I hate cars

I agree. I complain a lot on here but in reality I hold the TL to a higher standard than most. If my beloved GN "only" had the same amount of rattles as the TL or only twice the problems, I would be happy.

Relatively speaking there are very few complaints.

Acura's attitude toward the problem is the only thing that really gets to me.

TL|GTX

Obvously not. B\c acura dealers suck balls compared to infiniti dealers, infiniti has way better service, they actually treat u like an good customer, and do the best they can to help u. Ive had experience.

I hate cars

That's what I meant. The product is pretty good overall. The dealership/management is what I have a problem with.

DavidJuch

I like Acura products a lot. They are not too "sweet", like other brands. But the dealership is is also not too "sweet". Probably it is all related to that perspective.

RACINGHART03

iTrader: (2)

After the restart does the pinging return later on that key cycle or does it stay away till the next restart?

Bearcat94

That's a really good question.

Before I had the CAI (when the pinging was easy to hear), I could easily pick it up when I'd use SS mode and moderate throttle through 2nd and 3rd gear at ~3,500 RPM.

BUT if I did that 2 or 3 times in a row (back-to-back; slowing down, then running back through that rev range), it would get harder to hear and/or seem to go away. Then, I'd forget about it till the next time I drove the car.

So, I *think* it would either be eliminated or reduced below an audible level after the 2nd or 3rd time on a given drive.

ymmv

wabbitoid

It's been asked before if other high-end cars experience this problem depending on the changing gas formulations over the year. Does anyone who have a friend with a BMW, Infinti or Lexus who also has this same issue?

If so, then yes, it isn't Acura's fault and I'd be prepared to cut them some slack. But if it happens to our cars more, then IMO, it is an Acura problem and something that they should fix, no?

I fear that this pinging is causing our problems that will be evident after the warranty expires and we are left with $1000's in bills....

I hate cars

I think Acura didn't leave enough margin for error with winter gas and sometimes for summer 91.

I still firmly believe it's in the engine management. I reset my computer the other day and just like before, the pinging is gone even without the xylene. I think it contiually advances timing over time until it hits the detonation threshold. I may just reset the ecm every week or two by pulling the two fuses. Hell, maybe I should wire both circuits to a switch inside the car so I can reset the computer weekly without poping the hood.

wabbitoid

Any chance you could point me to these two fuses? I am at the point where I am willing to try anything!

BTW, is pulling the fuses the same as the 'idle learn' when we disconnect the battery for a few minutes and after reconnecting, run the engine on idle for 10 mins?

RACINGHART03

iTrader: (2)

Strange cuz pulling the fuses only resets some things on ECM. I wonder what it is about that type of reset that affects the pinging? There are multiple levels of an ECM reset on gen 3 Tls. Also cutting power to the ECM within 15 minutes of IGN power can damage it so I advise against that. ECM goes into SSD (self shutdown mode) once IG power is shut off. Takes about 15 minutes to complete its full shutdown.

I hate cars

Strange. Do you happen to know if it resets the long term fuel trim when you do the fuses?

It's my "guess" that the ECM slowly advances timing more and more over time until it hits the detonation threshold. Or else it leans it out more and more until it detonates.

By pulling the fuses, it definately had to relearn the idle.

I actually reset it because I didn't like how the transmission shifts too soft. Shifts are much firmer now but after a week are halfway back to how they were. This seems to happen because I drive it too easy. When I drive it hard, shifts stay nice and crisp.

RACINGHART03

iTrader: (2)

Next time I have the HONDA diag tool hooked up I will check a few things to see if I can pick out what gets reset on the fuse pull thing.

gavine

Here's what the owner's manual from the 2009 Nissan Maxima says ->

Octane rating tips:
Using unleaded gasoline with an octane
rating lower than recommended can cause
persistent, heavy “spark knock.” (“Spark
knock” is a metallic rapping noise.) If severe,
this can lead to engine damage. If you
detect a persistent heavy spark knock even
when using gasoline of the stated octane
rating, or if you hear steady spark knock
while holding a steady speed on level
roads, have a NISSAN dealer correct the
condition. Failure to correct the condition
is misuse of the vehicle, for which NISSAN
is not responsible.
Incorrect ignition timing may result in spark
knock, after-run and/or overheating, which may
cause excessive fuel consumption or engine
damage. If any of the above symptoms are encountered,
have your vehicle checked at a
NISSAN dealer.
However, now and then you may notice
light spark knock for a short time while
accelerating or driving up hills. This is not a
cause for concern, because you get the
greatest fuel benefit when there is light
spark knock for a short time under heavy
engine load."

I hate cars

I have made progress with my car. Results are 100% repeatable every time. I've waited a while to post this, wanted to give it a month of testing before I say anything.

It has to do with how I start the car. It sounds crazy but if I turn the key to "on" and wait 2 seconds and then start it, the pinging is gone, the surging is gone, and the power is back. If I just turn the key straight to start it runs like crap until I shut it off again. I've actually forgotten to pause, driven a block, it runs like crap so I pull over, shut it off, restart with the pause and all is well.

I'm not sure why it does this but some older cars would take a barometric pressure reading with the map sensor when the key was turned to on but once running manifold vacuum takes over. Not sure if the TL does this but I'm sure there's some zeroing of various things when the key is turned to the on position. I haven't run xylene this whole time and I have no knock retard except 1-2 degrees occasionally at WOT which I can live with.

I encourage anyone to try this, it might explain why it does the pinging when the owner drives the car and not when the mechanic tests it out.

I hate cars

Anyone try this yet? I'm very interested to know if this works on every TL.

Handruin

I started trying it today but couldn't tell (or hear any ping). In the summer I notice less ping compared to the winter (strange). I'm going to be paying attention to this though. I'll do the same as you and turn it on and wait a few seconds before cranking over the engine. I don't know what the "surging" is that you spoke of, but I definitely have the ping.

WRXtranceformed

Interesting that you came up with this solution. I used to do this on my Subarus just to give the fuel pump a chance to prime itself before the engine started. I do it now out of habit on my TL-S but I haven't been noticing any pinging.

juruki

iTrader: (2)

I will start doind this from today and update you later. I hope this works

Handruin

I'm still gun shy to call victory, but today on my way to work, and my way home from work I paid attention for ping and didn't hear anything. I did as you suggested and waited 2+ seconds before cranking it over and then I proceeded up large hills with the A/C on and couldn't hear ping. I'll see if I can get some buddies in the car to weigh it down (that seemed to help cause ping) and see what happens. The next thing I'll try again is to take some audio of it to see if I can hear it on the computer...

gavine

I don't have my RL owner's manual handy but I wonder if the TL manual suggests that you pause before starting.

ltkaufman

Hi Everyone, although I do not have this problem, I find the solution very interesting. The car, as part of the emissions system, is supose to purge the evap/fuel system. I would let the dealer know this as this may point to a purging problem with the evap system.

ppeter78

I will be honest i live in florida its hot and the land of no hills. I have had my tls for almost 2 years but i only have 3084 miles on it i dont drive it. BUT i complain about everythying. I have noticed NO noise at all. The only issue i had was the short in the bluetooth when you werre talking on the phone though the car and accelarated there was a hum that got louder as you went faster. LIKE a short well i was right and they called tech line i had to wait about 2 or 3 months for them to come up with a fix but they did. Who knows what that noise is. It could be serious down the line. Call acura corp file a complaint the more calls they get the more likley they are to look into a resolution. Go to the dealer so you have a record of it. Then file a complaint. You can also file with the BBB

usequal

i tried it. At first i didn't hear the pinging but after about 10 minutes while going up a slight hill i did hear it. didn't seem as bad as before but that could be due to cooler temps in my area. thanks for the tip though. im not giving up on it yet. maybe i didn't leave it in the on position long enough.

Handruin

I'm still playing around with this and today I went out to lunch with two coworkers in the TL-S and they know about the ping and this possible workaround. So I started the car with the 2-3 second delay and we drove to lunch playing around trying to reproduce it. With three in the car and the A/C on going up a few large hills, I couldn't get it to ping.

We arrived at the place for lunch, sat and ate for about 30-45 minutes and headed back. I forgot to wait the 2-3 seconds before starting the engine but we decided to continue on and try reproducing it again on the way back since there are other hills. Sure enough going up one of the hills on the way back I can hear the ping I'm familiar with. Now, I don't know if having the car sit for 30-45 minutes makes a difference. I'll have to play around with it more to see if driving and waiting plays into it. It was about 70 degrees F today and slightly humid if that matters.

I hate cars

Very good to hear. I waited nearly a month before posting this and tried every combo of gears, hills, etc. both with and without the delay. It seems silly so I wanted to make sure it worked before posting. Haven't used xylene and the car runs great. There were times when the computer was retarding timing so bad from the pinging that I could floor it on a really hot day and no one around me nor the passenger knew I had it floored.

hmjaffer

Has anyone who has tried the 2 second pause with a lower octane gas? Mine is currently filled with 94 octane, and it will be a while before I drive enough to have to head to the Gas Station again (don't use the TL much).

I'd be interested to know if the pinging goes away -- no matter which octane we use.

I hate cars

Highest octane available around here is 91 so, yes.

hmjaffer

Crap. Just got back from a drive. Even with 94 octane and the two-second pause, my 2004 TL still pings.

junktionfet

I tried this as well and got a pretty typical amount of pinging. At first I almost thought it was working, as crazy as it sounds... but alas my TL turned into a diesel again.

If the knock sensor wasn't so hard to get to, I'd try retorquing it. Every single experience I've had with Bosch knock sensors is that torque is exceptionally critical--a difference of just 5 lbs/ft can be noticed on some engines.

The sensor used on the TL is a bit different in construction, but I can't help but wonder if maybe it was installed incorrectly or over/under torqued.

junktionfet

Amazingly enough my check engine light flashed a number times today during heavy acceleration and pinging. I didn't know the light had the ability to blink, but mine did. It flashed 5 or 6 times, then was out for a while, then flashed again a few more times. The light isn't on, but I'm hoping some kind of DTC has been stored.

wabbitoid

Acura techs have always told me that 'if the check engine light doesn't come on and a code stored, there there is nothing that I can do'.

So now with a code (hopefully that has been stored in your case), at least they will have something tangible to start their investigation from. Might be a good idea to take it into the Dealer$hip this week.

rickpoole

FYI - I stumbled into this thread and it seems to fit what I'm seeing with my 2007 TL (Non-Type S). It too has pinging during light to medium acceleration, but not all the time. Also, sometimes when started it idles and runs rough for 3-5 minutes. Sometimes the MPG goes down by 2-3 even though driving in similar conditions (similar distance, acceleration rate, avg speed, total time, temp, A/C settings). The next drive it is back to normal and may not return for weeks or even months. Normally I always turn the key to on for a few seconds to allow the fuel pump to pressurize the system completely before starting. I'm not sure if the times it runs rough where when I was in a hurry and turned it immediately to start. So, I tried both ways while running errands this afternoon and sure enough, when I didn't pause in the on position for 2-3 seconds I could hear light pinging and when I paused for 2-3 seconds there was no pinging. I had been running mid-grade but other things were pointing to the last tank of gas being very poor quality, maybe even regular. So, with only a few gallons left I filled up with Chevon premium and reset the ECU and after a handful of miles it seemed to have better response and more power. I've only driven 9 miles since filling up but the mileage seems to be up 1-2 MPG. However, it didn't ping with or without the 2-3 second pause. Maybe it needs more time after the ECU reset before the condition shows up again. I'm going to pass this info to our local Acura dealer and see what they say (I won't hold my breath for anything useful).

I hate cars

Don't take this the wrong way but the light coming on is a very good thing. I can't wait to hear what codes are stored in there. This may be the answer we've been waiting for.

07silverTL-S

Just reading through all the comments here. Picked up an off dealer lease 07 TL-S 6spd with 14K miles in July. I had no issues for about a month, then I started noticing the pinging. I'm closing in on 18K miles now. The power and gas mileage don't seem to be affected much (avg 25 mixed and close to 30hwy). The noise is clearly most prevelant in load conditions (up hill, or WOT) and in my case at higher revs (4K and up). I haven't talked to the dealer at all about this, but it doesn't look like they have much to offer by way of a solution. I'll try the key pause thing tomorrow and see what happens. Driving home tonight it was particularly bad.

07silverTL-S

I utilized the key pause technique this morning and on the same commute, with the same tank of 93 octane fuel with appx. the same weather conditions as last night, I had no pinging.

wabbitoid

How has the outside temperature been over there? I've noticed that when it is hot, the TL pings more than when it is cooler outside.

07silverTL-S

it was in the 90s' (F) last week, but today in the high 70's. I agree that when it's hotter, the issue seems to be more prevalent. Today I drove to DC for business and on the way down I used the key-pause... no pinging. On the way back, I forgot to do it and I had pinging. At least in my case, this seems to be a repeatable solution. I also noticed that the start idle is very smooth if I pause during startup. If not, the initial idle seems is uncharacteristically rough.

Ramrodthrusterpuppy

Defies logic....but I'm gonna give this a shot. My '08 TL-S has been pinging intermittently at WOT and seems to be increasing in frequency and I'm reluctant to bring it in to the dealer just yet.

I'll try this solution for a bit and report the results.

wabbitoid

Strangely enough, I've noticed that if I do a 5 - 7 sec pause (i.e. while I put on my seatbelt), it idles rough.

So I've found that I need to do the old "one thousand one, one thousand two" and then engage the starter within 2-3 secs, rather than 5-7 secs. Then only do I get a smoother idle.

However at WOT, I still ping - although not as much without the 2 sec pause....

lithiumgsx

I bought a brand new '08 TL-S about 2 months ago. I've noticed an intermittent "rattle" from the engine occassionally. The car now has 2600mi. on it, and I find myself trying to repeat the noise when it happens. I dismissed the noise as any sort of "ping" since the car had 40 miles on it when I picked it up, and Honda had to know what they're doing with this car, right? Also, keep in mind, that just because the knock sensor is triggered doesn't mean there is detonation. I have seen many instances on many vehicles of vibrations in the driveline / engine bay that set off the knock sensor. I just find it hard to believe that Honda would have a car out there pinging itself to death, and do nothing about it (headgasket shims could be used if compression is an issue - not the easiest, but not incredibly expensive solution). Has anyone actually hooked up a wideband somewhere upstream in the exhaust to read 02s? I know people have used higher octane fuel to remedy the problem, but now that the engine is burning more violently, wouldn't the resonances change, therefore possibly throwing the "noise" triggering the knock sensor into a frequency the knock sensor doesn't pick up? Just a few ideas to hopefully help bring a needed resolution (read: peace of mind) to this problem. I don't want to regret this purchase (what the hell is with no back seat warmer for my girl?) before my first payment clears.