dallison

I ran a 3:42 something and my ass dragged after mile 20. I'll report back later.

Trigirl, how did you do this weekend?

dallison

The past few days i have been eating pretty well, so at least i had that part right. I woke up this morning and ate my bowl of cereal and banana, raisins and some gatorade. Before i left i made a peice of multigrain toast with pb and grabbed a water. I made sure i was well hydrated and fed before the race ass we are supposed to.

I ran in shorts, t-shirt and gloves. Oh yeah, shoes too. It was a warm 40 degrees but wearing anything heavier would come back and haunt me, so lighter was better.

The race started at 8:30 and i started slow like i wanted. I was running around 8 min miles through the first i would guess 17 miles.
I felt really strong and was really taking it easy. I would stop at a good amount of water stations and walk with the drink so i could down it.
I don't have the skill to drink and run from cups without choking. At mile 7 and i think 18 i ate some sports beans. I think i'm going to ditch these for longer runs b/c of how long it takes to eat them compared to gels.
I never trained with gels and i wasn't trying anything new today, i was going to finish.

My left hamstring, the one that hurt me last year started to ache a bit but didn't totally slow me down, but i will have to work on that this winter. My lower back hurt a tad too just like in the half on the same course. I never get this in training.

I was pretty good until the park with hills. I started to slow down and that was around 17-19 miles when i slowed. I slowed down and took my time. I did walk up the last hill in the park, but it was about 200 feet long and i knew conserving energy at this point was useful.



The wall;

My training never took me past 17 miles and this bit me in the butt, but i knew it would happen somewhere.
Up to now, most everything was sore but nothing really hurt. My legs were getting very tired and were yelling at me wondering why i was abusing them.
At mile 20 i was really going pretty slow, but didn't stop yet. I begged for each mile marker and prayed it was just ahead. Each mile got harder. By this point, my feet were getting pretty sore in a pair of shoes that have about 150 miles on them but never experienced the beating they were receiving.
At mile 23 -25.2 i was employing the walk/run method. I walked when my legs said no and i ran slowly when my brain said go.
This is the point where the experienced runners were going strong and passing my sorry butt. I never stopped and kept walking and mixing more running in and i was going to make it to the finish.

Once we hit the last mile or somewhere around there, it went a little downhill so i ran down and walked at the bottom. I did this less on the last mile as i was picking up the pace as little as it was. I got to the last half mile and a woman runner was down. I stopped to see what was going on. She kept on saying that she needs to finish. Three women were trying to help and i started to help but knew she wasn't going anywhere.

They were telling me to finish but at the same time wanted to get her water. I started to run back towards the oncoming runners trying to find anyone with water but no one had it. This one woman probably thougght i was nuts since i asked her since she was holding a water bottle. As i was running in the right direction, i saw some kids running back with some water. there was an emt that was about 100 yards down the way so i let him know there's a runner down.

Mrs. Dallison was at the top of the hill that led to the bridge that led to the finish line.

I stopped to kiss her and took off. I passed one person on the bridge and i was satisfied with that.

The clock said something like 3:42, i don't know what my chip time is yet, but i'll find out in the next couple of days.

I was elated to finish and the emt people kept asking people if they were feeling ok or if they needed help. Young girls were giving out the medals and foil blankets.

My voice was hoarse, my upper back or shoulders were very sore from the arm movement or possibly bad form after i slowed down, and my legs were shot.

It took a while to start feeling better after walking around. I grabbed some fruit, a slice of hoagie, and chips and proceeded to eat. It took a while for my voice to sound better.

My wife and i went to five guys for well, you know. i sttarted to feel a little better, but sisn't feel better until i got home.

I have a blister on my left foot near my big toe and one of the boys got a little chafed.

I am glad i did this and didn't have to be nervous for weeks but only days. I do wish i had more training but i am happy with the first 2o miles and could improve if needed.

I know i will be rediculously sore tomorrow.

dallison

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

nice job dallison! congrats!!

yeah, your legs won't be too happy with you in the next few days and stair climbing will be REALLY fun. lol. i feel your pain. i've been shuffling around pretty stiff all day.

my legs were pretty upset with me about 16-17 miles in...by 20 or so they were just screaming pissed along with my poor feet. i kept plowing through though (i wouldn't let myself walk, i'll get to the finish faster if i run). my other half and i actually ran the whole thing together (i'm usually much faster than he is, and much faster than he is for tri's). he PR'd and i was a minute off my PR. all things considered especially when we only trained for 6 wks...i'm pretty pleased (i wasn't expecting to get ANYWHERE near my PR). i know there were times when i felt i didn't have an extra gear, somehow i was able to ignore my legs cries to stop and walk to push through it. i think having my other half with me really helped keep me going and mentally focused. there were times he would surge, and i just kept staying on his tail even though he knew i was pretty much at my limit (and experiencing A LOT of discomfort). we agreed if we were still together towards the end, we would finish together (this was a first). makes for a great finisher's photo with both of us crossing the line at the same time.

add insult to injury...the course was LONG by about 3 tenths of a mile according to my watch. this just means i really did PR my marathon time since it should have been about 3 minutes or so faster.

recover from the marathon well, your body will be much happier and healthier for it (not to mention faster!).

dallison

recovering, is that basically not running for 5-7 days and then easing into it? What was your time?
I got passed by several girls after mile 23, i felt no shame.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

3:45. if you take that 3/10's out it would have been 3:41-3:42 (esp if we knew we would have been closer to 3:40).

recovery: no running for a week; can do light activities like bike or swim or cross train in week one. then very light activities (cross training) and SHORT easy runs into week two. even though you may not be sore in a few days...your body will still be VERY tired.

i ran 6 days after my 1st IM (a literal short 5 miler, easy)...OMG. i couldn't believe how tired i felt after about 2 miles. by mile 3 or 4...my legs felt like they were at mile 20 of the marathon and telling me WTF?! go sit your butt on the couch!!

so since then...i listen to my body. i'll go splash at the pool and easy spin on the bike later this week. i have NO desire to run...unless the weather is nice (even then...i have to control the urge). sometimes i'll just go detail the car or rake some leaves on those nice days. lol.

dallison

Awesome time. I can do no running for a week. I think that'll be good enough for my blister to pop or whatever it's going to do.

dallison

As expected from my hips down it's pretty sore and i'm moving slowly. Everything feels good though and there is no injury pain, just soreness.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

i should have asked for ice bags for my hip flexors after the race. i got some for my hamstrings since they were deciding whether to spazz out on me after the race. nice thing is that they saran wrapped the ice bags on me, so i was able to walk around with them. oddly, my calves were twitching while i was laying on the ice bags in the ancillary medical tent. my hammies aren't even sore since the race. my hip flexors on the other hand (this is a normal sore/stiff area, and the only thing that is sore on me right now) are the things making my stair climbing experiences and getting up from sitting a real bear. woo hoo, fun times! i'll be good to go by tomorrow in terms of soreness.

this ice thing...i may have to have ice baths after races, i know about it, but i really hate being cold. i think i'll have some ice bags on standby with a thing of saran wrap. OR just feign feeling bad enough to get an IV of fluids.

dallison

Yeah, i wouldn't look forward to an ice bath at all, never. I guess i would qualify now to put a 26.2 sticker somewhere on my car. A 13.1 didn't seem right.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

oh...please don't. the 26.2 stickers are cute...the 13.1 stickers are even cuter!

imj0257

iTrader: (1)

Congrats both of you!

Well, I just pulled the trigger and signed up for the Dallas Marathon in 4 weeks so I guess I am up next! I'm excited but also a little nervous lol.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

awesome! ^^ if you put the miles in...then no sweat. you'll be fine (relatviely speaking...any given day...lol). i didn't think i was going to come close to a 3:45 heading into it, but just said to myself, hey, we'll see how the body is feeling and go from there.

just go out a little more conservative on the front half and then tear it up on the back half.

imj0257

iTrader: (1)

I am certainly working on putting the miles in. This is the most I've been running since I've been running and I figure with winter coming up this is my best shot at finishing a marathon. I haven't run any since my 18 miles last Thursday; I'll do a regular/light run today and plan on running 20 miles this weekend if I feel all rested, if not then I will do it the following weekend and I think that will be it for my long runs until the marathon.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

good plan. no matter how much it hurts on race day...keep running, the pain will end sooner to get to the finish line. lol.

CerberusKy

iTrader: (1)

@Dallison, that is a good time for hitting the wall! A little more training and a couple more races and you will be looking very good! Just an FYI, I am a slow starter, and get faster as the race goes on. You may want to play around with a slower start. Also, I usually put one or two runs in at 28, or 30 miles prior to a marathon.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

^^you do ultras...i dont' know if i could tolerate running more than 26...hence...i do IMs instead.

dallison

Thanks, best of luck with your full.

Rockstar21

iTrader: (1)

broke into the 5's last night.

i ran a 5:45 on my 2nd mile. i dont plan to run this time reguarly, it was just a goal of mine.

my previous best was 6:08 so i demolished it by over 20seconds.

now, back to the 7 and 8 minute miles lol.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

^ damn gazelle. my physiology is not designed to go uber fast...but i'll outlast the sprinters! lol.

Rockstar21

iTrader: (1)

as the saying goes "that'll do pig, that'll do"

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

wait, you only ran 2 miles total?

Rockstar21

iTrader: (1)

on gym days, i run 2 miles to the gym, work out, then run 2 miles home.

there is no way im running that time anything over 3 miles. (or consistently for several miles for that matter)
to add to that, i could not run 1 mile and get this time. my legs dont kick in until after i have completed at LEAST 1 mile.

this particular run was on the return home run.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

ah..i see. nice work even after your workout.

dallison

I will run another marathon sometime next year. I don't know if there will be a spring and fall one or just one.

I will do the following to get back the 15-20 minutes plus some;

Run consistant 35-50 mile weeks for 4-6 months.

switch from sports beans to gels. It is hard to eat these when running and then combine being worn out, and it takes forever. I didn't use the gels this last race b/c i didn't train with them.

I'll buy a hydration belt. I think i'll like the ability to drink when i want. But, the more i think about it, adding 2-3 lbs might not be as desirable. I guess i could use it in training and rely on the water stations during the race.

I know what i am capable of now. If i choose a full that isn't too warm, i could realistically finish in 3:15-3:25 when trained properly.

I hear yasso 800's are really good for you too.

Wear lighter shoes. I normally run in cumulus and kayano but purchased a pair of asics 33 something and they are only 7 oz instead of 11. The lighter shoes will definitely help once trained.

CerberusKy

iTrader: (1)

Check out the hydration backpacks as well. I used to use a belt, but switched to a pack. I use the pack on anything over 13 miles. In my opinion they are more convenient, and ride better than a belt, they also hold more fluids. I can usually run a marathon with just the fluid (and a couple of gu's) with what the bladder holds. Also, the extra weight will be mitigated by not having to hit the aid stations. You can make up a lot of time by skipping the aid stations. Good luck!

dallison

The forerunner 410 w/hrm has been ordered. I got it from bj's for $170.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

nice! good price too.

subinf

Damn good price.

dallison

I've used the 410 a few times already and it is very interesting. I am trying to keep 143bpm and it is a little difficult but somewhat easy to do since the audible tells you when you 're over and within the desired range.
I am anywhere from 9:00-11:00 mm keeping w/in the 143 hbpm.

I am dealing with a sore achilles/lower calf pain right now so no real long runs.

I will try this LHR thing until about the end of feb and then continue on with marathon training. I want my 3:15-3:20 or faster marathon that i can run.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

dallison...your "aerobic" HR zone pace will improve in the next 4-6 weeks. stick with it...you'lll find a couple of extra gears when you need them for races.

i remember reading about a fast old guy (in his 60's). he did his long runs at a 9min pace. his race pace was a 7 min pace. scary, i know.

my endurance friend...he usually paces out at a 9+ min mile for his long runs. his marathon PR is a 3:23 (twice). he does NO speed work. most of his marathon finishing times range from 3:40 to a 4:30. when he was training for ultra stuff his back to back marathons would be 3:50's. the last marathon he did was at the one we did, no training, ran with the wounded warriors flag...finished in 4:05. he's just a damn machine.

when spring comes then sprinkle in the speed at the short races. i'll be interested to see who your body responds. first, you need to get healthy (achilles).

dallison

I will. I don't plan on doing any races jan/feb or maybe even march. I would like to do a halfor full in March or April so it's nice and cool.
I can't wait to go on a 10-17 mile run with this thing to really see what i can do. I may have done speedwork maybe 5 times last year.
I have a 20% hill that i would do 110 meter sprints on. I would do it at 90-100% and then jog/walk to the bottom, rest for 30 seconds, or count to 30, and then sprint back up.
I had just ran a 20:03 turkey trot less than two weeks after the full. It felt ok, but i really wanted to quit or slow down. My splits were even but recovering from the full is in order before i do this stuff again. I am sure that might be why my achilles hurts.

I can understand why they say to resume running slowly and not race fast, but with some of the dumb stuff i so this is just a learning phase.

While my heart rate should be set at 143, 180-age; is there any wiggle room to increase HR? I didn't know if having some experience gave you a couple beats more.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

yes it does give a few beats. i'll have to look up the exact criteria but there is a little bit of wiggle room. the key is to stay UNDER that number.

i started running last week (first time since the marathon) and was running slow as molassas. i think my HR was in the low 130's and my pace was SLOW. only reason was b/c i was sore as hell from lifting weights. my pace will pick back up this week and i'll be good to go.

the turkey trot was an indicator that you probably haven't fully recovered from the marathon. esp if you felt like quitting. achilles issues can take a long time to heal if not taken care of properly. stay away from hills if you can. sleep in a night splint or the strasburg sock to keep it stretched at night.

dallison

If anyone is looking for a garmin, amazon has the 410 with hrm for $150.

dallison

I've upped it from 143 to 145, and that's all i'm going. It seems to help. Yesterday i ran 11 miles and there's a few large hills. I walked up them to keep my HR down like you're supposed to in the beginning, but also to make my achiiles hurt less.
I started to lift dumbbells last week. I use to lift in college and had a decent base but running definitely takes a toll on that. I am doing 4 sets of 15-20 of everything, obvoisly with lower weights. I'm trying to strengthen my back and shoulders mainly but arms and chest will be a side benefit.

I'm doing what i can to be a stronger runner next year. When i look at the results from my long races and where i place, i'm not satisfied.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

4 sets of 15-20?! dude, you're wasting your time with those sets/reps. the literature shows there is a point of diminishing returns, usualy past 2 sets and 15 reps. optimal stength gains are done at 60% of your 1 repetition max for 12-15 reps. based on your frame, you aren't one that is going to gain a ton of bulk as far as i can tell. i know you're probably not wanting to trash your legs in the weight room to only run on tired sore legs...keep it at that 60% of your 1RM and you won't really be that sore after a couple of weeks. i think there are only a few exceptions in which i would do 2x20, but most of the time it's 2 sets to 12-15 reps (which is great for proper strength/endurance building). it's all about quality not quantity. just trying to save you some time dallison.

dallison

Good to know, i always wondered if i was just wasting time. I'm not doing it to bulk up in any way though, it'll never happen. I tried in college and lost all the weight and got back down to my current scrawny weight.

I'm not going to do any legs, that's what my running is for. I don't want to gain any muscle in my legs for running. I tried that in HS and it slowed me down.

I always wondered if i was wasting time going with a 4th set, but knowing that a third set wasted time also is good.

I can stick to two sets of 20. I am very good at proper form. I have always made sure the negative was just as smooth as pushing the weight. There are so many people who swing the weights, slouch, etc. You know what i'm talking about.

dallison

Good luck. How are you feeling?

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

up your resistance a little. if you can crank out 4 sets at the wight you are doing....you certainly can do more. you won't get bulky...you're an ectomorph...

doing some leg stuff will help with hills and overall strengthening of tendons and ligaments of the lower body. body weight squats, single leg squats, plyometrics....nothing crazy heavy. single leg dead lifts. this also integrates some core work too!

your data is hard to follow...without knowing your course, the analysis is hard. it seems like your body is slowly starting to respond.

dallison

Do you mean running data?

http://www.runningahead.com/logs/cfc...edf74b22d4aba8

I did think about the lunges....