Turbo Kit for Acura TL '04-'08
02-21-2012, 09:13 AM
#5282
Team Owner
Where the 02 is, is a great spot, the closer the better, it can cool off considerably in a short distance. Especially considering the exhaust is already up to 6" from the exhaust valves by the time it hits the manifold.
One more thing to add from yesterday, you're not going to hurt anything if you're not knocking on pump gas. You will never be able to get enough heat into anything (pistons/cylinders/rings) to hurt it before pinging occurs. It's pretty much impossible. It will knock long before you have anything to worry about.
I think you already have one but an oil cooler and a good tune should give you all the peace of mind you need.
Going richer than 11-11.5 AF has no benefit. At that point it's not cooling the charge air any better, it's just putting the fire out.
One more thing to add from yesterday, you're not going to hurt anything if you're not knocking on pump gas. You will never be able to get enough heat into anything (pistons/cylinders/rings) to hurt it before pinging occurs. It's pretty much impossible. It will knock long before you have anything to worry about.
I think you already have one but an oil cooler and a good tune should give you all the peace of mind you need.
Going richer than 11-11.5 AF has no benefit. At that point it's not cooling the charge air any better, it's just putting the fire out.
02-21-2012, 09:39 AM
#5283
^My response to all your statements are on the previous page in case you missed it
Oil is cooler is on the to do list. I can probably re-use my trans cooler after a good cleaning.
I guess putting a sensor on the front bank makes no sense since the wires will have no where to go.
best pics I have of the rear downpipe so Ill have it welded in a little bit away from this o2
Oil is cooler is on the to do list. I can probably re-use my trans cooler after a good cleaning.
I guess putting a sensor on the front bank makes no sense since the wires will have no where to go.
best pics I have of the rear downpipe so Ill have it welded in a little bit away from this o2
02-21-2012, 10:40 AM
#5284
This has my attention. I'm looking at what it takes to interface this to the MS3 and we would either need a gauge with an analog output or build simple amplifiers.
Would monitoring one bank be sufficient or should both be monitored?
Bert, not sure what you meant by not being able to monitor one bank over the other.
Would monitoring one bank be sufficient or should both be monitored?
Bert, not sure what you meant by not being able to monitor one bank over the other.
02-21-2012, 11:07 AM
#5285
takin care of Business in
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^^^ why dont you guys use a dual controller like this:
when i get the MS3 i am looking to get this as I have a true dual and cant just leave 1 bank unmonitored....
http://www.injectedperformance.com/h...trollerkit.htm
when i get the MS3 i am looking to get this as I have a true dual and cant just leave 1 bank unmonitored....
http://www.injectedperformance.com/h...trollerkit.htm
02-21-2012, 11:21 AM
#5286
This has my attention. I'm looking at what it takes to interface this to the MS3 and we would either need a gauge with an analog output or build simple amplifiers.
Would monitoring one bank be sufficient or should both be monitored?
Bert, not sure what you meant by not being able to monitor one bank over the other.
Would monitoring one bank be sufficient or should both be monitored?
Bert, not sure what you meant by not being able to monitor one bank over the other.
You could run 2 sensors but then you need 2 gauges.
Most of what I read says monitoring egts isnt necessary if your monitoring a/f. I can understand that but I want to do some testing and find a good water to meth ratio
^^^ why dont you guys use a dual controller like this:
when i get the MS3 i am looking to get this as I have a true dual and cant just leave 1 bank unmonitored....
http://www.injectedperformance.com/h...trollerkit.htm
when i get the MS3 i am looking to get this as I have a true dual and cant just leave 1 bank unmonitored....
http://www.injectedperformance.com/h...trollerkit.htm
defi egt gauge has peaked my interest
02-21-2012, 11:30 AM
#5288
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^^^ why dont you ask Rodney as I know we were talking about AFR and EGT and he said, he has me covered....
get a sensor/controller which would interface with MS3 so you dont need to put in another gauge and stuff....
get a sensor/controller which would interface with MS3 so you dont need to put in another gauge and stuff....
02-21-2012, 11:40 AM
#5289
^honestly, almost everyone that is getting this new ecu is all over data logging and what now. It gets old pretty fast...at least for me it did. Yea, you want to see whats going on when you first get everything up and running which is fine. But are you really going to be setting up your laptop every time you drive the car? Or are you really going to log everything onto a sd card and look at it after your driving each time?
If I could hook up an egt gauge to the m3s for logging then thats pretty good for comparing things on the computer AFTER your done driving.
But having a full time egt gauge in my face all the time is better option for me. Plus, I need to lose the trans temp gauge anyway since its useless now. After I have the pods done on the a-pillar, ill re-use the trans gauge for oil/water temp or something else
BTW, rodney telling you "he has you covered" makes me lol a little. Make sure you know what your getting before you get it.
If I could hook up an egt gauge to the m3s for logging then thats pretty good for comparing things on the computer AFTER your done driving.
But having a full time egt gauge in my face all the time is better option for me. Plus, I need to lose the trans temp gauge anyway since its useless now. After I have the pods done on the a-pillar, ill re-use the trans gauge for oil/water temp or something else
BTW, rodney telling you "he has you covered" makes me lol a little. Make sure you know what your getting before you get it.
02-21-2012, 11:48 AM
#5290
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^^^ I never said anything about logging....
am installing an Ipad/Samsung Galaxy tab in my dash and have Torque pro (for android) or a similar app running for iOS running which will display all the gauges....the hardware for this will either directly plug into the ODBII port or right into MS3
never liked the look of gauges popping out of the dash like rabbit ears.....
and yeah i do trust people easy and its worked out pretty well for me so far
but will take your advice into consideration
am installing an Ipad/Samsung Galaxy tab in my dash and have Torque pro (for android) or a similar app running for iOS running which will display all the gauges....the hardware for this will either directly plug into the ODBII port or right into MS3
never liked the look of gauges popping out of the dash like rabbit ears.....and yeah i do trust people easy and its worked out pretty well for me so far
but will take your advice into consideration
02-21-2012, 11:52 AM
#5291
Just my opinion, but the ability to log and analyze based on long term driving habits is more important than real time numbers. Depending on how fast your EGT's will change, there is no way you should be looking at a gauge while in 13lb's of boost laying down 550whp.
That is why I am installing a carputer. I don't want to have to lug around or have my passenger hold a laptop so I am attempting to integrate it into my navi screen. I'll have both realtime gauges and logging available all of the time.
I think for first pass, I may just buy a probe and build my own amplifier and look at it using an o-scope.
That is why I am installing a carputer. I don't want to have to lug around or have my passenger hold a laptop so I am attempting to integrate it into my navi screen. I'll have both realtime gauges and logging available all of the time.
I think for first pass, I may just buy a probe and build my own amplifier and look at it using an o-scope.
02-21-2012, 12:59 PM
#5292
Safety Car
The sensor must be close to the exhaust valve. With mine in the position shown in the pics, it was very accurate. I base this on my readings under various conditions. The readings matched according to what a typical engine EGT should had been for those conditions.
If the sensor is place too far downstream (greater than 18" I am guessing), the readings will become meaningless in comparing your readings to known values from others engines. For example, it is commonly accepted that EGT higher than 1800* (as an example) are too high. But if you had your sensor too far downstream, you would not know what your real EGT reading is and you could not say if you were close to the danger zone or not.
If the sensor is place too far downstream, you could use your reading just as a relative reading to your other readings. For example, let's say that wot would usually produce 1400* on your gauge. You then added water injection and your gauge then indicated a reading of 1325*. You could safely say that your EGT dropped by approx 75*. But you could not say that your EGT *was in fact* 1325*. Because like IHC mentioned already, the exhaust has cooled down too much by the time the exhaust reached the probe (located too far downstream) to get a meaningful EGT reading.
BELOW IS SOME REAL-LIFE DATA WHEN I HAD MY EGT -
EGT with excessively retarded timing and wot to 6500 RPM is 1600-1650* F. With max timing and wot, the egt is 1450-1500* F. This is with a J32 normal aspiration and PCD. Cruising on freeway at 60 mph is 950-1000* F. Freeway cruising at 80 mph is 1100* F. Idle is 800-850* F.
The ecu turns off the fuel injectors while coasting. It's funny to watch the egt gauge when coasting to a stop from freeway speeds. The egt temps will drop down to 500* F from the engine just pumping air thru itself (no combustion occurring).
Last edited by Inaccurate; 02-21-2012 at 01:02 PM.
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libert69 (02-21-2012)
02-21-2012, 01:58 PM
#5295
Team Owner
Idk about monitoring one bank or both. Thats why I asked if the probe should be as close as possible to the block or in the downpipe after the merge. Ideally you want as close as possible for the most accurate reading.
You could run 2 sensors but then you need 2 gauges.
Most of what I read says monitoring egts isnt necessary if your monitoring a/f. I can understand that but I want to do some testing and find a good water to meth ratio
defi egt gauge has peaked my interest
You could run 2 sensors but then you need 2 gauges.
Most of what I read says monitoring egts isnt necessary if your monitoring a/f. I can understand that but I want to do some testing and find a good water to meth ratio
defi egt gauge has peaked my interest
I've seen guages with dual readouts for two sensors.
I like datalogging because sometimes it's nice to go back even years and compare to what you have now. If nothing else, have it set to alarm at a certain EGT. Say, if it goes above 1,700F, throw an alarm and capture a screen shot of all other parameters at the time as well. For me, it was valuable when pushing the limits because if I broke or blew it up I could figure out why. I'm sure this will never happen in your case but it's always a good idea to get as much data as possible even if you don't use it.
02-21-2012, 02:30 PM
#5296
Team Owner
The sensor must be close to the exhaust valve. With mine in the position shown in the pics, it was very accurate. I base this on my readings under various conditions. The readings matched according to what a typical engine EGT should had been for those conditions.
If the sensor is place too far downstream (greater than 18" I am guessing), the readings will become meaningless in comparing your readings to known values from others engines. For example, it is commonly accepted that EGT higher than 1800* (as an example) are too high. But if you had your sensor too far downstream, you would not know what your real EGT reading is and you could not say if you were close to the danger zone or not.
If the sensor is place too far downstream, you could use your reading just as a relative reading to your other readings. For example, let's say that wot would usually produce 1400* on your gauge. You then added water injection and your gauge then indicated a reading of 1325*. You could safely say that your EGT dropped by approx 75*. But you could not say that your EGT *was in fact* 1325*. Because like IHC mentioned already, the exhaust has cooled down too much by the time the exhaust reached the probe (located too far downstream) to get a meaningful EGT reading.
BELOW IS SOME REAL-LIFE DATA WHEN I HAD MY EGT -
EGT with excessively retarded timing and wot to 6500 RPM is 1600-1650* F. With max timing and wot, the egt is 1450-1500* F. This is with a J32 normal aspiration and PCD. Cruising on freeway at 60 mph is 950-1000* F. Freeway cruising at 80 mph is 1100* F. Idle is 800-850* F.
The ecu turns off the fuel injectors while coasting. It's funny to watch the egt gauge when coasting to a stop from freeway speeds. The egt temps will drop down to 500* F from the engine just pumping air thru itself (no combustion occurring).
I've found with the probe right before my turbo which would make it about 3' worth of plumbing from the driver's bank, 6" from the passenger bank, the guage responds slower and reads lower.
As you point out, using it as a tool to avoid damage will not be possible but using it as a tool to compare tunes will.
The rest of this is my opinion so take it for what it's worth.... I use EGT mostly to make sure I'm not going to burn an exhaust valve and to make sure there's nothing weird going on. Otherwise the wideband is more useful for tuning and extracting max power. With the known intake manifold distribution problems it would be neat to have a probe for each cylinder to see which ones are rich and lean. I've never looked at one of our heads closely but I doubt tapping and drilling the aluminum would be possible or advised. It would be pretty nice if it were possible.
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libert69 (02-21-2012)
02-21-2012, 02:56 PM
#5297
Just some info to throw out there. We were talking about manifolds the other day. The custom intake manifold made for that turbo odyssey was from wilson manifolds
They build the manifold to in cooperate the upper and lower manifold with the injectors/rails and its polished
Cost is roughly 2500$
They build the manifold to in cooperate the upper and lower manifold with the injectors/rails and its polished
Cost is roughly 2500$
02-21-2012, 02:57 PM
#5298
spatechnique.com makes a nice dual gauge setup. They have quite a few different types.
dual egt is rather expensive
http://www.spatechnique.com/product_...ils.cfm?id=385
dual egt is rather expensive
http://www.spatechnique.com/product_...ils.cfm?id=385
02-21-2012, 03:02 PM
#5299
Safety Car
Does Wilson still have the plans for it? Is Wilson able to make a copy of odyssey intake for you, or is it considered to be proprietary ? Sounds like a phone call to Wislon would be helpful. 
02-21-2012, 04:33 PM
#5301
Team Owner
Thats's crazy expensive. If you can get a core, I might be able to get it flowed for free but I would have to check.
If you have the lowers flowed after porting and they all flow the same, all you need is a large plenum and you're good to go for even air distribution. Build a sheetmetal upper with double the factory volume and you're set with a flow matched lower.
If you have the lowers flowed after porting and they all flow the same, all you need is a large plenum and you're good to go for even air distribution. Build a sheetmetal upper with double the factory volume and you're set with a flow matched lower.
02-22-2012, 06:07 PM
#5302
Kinda 
Its basically waiting on me...
The stoopid ring gear issue is rearing it's ugly head again for the type s.
So! gota pull the flywheel and send it out so the ring gear can be refitted to the new setup, because apparently no one makes the correct one other than acura!
then it's new pipping and oil cooler
Its basically waiting on me...
The stoopid ring gear issue is rearing it's ugly head again for the type s.
So! gota pull the flywheel and send it out so the ring gear can be refitted to the new setup, because apparently no one makes the correct one other than acura!
then it's new pipping and oil cooler
02-22-2012, 06:13 PM
#5303
Kinda
Its basically waiting on me...
The stoopid ring gear issue is rearing it's ugly head again for the type s.
So! gota pull the flywheel and send it out so the ring gear can be refitted to the new setup, because apparently no one makes the correct one other than acura!
then it's new pipping and oil cooler
Its basically waiting on me...
The stoopid ring gear issue is rearing it's ugly head again for the type s.
So! gota pull the flywheel and send it out so the ring gear can be refitted to the new setup, because apparently no one makes the correct one other than acura!
then it's new pipping and oil cooler
02-22-2012, 06:42 PM
#5307
yea, had so many things i had to go backwards on and were waiting for, mostly the tranny giving hell, that it's been a bit discouraging. I haven't been around cuz i didn't want to just talk about the negatives. so hopefully this looks to be the last hurtle. gona drop in the new motor build, swapping to the v2 kit, adding a couple extras then it should be golden.
02-22-2012, 09:21 PM
#5308
Kinda
Its basically waiting on me...
The stoopid ring gear issue is rearing it's ugly head again for the type s.
So! gota pull the flywheel and send it out so the ring gear can be refitted to the new setup, because apparently no one makes the correct one other than acura!
then it's new pipping and oil cooler
Its basically waiting on me...
The stoopid ring gear issue is rearing it's ugly head again for the type s.
So! gota pull the flywheel and send it out so the ring gear can be refitted to the new setup, because apparently no one makes the correct one other than acura!
then it's new pipping and oil cooler
02-23-2012, 08:40 AM
#5310
I always wondered. Would using the starter or gear from a J32 ever work on a J35 for this issue? When CM had the Accord/TL problems with the ring gear, I never heard if anyone looked at that. I thought everyone said it was solely a tooth count and the diameter was the same.
02-23-2012, 12:30 PM
#5311
I always wondered. Would using the starter or gear from a J32 ever work on a J35 for this issue? When CM had the Accord/TL problems with the ring gear, I never heard if anyone looked at that. I thought everyone said it was solely a tooth count and the diameter was the same.
02-25-2012, 09:31 AM
#5312
Hey D, I thought for sure there was a type s with Rodney's kit. He was the first one to install it.
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ghlight=clutch
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ghlight=clutch
02-27-2012, 04:42 AM
#5313
Thoughts on cryo and rem isf treating the mt gears and shafts? Like everything else, some people swear by it and others think its not worth it.
At 10$ a pound for the cryo treating it doesnt seem like a lot of money if the benefits are there. Rem isf is more expensive. I believe the one shop told me 28$ per gear
Can synchros be cryo treated? My reading suggests that synchros are generally made of brass and are intended to be rather brittle on purpose.
At 10$ a pound for the cryo treating it doesnt seem like a lot of money if the benefits are there. Rem isf is more expensive. I believe the one shop told me 28$ per gear
Can synchros be cryo treated? My reading suggests that synchros are generally made of brass and are intended to be rather brittle on purpose.
02-27-2012, 07:15 AM
#5314
That discussion was thrown around but I never saw anyone who had experience with it. At the time, Kikazz was just finishing up and Rodney was talking about him helping with the development of either reinforced or straight cut gears. It wasn't going to be cheap though. The other concern is if the case was going to be the weak link.
I think you are going to be the first to really test the limits especially if you'll visiting Englishtown.
I think you are going to be the first to really test the limits especially if you'll visiting Englishtown.
02-27-2012, 09:08 AM
#5315
Team Owner
The nice thing about straight cut gears is they will handle a little shaft deflection a lot better than helical gears.
Definintely don't want to cyro treat the synchros.
Definintely don't want to cyro treat the synchros.
02-27-2012, 09:23 AM
#5316
Thoughts on cryo and rem isf treating the mt gears and shafts? Like everything else, some people swear by it and others think its not worth it.
At 10$ a pound for the cryo treating it doesnt seem like a lot of money if the benefits are there. Rem isf is more expensive. I believe the one shop told me 28$ per gear
Can synchros be cryo treated? My reading suggests that synchros are generally made of brass and are intended to be rather brittle on purpose.
At 10$ a pound for the cryo treating it doesnt seem like a lot of money if the benefits are there. Rem isf is more expensive. I believe the one shop told me 28$ per gear
Can synchros be cryo treated? My reading suggests that synchros are generally made of brass and are intended to be rather brittle on purpose.
02-28-2012, 03:55 AM
#5317
That discussion was thrown around but I never saw anyone who had experience with it. At the time, Kikazz was just finishing up and Rodney was talking about him helping with the development of either reinforced or straight cut gears. It wasn't going to be cheap though. The other concern is if the case was going to be the weak link.
I think you are going to be the first to really test the limits especially if you'll visiting Englishtown.
I think you are going to be the first to really test the limits especially if you'll visiting Englishtown.
Straight cut gears is not going to happen any time soon. At least not on my dime right now lol
I've heard that heat treating these gears is not going to help because they're cast. I had also discussed getting straight cut gears made, but the process takes a little over 6 months and requires a new tranny. So that's not gonna be for a while till I can get the time and $
I found this post from paul on page 69 of this thread.
https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...postcount=2745
"To me at least there does not appear to be any hardeneing of the gears or shafts, I think this would be a good first step si to first send the shafts and gears out for a good A2 (Air Grade 2) hardeneing then to cryo treating. Als three of the brearing are std ball, it would probaby be nice to find roller bearing replacements."
If paul is suggesting the gears can be treated then maybe they arent cast? I really dont know
02-28-2012, 05:17 AM
#5318
http://hondanews.com/channels/acura-...-tl-powertrain
gears are steel. Off to cryo we go
.
.
.
6-SPEED MANUAL TRANSMISSION
While the TL is now only available with the new 5-speed automatic transmission, the TL Type-S is offered with an available close-ratio 6-speed manual transmission. This precise, short-throw unit is similar to the 6-speed offered last year and now features a different bell housing to mate properly with the new 3.5-liter V-6 engine. It's designed to take advantage of the high power and torque of the new Type-S engine and give enthusiast drivers maximum control and responsiveness.
This compact transmission is substantially lighter than the automatic transmission. It features a high-pressure die-cast aluminum-alloy transmission housing to save weight. To further reduce weight and size, special narrow, high-strength steel gears are used, and the shafts are hollow. Close ratio spacing helps provide quicker acceleration by keeping engine revs up close to the horsepower peak. Brass multi-cone synchronizers are used in first through fourth gears with a single-cone synchronizer for reverse to reduce shift load and help ensure smooth, precise shifting. A large gear-tooth contact area helps to reduce gear noise. A reverse lockout feature prevents the transmission from accidentally being shifted into reverse while the car is moving forward.
gears are steel. Off to cryo we go
.
.
.
6-SPEED MANUAL TRANSMISSION
While the TL is now only available with the new 5-speed automatic transmission, the TL Type-S is offered with an available close-ratio 6-speed manual transmission. This precise, short-throw unit is similar to the 6-speed offered last year and now features a different bell housing to mate properly with the new 3.5-liter V-6 engine. It's designed to take advantage of the high power and torque of the new Type-S engine and give enthusiast drivers maximum control and responsiveness.
This compact transmission is substantially lighter than the automatic transmission. It features a high-pressure die-cast aluminum-alloy transmission housing to save weight. To further reduce weight and size, special narrow, high-strength steel gears are used, and the shafts are hollow. Close ratio spacing helps provide quicker acceleration by keeping engine revs up close to the horsepower peak. Brass multi-cone synchronizers are used in first through fourth gears with a single-cone synchronizer for reverse to reduce shift load and help ensure smooth, precise shifting. A large gear-tooth contact area helps to reduce gear noise. A reverse lockout feature prevents the transmission from accidentally being shifted into reverse while the car is moving forward.
02-28-2012, 04:35 PM
#5319
http://hondanews.com/channels/acura-...-tl-powertrain
gears are steel. Off to cryo we go
.
.
.
6-SPEED MANUAL TRANSMISSION
While the TL is now only available with the new 5-speed automatic transmission, the TL Type-S is offered with an available close-ratio 6-speed manual transmission. This precise, short-throw unit is similar to the 6-speed offered last year and now features a different bell housing to mate properly with the new 3.5-liter V-6 engine. It's designed to take advantage of the high power and torque of the new Type-S engine and give enthusiast drivers maximum control and responsiveness.
This compact transmission is substantially lighter than the automatic transmission. It features a high-pressure die-cast aluminum-alloy transmission housing to save weight. To further reduce weight and size, special narrow, high-strength steel gears are used, and the shafts are hollow. Close ratio spacing helps provide quicker acceleration by keeping engine revs up close to the horsepower peak. Brass multi-cone synchronizers are used in first through fourth gears with a single-cone synchronizer for reverse to reduce shift load and help ensure smooth, precise shifting. A large gear-tooth contact area helps to reduce gear noise. A reverse lockout feature prevents the transmission from accidentally being shifted into reverse while the car is moving forward.
gears are steel. Off to cryo we go
.
.
.
6-SPEED MANUAL TRANSMISSION
While the TL is now only available with the new 5-speed automatic transmission, the TL Type-S is offered with an available close-ratio 6-speed manual transmission. This precise, short-throw unit is similar to the 6-speed offered last year and now features a different bell housing to mate properly with the new 3.5-liter V-6 engine. It's designed to take advantage of the high power and torque of the new Type-S engine and give enthusiast drivers maximum control and responsiveness.
This compact transmission is substantially lighter than the automatic transmission. It features a high-pressure die-cast aluminum-alloy transmission housing to save weight. To further reduce weight and size, special narrow, high-strength steel gears are used, and the shafts are hollow. Close ratio spacing helps provide quicker acceleration by keeping engine revs up close to the horsepower peak. Brass multi-cone synchronizers are used in first through fourth gears with a single-cone synchronizer for reverse to reduce shift load and help ensure smooth, precise shifting. A large gear-tooth contact area helps to reduce gear noise. A reverse lockout feature prevents the transmission from accidentally being shifted into reverse while the car is moving forward.
And saying they're high strength doesn't mean they're forged or high strength.
I know for a fact they are not as high strength as they seem.
I had second gear replace twice, third and fourth once, and a new differential.
Bottom line is the gears need to go, and good ones need to be put in place