BEAR-AvHistory

The RL/RLX market is very soft May 273*

* Acura began combining the RL and RLX sales into a single number in May 2013.

Glashub

It's possible Acura is cooked as a brand and goes the way of the Mazda premium brand, isn't it? Kind of like a dead man walking? I knew Acura lost it's way the year they changed the lovely original TSX -- and made it almost as big as the TL.

Stew4HD

Cooked as a brand? No way. The MDX and RDX are great sellers

docboy

Yup. I've had the MDX and RDX extensively as loaners. Both are great SUVs. I've contemplated many times to purchase either one.

If I were to ever get a SUV in the future, the MDX and RDX would be easy top picks in the luxury SUV realm, regardless of price (except the $100k Cayenne Turbo, LOL) . IMHO.

KeithL

Mazda's problem was they were starting out and did not want to invest the capital and thus sent the the 929 and the Milenia to Mazda badges and did a bad job marketing them. Acura started this tier and while may have stumbled has at least a reasonable sized presence and market share that they will not fold. That said while Infiniti is making efforts to break into the Tier 1 players Acura is far from it as a brand name.

g37guy01

If I wanted a luxury SUV, x3 or x5 easily.

VQPower37

^ofcourse you would ...

g37guy01

Of course

BEAR-AvHistory

Why not just get the EX-L AWD Pilot since it carries more stuff?

Stew4HD

Why not get a Suburban since it carries more stuff?

SeismicGuy

The greatest springboard for Acura sales and recognition in recent years goes back to 1999 when they re-did the TL, reduced the price from the previous year, and then threw in a lot of extras that you had to pay for with a Lexus ES. I seem to recall when we were shopping for a 2000 upscale sedan that what the TL was offering for about $27K would cost about $30K+ in a Lexus 300. Moreover, the TL had the most horsepower in its class at the time and was roomier and nicer inside than the Lexus or similar models.

Over the last couple of years the main thing that distinguished one sedan from the next was how much high-tech gizmos were being included. But now even the lowliest cars have much of that stuff.

So currently sedan styling has pretty much coalesced into two or three basic categories (the Asian cars have a certain look, the German cars all have a certain look, with the only other distinctive look is Cadillac) and horsepower has probably hit critical mass (300 more or less), and whiz-bang features are also pretty similar.

So in deciding which sedan to get, I believe the first thing the average buyer would consider is styling differences between the marques followed by bang-for-the-buck. This mix (particularly bang-for-the-buck) is what attracted so many buyers to the 1999 TL when it was underpriced for what you got. Acura needs to come up with the same formula for the next generation.

BEAR-AvHistory

If someone was looking for a big SUV a Suburban or Expedition EL & their clones might be good choices. However, because the mid sized Pilot & MDX are the same car under the skin & the Pilot has more room it is a good alternative.

Its kind of like the choice among the Chevy, GMC & Caddy SUV's which are all the same Chevy shell except for the front sheet metal clip & tail lights.

Edward'TLS

Couldn't agree more.

Sales figures tell all.

Back then, the 2G TL was selling on an average of 6K units per month.

In comparison, the current TL is something like 3K units per month on average, and just last month, only 2,682 TL's were sold.

Rocket_man

The Ultimate Sliding Machine!

Rocket_man

Hey, it's cold up there!

Now that the RLX suspense is over, Acura really needs to take a lesson here. It seems they cannot go toe-to-toe with their competitors at the same price point. They must offer a better value. This is what made them successful. They also can't be too bland and boring with the TLX. I don't think the will actually. The worst thing they can do is delay the TLX and let TL/TSX sales drop to the point where people feel the TLX is irrelevant. Spring, even Summer 14 won't be too late. 2015 will be hard.

JT4

I totally agree and this is why I feel that it is just as important for Acura to not only style the TLX right to appeal to the masses but to also price it right.

I understand that a loaded Q50 is going to be in the $50’s but I don’t think it matters, I think Acura needs to show the value it once did to gain back market share.

I mentioned in another thread that IMO I feel that if Acura prices a loaded TLX low to mid $50K they aren’t going to sell many more than they did with the 4G, if that many. I just don’t think many people (aside from forum members) would spend that for a TLX.

I know you guys are going to think I’m nuts, but I really don’t think Acura can afford to sell a loaded TLX for too much more than a loaded 4G if they want to get anywhere near 3G sales numbers.

Packagingpro

The 2 biggest problems with Acura Sales are the competition and there price points. The competition is so fierce from all the different manufacturer's, especially with Kia and Hyundai. I live in S. Florida and it seems that every other car is Korean.

If you compare the 4G TL to the 3G, the pricing jumped dramatically in 2009. Acura fell price wise, between Semi-Luxury Sedans and Premium Luxury Sedans, similar to the Maxima. The TSX also took sales from the TL.

They do have a winner on hand with the new MDX, the RLX will struggle and reviews are mediocre. Let's see if they hit a home run with the new TLX. I predict based on my research, we will see the car go on sale in January 2014.

JT4

I hope you’re right but I highly doubt this will happen.

To be on SALE by Jan 2014 Acura needs to introduce the car around October and since there is no talk, no spy shots, no nothing regarding the TLX I just don’t see it happening. But it would be nice.

mdArt

Newcomer here, hello!

Here's my theory on the 2015 TLX story.

I think the reason people hate the RLX is because it is around 4 years behind Acura's most current design language. Which means, it probably should've came out in 2010, and if it did, people probably wouldn't hate it as much. Even the beloved NSX is actually around two years behind in design. (Ted Klaus said the new one looks way better than the concept)

I bet Acura's design team had already designed the TLX and were set to release it by 2014, but as people became so focused on car design, they probably (thankfully) got a poor response from their focus groups. They probably scratched that design of the TLX that would've came out (which was probably 4 years behind in design language too, just like it's ILX and RLX siblings, and it probably looked a lot like them) and went back to the drawing boards.
I believe they've done a major refresh to that car and that's why it's been pushed back a year. Hopefully *Fingers crossed* it's up to date.

I've been observing their latest design language a lot lately and I've attempted to paint an interpretation of this elusive TLX. I really hope if nothing else they've change the BEAK!

gtinmia

Haven't read through this whole thread, but I would say 2015 for the TLX. Being that they redesigned the 12 and 13 models, they're going to leave it for 2014 the same design and then 2015 complete redesign. IMHO

KeithL

I want to believe that, but the RLX,MDX,RDX and ILX all have similar design elements. So unless they recognize that the TLX is a different audience I suspect it will be rather conservative.

JT4

interesting rendering, do you have any more to show?

Welcome to AZ

mdArt

JT4, I did this other one a while back when I didn't really understand Acura's design language too much...



But now I understand the direction of their designs and this grill is much better than the beak

This is their concept SUV-X


The grill is similar to the updated grill on the NSX concept. I hope they put this grill on the TLX and update the RLX and ILX with it in 2015.

JT4

Thanks for sharing the pics, I do like the grill..





^^This pic reminds me of the Q50 below. Obviously it's not exactly the same but it is similar enough (for me) that when I saw it I thought of the Q50 .

Edward'TLS

^^ The above looks awfully similar to the rear end of the ILX.

mdArt

I based the rear off of an ILX, because at the time, I simply wanted to paint an ILX and see what it'd look like if I changed it up, but when I lengthened it, I started wondering, what if it was a TLX...?

dwest1023

Thanks! Can you get a job at Acura?

jjsC5

I agree with you. I have owned several Acuras and Infiniti's, and I think that Infiniti is in the same predicament. The Q50 is going to be a tough sell. And for me it's going to be an impossible sell because they do not offer ventilated seats on it. That is one reason we have the TL with Advance package now.

KeithL

I do not agree, most people don't car about vented seats, and most people don;t buy loaded cars. I would say Acura may be the only difference as a while back before the Advance package I thought I read that Acura sells 70/30 Tech/base. I talked to an Infiniti guy once and his was the other way around 30/70, where most people buy the base or mid trims and much fewer buy loaded. I think Acura attracts the tech savvy value customer more.

winstrolvtec

I helps that an Accord and TSX are positioned below it, you can get those loaded or with tech for the same as a TL base and less. Acura was expecting 75/25 for FWD models but I think they are closer to at least 50/50 if not more, as noted. With everything else they offer, a base TL is a tough sale, maybe another reason why they added the special edition.

Shoot2Thrill

From Beach109 on 9-11-11 so this gives some idea of the sales ratios. Don't know FWD versus SH-AWD ration but 50/50 sounds too high, I would guess 70/30. Beach109 would know.

The current trim level ordering break down allowed per order by Acura is as follows for the TL:

FWD
BASE (UA8F2CJW) = 34%
TECH (UA8F5CKW) = 55%
ADVANCE (UA8F7CKW) = 11%
Total FWD = 100%

AWD
BASE (UA9F2CJW) = 9%
TECH MT (UA9E5CKW) = 3%
TECH AT (UA9F5CKW) = 69%
ADVANCE (UA9F7CKXW) = 20%
Total AWD = 100%

winstrolvtec

If I remember correctly 75/25 was how they had the FWD base and FWD tech allocated at the start or intro of the 4G but I could be wrong. 50/50 or 1 to 1 ratio is probably the minimum for just the FWD's from the 09 to the 2013 or this point, out of tech and base models. Not including AWD or advance. Looks like the tech ratio might even be higher, especially if you include the advance. Makes sense that SHers would at least opt for the tech. Good info.

CHSCoast

LOL @ the blown predictions earlier in this thread. Some of you were/are smoking that good-good.

Here's the more realistic view:

Acura isn't simply going to reveal this car with a press release sent to car blogs!! That means they have to wait for a major auto show. And there are only 2 real options within the next 6 months: LA in Nov/Dec and Detroit in Jan.

My money is on LA in Nov/Dec. Obviously, once the car is revealed, it isn't going to magically go on sale the next day. Production has to ramp up so that a 60-day buffer can be in place, proper marketing has to be done (buzz building), dealers and techs have to be trained, etc.

So, the TLX will be shown to the public for the first time in Nov/Dec at the LA Auto Show, and hit dealer lots about 6 months after that. Soonest you'll be able to buy one is late spring 2014.

The existing TL and TSX will continue as-is for model year 2014, although it will be a short run.

Bruce_Wayne

I agree with both of you guys. If the TLX is not priced the same as the current 4G... they cannot even hope to increase sales comparatively year to year, nor against the competition's sales figures.

KeithL

Unfortunately dealers don't seem to know even when the existing TL 2014 will be out, hate to think about a 13 this late in model year.

n-spring

CHSCoast: your posting matches my prediction precisely...

Oswald Vater

A logical progression. Hopefully we will see some "spy shots" before the LA show to at least get an idea where things are headed. A spring 2014 release would be ok with me as I could extend the lease on my current TL which expires in November for a few months more in anticipation of the 5g.

meatball1080

I think they should keep the TSX, but as a coupe (Think Accord Coupe). I really hope they don't put that I4 in the TLX unless it has a turbo or something. I had a 2010 Accord Coupe with the I4 and a 2012 TSX with the same I4, while not the slowest car on the road, sometimes I really felt like it couldn't get out of its own way. I love how my 2013 TL seems to be powered just right and my wife's 2012 RDX is a hoot to drive. While I like some of the modern touches to the new MDX, I hate that they "dulled" it down. Acura's edginess is what set them apart from the competition. I saw a 2014 MDX on the road today next to a new model Hyundai Santa Fe and honestly, the MDX looked bland compared to that, it was just missing something (no fog lights or exposed dual exhaust and dorky looking skinny wheels/tires... maybe, I don't know). Either way I love my TL because it does look different and I enjoy to drive it, however if Acura goes in the direction of dull and mainstream, I'll probably start to look at the competition. Let's face it, Acura's are nice cars and do offer somewhat of a bang for your buck, but their look is what differentiates the brand from others. You can get a fully loaded 2014 Accord Touring w/Navi and an ED 3.5L V6 with everything the TL Advance has plus Jewel Eye LED headlights for about $4,000 less than a Base TL. Seems like they'd be shooting themselves in the foot to continue in the same direction with the TLX as they did with the RDX, MDX, and RLX. At least the RDX looks better than a CR-V, and the same with the MDX vs. Pilot, but the new Accord has an aggressive sporty look. I hope Acura gets this right.

BLEXV6

Just a few comments on this subject. I just came out of a 2010 TL SH-AWD - Tech and into a 2014 AWD RDX- Tech. My Wife has the 2011 RDX SH-AWD - Tech. Firstly I loved my TL interior and was pleased to see the RDX's was similar. Let me just tell all of you who have not driven the new RDX, the interior quality, especially over the 2011 RDX is night and day. It is refined, clean,quiet, fit and finish is tremendous. Acura has kicked it up a notch, to me closer to Lexus quality. This is the quietest Acura I have ever had. The best part is the cost is about the same as the 2011 RDX. Granted the new RDX does not have the SH-AWD, but to tell you the truth, I don't know if I will miss it.They also have gotten away from the chrome exhaust extenders, which I liked, especially on my 2010 TL's quads, but again it does not matter? The new RDX is very good looking with a nice beak.

I am sure the new TL will step it up too. I saw the new RLX, which is very nice, but to me It is not in the Lexus class for a similar vehicle.

My last point is, with the new Accord already out I think late last year, but I cannot be sure, why would they be waiting until late this year for the new TL?

Edward'TLS

It's all about the Acura flagship sedan - the RLX.

Because Honda knows (the limitations of) it's vehicles well.

The new FWD RLX was launched in the Spring of this year, and the AWD RLX will be arriving in the Fall of this year.

The new RLX is already not selling well. So if the new TLX is also being launched this year, it will fuck up the RLX sales even more, especially it's between the AWD RLX and the AWD TLX.

So it is wise for Honda to delay the new TLX by at least a year to the calender year 2014, in order to give the RLX some breathing room.