Install in progress (low CR, boost,IC +)
#281
'Big Daddy Diggler'
WOW, man that's awesome. You took the game to the next level. Let me ask you though. Although i know you setup would be more stable, do you think going with a single turbo unit like allmotor did would gain you more power for less money. especially since the accord has lower compression than the j32a2 you would be able to bring boost earlier in the power band and have a fatter flatter curve.
#282
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Allmotor's turbo setup makes full boost at under 3k rpms... how much earlier do you want full boost?
Also, a supercharger will have a much flatter curve than a turbo setup.
Just remember, the 10% you lose just by turning the S/C'er is what makes the turbo make so much more power with half the boost... much more efficient compressor than the supercharger as well.
Bottom line... on our cars, a turbo will make more power with less boost... but a turbocharged car is under boost more often than a supercharged car.
Also, a supercharger will have a much flatter curve than a turbo setup.
Just remember, the 10% you lose just by turning the S/C'er is what makes the turbo make so much more power with half the boost... much more efficient compressor than the supercharger as well.
Bottom line... on our cars, a turbo will make more power with less boost... but a turbocharged car is under boost more often than a supercharged car.
#284
563hp daily
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by bigman
WOW, man that's awesome. You took the game to the next level. Let me ask you though. Although i know you setup would be more stable, do you think going with a single turbo unit like allmotor did would gain you more power for less money. especially since the accord has lower compression than the j32a2 you would be able to bring boost earlier in the power band and have a fatter flatter curve.
#285
563hp daily
Thread Starter
OK it's 321whp/261wtq, the disk with dyno plots was home when I put the numbers while visiting my parents and brother, so I guess I made a mistake for putting extra 5wtq .
This 321whp dyno results came up due to complete car cool down process, by adding 2 lbs of ICE in the reservoir, and removing the cover of the Ice Box to let the cone air filter get more air from blowing fan, plus we actually seen 10.5psi dropping to 10 by redline. This is the final results that my dyno guy and I tried to duplicate and only accomplished once. Thus, it is a perfect illustration of how temperature can affect the results.
Others were consistent in the range of 315-316whp/254-256wtq. However, this dyno machine typically shows lower numbers than the rest of Dynojets in the area and I have scheduled just for curiosity on May 21 to visit famous 10s EVO Dynojet house called AMS (Auto Moto Sports) to dyno my car again with current tuning. And I heard many times how bunch of guys came from AMS and said their numbers over there are much higher.
BTW, here is the comparison of my old dyno from 2003 (when I made 13.93s@ 101.8mph track pass) vs. new dyno (last Saturday). Check it out the power difference and look how lean I was with constant 100psi fuel pressure and still starving for fuel up top, and now hitting 95 to 90psi with E-Manage controlling the fuel delivery (stock CL-S injectors) and despite a slight lean condition up top by retarding to -3 and -4 degrees by the redline made the trick to stay safe and never get acquainted with detonation . With the boost your really need to have an ability of retard timing not to advance it and this is what E-Manage also does.
The tuning is basically done. The Exhaust and E-Manage made a significant gains in the midrange and ENTIRE POWERBAND. Here is the difference between previous dyno with stock exhaust/rims/not much tuning vs. current dyno with Neuspeed exhaust/light rims/complete tuning. The torque is significantly improved from 3.6Krpm all the way to redline.
stock exhaust, not much tuning
neuspeed exhaust, complete tuning
neuspeed exhaust, complete tuning + iCE + complete car cool down + ice box cover removed.
My FPR it actually fine don't need a replacement. It delivered the fuel pressure fine and the only obstacle prevents me to hit 330whp now with this low CR is actually stock restrictive AV6 ECU the one we unfortunately cannot replace. My dyno guy determined it's ECU that doesn't allow to see higher output numbers comparing to stock CL-S ECU with 6900rpm redline.
Finally, the driveability now is also changed since I have not much torque from the line due to exhaust and crazy gains starting from 3600rpm all the way to redline.
Next is the track results and I'll try to post video tomorrow or wednesday .
Thanks for reading!
This 321whp dyno results came up due to complete car cool down process, by adding 2 lbs of ICE in the reservoir, and removing the cover of the Ice Box to let the cone air filter get more air from blowing fan, plus we actually seen 10.5psi dropping to 10 by redline. This is the final results that my dyno guy and I tried to duplicate and only accomplished once. Thus, it is a perfect illustration of how temperature can affect the results.
Others were consistent in the range of 315-316whp/254-256wtq. However, this dyno machine typically shows lower numbers than the rest of Dynojets in the area and I have scheduled just for curiosity on May 21 to visit famous 10s EVO Dynojet house called AMS (Auto Moto Sports) to dyno my car again with current tuning. And I heard many times how bunch of guys came from AMS and said their numbers over there are much higher.
BTW, here is the comparison of my old dyno from 2003 (when I made 13.93s@ 101.8mph track pass) vs. new dyno (last Saturday). Check it out the power difference and look how lean I was with constant 100psi fuel pressure and still starving for fuel up top, and now hitting 95 to 90psi with E-Manage controlling the fuel delivery (stock CL-S injectors) and despite a slight lean condition up top by retarding to -3 and -4 degrees by the redline made the trick to stay safe and never get acquainted with detonation . With the boost your really need to have an ability of retard timing not to advance it and this is what E-Manage also does.
The tuning is basically done. The Exhaust and E-Manage made a significant gains in the midrange and ENTIRE POWERBAND. Here is the difference between previous dyno with stock exhaust/rims/not much tuning vs. current dyno with Neuspeed exhaust/light rims/complete tuning. The torque is significantly improved from 3.6Krpm all the way to redline.
stock exhaust, not much tuning
neuspeed exhaust, complete tuning
neuspeed exhaust, complete tuning + iCE + complete car cool down + ice box cover removed.
My FPR it actually fine don't need a replacement. It delivered the fuel pressure fine and the only obstacle prevents me to hit 330whp now with this low CR is actually stock restrictive AV6 ECU the one we unfortunately cannot replace. My dyno guy determined it's ECU that doesn't allow to see higher output numbers comparing to stock CL-S ECU with 6900rpm redline.
Finally, the driveability now is also changed since I have not much torque from the line due to exhaust and crazy gains starting from 3600rpm all the way to redline.
Next is the track results and I'll try to post video tomorrow or wednesday .
Thanks for reading!
#292
563hp daily
Thread Starter
Alright.
Went to the track last night for the TEST after posted Neuspeed exhaust & completed tuning. Almost tore apart my stock CV boots but they alive .
Most disappointment was Dr. Evil 4AT slipped 3 times during the runs , so I have to pay a visit to Dr. Evil this Saturday . I was pissed since I lost the precious time.
However, the upcoming VIDEO will show still not bad (13.4s) time I managed to pull during the tranny slippage.
Here it the time slip:
Also, according to others the track condition was not good.
SRT-4 stage 2 ran 14.5 and 14.0
Modded Z06 ran 12.5 while usually he said he runs 11.8
Modded Trans Am WS6 ran 13.6
Went to the track last night for the TEST after posted Neuspeed exhaust & completed tuning. Almost tore apart my stock CV boots but they alive .
Most disappointment was Dr. Evil 4AT slipped 3 times during the runs , so I have to pay a visit to Dr. Evil this Saturday . I was pissed since I lost the precious time.
However, the upcoming VIDEO will show still not bad (13.4s) time I managed to pull during the tranny slippage.
Here it the time slip:
Also, according to others the track condition was not good.
SRT-4 stage 2 ran 14.5 and 14.0
Modded Z06 ran 12.5 while usually he said he runs 11.8
Modded Trans Am WS6 ran 13.6
#293
563hp daily
Thread Starter
Despite the fact transmission let me down, I feel it's a high 12s car with good traction. It strong and pulls crazy as soon as I hook up with constant 10-10.5psi.
The interesting part is that when I was getting hard on the highway it never let me down, until I took to the track last night. It slipped from 2nd to 3rd gear left in D4 and several times when tried to shift from 3rd to 4th.
The interesting part is that when I was getting hard on the highway it never let me down, until I took to the track last night. It slipped from 2nd to 3rd gear left in D4 and several times when tried to shift from 3rd to 4th.
#294
563hp daily
Thread Starter
Despite the fact transmission let me down, I feel it's a high 12s car with good traction. It strong and pulls crazy as soon as I hook up with constant 10-10.5psi and it's a beast in 3rd gear.
The interesting part is that when I was getting hard on the highway it never let me down, until I took to the track last night. It slipped from 2nd to 3rd gear left in D4 and several times when tried to shift from 3rd to 4th.
The interesting part is that when I was getting hard on the highway it never let me down, until I took to the track last night. It slipped from 2nd to 3rd gear left in D4 and several times when tried to shift from 3rd to 4th.
#296
with the numbers put down you have a lot to improve on, you should be trapping in the 110+ range with that much whp. and your 60's look good. with radials you might break 1.9's
#298
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Originally Posted by bryanz3.0cl
with the numbers put down you have a lot to improve on, you should be trapping in the 110+ range with that much whp. and your 60's look good. with radials you might break 1.9's
He should be able to hit a 1.9 on street tires. I hit a 2.000 on street tires and stock wheels with less torque. His wheels weigh about 10lbs less each.
And 110+ is a little optomistic. The gearing on the AV6 is very tall compared to the CL-S. Thus, its hard to compare whp = trap vs whp = trap on these two cars given the vast gearing differences.
#300
563hp daily
Thread Starter
Thanks Steve again
I had a conversation with Dr. Evil and going to drop the car sometime next week to run tests and monitor what ECU is doing and response from transmission. BTW, Redline oil looks fine to me both level and color.
Also my installer said due to engine movements on hard start could also cause the tranny issues since I never experienced any slippage from the highway 'rolls' in 3rd gear. Soon, he's going to come up with custom bracket to hold the engine in place.
I had a conversation with Dr. Evil and going to drop the car sometime next week to run tests and monitor what ECU is doing and response from transmission. BTW, Redline oil looks fine to me both level and color.
Also my installer said due to engine movements on hard start could also cause the tranny issues since I never experienced any slippage from the highway 'rolls' in 3rd gear. Soon, he's going to come up with custom bracket to hold the engine in place.
#302
563hp daily
Thread Starter
And yes, tall gearing on AV6 and trap speed should be over 105 but less than 109mph
I've scheduled dyno on 21st on different Dynojet, by that time I hope to resolve tranny issues and get that custom bracket to hold the engine in place. I'll report the results.
The amount of exhaust is crazy by the red line on that 321 run (see video)
I've scheduled dyno on 21st on different Dynojet, by that time I hope to resolve tranny issues and get that custom bracket to hold the engine in place. I'll report the results.
The amount of exhaust is crazy by the red line on that 321 run (see video)
#303
563hp daily
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by mrsteve
With that lower compression you really could run alot more boost. Start searching for an MP90
or better yet get that allmotor's turbo and sell the current kit.
#305
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I had a conversation with Dr. Evil and going to drop the car sometime next week to run tests and monitor what ECU is doing and response from transmission. BTW, Redline oil looks fine to me both level and color.
might think that there is no traction or something... I dunno.
#306
563hp daily
Thread Starter
Ok, back again with better results .
In short transmission works fine
Last week I went directly to Dr. Evil (nice to have it local here) and Billy the owner took it for a spin. He said the tranny works as expected and it's specifically the rev limiter issues with ECU being confused due to any wrong data received. He said lots of guys who's got the upgrade with other makes/models call him almost daily and are usually confuse the slipping issue vs. hitting the rev limiter.
On the way back we've got a CEL and found to be a EGR valve issue. In addition, I had those AC Autotechnic reverse indiglo gauges installed which I removed later on since tach/speed arrows got stuck once in a while and he said it might cause the issue as well.
Bottom line, with reverse indiglo gauges removed (last weekend) and EGR replaced this Monday I decided to to test the car on Tuesday when I learned track stayed open untill 11pm. And to my surprise I never hit the rev limiter again (not even once) running on 225/45/17 street shoes.
BTW, right after the last run I had a CEL flashed like 3 times and went steady. So, last night went to Autozone to scan (need to get reader/eraser) and it came up with P1399 which reads as "Manufacturer Control Ignition System or Misfire". They erase it and so far it didn't came back up. Will find out soon WTF is going on.
Now, the track results . Hit a new record on street tires 13.3@106.4mph
Here it is:
Next DR and custom axles. But most important I'm thinking about more displacement
In short transmission works fine
Last week I went directly to Dr. Evil (nice to have it local here) and Billy the owner took it for a spin. He said the tranny works as expected and it's specifically the rev limiter issues with ECU being confused due to any wrong data received. He said lots of guys who's got the upgrade with other makes/models call him almost daily and are usually confuse the slipping issue vs. hitting the rev limiter.
On the way back we've got a CEL and found to be a EGR valve issue. In addition, I had those AC Autotechnic reverse indiglo gauges installed which I removed later on since tach/speed arrows got stuck once in a while and he said it might cause the issue as well.
Bottom line, with reverse indiglo gauges removed (last weekend) and EGR replaced this Monday I decided to to test the car on Tuesday when I learned track stayed open untill 11pm. And to my surprise I never hit the rev limiter again (not even once) running on 225/45/17 street shoes.
BTW, right after the last run I had a CEL flashed like 3 times and went steady. So, last night went to Autozone to scan (need to get reader/eraser) and it came up with P1399 which reads as "Manufacturer Control Ignition System or Misfire". They erase it and so far it didn't came back up. Will find out soon WTF is going on.
Now, the track results . Hit a new record on street tires 13.3@106.4mph
Here it is:
Next DR and custom axles. But most important I'm thinking about more displacement
#307
Senior Moderator
right on bro, great time.
almost as quick as my best time on street tires.
almost as quick as my best time on street tires.
#309
Senior Moderator
instead you have like the fastest auto accord on the planet
#310
563hp daily
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by mattg
instead you have like the fastest auto accord on the planet
And I thought I'm done, yeah right. Bunch of guys really want to purchase my block for theirs turbo project and now thinking about MDX block
#311
THE J35A2...
Originally Posted by 02AV6
Hey all,
I always post on , however considering that nobody ever done this, yet parts were used from CLS along with Scalbert's IC + e-Manage kits, I thought you guys would like to hear about it.
Keep in mind this is not my daily driver.
Last Saturday my blown 02 AV6 was towed for major installation.
Here is the list of what's going in
1. J32A2 cyl. heads from 02 CLS with NEW cams and valves
2. J32A2 injector base (lower manifold)
3. J32A2 NEW throttle body bored to 71mm (King Motorsports)
4. J32A2 NEW fuel injectors
5. Mugen t-stat/switch/cap
6. Denso Iridium IK22 plugs
7. 3.3"SC pulley (for now) and existing 3.275"ALT (HBP)
8. Scalbert's Intercooler and e-Manage kits
9. Dr. Evil performance 4AT
10. Custom JE 87mm pistons (9.0:1 CR) + ring set
11. Custom Crower forged rods (86mm stock stroke)
12. J30A1 NEW crankshaft with bearings
13. J30A1 block with extra displacement - custom 87mm cast iron sleeves (stock 86mm)
14. AW headers
13. ground kit
15. Optima battery.
I expect this project to be done by Christmas then street testing (weather permitting) with laptop and probably Zeitronix wideband. After 1000mi break-in I'll be getting a DYNO then custom front driveshaft to hit the track next season (April).
In addition, BFG g-Force T/A DR 225/45/17 fronts (track only) and Rotora BBK coming in March next year.
As far as suspension and rims I'm happy, thus I'll keep 'em:
H&R sport springs
Koni Yellows
Eibach sways
Centerline RPM 17x7 (13.5lbs)
225/45/17 Toyo Proxes 4
Low compression internals will make me more boost friendly for future gains and I will definately get more boost within the CT blower efficiency then who knows maybe custom turbo with extra injectors.
Pics come next.
I always post on , however considering that nobody ever done this, yet parts were used from CLS along with Scalbert's IC + e-Manage kits, I thought you guys would like to hear about it.
Keep in mind this is not my daily driver.
Last Saturday my blown 02 AV6 was towed for major installation.
Here is the list of what's going in
1. J32A2 cyl. heads from 02 CLS with NEW cams and valves
2. J32A2 injector base (lower manifold)
3. J32A2 NEW throttle body bored to 71mm (King Motorsports)
4. J32A2 NEW fuel injectors
5. Mugen t-stat/switch/cap
6. Denso Iridium IK22 plugs
7. 3.3"SC pulley (for now) and existing 3.275"ALT (HBP)
8. Scalbert's Intercooler and e-Manage kits
9. Dr. Evil performance 4AT
10. Custom JE 87mm pistons (9.0:1 CR) + ring set
11. Custom Crower forged rods (86mm stock stroke)
12. J30A1 NEW crankshaft with bearings
13. J30A1 block with extra displacement - custom 87mm cast iron sleeves (stock 86mm)
14. AW headers
13. ground kit
15. Optima battery.
I expect this project to be done by Christmas then street testing (weather permitting) with laptop and probably Zeitronix wideband. After 1000mi break-in I'll be getting a DYNO then custom front driveshaft to hit the track next season (April).
In addition, BFG g-Force T/A DR 225/45/17 fronts (track only) and Rotora BBK coming in March next year.
As far as suspension and rims I'm happy, thus I'll keep 'em:
H&R sport springs
Koni Yellows
Eibach sways
Centerline RPM 17x7 (13.5lbs)
225/45/17 Toyo Proxes 4
Low compression internals will make me more boost friendly for future gains and I will definately get more boost within the CT blower efficiency then who knows maybe custom turbo with extra injectors.
Pics come next.
***BRINGING FROM THE DEAD****
Finally, Serge did it! on what we thought before was impossible. from Custom JE 87mm pistons to J35 frankenstein motor to CL-S motor AND ETC... Congrats Serge on hitting 12's
#316
563hp daily
Thread Starter
To make a long story short, 3.5 block is gone to others for NA project and after numerous inquiries along with the money offered it was hard to say no. Then I decided on brand NEW J32A2 block and keep it untouched. Yet, due to higher CR RL pistons I opted for lower 7.5psi boost with safe tuning and something about it was not too exciting except decent torque. Still, I prefer the current setup with factory J32A2 block with 9-9.5psi which matched 3.5 torque. RL cams are next and it would be it for this car
#319
13.68 @ 102.56
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Originally Posted by 02AV6
Modded new auto Mustang GT similar to the above first pic.
The good news is the GTO is running strong my new best time: 11.99 @ 117.44
I my self would like to run against that modded Mustang GT.....