PhilB81

I hate cars: but your keypause and pinging was tested on a 3.2L engine correct?

For me, even with the keypause [actually i listen to seatbelt dings, and on the 3rd or 4th one i crank the engine]. even though it has been reduced i can still hear it a little. my oil is at 30%, so when I go back for an oil change I'll report in. maybe I can try the keypause with a tech.

Also, while testing, how long did you let the engine 'sit' before re-starting it with or without keypause?

thanks

I hate cars

I start it on the second ding usually. Mine is a 3.2L, I've been meaning to go back through this thread and see of the ones the key-pause cured were mostly 3.2s or 3.5s.

I could shut the engine off and restart right away without using the pause and it would ping.

DavidJuch

Could it be this problem?

http://hondaswap.com/prelude/odd-val...-noise-102616/

"Problem found. The new vtec controler was stuck wide open, swapped it out with a used one off a head I had on the shelf. Runs great."

PhilB81

I can hear mine hit vtec so I'd guess it isn't, but i'm not expert.

TLAdvanced

iTrader: (4)

Well, I just made an appointment for tuesday to get my pinging checked out at Acura so we shall see...

DavidJuch

First time I made an appointment in 2007 they said pinging is normal. Now I made an appointment again, they took my car and gave me a loaner. So, will see what happens... Probably dealership is low in car sales, so they want to recoupe some money from fixing.

TLAdvanced

iTrader: (4)

Well, I brought my car in today and he said it is definately pinging but nothing shows abnormal on scan tool. I was pissed and asked why this would be "normal" on a 35K car? He said it is because of the ethanol in the fuel.

Sal's Type S

iTrader: (1)

I thought ethanol/alcohol reduced the combustion temp. There for reduce pinging at the same time.

TLAdvanced

iTrader: (4)

I got this from a Nissan Forum:

What grade of gas are you using? Dose the gas you are using contain any Ethanol? do you have an extended warranty?
My guess is that the gas stations are putting ethanol in to there gas and is the cause of your problem, but with the amount of miles on your car it might be time for a tune up.

If your car is still covered by an extended warranty you might want to run it by your local dealer for a check out.

I had a tank of gas in PA that had 10% ethanol 90% gas ratio and my Versa had a lot of knocking under acceleration and under deceleration. Once I went back to 100% gasoline the problem went away.

ChicagoNick

My car runs perfectly fine and gets great mpg's.

I DO have valve chatter at idle. It's 4 times louder than my old 4-cylinder was. I've always got my oil changed at the dealer and always use 93-octane. Is there a better oil to use to help quiet the chatter? or will an octane booster help? (I understand octane boosters are expensive to be using every time i refuel, just interested if anyone has tried it)

I'd love for my engine to run completely smoothly/quietly... I'd understand if it was a pushrod V-8...

thanks

wickie2000

My car does this also and it definately sounds like shit, its more pronounce when the motor with any load. when warmer weather comes around definately taking it to dealer.

i started using 5w30 to see if anything changes

ASM485

hi all this is josh at acura of orange park im reading this thread, and cant believe the amount of complaints im hearing about this. i can say this it is a fuel problem, that is for sure, no question about it. have any of you googled top tier fuel and found what are good stations next to where you live.

Ramrodthrusterpuppy

I find this difficult to believe.
If Acura needs to specify exactly which company's fuel will solve the pinging problem then perhaps they should put that info in their user manual. Typically my '08 TL-S pings on warmer days, under load at WOT. You're saying by switching to Brand X gas of the same grade...that will fix it?

TLAdvanced

iTrader: (4)

This is BS! I use only top tier gas and only premium. I usually use Shell V-power. I have brought it to Jenkins and was told this is "normal". This is crap for a $40K car to ping!!

I hate cars

Well, I'm glad you had the guts to post on here even if you don't know what you're talking about.

It is a fuel problem in the sense that the TL needs >91 octane to run properly. I suggest reading over this entire thread. What we've discovered is:

It's real knock as verified by a scanner.

It won't go completely away until it's around 96 octane as was proven by mixing 100 unleaded with a top tier 91 octane stronger and stronger until no more knock was present on the scanner.

I'm sick and tired of hearing it's a fuel problem. This is a cop out or the dealer techs are really really stupid. There IS a problem with these cars and it's not fuel. I take it as an insult that you say "i can say this it is a fuel problem, that is for sure, no question about it. have any of you googled top tier fuel and found what are good stations next to where you live." Save this crap for the old ladies that don't know any better.

I hate cars

Now that summer is here I'm expecting this thread to liven up again. Just a small contribution, I just installed the NGK IZFR7K11 plugs which are identical to factory except one heat range colder. The "7" is the heat range. Higher is colder, factory was an IZFR6K11. We'll see how they do this summer.

I swapped the factory plugs out at around 40,000 miles with colder ones in hopes of reducing detonation. Unfortunately back then I couldn't find an iridium plug one heat range colder so I went with platinums. I'm not expecting much since I was already running a colder plug and the plugs really aren't the culprit. Just supplying a part number for those of you that run your cars hard continuously might want to try out while keeping everything else the same.

If anyone was wondering, the platinums that came out look fine after another 40K. I was worried that the colder plug wouldn't hit it's self cleaning temp but there were no problems. Noticed a better cold idle both times I replaced the plugs.

mynewtls

Ignore the title guys - I was trying to post one. I hate cars, Keep us posted - hope it works

mynewtls

Sounds like it may just work with one range colder.

TLinSeattle

Two months ago I bought a 2007 TL Type-S Certified from my Acura dealer in Seattle. After driving it for a week, I noticed some problems:

• Right-front wheel had a flat spot in it, after three trips to the dealer for diagnosis, they finally replaced the whole wheel. Dealer tried to tell me that the bump-bump-bump I was feeling was simply a product of the car's sport suspension.
• Front brake pads needed to be replaced. Apparently, when the car was certified, the tech didn't check the inner pads on my almost $300 set of Brembo pads. Luckily, the dealer replaced them for free, admitted to their error.
• The car PINGS! Worse than any car I've ever owned (now 8 or 9 at age 22 - Acuras, Toyotas, Lexuses)

Here is the basic progression of events regarding the diagnosis and half-repair of my pinging:

• Took the car to the dealer, technician verified the ping. Tech did the heat shield update (doesn't even apply to my car, AND this was clearly a ping). Top end engine clean, drained the gas tank, replaced the EGR valve, updated the ECU, sent snapshot of ECU to Acura, Acura said all looks good - gave me the car back. At this point, the pinging is about 50% gone. Now more difficult to notice, as it's more intermittent.
• The ping is still present, especially while driving next to other vehicles with the windows down. It sounds like a rattle trap, and I can't stand it! I took the car back to the dealer. This time, the tech "can't hear the ping".
• I call Acura Customer Care, they call the local Acura rep, the service manager, the tech, then call me back and say "Your car is operating within spec"
• I demand a meeting with the local factory rep, who rides in the car with me, the service manager, and the tech. On this particular day, the car doesn't ping. The factory rep says, "I'm sorry, there's nothing we can do unless I hear the ping myself AND decide it's a problem"
• I am frustrated - feeling like Adam Sandler in Anger Management with the dealer saying "I'm sorry sir, we just can't hear that noise," and me wanting to carve my brain out with a rusty spoon every time I drive my new $30k P.O.S.

So here's my new conundrum: The service manager has offered, as a gesture of goodwill, to replace the spark plugs in the car on the dealer's dime. (Acura has refused to honor their warranty with regard to this issue on my vehicle) But I'm thinking, that won't do me any good, because everybody else in the world has the same problem according to this thread.

Can't we start a class-action lawsuit against Acura for selling engines that essentially self-destruct over time by detonating? Help!

I hate cars

Here's what you do when they pull the old "I can't hear the ping". Go for a ride with the tech with the scanner hooked up. Tell them you want to look at the knock retard (as measured in degrees). This way it doesn't matter if he can hear it or not, the computer will display it. Anything other than an occasional 1-2 degrees is excessive. Mine was showing up to 18 degrees of retard.

TLinSeattle

Thanks for the advice! I mean to tell you, this ping is NASTY. Especially when jumping on the freeway WOT even on a downhill onramp. Once I hit 5k or so, I feel like the engine's just going to fall out of the car into a giant heap of metal shavings. I will definitely ask if I can do a tech ride with scan tool. Is there somewhere I can find documentation proving that the knock retard is supposed to be 1-2 degrees? Some documentation available on this site?

TLinSeattle

Oh - and what was the fix for your car once they saw the 18 degrees on the scan tool?

Ramrodthrusterpuppy

So when is pinging NOT a problem!!?? I've never heard that pinging is a good thing or even acceptable, so how can they make this statement?

I'm fixing to bring my '08 TL-S in for the intermittent pinging but when I socialized the problem with the Service Advisor during my last dealer visit, he had never heard of the problem...ever. Or so he says...

I can handle the occassional rattles, but the pinging is something that really spoils the whole experience of owning this car.

2008ACURA

Well this is my first post on this forum and sadly not one of enthusiasm for Acura's TL-S engine design team. My car, a 2008 TL-S with about 4,500 miles on it pings noticeably at 3/4 to full throttle. Granted it's been hot, in the 90's here in Atlanta, but this pinging can’t be normal or acceptable, can it? Now that I notice it, that's all I do. I just listen to that lovely valve chatter wondering how much longer this new $38K car can take the pain before it saws no mas and blows a gasket. For those wondering, yes chances are that if you listen close enough, you'll also hear the pings. I use BP-Amoco or Chevron 93 octane gas nearly exclusively. The problem is not gas. It doesn't matter what brand of gas I use, all 93 octane, the pinging continues. The pinging does not occur all the time but at part or full acceleration. Kind of defeats the purpose of buying the TL-s for the extra HP and Torque when the engine wasn't properly tuned and designed from the start.

My last car, a 2002 TL, had needed 2 replacement transmissions, and now this f**** pining. I haven't brought this to the attention of my dealer, but I expect the same dopey answer that everyone else is getting from their dealership. The engine is just poorly designed. My 1998 VW Golf VR6 never pinged, but this ACURA, which is supposed to be a premium car, pings.

I would be interested in joining a class action suit. Are there any lawyers out there looking for work?

AckTL05

iTrader: (18)

so i brought ym car to my mechanic becuase of a "valve tap"...turns out my spark plug was loose...werid

I hate cars

Honestly, not a whole lot. I use the key-pause and that helps. I use a splash of 100 octane or tolulene, whatever happens to be laying around. This summer is the worst yet. I'm getting 14mpg because I have to give it half throttle just to keep up with normal traffic from a light. I'm going to have to step up the octane a bit. I hate the fact that I have to spend so much to fill up but it makes a solid 5mpg difference with the higher octane.

If yours is pinging like you say, you will have damage even if it doesn't show up now. Typically you can't hear it with your ears until you're in the 13 degree range. 1-2 degrees every now and then is considered acceptable. Even mine was barely audible.

2008ACURA

I have an 08 TL-s auto and with 5000 miles the engine has been pinging between 3500 and 4500 rpm at part to wide open throttle.

The key pause technique does not work on my car. I highly doubt it's a fix for any 08 TL-s, and IMHO a PITA to deal with.

joelsaxton

Hi folks,

It's me again. Summer is back and so is the pinging, worse than ever. Every single time I have brought my car into Santa Monica Acura I complain about it, and nothing has ever been done. I come back to this forum and I see that Josh from Acura says it's the fuel? Are you kidding me, Josh? I have used only 91 on this car, from several gas stations, and nothing has made a difference at all. I think you guys at Acura are just trying to divert attention from the fact that you improperly machined these engines, and you don't want to own up to it. Pathetic.

I have babied this car, I have maintained it immaculately, and the pinging continues to grow worse - and not as much as a peep from Acura about it. I feel tempted to follow "I hate cars" example and bring my TLS into the dealer while the sensor is attached so I can show how much retard is actually occurring inside the engine.

2008ACURA

I own a 2008 TL-S which has consistently produced a rather annoying engine pinging or value chattering sound for the last 6000 miles. Mind you my car has less than 9,000 miles on it, and I have always used 93 octane gas (Chevron/BP-Amoco). I can just imagine how horribly bad the extent of the pinging would be using 91 octane gas. The pinging occurs at 3/4 to full throttle from a stop usually. It's more noticeable when the temps are warmer but I have experienced it even during the winter. I've tried the key fob trick - no use at all and just about every octane booster /engine cleaner out there and the result is still the same. A couple months back I had the car in for service and had the Master Tech ride with me. He noticed the pinging sound as well. This is not a rattling heat shield sound. The Tech didn't think anything could be done and told me to try a different brand of gas. The service advisor called corporate Acura on my behalf, but he also mentioned that they wouldn't do anything, and he was right. It's reassuring to know that Acura admits defeat without even trying. They didn't even bother to return my call. I guess I'm stuck with a $38,000 car that sounds like it has a trashy 4 cyl 1989 Nissan truck engine in it. Here's to looking forward to many miles of pure pining pleasure

Has anyone made any progress towards remedying this persistent problem? I'm seriously thinking of ditching the car once it’s paid for next summer –

Your thoughts?

Bearcat94

Cool the Engine/Air as much as possbile and hope for the best.

I hate cars

Only way so far is to run higher octane, either a 50/50 mix of 100 unleaded and 91 or a couple gallons of tolulene with 91.

There is a timing retard box coming out with the turbo kit soon. I'm sure this could be used to pull back the timing on the NA cars too and should solve the problem on regular 91 octane.

joelsaxton

Look on the bright side - the pinging gets better during the winter months

Seriously, I have tried what you've tried with Acura, and I got stonewalled as well. The problem lies in the machining of their engines, and owning up to this would be too costly for them. One of their people was on this thread blaming the gas we use. That's the corporate line and they're sticking to it.

Ramrodthrusterpuppy

Agreed...I went through the exact same exercise with my dealer a month ago. Except the Tech that rode with me heard it and agreed it was detonation. He mentioned the different heat shield TSBs but he and I both agreeed that we would be very surpirsed if it was a heat shield rattling. He was quite candid (which was nice) and said that the few instances that he's heard of this happening, Honda has indicated that it was within spec and done nothing about it.

So when I brought it in for some warranty service, they looked at it, proceeded to tell me it was a loose CV joint shield (?!) which they replaced, performed the sub shelf rattle fix and a few other TSBs and sent me on my way. Of course, it still pings at WOT. I plan to bring it in again to see what they will do....I'm not expecting much.

What I will do in the future, is to have the Service Manager note on my work order that Acura acknowledges the pinging exists and deems that the pinging is normal and within manufacturer's specs and that it will not adversely affect the life of my engine. Then if my engine grenades prematurely I have some history and a written version of their assessment that I can use against them, if need be.

Otherwise, if this perisists and is not fixed; I may consider getting rid of my TL-S and never buying a Honda product again. A $50K (CAD) car should not ping.

Ramrodthrusterpuppy

BTW...the '09 TSX loaner that they gave me pinged like crazy!

2008ACURA

Why is it that Acura has issued a TSB for the pinging issues with the 2009 TSX but not for the 2007-2008 TL's ? Makes no sense to me. Clearly shows lack of coordination and overall disdain for their customers.

rick sambora

iTrader: (1)

That is because the 07-08 TL-S is a small market for Acura and they are done with that model year. They do not want to put in a lot of time or money to deal with the gripes of a small customer base that owns these cars. This is definitely shortsighted on Acura's part. I do not have the pinging(yet) but there have been other issues with quality which cannot justify the price of his car. This is my first Acura and will also be my last. Never have I been to the dealer >5 times within 1 month of owning a car. My rental ford fusion was a welcome break and that is not a good thing. Acura has dropped the ball and then wonders why their cars are not selling. So much for Honda reliability.

wickie2000

https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-problems-fixes-297/knocking-ticking-sound-744121/

4G seem to have similar issues with this problem also

wickie2000

update:
https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-2009-2014-123/a-750665/

maybe they're finally taking responsibility!!!!

Roger555

iTrader: (3)

So what happened with all the pinging?

Ramrodthrusterpuppy

Waiting for the warmer weather....that's when my car starts to ping.