ttliang

I talked to Mike yesterday. he said 1050+tax. installed will be about 1200 out the door. jersey boys and girls should meet definitely.

Donte99TL

Is anyone else going to do a before and after dyno test. I want to see a run on a different dyno to confirm the numbers.

blktl1

i will most likely be doing this as soon as i can get my hands on these headers(downpipes). I will go down there as soon as they give me the okay!

againstallodds1

me too!

ESP

Hello,
We are accepting deposit payments first. We will accept payment through Paypal.
Paypal address is: mike@e-shiftperformance.com
This is for the Acura TL and Honda Accord V6. (Pro-Cat)
When you have made payment please leave a note, your name and telephone number so we can contact you once payment (deposit) has been cleared and put you on the list.

Deposit of $600.00 USD
Total is $1050.00 USD (Parts Only)

You can reach us or email us:
1.732.290.7800
mike@e-shiftperformance.com
wayne@e-shiftperformance.com

Thank you.

ttliang

first of all. ESP, i am not trying to hurt your business. these are just my questions/concerns. if you can help answering that'd be great.


I've seen a few dyno charts on 6mt before and after AEM. they were all roughly about
before: ~+-230whp (which makes sense coming down ~10% from crank's 258hp)
after: ~245-250whp (depends on u have catback or not)

this includes Honda research and AEM website + a few individuals here on our site. Nitro's car has comptech catback so it should fall into the +-250 range already with AEM. i understand different dyno setting and stuff. Nitro's first pull = 238whp (let's generously say catback=8whp) with catback shows that ESP's dyno setting/conditions were not far off compared to the rest i've seen. so if 261whp is the final result with AEM, that means only about 10 additional whp out of these downpipes combined with AEM which i have already. while i appreciate Nitro and ESP's efforts, i just need to see some more sampling space/results before conclusion.

subinf

I'm still curious about the cats being used for the CARB emissions/visual test. When did the air resource board approve these cats for the 2004+ Acura TL? They give the ok not based on whether or not the car passes the actual emissions test but if they are approved on paper. My understanding is that as of now only certain domestic cars are CARB approved for aftermarket catalytic converters. I know a lot of petitions have been filed for imports to break into the aftermarket category but those Ok's were pending due to further testing for specific applications.

invincible569

ok Im a little confused now.

When I think of headers, I think of an exhaust manifold with separate exhaust pipes each with the same length to guarantee that each cylinders exhaust gas arrive in the collector equally to stop backpressure. Does this mean that the Acura TL only has one BIG collector pipe (looking at the pictures)?

E shift is calling them Pro Cat. Are they headers or another part of the exhaust system? Please educate me.

jaycuzz

i thought that front wheel drive loss was 15-18 % , to me that is 270 - 15% is 230whp . comptech cat-back only gives 3-5 whp , so then he will be at 235 whp. then the header gave him 21whp which brings him too 256whp. then added the aem cai and got 6whp = 261whp . dont forget every car is different , not every car gets the same results !!! . as far as the cai on aem's website i'm almost positive that it is not corrected hp it is to the crank !!!

ttliang

it's 258 crank btw.

15-18% for auto maybe. 6mt is more/less like ~10% with honda's 6mt.

anyway, notice what i posted were WHP real dyno results from people here. not crank. i can't speak for how AEM do their stuff. let's say it's crank. even by your 15% loss formula, which i disagree, you'll still have about ~16WHP.

forget all that. now his car started with 238whp that's a fact. people dynoed their cars after AEM and comptech they gained about ~25whp that's a fact. i gave it 8whp for the catback(very unlikely). you wanted to give it 5whp that's fine with me. so let's do some math.

238 (with catback) + 25 -5(catback already counted) = 258whp. that leaves 3whp for this mod???

even if you use 20whp for catback + AEM (this low i've so far never seen on real dyno sheets), it still don't have 21whp as claimed. it's only about 10whp.

these are just my questions need to be answered.

jaycuzz

THE 04-05 TL WHAT HE HAS IS RATED @270 TO THE CRANK !!!!

ttliang

here we go again. do some search around here. i don't want to beat the dead horse again.

jaycuzz

THE 06 JUST CAME OUT WITH THE NEW SAE RATING @ 258

THIS HORSE IS ALIVE AND KICKING

ikedawgv6

correct me if I'm wrong, but this is my undersstanding

Well I wouldnt call these headers. All the cylnder headers pipe into a collecter that is casted into the engine. What e-pro really made is a custom downpipe from that one exhust port, and then changed the cats to high flow cats.

So it really is just improving exhuast flow from the engine straight back.

Looks like a pretty straight bolt on.

Yea when I saw the design at first I had too look into it as well, when I thought of headers i thought of the comptech 6th gen accord header, 3 front 3 rear piping together. But yea with all the newer model v6's there isnt the traditional header setup. But I guess this is just as good really.

invincible569

I think we are in agreement here. I wouldnt call them headers either. But we have to look back at E Shifts post and they called them Pro Cats. That leads me to believe that they the buyer is getting Cats and not headers. Right?

I also agree with the others about getting a dyno comparison. ttliang's post opened my eyes about the true hp this upgrade is giving. I want to make sure that $1K is paying for 21HP!

I also keep getting my question dodged about a Groupbuy. If this is a true Groupbuy, how much savings is everyone getting and what is the retail price after this groupbuy is complete?

dman918

I think you are going to be sorely disappointed if you think the intake gives 15whp.

ikedawgv6

I have an accord, So I'm really witing too see the numbers on it. If it really is 21 hp, then yea i'll pay the G for that. That seems about right too me. But yea, being some of the first people to do this mod, always a bit scary that you might get ripped off. Hope not.

Nitrotiger

All this chit chat the numbers don't lie 235whp with comptech exhaust which did nothing for me but lean out the top end and made it breath a little better, i used to have 233.9 with nothing but a dropin K+N. Exhaust 235.1whp. According to comptech it will give you 3-5 whp not a huge gain just a good sound. WIth the New set up from Eshift i went uptp 256whp with the same drop in K+N. When they installed the Cai i went to 261whp. Pretty simple. And i will tell you who ever the person saying you lost 10% is crazy anyone who knows FWD it's more like 15%-18% and RWD is like 20% or more because of drive shaft to rear. Bottom line is it's a great mod and nobody did shit for us. So for all you non beleivers good luck you will be seeing a lot of Jesrey Tl's running well so sit bak and enjoy the show and when you can't get one good luck and remember i told you so

subinf

i dont give a shit about the numbers, i want to know when the cats received the carb cert for the TL

baysic tl

well here in the bay any cat on the car other than stock oem or the car being older than 5 years is not complaint...to answer your question if you want to stay leagal, but the refs or smog station looking for is that you have a cat on the car in the spots were there supposta be

Nitrotiger

I am not going to turn this into a flame war it's either you want make power or you don't the cat is stamped witha ob2 certification so thats all i need. I have no check engine which means you should pass with no issues. Not to menton you have a 4yr inspection why are you concern with it now.

subinf

i know, but they advertised this 'header' system as carb stamped and legal so i am wondering where they got that information.

and they dont only look to see if the cat is where its supposed to be, they check to make sure there is an application for the car being smogged if its non OEM

baysic tl

i ve never had a problem with the high flow cats i have had on my cars in the past going to the refs, i alway thought that if there was a cat on it they were cool with it

subinf

^-yeah its not as strict as carb would like it to be. whats also fucked up about it is that even if your car blows clean its an issue about having the right cat on the car. most places dont check out the actual cat on the car as long as its there...and i doubt this system will cause problems, but the carb legal is throwing me off because i havent found any carb approved cats for the 04+TL

Nitrotiger

This was the 1st cat availiable that was certified in the Usa. So this is no scam they are legit trust me guy's you will be fine if your concern with this. If you are not then this mod may not be for you. No Harm intended. But any car you modfiy has some risk. But this set up is risk free and i said before most of us do not need inspection till 08 or higher!!!! Keep your stock set up for inspection time if you think your going to have an issue but i beleve you will not have any problems at all

blktl1

Here is 3PUTTS numbers before and after the AEM intake and Comptech exhaust.

BASELINE:
HP = 208
TQ = 195

AEM CAI + CT Catback:
HP = 230
TQ = 212

This show a total of 22 hp increase and 17lbs tq increase.

NitroTigers numbers were

K&n drop in 233.9
K&N drop in and CT exhaust 235.1
" '' " " and the down pipe 256 hp and 222 lbs of torque
AEM Ct exhaust and down pipe is 261 hp and 232 lbs of torque

as you can see with a K&N drop in and stock comparison, the two are extremely different. Now, I was in the same boat you guys were in when I heard that there was only 5 hp gain with the AEM. But if you look there is similar gains with the two. Everyone knows that when you put two mods together, the gains proven with those two mods do not add together and make your gain. He may have only added 5 extra horse power when he dropped in the AEM but the torque numbers jumped by 10 lbs. I dont know about you but I know that we lack torque. I beleive that this mod does help alot and it still has potential once the actual Y pipe is changed. I guess the only way to find out is to see if it works right!! I am not saying that anyone is wrong but to be honest I am going more on this guys opinion rather than the numbers.

trancemission

not it is not, it could not be more dead............

do a freakin search...

ttliang

we are more or less thinking along the same line here. however i believe 3putt's is a 5AT (please correct me if i'm wrong). the actual gain is there nontheless. look at "Gobig"'s 6MT chart. he didn't give us any specific list on mods before the AEM and catback i assumed it's stock.

before=237whp
after=250whp

that's why i am saying combined with AEM and catback mods, this thing will give us about 10whp + some tq. you were totally right that mod+mod+mod....are not leaner addition.

like i said before. i appreciate Nitro and ESP's effort very much. my questions are not intended to hurt their business or deny their efforts. i believe these are legit questions to ask before putting down a G. correct info/test results and AD is all i'm asking. i can spend a G on my car with no gain at all if i choose so.

it's not about who believe whom or not. this is an open forum on the internet. old timers know each other pretty well based on their "track (lol)" records but then we don't really "know" each other, do we? just some fact findings so we can make correct decision based on our individual situations. Thanks.

blktl1

I am not saying that this is not a total waste of a "G". I just dont trust dyno numbers at all. I feel that a DYNO is a big load of bull shit. Every type and every Dyno will pull a different number every time. For instance I had a Turbo RSX and on one Dyno and i put out 396WHP. On a different Dyno I put out 430WHP. then I went back to the first Dyno and it said that I made 372WHP. Maybe its not all Dynos but in my past experiences the numbers that are made off dynos are Bull Sh - t. Thats my opinion and I am not knocking yours. You may be right but I feel High flow cats will help significantly. i already have the intake and the exhaust and pulley and he will be doing a before and after on mine. We will see in about 3 weeks.

blktl1

oh yeah , 3PUTts was a 6 spd.

ttliang

different drum settings. temp. humidity. other settings..etc. they will produce different results. same dyno on the same day w/ same settings can provide a solid reference for mod you did that day. it doesn't mean tomorrow you will get the same numbers. i am sure most people understand that.

i am saying that dyno results are about our only references without a laser fifth wheel at this point. g-timer maybe? if you go to the track often, maybe you can share your numbers before and after to get an average. oh it'd better be quicker but we won't know how much HP we are getting for the G. we can probably do an "estimate". we'll see in 3 weeks.

baysic tl

yeah haveing that carb sticker would not be fun, i fell you on that.... but have you ever had your tl hood popped by a cop yet, just asking i don't think cops look at tl like the other imports...but it would be that one time they get you

this hole thing about numbers you guys are into it to much...he could have a factory freak that gave those hp ratings evan if you get what your looking for, the 1000 bucks on your car for the downpipes could still don't dyno any were near his or your could be higher than his hp#'s....i don't mean to get wrapped up in this but it comes down to it you either want them and deal with what ever hp#'s you get or don't spent the 1000 buck on them and buy a nos systems and get a sure 100 hores'....

blktl1

I am a regular at the track in Englishtown NJ. I ussually go about once every two weeks when it is open and I will definately tell you if it made a difference. I was around the same time as Nitro with intake and exhaust. My time with the pulley was slightly better and we will see how much better the down pipe makes it when the track opens again for test and tune nights

ttliang

i see ur point...

ttliang

don't mean much but oh man that's a rather low output for 6mt on that dyno.

blktl1

Yeah I know thats my point in saying that dyno's have too much fluctuation.

subinf

still interested in the above


i dont have a problem putting this on my car at all, i just want more information before i drop a grand on anything

ESP

Hey Guys,
This is Mike Miranda owner of E-Shift Performance LLC. I have been in the Import industry for about ten years. E-Shift Performance is a new company in business for about seven months, but, my prior experience is with managing SPI PowerExcel. With that responsiblility it allowed me to be in the designing, fabrication, Dyno tuning and installation departments. We have developed and installed different power related systems such as Turbo Systems, Twin Charged (Mini), Nitrous Systems and engine development.
The E-ProCat was prototyped for “Nitrotiger” as per his request. Again, this was a one-off design that after it’s installation and test results, he urged us to let it be available in small amounts to the guys in this forum. With that said, we needed some form of confirmation from the group for their interest in the product. Secondly, we intended to use this as advertisement for our new business. The amount needed for us to start this project is 15 to 20 confirmed orders.
Listed below are the components that comprise the E-ProCat:
· 3 Metal Cat (around $200.00 each plus shipping and handling)
· 2 Top cylinder Head Flange $20.00 each
· 2 Mid Pipe Flange $15.00 each
· 2 Center Cat Flange $15.00 each
· 4 o2 sensor bungs $9.99 each
· Burns Stainless U bends $34.00 each
· Plus custom cutting and welding

The manufacturer is Metal Cat. You can look it up on the web. The EPA and CARB information is listed there. We are NOT claiming or confirming that this system is EPA or smog compliant. The E-ProCat in it’s design was developed to be as EPA sensitive as possible, that is why we incurred the time and cost of the Cat. We again, only designed this for “Nitrotiger” and have NOT yet tested this at a smog station. We have not had any engine check light issues with this car.
This is a complete bolt-on system. If any issues, your original system could be replaced at will. This is one of the best Cat’s on the market today. The test results from “Nitrotiger’s” car suggest that he is getting better gas mileage as well. This system has shown over 21whp and 14 ft. torque on average. On a natural aspirated engine this is a significant gain by just exhaust bolt-on.
Remember guys, this is not our main business, just a value add product to our company. Thanks for reviewing the product and if you are still interested. Let us know. Thanks.

subinf

awesome, thanks so much for the price break down and information about the catalytic converters. thanks for doing this.

bo0sting2mch

so what ever happen to spi ? are they still around?...shop still at rt 35?