Pull_T

I realize they play each other. Every conference plays each other.

The pollsters seem to agree with you however since every SEC team is always voted as high as humanly possible...especially toward the bottom where they throw in every single team they can.

It's a chicken and the egg situation. Are all those three loss teams voted in the tp 25 because they are good or are they good because they are in the top 25?


Hell, if every SEC team was 4-4 in conference, you;d still have people saying the champ deserves to be national champion.

6MTUA5

iTrader: (2)

They're voted in the top 25 b/c they are good. SEC dominates every other conference out there. Period.

hornyleprechaun

Lsu has 2 wins over BCS top 15 teams, and 5 wins against BCS top 25 teams.. Oklahoma still only has those 2.. weak schedule.


The reason there are so many 3 loss SEC teams is because they actually play GREAT teams, each other. This is why when a SEC team goes undefeated or only has 1 loss it is a huge deal.

OU hasn't played anyone except Missouri, who even with their 1 loss has not played anyone (I have already said this and you ignored it).

Let us take a look at the powerhouse teams that Kansas has beat..

Central Michigan
Southeastern Louisiana
Toledo
Florida International
Kansas State (Lost to Auburn 23-13)
Baylor
Colorado
Texas A&M
Nebraska

You cannot honestly think that one team on that list is good.

Texas' Opponents

Arkansas State
TCU (Best win)
UCF (Almost lost this game to the "Big Least" you always talk shit about.
Rice
Kansas State (Lost to Auburn 23-13)
Oklahoma
Iowa State
Baylor
Nebraska
Oklahoma State (Lost to UGA 35-14)

Again, the only good teams they have played are TCU (which they won) and Oklahoma, which I have already said is the only good team in the Big 12.

I'll throw in Missouri's schedule too since it is so tough.

Illinois
Ole Miss (Yes an SEC team, but they are the worst in the league by far)
Western Michigan
Illinois State
Nebraska
Oklahoma
Texas Tech
Iowa State
Colorado

I hope you are starting to see the trend here. The Big 12 teams that are ranked have not played any tough teams.

Pull_T

But where are all the big nonconference wins that show their dominance? Cal over Tennessee? SoFla over Auburn? FSU over Georgia?

Sorry, but there are more "quality losses" than "quality wins" when I look at the conference.

If I look at the top half of the Big XII, the only nonconference losses are Auburn over KSU and Georgia over OSU.

Hardly shows me a "best conference" "period."

hornyleprechaun

There is a difference between playing Iowa State, Nebraska, Colorado, Kansas State, Missouri if you are Kansas compared to playing Tennessee, Ole Miss, Auburn, LSU, Kentucky, UGA, Vanderbilt, USC if you are Florida. Not to mention that Florida played those teams in a row..

hornyleprechaun

* FSU over Bama

Do you see any quality non-conference games scheduled for those Big 12 teams that I listed? We'll see how the Big 12 does in their bowl games this year because they have to make up for bad games last year.

Pull_T

I'm not saying I see a ton of quality nonconference wins for the BigXII...I don;t see tons of them for any conference. I especially don't see them for the SEC which I think I would since they are apparently so far and away the dominant league. I actually think they are pretty even...I;m not saying the Big XII is superior...just that the Big XII isn't so drastically less quality like the polls would indicate.

The SEC teams are all ranked as high as they possibly can and still be within the realm of believability...while the Big XII teams are all ranked as LOW as possible while still being believable.

Sorry, I don't see the vastly superior schedule. Especially when I see that 3 of the wins in that group CAME FROM FLORIDA. I guess Kansas's schedule would look tougher if they lost three...lol Not to mention you left off two of the decent teams in Kansa's conference schedule off your list...TAMU and KSU

Is it tougher? A bit...not dramatically so. Again, when Kansas's list suffers from a 3 loss disadvantage due to not winning 3.

Pull_T

Yes...wins against a crop of 3-loss lower 25 opponents

The only trend I see is the following:

SEC Team A beats SEC Team B
SEC Team B beats SEC Team C
SEC Team C beats SEC Team A

So they are all 1-1, but they are only 1-1 cause "the SEC is so dominant...I mean, look at A...they are awesome and beat B...a huge win...C is legendary cause they beat A...And you can't forget about that Win B had over C."

Then if the same thing happens to BigXII teams, it's more like "Wow, B really sucks, A beat them....and is a real bad loss for A to lose to C. C is pretty good, but not that great since B beat them"

Like I said, it's a self-fulfilling chicken vs egg situation. The SEC teams are all so awesome because the opponents are awesome. And how do we know the opponents are awesome, because *their* opponents were awesome...

SEC teams are voted as high as humanly possble, Big XII teams are ranked as low as humanly possible.

PS - don't bother listing BigXII teams "powerhouse" nonconference games...the SEC's nonconference games suck too.

o1s

i've lived here all of my life. it only gets worse every year. also the only time of the year that i'm thankful that tpd has way too many officers on their payroll.

6MTUA5

iTrader: (2)

Me too, and it has been getting worse. Crime is getting real bad as of lately too. There have been a bunch of robberies nearby, so I got my Remington 12ga from my mom's in case someone tries something stupid.

6MTUA5

iTrader: (2)

All I'm saying is have the best SEC teams play against the best teams from the Big XII (or any other conference for that matter) once each and the SEC will come out with more wins every time.

Pull_T

Sounds good, I'll just have to disagree. I'll take OU/Kansas/Mizzou/Texas over anyone's top 4.

salvo24

Yea, I hear ya, I had to drive down Tennessee to get home after the game lol...anyway, I'll put this back on topic a bit....GO FSU! haha...still not even ranked tho...#26

chinoz

if KU wins out.. they're in the national championship

hornyleprechaun

I left off TAMU (but who have they played?) and KSU to show "how tough" the teams were on Kansas' schedule. Four of those teams are in the bottom of the Big 12 North with a record of 16-23 (8-16) in conference play. Only 1 team has a winning overall record, 3 of Florida's bottom 4 teams have winning records (Ole Miss doesn't, but Kentucky, USC, & Vanderbilt.)

Kansas won't suffer 3 losses because they don't play the caliber of teams that a SEC team faces. This is why the voters put a 1 loss UF last year against an undefeated Ohio State. The same shit is happening this year. Ohio State went to Penn State (who is overrated) and beat them there to "justify" they were the legitimate #1 team. This is what happened last year, and Florida beat the shit out of Ohio State.

LSU is in the same position, and if they do go undefeated they deserve a chance. I'm not saying they NEED to be in the national championship game, but they definitely deserve it over Kansas or Missouri right now. If Kansas or Missouri wins out and beats Oklahoma in the Big 12 title game then I will give them the respect. I just don't see that happening.

hornyleprechaun

Because last year Florida had 1 loss and won the national championship. There definitely wasn't a drastic drop in talent from 06' to 07'. IMO the talent this year is at its best. Auburn is starting 16/17 true freshman, UF's team is 70% freshman/sophomores. There is a legitimate heisman candidate on 4 SEC teams, Tebow, McFadden, Woodson & Dorsey.

Not in 2004.. and Oklahoma got abused and embarrassed by USC in the title game.

The problem is there are no non-conference games for the Big 12. The only thing that was going for the Big 12 was when Texas had the 2 year match up with Ohio State. I guess it isn't Oklahoma's fault that Miami lost it's powerhouse talent and sucks this year.

Auburn > KState
UGA > Oklahoma State

hornyleprechaun

That's your opinion.. I'll take the SEC's 6-3 record vs. the Big 12's 3-5 record from bowl games last year. 2 of those SEC wins were BCS bowl games, 1 National Championship. Oklahoma lost it's BCS game.


I'd still take the SEC's bowl game record this year against the Big 12's. There will be two head to head bowl games b/w the SEC & Big 12, so we'll see what happens. The "experts" are projecting Kansas vs. Bama or Texas Tech vs. Auburn at the cotton bowl.

furious1smitul

Big Ten owns joo all

It's a tough year, because I want to see OSU win the NC and then have UMich win the Rose Bowl. However, I want UM to crush the living daylights out of the Buckeyes.

hornyleprechaun

I think Michigan needs to win a bowl game this year.. they haven't faired well the past 4 years. Or it might be to Lloyd Carr & hi to Les Miles.

Professor

At least basketball season will start soon and have a tournament in March to avoid this who's best "madness."

hornyleprechaun

This season shows how needed a 4 team playoff is.

Caddyİ

Amen to that...

hornyleprechaun

A Bama win this weekend locks up the bet for you..

furious1smitul

I just want an OSU and Bowl Win.




Although I think you take the top 6. #1 and #2 get a bye week 1.

Caddyİ

Boy, they played their BUTTS off against LSU didn't they? How about that Caudell Catch for 41 yards that was called back? I think they were right on ALL the reversed calls save that one. He clearly caught the ball, had his hands underneath it. That definately changed the outcome. Another questionable one was where Castille caused a fumble from a caught ball. It was ruled not a catch. That one was questionable as well, but definately the Caudell catch I thought was a catch!

hornyleprechaun

It's all about money, so whenever the schools agree to it then it will happen. I think there will eventually be something in a couple years.

furious1smitul

^ As we keep getting more and more of these types of seasons, there will be a change in revenue opportunities toward having a playoff.

Would love for it to happen in a few years, more like 5-7.

hornyleprechaun

PM sent with an e-mail I got about Alabama

gatrhumpy

iTrader: (1)

I hope Auburn friggin' rapes UGA this weekend. If they do that, and UF wins, and UT loses to ARK, then UF goes to Atlanta.

Pull_T

Wow...huge wins. Great evidence for the SEC to get every single benefit of the doubt in ranking 7 teams in the top 25...


There's just no arguing with you...SEC teams are great because they play great SEC teams who are great because they play great SEC teams who are great because they play SEC teams.....

Caddyİ

Ok, I'm making the call: GA beats Auburn this weekend. UT does loose to ARK. It's ONLY Half a Pie for you GATrhumpy !

hornyleprechaun

You got mad earlier because I left KState off of Kansas' schedule, so I figured posting the head to head games b/w the SEC & Big 12 would be a legitimate factor.

You are right there is no arguing because you can't show me proof that the Big 12 plays tougher opponents, and I can't show you proof that the SEC plays tougher opponents.

The only way we will tell who is best is head to head matchups in the bowl games (there will be 2), and overall record in bowl games. Clearly if a conference goes sub .500 then it shows that the conference really isn't/wasn't that strong. Even then it only shows that the winning teams played well enough during their last game of the season to win.

hornyleprechaun

gatrhumpy

iTrader: (1)

If UT does lose to ARK, and UGA wins, they still have to beat UK to win the East. I don't see them winning against BOTH UK and UT.

Pull_T

I'm not saying the BigXII has tougher schedule. I'm not even claiming the BigXII is better. I actually think the SEC is a slight bit better.

All I am saying is that I don't see any good reasoning for the SEC to be considered SO far-and-away the best conference that they have the highest ranked 1 loss team, highest ranked 2 loss team, highest ranked 3 loss team and the last part of the top 25 filled with 4 other 3 loss teams. Hell, 3 weeks ago everyone int he media was trying to come up with reasons for 2 loss UF t be in the title game. give it another week or two and they'll be concocting scenarios for the 3 loss gators to be in it.

hell, Kansas can run the table and beat Mizzou and Oklahoma in their last 2 games and still not be in the BCS games because by then, the polls will start to pack in 4 loss SEC teams like SC to the bottom of the rankings.

hornyleprechaun

Ok, but you are saying the SEC is getting too much backing for having too many ranked teams. If you think they are better then why care if they have teams ranked 20-25. That has no effect on Kansas, Missouri, or Oklahoma if they win out. Obviously they all 3 can't win out though.

^What I said above. I agree on that UF part, and that is what the media does though to get "stories." (See Ohio State/Michigan rematch talk last year) Look at the rankings now, Auburn beat Florida, yet Florida is ranked higher than Auburn. It shouldn't be like that, but that is what happens with the current system.

However, just because a team is undefeated they shouldn't be automatically ranked above a 1 loss team. Hawaii doesn't deserve to be ranked Top 5 because they haven't played anyone worth mentioning. Like I've shown you Kansas hasn't beaten 1 team in the top 15, or even top 25. LSU has beaten 2 in the top 15, and so has Oklahoma.

Not correct. Big 12 winner gets an automatic bid to a BCS game. They may not go to the NC game, but they will definitely go to a BCS game if they win out.

The way it is setup now teams are going to get screwed. Auburn/Utah were undefeated in 04. but didn't get a chance for the NC game. Oklahoma was selected that year by the computers and pollsters, but got destroyed by USC.

Last year there was talk of Ohio State/Michigan rematch since the last game of the season was so close. Luckily the right team, Florida, was put in the game and embarrassed Ohio State.

Kansas may be a great football team and if they do go undefeated deserve a shot at the NC game, but if may just turn out to be another 2004 whooping on another potentially overrated Big 12 team.

IlliNorge

If Hawaii goes undefeated so they deserve a spot in the NC game?

hornyleprechaun

If you are talking to me I already answered this.

Pull_T

It does have an effect on other teams...the higher ranked the opponents are, the more credit they get.

Kansas will have to beat two top 6 (or higher) teams to go undefeated. That still not good enough?


No shit sherlock. The BigXII champ goes to a BCS game? I obviously was referring to the BCS title game.

Wow...bringing up games from 3 years ago? I realize you feel butthurt over Auburn getting denied the title game appearance, but the Big XII has more national titles this decade than the SEC 2 vs 1.5 and they both have one the last two years. And the Big XII has 5 of the last 12 National Champions. And the BigXII was 5-2 in the "title games" in that span. Not sure how one game (a game that may get forfeited anyway due to USC cheating) means every BigXII Champ is "overrated"

Caddyİ

no