexus ES route and be more about MPG than added HP. Infiniti is positioning their hybrid as a HP gain and marginal MPG gain. Infiniti is also nuts for keeping the G37 around 2 more years to compete with lower end BMW. Talk about brand/model confusion to have the 8 year old body style G right next to the Q50.