Why I absolutely love Microsoft
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
My thoughts..
Microsoft must attempt to make OS idiot proof but also attempt to make it for the techy people.
Apple can gear towards crazy tech people but has always geared towards ease of use.
And now with the dual boot or whatever you guys argued about last week can now leave the idiots on the Microsoft OS and make everyone happy..
And the world will be a better place..
Microsoft must attempt to make OS idiot proof but also attempt to make it for the techy people.
Apple can gear towards crazy tech people but has always geared towards ease of use.
And now with the dual boot or whatever you guys argued about last week can now leave the idiots on the Microsoft OS and make everyone happy..
And the world will be a better place..
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The Creator
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From: Albany, NY
Originally Posted by Billiam
If you consider the respective applications out there for the two platforms, I've always been under the impression that Apple's base of installed apps was mostly comprised of boxed software whereas Microsoft's was mostly comprised of home grown code from its customers. This is what enabled Apple to work closely with the key devlopers to pull off things like Rosetta. If Microsoft's installed base of applications was just Office and CAD programs, then yes I think they might have been able to pull off Rosetta. Well... under different management they might have.
That's a huge part of the reason I love OSX, the active 3rd party software community. The only Apple-app I use regularly is iCal. Out of the 20 or so Applications on my dock. Only iCal and iTunes are Apple-made... and I think you'd find the same with alot of Apple users.
Beyond that, pretty much the only big-name-software-house app I use regularly is Adobe CS.
Other than that almost every app I and most apple users I know use are created by small 1-app developers.
The difference is Apple stimulates and encourages their small developers with things such as the Apple Design Awards at the Apple Developer Conference.
90% of the small apps I use were converted to Universal binaries within weeks of Apple's intel announcement.
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From: Albany, NY
Originally Posted by soopa
Huh? No way.
That's a huge part of the reason I love OSX, the active 3rd party software community. The only Apple-app I use regularly is iCal. Out of the 20 or so Applications on my dock. Only iCal and iTunes are Apple-made... and I think you'd find the same with alot of Apple users.
Beyond that, pretty much the only big-name-software-house app I use regularly is Adobe CS.
Other than that almost every app I and most apple users I know use are created by small 1-app developers.
The difference is Apple stimulates and encourages their small developers with things such as the Apple Design Awards at the Apple Developer Conference.
90% of the small apps I use were converted to Universal binaries within weeks of Apple's intel announcement.
That's a huge part of the reason I love OSX, the active 3rd party software community. The only Apple-app I use regularly is iCal. Out of the 20 or so Applications on my dock. Only iCal and iTunes are Apple-made... and I think you'd find the same with alot of Apple users.
Beyond that, pretty much the only big-name-software-house app I use regularly is Adobe CS.
Other than that almost every app I and most apple users I know use are created by small 1-app developers.
The difference is Apple stimulates and encourages their small developers with things such as the Apple Design Awards at the Apple Developer Conference.
90% of the small apps I use were converted to Universal binaries within weeks of Apple's intel announcement.
Acquisition X - Small Independent Developer
Adium - Small Independent Developer
Camino - Open Source
Firefox - Open Source
NewsFire - Small Independent Developer
TextMate - Small Independent Developer
CocoaMySQL - Open Source
Photoshop - Big Sofware Developer
OmniGraffle Pro - Big Software Developer
Transmit - Small Independent Developer
iTunes - Apple
iCal - Apple
Flickr Uploadr - Small Independent Developer
Colloquy - Small Independent Developer
Apple: 2
Big Software: 2
Open Source: 3
Small Software: 7
Total: 14
OSX = Small, Agile, Independent software "companies".
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Originally Posted by soopa
yeah, Google has pretty much trademarked "BETA".
point?
point?
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Those are Beta versions of IE7 and Vista. The final versions will be ALL fixed and 100% problem-free. 
damn the end must be near, I'm sticking up for Windows...
serious though, tell me about Vista, I hope they have made a change to the GUI I have been waiting for since, well, PC Tools days? When you drag-drop to copy/move a group of files files between drives, does it give you a running tally of number of files to show the progress? i.e. "File xx/xx". I could never understand why current Windows still only shows you that stupid progress bar. I want NUMBERS.
damn the end must be near, I'm sticking up for Windows...
serious though, tell me about Vista, I hope they have made a change to the GUI I have been waiting for since, well, PC Tools days? When you drag-drop to copy/move a group of files files between drives, does it give you a running tally of number of files to show the progress? i.e. "File xx/xx". I could never understand why current Windows still only shows you that stupid progress bar. I want NUMBERS.
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Originally Posted by Whiskers
My point is that Microsoft can easily release software on time with the permininant "beta" tag (like Google). But they decide not to (yes, I understand one is free and the other is not)..
One, there's a huge difference between an Operating System and a Web Application.
An Operating System goes bad, your life goes bad. Google has a hiccup, so what?
Example, Google's "beta" means, "a page might take a second to load sometime". Microsoft's beta means "it might crash and take all your data with it".
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The Creator
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From: Albany, NY
Originally Posted by srika
Those are Beta versions of IE7 and Vista. The final versions will be ALL fixed and 100% problem-free.
Originally Posted by srika
serious though, tell me about Vista, I hope they have made a change to the GUI I have been waiting for since, well, PC Tools days? When you drag-drop to copy/move a group of files files between drives, does it give you a running tally of number of files to show the progress? i.e. "File xx/xx". I could never understand why current Windows still only shows you that stupid progress bar. I want NUMBERS.
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From: PA
Originally Posted by soopa
I don't think there's any relation.
One, there's a huge difference between an Operating System and a Web Application.
An Operating System goes bad, your life goes bad. Google has a hiccup, so what?
Example, Google's "beta" means, "a page might take a second to load sometime". Microsoft's beta means "it might crash and take all your data with it".
One, there's a huge difference between an Operating System and a Web Application.
An Operating System goes bad, your life goes bad. Google has a hiccup, so what?
Example, Google's "beta" means, "a page might take a second to load sometime". Microsoft's beta means "it might crash and take all your data with it".
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The Creator
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From: Albany, NY
Originally Posted by Whiskers
Congrats, you just figured out why Microsoft pushes back it's release dates so often....
OF COURSE I KNOW WHY MICROSOFT DELAYS!
THEY CANT GET THEIR SHIT TOGETHER ON TIME!
Now, back to a real comparison... Apple & Microsoft...
Since Microsoft's initial delay of Vista, Apple has released 3 stable major revisions of OSX. All of which have included features that Microsoft is trying desperately to incorporate into Vista.
Expose, Quartz, Spotlight... Microsoft is trying to copy ALL of them and more.
They're delaying not only because they can't get their shit together, but because they have a complete lack of innovation. They're not coming up with their own ideas, they're copying others and trying to execute them better... which they can't.
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From: Chicago Burbs
Originally Posted by soopa
That's a huge part of the reason I love OSX, the active 3rd party software community. The only Apple-app I use regularly is iCal. Out of the 20 or so Applications on my dock. Only iCal and iTunes are Apple-made... and I think you'd find the same with alot of Apple users.
The difference is Apple stimulates and encourages their small developers with things such as the Apple Design Awards at the Apple Developer Conference.
The difference is Apple stimulates and encourages their small developers with things such as the Apple Design Awards at the Apple Developer Conference.
Regardless of how pervasive the software base is for either platform, Apple obviously works infinitely better with its developers than M$ does. And when it comes to forethought for the development community they're barely in the same sport, let alone the same ballpark.
Minor
Are there any tech resources out there that are useful for learning about Macs living in M$ networking environment? I have a gory wireless authentication question that I've never been able to find the answer to.
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Originally Posted by soopa
They're not coming up with their own ideas, they're copying others and trying to execute them better... which they can't.
Personally I think it's good that they aren't releasing until they get it right. Since the majority of the free world uses windows, the potential for security problems in this new OS is a really scary thing (talking about home users since corporate america will wait a year or so to use it). I'd rather have them put it off until they have more confidence in it. Their biggest problem here was overpromising and under delivering on a release date.
Big Block go VROOOM!
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From: Chicago Burbs
Originally Posted by soopa
OF COURSE I KNOW WHY MICROSOFT DELAYS!
THEY CANT GET THEIR SHIT TOGETHER ON TIME!
THEY CANT GET THEIR SHIT TOGETHER ON TIME!
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From: PA
Originally Posted by zeroday
Do you have any proof of this? I mean proof that the delays are due to them trying to copy apple...
Personally I think it's good that they aren't releasing until they get it right. Since the majority of the free world uses windows, the potential for security problems in this new OS is a really scary thing (talking about home users since corporate america will wait a year or so to use it). I'd rather have them put it off until they have more confidence in it. Their biggest problem here was overpromising and under delivering on a release date.
Personally I think it's good that they aren't releasing until they get it right. Since the majority of the free world uses windows, the potential for security problems in this new OS is a really scary thing (talking about home users since corporate america will wait a year or so to use it). I'd rather have them put it off until they have more confidence in it. Their biggest problem here was overpromising and under delivering on a release date.
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The Creator
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Originally Posted by Billiam
Point half-taken on the 3rd party dev popularity. If you set aside Adobe, Macromedia, and Digidesign, how many of those 3rd party developers are making applications that would be considered mission-critical to a typical Mac user in a business? FWIW that's the type of deployed application base that I was thinking of in my initial comparison.
Regardless of how pervasive the software base is for either platform, Apple obviously works infinitely better with its developers than M$ does. And when it comes to forethought for the development community they're barely in the same sport, let alone the same ballpark.
Minor
Are there any tech resources out there that are useful for learning about Macs living in M$ networking environment? I have a gory wireless authentication question that I've never been able to find the answer to.
Regardless of how pervasive the software base is for either platform, Apple obviously works infinitely better with its developers than M$ does. And when it comes to forethought for the development community they're barely in the same sport, let alone the same ballpark.
Minor
Are there any tech resources out there that are useful for learning about Macs living in M$ networking environment? I have a gory wireless authentication question that I've never been able to find the answer to.
Of the apps I mentioned, Photoshop is indeed one I couldn't live without.
However, without Transmit & Textmate especially I'd be equally cripled. Nearly every HTML/Ruby/PHP developer on OSX uses Textmate.
In other niche's there's even more essential 3rd party apps.
Nevertheless, for all of the above, there are lesser alternatives. Gimp for Photoshop, bbEdit or some crap for Textmate.
You mention Digidesign, but in the Audio field there are many incredibly popular small apps. I'm not involved, so I can't name them off my head.
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Originally Posted by soopa
SX gives you numbers
btw... OSX's built-in on-screen coercive subliminal flash message system (OSCSFMS) seems to be doing wonders on you, you've been steadily turning into quite the Mac soldier.
Your conviction grows stronger by night and steadier by day. You heard about those subliminal messages, right? 
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From: Albany, NY
Originally Posted by Whiskers
Believe me, if Apple has the same type of pressure on them, there would be delays on their end as well...
Microsoft is and will always be dominant. They're flooded with surplus reserves. They could rename Vista "Microsoft FuckingHatesYou1.0" and they'd still be ahead of the game... there would still be people buying Windows computers.
If Apple released a series of OS's with problem after problem you'd see their popularity dwindle fast and sure. Just like we saw in the past. That's pressure.
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From: Albany, NY
Originally Posted by srika
FAWK. damn osx....
btw... OSX's built-in on-screen coercive subliminal flash message system (OSCSFMS) seems to be doing wonders on you, you've been steadily turning into quite the Mac soldier. Your conviction grows stronger by night and steadier by day. You heard about those subliminal messages, right?
btw... OSX's built-in on-screen coercive subliminal flash message system (OSCSFMS) seems to be doing wonders on you, you've been steadily turning into quite the Mac soldier.
Your conviction grows stronger by night and steadier by day. You heard about those subliminal messages, right? 
Thread Starter
The Creator
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From: Albany, NY
If you want to know why Microsoft just can't get it right then read the blogs of the IE7 developers and compare to the actual development cycle of IE7.
Smart people, great intentions, piss poor corporate culture. It's said the Windows team is even worse... which is why Microsoft had the "great management shake-up of 2006" a few months ago... which has yet to yield results.
Smart people, great intentions, piss poor corporate culture. It's said the Windows team is even worse... which is why Microsoft had the "great management shake-up of 2006" a few months ago... which has yet to yield results.
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From: PA
Originally Posted by soopa
Apple has greater pressure - their relevance and livlihood.
Microsoft is and will always be dominant. They're flooded with surplus reserves. They could rename Vista "Microsoft FuckingHatesYou1.0" and they'd still be ahead of the game... there would still be people buying Windows computers.
If Apple released a series of OS's with problem after problem you'd see their popularity dwindle fast and sure. Just like we saw in the past. That's pressure.
Microsoft is and will always be dominant. They're flooded with surplus reserves. They could rename Vista "Microsoft FuckingHatesYou1.0" and they'd still be ahead of the game... there would still be people buying Windows computers.
If Apple released a series of OS's with problem after problem you'd see their popularity dwindle fast and sure. Just like we saw in the past. That's pressure.
Microsoft has 1000's upon 1000's of idiot CIO's asking them stupid questions like Can Outlook do this or can Windows do that.... This is why Microsoft has to improve. They need to put the pacifiers on the babies.
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The Creator
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From: Albany, NY
Originally Posted by Whiskers
True, but Mac users are basically hippies that love the OS and don't really pressure Apple to change and improve (Im sure they do, just on a smaller scale).
Microsoft has 1000's upon 1000's of idiot CIO's asking them stupid questions like Can Outlook do this or can Windows do that.... This is why Microsoft has to improve. They need to put the pacifiers on the babies.
Microsoft has 1000's upon 1000's of idiot CIO's asking them stupid questions like Can Outlook do this or can Windows do that.... This is why Microsoft has to improve. They need to put the pacifiers on the babies.
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From: Albany, NY
Originally Posted by doopstr
@ this thread.Shit, if you put together every Apple user on AZ and gave them a postwhore pass it'd still take 3 days to break the 5 page mark
I'm not sure really what differentiates the scale of fanboyism by someone who is for Apple from someone who is for Microsoft. To me, I think my one-sidedness is easily equalled if not overcome
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Originally Posted by soopa
The funny part is how Windows fans continually bash "Apple fanboys" or anyone who is "anti-Windows" yet it's their sheer numbers that allow a thread to reach 5+ pages.
Shit, if you put together every Apple user on AZ and gave them a postwhore pass it'd still take 3 days to break the 5 page mark
I'm not sure really what differentiates the scale of fanboyism by someone who is for Apple from someone who is for Microsoft. To me, I think my one-sidedness is easily equalled if not overcome
Shit, if you put together every Apple user on AZ and gave them a postwhore pass it'd still take 3 days to break the 5 page mark
I'm not sure really what differentiates the scale of fanboyism by someone who is for Apple from someone who is for Microsoft. To me, I think my one-sidedness is easily equalled if not overcome
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The Creator
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From: Albany, NY
Originally Posted by Whiskers
Microsoft fans are always the ones defending themselves. Nobody really starts "I hate Macs" threads.
But it is funny that Windows fans are the ones calling Apple users "fanboys", "hippies", etc... and I don't think our side has stooped to calling the users names - yet.
I keep my distaste directed at Microsoft, where it belongs.
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btw I am IN for the geek forum petition... it could be a subforum of R&P - that way, we can casually intertwine our arguments with theology, religion, and politics etc. on an as-required basis and not have to worry about any repercussions thereof.
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The Creator
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From: Albany, NY
Originally Posted by srika
btw I am IN for the geek forum petition... it could be a subforum of R&P - that way, we can casually intertwine our arguments with theology, religion, and politics etc. on an as-required basis and not have to worry about any repercussions thereof.
we could rename R&P "Religion & Arguments"