Uni -Chip Owners Only Discussion Thread......

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Old 07-08-2004, 12:26 AM
  #321  
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great news cody
Old 07-08-2004, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by juice
Great News. I hope your new dyno shows good results. If so, I would feel comfortable telling Jack to send me one with your new map.
I wouldn't see a problem with it.. For me I'm weighing the option of a custom tune or sending it back for the updated tune.. Becuase of the misfires I couldn't dyno my chip and not sure if I want to just keep sending mine back til they fix it.. I have a feeling my car might be a little different from others..
Old 07-08-2004, 08:49 AM
  #323  
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I'm going for a dyno next Tuesday at Extreme Motorsports. Will post results then.
Old 07-08-2004, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by juice
Great News. I hope your new dyno shows good results. If so, I would feel comfortable telling Jack to send me one with your new map. Being everyone has seen high A/F ratios, I see no reason why mine would not be the same. What do you think?
Lets hope so. My current issues are (1) I’m not sure if I reduced the ratio enough as well as (2) I’m not sure if everyone else will have the same even leaner condition reflected during my dyno during VTEC. I’m hoping my a/f ratio is flat through out the whole power band and at an acceptable level. But without having made like at least 5 and more unichip runs on the dyno to yield a decent mean A/F value to work from, I’m not representing very actuate value. From the results I did have to work from it showed the factory ecu alone reduced the A/F ratio right after VTEC on the three runs I did and the unichip increased the A/F ratio right after and during VTEC on the 2 runs I did with it. My goal with this new MAP was to both lower the whole A/F ratio across the entire band and flatten it as much as possible. It’s a lot to expect from just a couple of dyno results and then reprogramming offsite but I have no unichip tuner where I live and I didn’t want to keep it running so lean. It’s somewhat of a calculated adjustment but still a big risk. We’ll just have to let dyno speak for itself….. butt dyno still says yes, hope I don’t have to recalibrate it.

Tim
Old 07-08-2004, 10:57 AM
  #325  
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i installed the p&p harness and unichip module this monday. my initial impression is that the engine performance is slightly enhanced during partial throttle accel up to v-tech engagement. v-tech now is somewhat "seamless" with no burst of power.as before. at wot tires no longer "chirp" at 1-2 shift and i percieve an actual loss of power from 45k rpm to redline. im disappointed in the performance gain to date. i will concede additional time with this chip installed may change my perception. we'll see. i intend to call jack @ unichip to share my impressions with him. i am considering a trip to naperville, ill. tuner shop for a custom tune (mod incl. I/H only)
Old 07-08-2004, 12:57 PM
  #326  
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Unichip has my car now. Will report back after 4pm pacific time.
Old 07-08-2004, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by BC
Will report back after 4pm pacific time.
PLEASE do...!!
Old 07-08-2004, 06:04 PM
  #328  
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Just sent my graphs to Todd at unichip to get some answers and hopefully a fix.
Old 07-08-2004, 07:25 PM
  #329  
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...molten mass of alum....oops, thought I was on the foundry forum.

Jack says that road tests show that the chip has given my engine an optimum 13-13.2 A/F ratio.
Dyno runs tomorrow. Do we want maximum dyno numbers or max street performance? Are they the same?
Old 07-08-2004, 07:53 PM
  #330  
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Originally Posted by BC
...molten mass of alum....oops, thought I was on the foundry forum.

Jack says that road tests show that the chip has given my engine an optimum 13-13.2 A/F ratio.
Dyno runs tomorrow. Do we want maximum dyno numbers or max street performance? Are they the same?
Does your chip still have the same map that was sent to everyone?

What, if any, or the gains?
Old 07-08-2004, 08:44 PM
  #331  
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13.2 is still pretty good...right about where u want it to be. Who's doing the dynos??
Old 07-08-2004, 09:02 PM
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13.2 is perfect. I'm still a little higher than that, but my car made more power around 13.7 than it did at 13.2.
Old 07-08-2004, 09:21 PM
  #333  
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Originally Posted by mrsteve
13.2 is perfect. I'm still a little higher than that, but my car made more power around 13.7 than it did at 13.2.
Hopefully we are getting somewhere!
Old 07-08-2004, 09:54 PM
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I've called Jack several times and haven't made much progress.. Has anyone else contacted him..?!? We need to push the issue here..

Steve already sacrificed his time and money for us, let's push a alittle harder..
Old 07-08-2004, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonesi
I've called Jack several times and haven't made much progress.. Has anyone else contacted him..?!? We need to push the issue here..

Steve already sacrificed his time and money for us, let's push a alittle harder..
I have tried by email and have not heard anthing. I will be out of town this weekend. If we don't have a solution by the time I get back, I will try to contact them.
Old 07-08-2004, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonesi
Steve already sacrificed his time and money for us, let's push a alittle harder..

I'm about down to my last
Old 07-08-2004, 10:20 PM
  #337  
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Originally Posted by BC
Jack says that road tests show that the chip has given my engine an optimum 13-13.2 A/F ratio.
Dyno runs tomorrow. Do we want maximum dyno numbers or max street performance? Are they the same?
Was this on the same map that everyone got or the modified map that he sent to cody (I think it was him). Need more info!

I think I will call Jack tomorrow to see whats going on with this updated map, I want it.
Old 07-08-2004, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by blader
Was this on the same map that everyone got or the modified map that he sent to cody (I think it was him). Need more info!

I think I will call Jack tomorrow to see whats going on with this updated map, I want it.
No, this was the preset map that seems to be working well for people on the west coast/Portland area..

I haven't been to the dyno but some of you guys have already and I'm sure you don't want to drop any more oney into this like Steve. I'd go to the dyno if it wasn't for consistent misfires.. But this updated map I doubt will help my car since I'm one of two that have misfires which shows my car is going to be different then others from the start..

We need to keep pushing for more answers/resolve on this before others drop more money into it.. All I can say is call him and forget the emails because that isn't getting us anywhere..
Old 07-08-2004, 10:52 PM
  #339  
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did u guys send you chips back to get em re-tuned.. we just send the chip and not the harness right???
Old 07-09-2004, 07:08 AM
  #340  
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Originally Posted by darrinb
did u guys send you chips back to get em re-tuned.. we just send the chip and not the harness right???
In my case, I just had Jack send out a new unichip cause I still want to compare the original MAP to the modified MAP during my next dyno. Of course I had to pay again but I'll be refunded when I send one of the two back. If and when you feel ready to commit to a modified MAP, all you send in is the part that contains the chip. Of course you have to remove the pnp harness they made for us and reconnect factory connectors back to the ECU until you get the unichip back installed.

TimR
Old 07-09-2004, 10:09 AM
  #341  
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i called jack @ unichip yesterday morning to discuss my concerns. no return call yet.
Old 07-09-2004, 10:09 AM
  #342  
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Email from Jack:


Brian,
Can you please pass the following words on to the GB guys...

Hey guys, I wanted to update you with what's going on and what to expect in the
near future. Thanks to the couple of guys who've sent in the dyno runs and A/F traces;
they're helpful.

Some of the cars are leaner without the Unichip installed in them than the cars we
saw here and what we're looking at another car to see how it compares. We just got it
today, and it's just like the other cars we saw here previously. We're also looking at
how the stock ECU responds to water and air temperature both on the road and on the dyno.
Right now I've seen the dyno's for 3 cars running a bit lean and 3 other cars running
absolutely perfect, and I want to figure out why. The first guy who found his car too
lean on the dyno got it retuned and, despite a worse 60' time and higher temperatures,
turned the best trap speed he's done... because of the Unichip.

Bottom line, whether your car is lean or right on as it sits, the Unichip is
permitting us/your tuner to move the A/F ratio where ever we want it to go. It's doing
what we told it to do; it's just that some of your cars are leaner than we anticipated
from what we saw on the development vehicles in "stock" condition - i.e. before the
Unichip is even installed. We/your tuner has the ability to make the A/F ratio go
anywhere from about 8 all the way up to 18... that's not a problem. The issue is figuring
out why the cars in question are reacting the way they are and making a logical, correct
change to the map so the problem is fixed.

The car we looked at again today, a GB guy who got a pre-programmed kit just like
everybody else, had a 13.2 A/F ratio which is exactly where we wanted it to be... and
exactly like the other two cars we've used. Again, we don't know why the cars in question
are leaner in stock trim but that's the entire issue. When we pull the "correct" amount
of fuel for the car's we've seen which are 1 A/F point richer than the cars in question,
it's making the cars in question 1 A/F point too lean. Making those cars 1 A/F ratio
richer is simple, but isn't the issue, and we want to know why so we're making the correct
change the first time out.

We can make the change right now, but what everybody should really want is the
right change. We know what "numbers" to change to get the A/F to the desired point, but
I'd like to be able to see if there's a rhyme or reason to which cars should get which
maps rather than panicking. In the end, you'll all get the map/A/F you want (at no cost),
but let's take a couple of days and figure out why.

Thanks again for your purchase and early next week we'll be able to offer you a
revised map if you should get one or if you want one.

Thanks Brian.

Cheers,
Jack



Jack Friedman, General Manager
Unichip of North America
www.unichip.us
Toll free 1.866.643.7400
Local 1.503.6407465
Fax 1.503.214.6444
edited for spacing on the email.
Old 07-09-2004, 05:04 PM
  #343  
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sweet deal man...yeah I'm tryin to not harass them w/ phonecalls and e-mails because I know theyre workin on it and i am paitient. Shit we waited like 4 months for this to come to reality...It's summer now when our cars allready run slower than normal so if they need to fine tune and diag to make me happy...then go ahead
Old 07-09-2004, 11:19 PM
  #344  
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thanks for posting the e-mail brain, i guess imma send my chip out to them on monday
Old 07-10-2004, 12:00 AM
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Okay, so I'm curious as to everyone else's opinions here. I spent the $608 on the chip. Plus $135 for my initial dyno; this proved the UniChip was too lean. Then I paid $235 for the custom tune of the UniChip on my car. This brings the total very close to $1,000. When I look at it like that, this mod really isn't worth it. UniChip is only re-imbursing me $100 for my custom tune. In my opinion I should be full re-imbursed for the $235 it cost. Do you all feel the same?
Old 07-10-2004, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by mrsteve
Okay, so I'm curious as to everyone else's opinions here. I spent the $608 on the chip. Plus $135 for my initial dyno; this proved the UniChip was too lean. Then I paid $235 for the custom tune of the UniChip on my car. This brings the total very close to $1,000. When I look at it like that, this mod really isn't worth it. UniChip is only re-imbursing me $100 for my custom tune. In my opinion I should be full re-imbursed for the $235 it cost. Do you all feel the same?
no the initial dyno is something you should have wanted to do even if you had no problems....the custom tune wasnt required you could have sent it back and had it done for nothing...
Old 07-10-2004, 10:53 AM
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I understand the inital dyno is something I should pay for, I agree. But even if I sent the chip back to them, had them adjust it, I would need to get another dyno again to make sure what they did actually worked.

I see where you are coming from though.
Old 07-10-2004, 11:09 AM
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i talked to jack about that also steve, i was expectign them to pay for the custom tune, but he said only 100. but the nearest dealer is like 4 hrs from me so i am gonna send it back to him for the new map.

right now i spent 633 shipped for the chip and 100 for baseline and uni-chip pulls
Old 07-10-2004, 11:11 AM
  #349  
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Hey guys, I'm the one with the modified unichip. Got to the dyno shop the morn' right when they opened and pulled around the corner and boom... entrance is blocked off, the parking lot filled with mustangs... damn car show, no dynos today. Told you guys I was getting a dyno today. Just wanted to keep you in the loop. I really wanted to get this info today to assist in the changes we need to our program. Oh well, gotta go do some stuff. Get off the computer and go enjoy your Sat.



TimR
Old 07-10-2004, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by mrsteve
I understand the inital dyno is something I should pay for, I agree. But even if I sent the chip back to them, had them adjust it, I would need to get another dyno again to make sure what they did actually worked.

I see where you are coming from though.
no...you could goto the track...race a friend you always race ...other things like that...a dyno is not a very good measure of success of a mod
Old 07-10-2004, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by typeR
no...you could goto the track...race a friend you always race ...other things like that...a dyno is not a very good measure of success of a mod

But it is a very good measure of A/F ratio which was the problem. Don't know how I could figure that out by going to the track.
Old 07-10-2004, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by mrsteve
But it is a very good measure of A/F ratio which was the problem. Don't know how I could figure that out by going to the track.
i guess...im going by had there been no problems...,i see your point too...i guess I just go by the test and tune nature of mods
Old 07-10-2004, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by typeR
...a dyno is not a very good measure of success of a mod
explain



wouldn't a mod that added power to the car show up on a dyno?
Old 07-10-2004, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by typeR
no...you could goto the track...race a friend you always race ...other things like that...a dyno is not a very good measure of success of a mod
And I could have saved all that money in dyno sessions.

Huh, it is the epitome of determining the power added through a mod. Although racing can also help to see if there was a change. It is not a solid tool either. Traction issues, launch issue, not to mention changes in weather and how various cars react differently.
Old 07-10-2004, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by mattg
explain



wouldn't a mod that added power to the car show up on a dyno?
dyno is good for tuning IMO but not for determining the real world results of the mod...thats where the track comes in....

example: dougs dyno of the 3.5L upgrade I/H is about 10-12 hp over mikes dyno and 15 lb.ft. 2500$ + install most people that see the dyno say not worth it...however half-a-second faster in the 1/4 .5 faster than the fastest I/H CL-S 3/4's better than what i had previously done...2500 well spent ,but it was the track that determined that not the dyno...last point this has been echoed by hondata and RSX' with the flash the 10-12 hp bump from top to bottom is not felt by most because it's consistant yet the gains are there and the track shows it....regaurdless of the "feel" or the dyno
Old 07-10-2004, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by typeR
dyno is good for tuning IMO but not for determining the real world results of the mod...thats where the track comes in....

example: dougs dyno of the 3.5L upgrade I/H is about 10-12 hp over mikes dyno and 15 lb.ft. 2500$ + install most people that see the dyno say not worth it...however half-a-second faster in the 1/4 .5 faster than the fastest I/H CL-S 3/4's better than what i had previously done...2500 well spent ,but it was the track that determined that not the dyno...last point this has been echoed by hondata and RSX' with the flash the 10-12 hp bump from top to bottom is not felt by most because it's consistant yet the gains are there and the track shows it....regaurdless of the "feel" or the dyno

IOW, difference in: 'area under the curve' ....
Old 07-10-2004, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by EricL
IOW, difference in: 'area under the curve' ....
point being dyno's dont always reveal the true measure of what effect the mod in question well benefit the car
Old 07-10-2004, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by typeR
point being dyno's dont always reveal the true measure of what effect the mod in question well benefit the car

I'd hope that would be clear...

OTOH, if you saw a relative difference and it was going downward, you shouldn't cheer unless you were going to predict that in some advanced model.

And, when you look at the area under the curve, depending on the gear, aero resistance, and other factors, you would need to weigh the gains in various parts of the curve against the resistance forces that are non-linear. Does that make sense? That's one of the reasons you can't data straight off the dyno. OTOH, if you don’t think that is existing F1 computer software solutions that will track dyno data back to track data within a few percent, you're smoking crack…

1. The drum is a fixed weight; the cars have different weights.

2. The rollers are not computing a drag force that is equal or equivalent to the "predicted" resistance that would be derived from aero, rolling, inertial, and other areas that would be seen in the real world.

3. Then, you have the issue of temperature, size of fans, and other issues.

4. Go have a look over at the Dinan site and check out the monster blowers and the changes he gets in HP/TQ from changing the air flow rates...

Someone could probably right a 1000-page paper on all of this...

It's a tool... So's the track...

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1

http://dinancars.com/whitepapersFile.asp?ID=9
Old 07-10-2004, 09:44 PM
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Picked up my car today from Jack. Looked at graphs and got an hour tutorial on A/F ratios, sampling rates, butt dynos, etc. Looks like the gains were at about 3k to 4k rpms and 5.5k to redline. 8 to 12 max gains in hp and tq each area. Only 2 or 3 ponies gain in between. This is with a custom map.
On my car, power started falling off gradually after 6400 rpm. I didn't get a printout as I wouldn't know how to display it anyway.
My impressions? Jack is genuine, the gains are there, and some of our cars react surprisingly differently to one map.
I'm out, sieze ya.
Old 07-10-2004, 11:05 PM
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So you say 8-12 max gains, is this a "peak" gain or just the gains throughout the powerband? What were your gains at peak? Meaning if the max whp you put down w/o the chip was 220, what was the max whp w/ the chip?


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