I think we both know the answer to that, but I am not a pro with the inner internals of an engine. Doesn't the ECU set the idle level between 7-900 for our car, will the computer compensate for the new cams. Because isnt the ecu different for the RL thats why it doesnt idle rough.

 

the idle rpms won't change. like i said, there maybe be a SMALL lope in the exhaust noise, but i think you would just barely notice it only if you had aftermarket exhaust. but engine side, you really aren't going to be able to tell.

you might be used to seeing aftermarket cams, which the whole cam is made to be aggressive. the lift change we are talking about is not aggressive by any means, and the exhaust lift isn't changed at all. so i'm starting to think you won't notice a thing at idle.

 

I guess the best thing to do is to wait and see.

 

who's getting the cams put in again?

i'm very excited to hear if there will be any gains..

 

I'd say if you swapped in only the cams, you could proabbly see a 10-15 whp/tq peak gain in the affected area. (low or high end, didn't feel like reading to find out which one is affected again).

I say this because swapping in the J32A2 cams into the J30A1 gains about 10-15 whp/tq (with a tune), and has about the same difference in lift as between the CLS and RL cams.

 

i would love to see a n/a j32 see a peak of 15 whp/tq. but i don't think it'll happen.

as for a tune. of course it would help, but would require unichip/emanage to be custom tuned.

i plan on getting a custom tune late summer/early fall.

 

i thought the unichip for the 2nd gen CL's weren't any good?

 

imo, their good if their tuned. they can perform nearly the same operations as an emanage in terms of gaining performance, but are also harder to come by the chips and tuners. but i bought one last year for half the price of an emanage (not to mention there is no 'available' PnP harness for the emanage) and there is a guy in CT that can tune for me. i'm shooting for a 10-15 whp gain with the tune, but who knows.

 

yes there is a harness garage kwai installed my emanagement last week with the harness there was no improvement over the vtech controller since Istill havent got a s/c yet

 

i thought for the 2nd Gen CL, a custom harness had to be made. any good tuning shop can do it, but i didn't think you could just buy one over the counter, and plug it in.

even without the blower, you should still be able tune afr curves and tweak the system, no?

 

There is ia PnP harness for e-manage i bought it a couple of months ago i think they even have one for the ultimate here is the site for anyone whois interested.
PnP Harness

 

y do you even need the emanage system... I heard it only gains a couple HP.

 

I am also curious and possibly interested in doing this. I cant wait to hear the results.

 

:smacks self: sorry for any misinformation.

 

don't worry, they only recently (within the past 5-6 months) started doing the harnesses. At first serge (02AV6) got a custom harness from them, and then they just decided to get all the diagrams for all the J3x engines.

btw, the 15 whp I stated was a peak gain estimate. I would say more realistically like 10 hp/tq. average gain of the affected area under the curve.

 

i thought it was recent, plus they aren't officially 'greddy' they are custom made, techncially. lol.

i hope your right though! that would mean an even bigger gain on my 3.5 project! but i'm expect something along the lines of 15 for myself, whereas most would probably see around 10.

 

actually scratch what I estimated before. here are the three lobe specs:
lobe - J30A1 - cl cam - rl cam

pri 34.615 - 34.737mm - 35.284mm
mid 36.210 - 36.445mm - 36.445mm
sec 31.188 - 34.919mm - 35.284mm
exh 36.076 - 36.389mm - 36.389mm

so, looks like overall between the 3 there is very little or no difference in exhaust. Primary is less than .7mm difference. Mid is little to no difference as well.

secondary differnece is pretty big between J30A1 and CLS cams (almost 3mm) which would explain the 10-15 whp gain in the top end for us J30A1 guys. Meanwhile the difference between the CLS and RL cams is only about .5mm for primary and .36mm for secondary.

after looking at the differences more closely, I woudlnt expect more than 5-7 whp/tq, even with a tune with a straight RL cam swap into a CLS

 

Nice pics! Good luck

 

Wow!

 

Yep, I've sent them ECU diagrams and they eventually purchased the rest of J-series.

Make sure you check if your VTEC in/out feeds are bypassed, otherwise you'll get CEL at full boost and car bogs with fuel cutoff upon switchover point at 4800rpm.

They aware of the situation after I called them up and also going to fix my Ultimate PnP harness (made by them) so I can finally try it when time permits. The quality is great however, just couple things needs to be fixed so anyone with J30/J32 can use it to it's full potential.

 

There is a price and part # difference between '05 and '06. I'm sure it's Honda stunt to confuse even more since RL heads have not been changed between the years, thus should be no cams difference. We'll see about it next Tuesday with my '06 but again looks like a direct fit.

 

That's awesome I had no idea!

So is anyone using the e-Manage Ultimate successfully?

 

for whoever's information, i ordered the '05 cams. we shall see, i really doubt there is a difference in the part itself. lift/durations are all the same.

 

I've been wondering about the Ultimate as well.

 

just as a heads up you will get a fuel cut at change over if low on oil

 

still waiting, any luck

 

I had the Ultimate installed a few weeks ago once again no more HP or Torque over vtech controller tryed changing timing ,but known diff will have to wait for S/C

 

have you played with redline?

 

Update.

As mentioned, I purchased ’06 cams for several reasons:

1. Since the bare cylinder heads are the same between ’05 and ’06 along with cam gears and TDC sensors, thus both cams should be identical in length to fit.

2. With that thought I purchased the ’06 units considering the price advantage.

Here is a list of parts mentioned highlighted with the same number between the years.



Now, what’s confusing above is that each cam part # is different between ’05 and ‘06. This I suspect has also reflected the difference for complete cyl. heads (general assembly)

Tonight, I stopped by the shop, and snapped some pics of my ’03 CL-S cams next to ’06 RL. Guess what, RL cams are in fact shorter and yes I lined them up fine. Each highlighted frame represents the similarities while the rest is different.



And here is the close-up with a red line and highlighted rectangular showing RL cam is shorter in length. Yet, notice the top CL-S cam has different shape notch (inside red frame).



What does this all mean:

The RL cam fits, however since it shorter than CL-S it would be too close to the sensors. Yep, totally opposite the shorter the cam the closer it sits to the TDC sensors along with suspected cam gear reposition resulting in timing belt misalignment. Of course this is not an absolute conclusion and the shop going to check couple things tomorrow, however to me ’06 cams are different and true operation safety even when installed is in question.

Now, since Tom (thinjim) said ’05 units fit his second set of CL-S heads but I believe was never fired up to confirm they work, we still decided to double-check if there is a true length difference between '05 and '06. So, since the shop has connections, ‘05 cams were ordered and in about 3 business days we expect to receive them and compare to ’06. So that’s what we waiting for.

If they are indeed the same, I would have to return ’06, pay 20% restocking fee and forget about it. If not, then ’05 going in while ’06 still coming back.


To be continued….

 

thanks serge! can't wait to see if there's a different on the 05 vs 06.

 

Thanks!...the info is very appreciated. Can't wait to hear back about th 05 cams....

 

i think your image w/ the prices is wrong, they show same part numbers and prices.

my shop has my heads/05 cams, if they installed the cams into the head outside the car, then i have not been notified of fitment issues.

ps. the shorter length doesnt make much sense to me.

 

If you look below the red boxes you'll see the price and part numbers for the actual cams are diff

 

yes, the part numbers are different. here is another site showing different numbers.

05 RL numbers



FR.12005AcuraRL
00114100-RJA-000 CAMSHAFT, FR
00214200-RJA-000 CAMSHAFT, RR


06 RL numbers


00114100-RJA-J00 CAMSHAFT, FR.
00214200-RJA-J00 CAMSHAFT, RR.


It's been over a year since I bought these, the 05 RL cams, and I seem to remember comparing them to the stock cls cams with no issues, same length. The 05 RL cams are in my new heads, (not on the car). I can't compare them to the cls cams again as I sold them to someone on the board.

Serge, measure the cls cams you have and I'll measure the 05 RL cams I have for comparision.

 

Source - http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/jsp/catdisplay.jsp

Nope, read again. The highlighted bare heads/cam gears/TDC sensors are SAME parts/same prices between the years. Cams and complete heads are DIFFERENT as indicated as well.


First, your shop needs to drop the completed motor in, fire up the car and watch if everything works.

Second, what make sense to you is irrelevant to the confirmed results with '06. The FACT is '06 cam SHORT. So don't even try to question mine and my shop integrity and experience. I went through 3 different swaps and they proven to work reliable while you have yet to complete one, mkay?.

And while it didn't make sense to me either since as mentioned heads are totally the same between the years along with other essential parts, we have to wait until '05 delivery to compare and draw a final conclusion. Assuming they are different, Honda had to compensate the length difference with end caps and what not. We'll know about it soon.

 

Hey, I'll do both CL-S and '06 RL then we compare with your '05 while mine is on the way.

 

Nice info man and pics are awesome with those highlights .
Interesting 05 vs. 06. Maybe '06 more likely direct fit to 3rd gen. TL/7th gen. AV6

 

relax man. all i'm saying is that the cams should fit if the head is the same. thats logic. i understand your shop measured them, but like you and i both stated, heads are the same.

i have plenty of faith in my shop.

 

There is no longer a question whether or not they fit into heads. They do, however the real issue right now is how to make it work on CL-S since '06 RL front cam is shorter and can hit TDC sensor.

That is what I'm waiting for to find out if '05 cams are the same length as '06. If they are -it's not good. If not and they close to CL-S that's great.

 

Damn, I hope this works out I really want to do this mod, the cams, plus headers, and pulley will make me a happy man