the tdc sensors for the 2003 cls 6 speed, which two are needed, are the same sensors that are required for the 2005rl which only one is needed. The part numbers are the same. I didn't check the sensor for the 06rl.

Serge, remember how the crankshaft for the later model 3.5 was about 1/2" shorter? I'm sure that has something to do with cams being shorter as well in regards to belt alignment. I'm still not sure if that crank will work because of that shortfall in length. If the rl oil pump is recessed to accomadate the crank gear to allow it to align with the cam gears; then that expensive crank is useless. I guess I need to order up the rl gears and complete front part of the motor and test fit it.

another unknown answer to several questions is, if the rl cam gears, and crank gear work on the 6 spd motor, will the rl tensioner bolt up to the cl oil pump, can I use the cl tensioner with the rl gears and belt, there are more questions. It mostly revolves around the crankshaft I'm planning to use.

 

also, if it will fit the 03 6speed, and the main problem is the TDC sensor and surrounding assembly, why not just swap the 6 speed TD sensor/assembly into the into the engine bay?

or are the TDC sensors different?

 

Thank you 02AV6 for in depth analysis and details incl. photos . Too bad RL cams are short.

 

can anyone verify those TDC sensors are recessed at all vs. the 5AT sensors?

 

I've been following the site and this thread for a while, can't seem to get my old user info back, so I registered again today.
I was hoping this project would be successful, oh well and thanks for the hard work Serge.

 

i dotn know if i would give up totally yet there's still one more chance...

 

thanks to typeR there may be another option... or two, but first we need questions answered...

serge, i only got a look at the RL cams for a short time, and they were dropped off, so i can't determine this, but are the RL cams hollow/solid? CL-S cams, hollow/solid?

 

WEB CAM wants alook at both... CL cams MIGHT beable to get the RL profile for 550$ total...might theres a few things they need t know and they basically would like to have all four cams in there hand to know for sure

 

You cant make a cl cam lobe specs into a rl cam lobe specs without welding material onto the cl cams. i've never been a fan of welding material onto a cam and then massaging it to whatever lift your looking for.

 

im not so sure if theyre talking about welding meterial on as adding a new section then grinding it down to match ...and again they asked about being hollow and maybe something like balloning?

 

I was really hoping to do this mod , oh well. Good luck Serge and Clean with your projects

 

you're local enough, i might have some tricks up my sleeve to get the cams in the car. we'll see how things play out over the next couple of days.

 

But they do fit the CLS 6 perfectly without any problems, correct?

 

So there might be a possibility that there is a slight difference between the CLS 6 and CLS 5AT heads....Dont understand why Acura would do that just to distinguish a 6 speed and the 5AT. I would love to have my engines on hand to help you guys out. So on the CLS 6 the TDC sensors are located elsewhere compared to the CLS 5AT?

 

the front RL cam gear:

 

Would you count the teeth on them?

 

46 teeth on the front gear.

46 teeth on rear.

i was told the 3.2 crank gear has 23 teeth.

math works? but does fitment.

 

the same as the 3.2. I'm wondering if the tdc sensor/s are in the same location on the back plate on the cl as the rl. is your motor available to you to compare the rl gear to the cl gear? if so, can you compare the trigger mechcanizm on those gears?

 

when comparing the two pictures the RL cam gears appear to be offset ...i dont wonder if thinjims short crank issue might also be resolved in the same way?

 

i'm going to stop into my shop sometime this week and take some comparison photos. i'm not sure if the cams are in the heads yet.

 

i'm going to the shop tomorrow, i'll get whatever pictures i can. i also noticed this when i had the gear sitting on the table.


looks like we got our 1/2"

 

AAAaaah. So it's the gear that's the problem!!!.....?

 

maybe, a few things still need to be checked. keep your fingers crossed.

 

i got to the shop and grabbed the rear cam gear, and right away noticed the CL-S cam gear is much wider than the RL one. i didn't bother taking pictures. obviously the cl-s belt would be too wide for the RL cam gears.

i would buy the RL belt but i feel like this is just going to be a wild goose chase. any input?

 

Yes, the belt is narrower. The CL timing belt shows two numbers, the honda OEM number, and a number that the belt manufacturer puts on it. I think this is the manufacturer part number which also represents the belt size. OEM number is 14400-P8A-A02. The other number is 197YU26. The last two numbers, and this is only a guess, is 26.... I think that means 26mm wide. Here is a picture of the 3.2L cl timing belt with a caliper on it showing it to be 26mm wide.





While I don't have the RL Belt, this is what I do have, the water pump off a 03 3.5. The water pump is driven off the timing belt. While the 03 3.5 water pump is a different part number from the 05 RL, however, both engines use the same timing belt. OEM number 14400-RCA-A01. The other number is 197YU20.
This number should reflect 20mm belt for the 3.5. I measured the water pump pulley with the caliper and it shows slightly over 20mm.






By the way, that water pump fits onto the cls engine.

I hope you'll take a couple pics comparing the two different gears. I'd like to see the differences in the trigger mechanizm on those gears and a picture of the cam plate that holds the sensors. I'd also be curious to see a pic of your timing belt on the RL gear and see how much it overlaps the gear. It doesn't have to be on the car for this. In the meantime I have ordered some parts and will mock up the front of this motor in the near future with pics.

 

the cl-s 6 speed cam gear is identical to the cl-s auto cam gear other than the pick up points on the rear of it, so i dont think it will work
cl-s auto on left and cl-s manual on right. the backing plates and sensors are also different between the auto and manual

 

i honestly think the RL cam gears will clear the sensors on the plate. but the belt is the issue now. even ordering a smaller belt is a problem, i would need to swap out a bunch of things, that i do not know for a fact bolt-up.

i'm putting the cams on hold, but their still in the back of my head. i really would like to get the motor done and the car back on the road at this point. any new info i will keep everyone updated.

 

There is not a chance that those pulleys will work with your cam sensors and ecu even if they did clear.

 

Yeah, the sensors are also the same between '05-'06 RL along with CL-S6 while CL-S auto are different:

RL | Part # 37840-PGE-A11 | Required Qty: 1
CL-S 6MT | Part # 37840-PGE-A11 | Required Qty: 2
CL-S 5AT | Part # 37840-P8A-A01 | Required Qty: 1 (set of 2 – TDC1/TDC2) same as my AV6.

Absolutely. The crankshaft starting from J35A5 (’03-04 MDX) all the way to J35A8 (‘05/06 RL) is too short when compared to J32A2.

Odyssey
J35A1 (’01)/ J35A4 (’02-04) block design/crankshaft/heads/camshaft length, etc. = J32A2
J35A6/A7 (‘05+) <> J32A2
MDX
J35A3 (’01-02) = J32A2
J35A5 (’03-04) <> J32A2
RL
J35A8 (’05-06) <> J32A2

The best bet is to use the crankshaft from one of the above version which = CL-S along with stock crank pulley. It is the same as CL-S and according to my shop the J-series Honda factory crankshaft is extremely strong. Otherwise, using different model components like cam gears along with timing belt drive pulley is questionable in terms of belt alignment and overall workability.

RL cams are solid same as CL-S. Not sure on material they made of.

 

Here is another set of comparison photos between RL and CL-S (auto) cam gears.



Major difference is the width and minor - gear teeth with slightly better clearance to the TDC sensors. So, we can’t use the RL gears along with narrow timing belt which would’ve been also required the timing belt Drive pulley and possibly the crank pulley.

So, there is a truly one option – CUSTOM CAMS (based on CL-S length) with price depending on demand. Here are the couple companies who can work something out and if someone wants to volunteer, both J32 and J30 guys can utilize them and benefit low-end torque and overall power band gains. http://www.jonescams.com/2006catalog_001.htm
http://www.kamsinc.com/

There is another alternative one can try but I predict it’s very slim:
Since CL-S (manual) gear is equal in width as CL-S (auto) but has similar flat teeth as RL unit it allows minor clearance advantage to TDC sensors. Speaking of TDC sensors, the manual sensors can be used instead of auto with needed 4-pin harness. This allows further clearance to the sensors and better camshaft alignment to the gear. However, since the cam gear will sit closer to the sensors and even with a safe clearance, the timing belt will be off a little but might be enough to cause misalignment from the Drive pulley (on the bottom) and it’s a safety issue. CleanCL might try it to confirm while the engine is out since it’s much easier to install the belt, however I doubt it’s going to work.

 

Damn Honda, looks like custom cams is the solution.
And I think only 3rd gen. TL and 7th gen. AV6 can use RL cams as direct fitment, right?

 

maybe we should start a sign up sheet or something for people with J30 and J32 interested in custom cams. If we get enough people we'll contact the companies and have them give us a quote.

 

I'm in for a group buy for custom cams.

 

Yep, more like a direct fit since I remember someone measured new AV6 cam and it was shorter than CL-S. However, it doen't make sense as RL cams are not that much different than those and money can be spent elsewhere. NEW AV6/TL cams are identical and already have great lift/diration and RL cams + labor won't be worth just the gain.

Here is the difference which is very minimal:

J35A8 '05+ RL
(PRI), (MID), (SEC), (EXH)
35.284,36.445,35.284,36.389

J32A3 - '04+ TL
35.041,36.445,35.284,36.326
J30A4 - '03+ AV6
35.041,36.445,35.284,36.326

Now, for CL-S as discussed the RL numbers would be more beneficial but the fitment path - CUSTOM.