I hate cars

That's pretty neat.

Now the questions, how far can you push the stock internals rpms wise.

How far will the stock valvetrain go before experiencing valve float?

Will the J32 make additional power past the stock redline?

I'm assuming it will float the valves shortly after stock redline judging by the bent valve posts that the driver claims barely went past redline.

Maybe the Type S cams would be a good addition since you're going to be in there anyway. They should raise the powerband of the smaller J32 nicely and compliment one another.

Inaccurate

BTW, I am *not* advocating this product by posting the link above. Just helping a fellow member understand what was being discussed.
:surrender

dragonlord

I agree totally. R & D with one vehicle is fine, but I prefer a broader base. I will still have this on my wish list, and see how things go towards the end of the year (financially).

JandR

i understand totally but been that were not a huge coorporation interest in the kit and deposits help us get the job done ,like now we have to put one on a type-s plus were working on govern & rev limit removal,we had a few type-s owners interested so we decided to go ahead and we secured a loaner but its really hard to pick up all the overhead cost which wve done wit the base......

paliknight

im interested in this. but i have a couple of questions first:

1- warranty issues
2- i always read on here that our engines cant handle too much power. so how would it be able to handle ~430HP? (including the AUTO! tranny)
3- would this mess with any of the car's features? since the rev limiter and the speed limiter will be removed.

Majofo

I would be more inclined if I was under warranty.. If the engine or transmission took a dump I'd swap everything out and pull a Tommy Boy... "Whatd'cha do?"

JandR

with a good tune which we offer with kit and airfuel ratio gauge we havent seen why motor cant handle this type of power.....

we are currently still working on removing govrn & rev limit as info becomes available ill share....

as far as warranty goes we warranty our custom made parts example piipng,factory precision warranty on turbo ...

Inaccurate

Wow. Looks like TommyBoy is the only person willing to try the TL Diet. Way to go TommyBoy


Woo Hoo, What a Ride !!!
(no wonder he is grinning from ear-to-ear. Looks like me driving mine!)

Majofo

salu8819

sorry if its been asked....How much HP is the turbo being for producing? and how much psi?

Gary TL S

I will make a deposit as soon as the kit is read for the type s 5 at ..

JandR

If we can get three more people on the types list we can have that ready for November -December ....

Lazer187

iTrader: (1)

Im still worried about the base tl guy with the turbo that had is tranny blown, and sent it out to get rebuilt and beffed up, but i have never heard any more feedback of that person, as i also requested for details & info on the other thread with no response... So is the AT Turbo tl back up and running?

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

I don't think Banbela has posted for awhile. I would not run the turbo on a Auto car, unless you can beef up the tranny or you run lower boost.

If you Type-s guys really have the cash to buy the kit, put down a deposit and support the progress and R&D Sitting back and saying " I would buy one if it were made for the Type-s" with no intention of buying a kit is unfair to our vendors.

I understand not wanting to kill your engine, but the aftermarket support for the TL is limited and sitting back to see how the turbo works out for other members first may result in the death of this project.

I am sorry about the rant but all this BS about " can I buy just the map" and " can I have the parts list so I can make it myself" is wrong. Pass has worked very hard and spend quite a bit of money on the premis that people wanted a turbo kit. If you want a kit pony up the cash and sign up because I dont see Pass of JandR paying for vendor status much longer with no money comming in.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

HiSpeed is right on.

Maybe Rodney and John should sell just the maps, but figure out all the profit they have factored in for the full kit and sell it that way.

It's too bad so many people bagged out and use excuses like blowing other parts. A lot of this will be based on how hard you beat on it but how can anyone expect things like this NOT happening when you double your horsepower.

I figured that by now the used part market for a 3G should be ok so I'm expecting to repair/swap things myself. Anyone who is concerned about warranty coverage for the most part is also kidding themselves. I threw that out the window when I did the navi conversion so I might as well dig into the mechanics next!

I hate cars

I agree 100%.

JandR

Guys I have to thank you a bunch for posting I haven't been getting instant email notification for some reason , but I thank you for summing it up in one post.... Hi speed Kn-Tl , and I'm hoping ihc gets his promotion so I can get him on the list ....and thanks to the 4 people who signed up for there support ...

Inaccurate

Sorta bad timing on my part... with all the talk about "no discounts please".....

I have been thinking about the following for a few days.

If I was JandR, I would approach IHC and offer him a SUBSTANTIAL discount on a kit. This would really be a R&D investment. Just imagine all of the helpful guidance everyone (incl JandR) would receive if IHC had a kit on his TL.

I hate cars

I would love to "fine tune" the kit so to speak. That's what I'm good at. Improving street manners, spool, drivability, reliability, etc. Not saying there's much left to improve on, but it's fun for me.

I discovered something pertaining to the wastegate that yielded me about 45hp on the GN that I've never shared. It places no additional stress on the engine. So far I've never seen anyone else do it or write about it but it works and works well and I would like to give it a try on the turbo TL. This would bring it to a total of 465ish with the same reliability.


I would also mess around with the auto trans and line pressure issues.

I got the new position at work but it will be 2-3 months before I start. It's going to be hard to decide between this or getting back into the racing scene in the GN. I have a ZR1 to kill still.

greco9885

iTrader: (1)

i know me and definitely a few other people would feel alot more comfortable after IHC tested it out. not to bash JandR, but IHC definitely knows his shit and knows alot about the auto tranny

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

IMHO, Lame excuses.

We all know that we'll either become good friends with our local dyno shop or at the very least, keep an eye on key parameters so we don't cook anything.

I don't plan on beating my TL or 'driving it like I stole it'. I just want to get to know more about tuning and have something cool to play with. I plan to run it initially at lower boost just to make sure those key parms are ok.

I do think IHC is a valuable resource and JnR could do better here by getting him hooked up especially for people who visit Azine, but to say that is a reason to buy or not is not a good reason. I doubt even his endorsement would bring back all the hordes of names on the original list.

I hate cars

I really appreciate the suggestion of giving me a break but with such a low volume, I'm sure J&R could not even if they wanted to. It looks like Rodney is doing a great job of "beating it up" so far.

If I get a kit in a few months I have a couple tricks that could pull a few more reliable hp out of it. Like I mentioned, one is an idea that I really can't get patented as it's the way the wastegate(s) is integrated into the system. I've never seen it done before but maybe I'll just give it up. I'm just leary, I had a manufacturing company PM me posing as an individual from the GN board asking questions about an awesome project I was working on with some really ground breaking stuff and next thing I know, I see my idea and my exact same setup being sold for $4,500. No mention of my name or credit so this is why I don't like giving out some of this research on the internet. Suffice to say I can make it spool quicker and at a lower rpm and pick up a solid 40hp that won't put any additional strain on the engine.

Maybe J&R would be interested in the info instead of a pricebreak?? Really all I want is to be remembered as the one who "invented" it.

JandR

Were a little dissappointed in the outcome so far , reason we had a lot of interest and request for more performance products & support on that note we have an undisclosed manufacturer who stepped up and is willing to help our community by developing a programmable piggy back ecu that would work for our specific application , which could be used by s/c guys , turbo or nitrous application .. What we have works but system specifically destined for our cars is unbeatable.. For the most part we hope people come around ...

JandR

Working along with you to make kit better wouldn't be a problem at all we would definetly be able to do more if we have more interest like we did from the start......

greco9885

iTrader: (1)

without a doubt, if the 30 or so people that signed up actually sent the deposit, more things can be done

Opel

dude, thats harsh, i know how that feels and im sorry to hear.....sometimes i dont wanna share shit, for that simple reason

ballerjai

I thank you JandR for building us a turbo kit, I can't wait till you have a type-s setup.. till then I'll be saving up to support you!

If i win the 325 mega million jackpot.. TURBO KITS FOR ALL! hahaha

pass427

ive seen a lot of types guys out there waiting to see kit on the types but jandr is at a standstill with the types for now until we can secure some deposits unfortunately,and its really hurting us more than helping been a vendor ,we already have a types auto loaner on hold from a member on the site,its just a matter of getting a secured list to make it happen.....

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

As the saying goes "One Bitten, Twice Shy"

spade0698

pass427, send me the link to make a deposit for the Type-S...You should see it sometime next week. Been out of the loop for a little while. I might just send money one or twice a month until turbo is paid for by November/December timeframe. This might help a little.

spade0698

pass427

http://www.jandrnextlevelperformance.com/products. Thank you spade0698 I'll start the types list later now we have 2 official types .....

pearlite TL

iTrader: (1)

i know i have said i will go with the kit for the Type S also. But wasn't really sure if it was going to go that far. Let me get finished with the axle project for my Jeep and i will gladly send a deposit to get this on our Type S's

spiike

I've thought about this kit for awhile, and from a financial analyst's perspective (which is what I do all day and extremely well)... If you can somehow bring the price under 5k... even $4,999, the kit will have MUCH better marketability.

Maddizm

iTrader: (5)

^ Then the kit probably wouldn't be complete. Even with the S/C you have to spend more money to make it REALLY good (and safe).

pass427

We've tried our best to lower the kit price but there's no possible way right now to do that , on the other hand probably if I had just slap the kit together drive it for two days no r&d then that probably would be the only way possible ,so everyone understand sometimes we look at it and even wonder if it's worth it, there's not really a profit even shipping included , but from the way I see I'd do it again feeling and power is priceless ........

Lazer187

iTrader: (1)

I'm a n00b ive seen the term used probably 30x but what does R&D stand for, ive come to the conclusion that its something to do with testing....?

spiike

I definitely understand the situation you guys are in. I want to suggest cost cutting methods but it is hard to sacrifice quality (which we all know is absolute top with this kit) for marketability based on demand (not I want but want and can afford).

Personally I would love to see this kit on every person's car on this forum. Someone mentioned that the M3 kit is $13k. But analytically the consumer basis that purchases the M3 (upper $40k) has much deeper pockets than the consumer who purchases a $30k car.

How does your kit differ from these kits (my college buddy has one for the s2000)?
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/part...s/Bolt_On/9232
His was bought right at $5k, and was a fully bolt on kit with engine management.


R&D stands for research and development. The cost for the time it takes to develop, design, and test a product. How much do you value your time? How much does it cost for repeat dynos? How much does it cost to fabricate the product, and the time it takes to make the deals with suppliers... etc

pass427

^^difference is power gains in our kit is almost doublewell doubled for that fact, lot more support and parts available for a s2,and way more complicated than a s2, which required way more technical help and testing which hasnt stopped,and last but not least way easier to get s2 done in its 4cyl compare to our v6...

I hate cars

For one, it looks like they're using some sort of factory Mitsubishi turbos, Greddy doesn't make turbos. I'm assuming they're a standard journal bearing turbo. They're basically '90s turbo technology. The new PTE turbos will spool better, offer less back pressure, last longer, make more power.

It doesn't say what type of intercooler is with the kit but if the turbo is any indication, it's likely a cheaper less efficient intercooler.

I don't see a downpipe offered.

All I see is a cast manifold which is impossible with the TL.

Also don't see a BOV which the TL kit has top of the line HKS.

Don't see what type of wastegate they're running but the Tial one in the TL kit is top notch and you won't have to upgrade later on when you get sick of boost creep issues.

I didn't see a fuel pump offered either.

I may just be missing these pieces but if I'm right, it's pretty signifigant.

Again, just the turbo in the TL kit retails for $1,500 and the intercooler for close to $1,000 from what I remember. You could make the argument that the TL kit is a better bargain for the parts that are offered. It's the "extra" that they put into the TL kit that will take it from a miserable, laggy, peaky turbo setup to a torquey fun to drive setup.

I suppose they could offer the kit without the BOV and intercooler but that would mean another few months of R&D as tuning would be completely different and it would take away a good 70hp.

spiike

What if we make the current turbo application as a stage 2 as it uses the best parts.

Offer a stage 1 with a journal bearing turbo, take off the bov, and use a less efficient intercooler that performs the job within thresholds. Essentially the bare bones for the setup.

HP will be less, but use it as a hook to get people into the turbo application. Then they can change out the blower, add a bov, or change the intercooler once funds are available. Although performance will have a small hit, it will still meet consumer expectations for a turbo application that wont break the bank.