rezurex

if we can take out the religious factor, i would appreciate it... my girlfriend is the one with the catholic issues. i dont... no offense to you christians out there.

i do however believe in karma and ethics.

like i said its a matter of choosing ethics or logic. i am leaning much more towards the side of logic.. but the decision has not been finally made yet. i will let you guys know when she finally makes the decision.

-rez

DHRJDMBA

Look Rez - I have been reluctant to jump into this thread, but you and she need to sit down and make some tough decisions - yes or no. You need to tell her where you are coming from and what you want - honestly and let her do the same. You can still love her and not want to be a daddy. It sounds like both of you are scared to really say what is on your mind - if you lead her into thinking you want this child and you are not serious about being a dad other than to avoid a fight then you are stuck with it. I think that what a lot of people are saying is be honest with yourself and with her. If she decides to have it then she know where you stand and what you want. It may not be ideal, but you are fooling yourself if you think that keeping the peace is going to be a good idea. No reason to be a prick, but you need to speak you mind (in a reasonable way).

CLeanATL

if your a man and able to take care of the child than you need to have it. life>abortion. if she is pregnant, she is pregnant for a reason.

ironchef10

Well, that's mighty Christian of you.

I think the post was Rez's attempt to get advice from his friends...not for everyone to go out and buy a soapbox and bicker amongst each other about the choices we have made/he should make, etc.

Leave Rez some USEFUL advice, or leave the thread.

And no...I don't own the thread. Just my

zamo

Always Dirty

It's not as big an issue for all girls, Silvia. And no girl is going to be 'gung-ho' about it. He seems to be leaning to one side already, so we don't need to make the situation any tougher on him than it has to be. Not picking on you specifically (there have been many worse posts in this thread so far), but everybody handles situations differently. Him and his girl need to weigh which option terrifies them more and has more serious long term consequences.

rezurex

thanks always dirty.. u gave me some deep advice... will take it into consideration.

SilviaGTO

well im just thinking, if shes reluctant to do it now, chances are shes probably going to regret it. youre right, its not a big issue for all girls, but i think if it werent a big issue for her, her decision would have already been made.

SilviaGTO

im not religious and i dont think abortion is fine. i think everything has a right to live its life.. yes were over populated but still..

to me, killing a life so you dont have to deal with the consequences of using the "pull out" method is unfair to the child who is now in this.

but ultimately, yes its their decision.. but then think of it this way. the mother is going to be going to law school and the father soon to med school. i would assume the offspring is going to be fairly intelligent. we need more intelligent people in this world.

oneilc

This is a very tough spot to be in. If she has a child your life is ruined. If you can talk her into abortion
she may regret it and hold it against you. If you don't want a child you shouldn't be forced into having one in my opinion. If you had unprotected sex, it was a choice made by both parties. The girl could have easily told you to use protection every time. Basically, both of you are at fault so why is the result
a one person decision?

SilviaGTO

all of it is killing. youre taking somethings life, youre killing it.

putting a dog down after its lived its life because it is suffering, is one thing.

killing a baby, fetus or whatever because you dont think you can handle being parents is another.

I dont mean to be harsh.. this is a very serious decision and I would like him to hear some other points besides ABORT ABORT ABORT. I think he needs to consider EVERYTHING

VeeralS05

That could be the problem, in my health class teacher that I took as a freshman in high school said if you squirt on to her there is a higher chance of pregnancy through that.... Cause if you shoot it out on her it can drip down words when she gets up or whtever, did you shoot on her pelvic region by any chance?! but anyway, sucks man put on 2 next time...

ironchef10

What comes to the forefront in your view is the typical abortion argument which has a nasty habit of drowning everything else out. I think we've already heard most of the options. Abortion, adoption, marriage. Aside from single parenthood (or perhaps sending the child floating down the Nile in a basket), I can't think of any others.

Perhaps it's best to leave him to his thoughts at this point.

Always Dirty

Everyone's reluctant about doing it, but there's a difference between true, life-long regret and the occasional pangs of guilt. It's a decision that they both have to reach together after weighing the pros and cons of each situation. Individual circumstance plays a major role, IMO, and the only ones who can make the decision are him and her.

mesmerize

i just finally got around to reading this whole thread... and it kinda surprises me that only a few people are really pointing out that ADOPTION is a viable option here. almost everyone keeps saying it's just a choice between keeping the baby and raising it, or having an abortion.

i did some research projects on adoption in college, so it's just something that i always think about when i hear of situations like this. rez is there a reason why you guys don't seem to be considering it?


on a personal note... my 19 year old cousin got pregnant about three years ago. she ended up marrying her boyfriend and now they have the most gorgeous little boy i've ever seen... he's the coolest little kid. my cousin and her husband are both still attending school & their lives are pretty crazy, but they're very happy and they make it work. i'm not saying this happens in that many cases, or that it would work for you... i'm just sayin it's possible for things to turn out well.

it just breaks my heart to think that her beautiful little boy might not be here on this earth if his parents had made a different decision and terminated the pregnancy...


(i know everyone has different views here... i just wanted to give my 2 cents... i do respect everyone else's opinions)

oneilc

I think everyone assumes that if this girl has a baby she won't give it up for adoption based on her religious beliefs and family. In this specific case adoption doesn't seem to be an option. I get the feeling that even if this girl said she was going to give the baby away for adoption she would change her mind and keep it.

rezurex

adoption is not an option for us at all... we've mentioned it but we both agree that its not the right thing to do... if we have the kid we'll have to raise it ourselves.

Scrib

My $.02...

If Rez can go out and blow cash on a S/C (he said he was planning on gettting one), he can certainly put some diapers on the kid and provide for him/her.

I don't care if you're 30 or 21... There's never a good time to have a child for most, from a financial standpoint.

Rez needs to step up, and provide for his child. Yeah, he's young... But he's not too young to take on the responsibilities he NEEDS to take on.

Step up Rez. It's the right thing to do.

Slimey

Yes, but there are better times in one's life then others. Dropping $5K one time is a lot different then the long term financial burden of a child.

(this is coming from a parent)

mesmerize

wow okay... it kinda blows my mind to think that you see adoption as "not the right thing to do," but view abortion as "the right thing to do"...? but that's just me

oneilc

Oh yeah .. I meant to ask this before. Rex: you're 21 and your parents keep tabs on your bank accounts? WTF is up with that?

DHRJDMBA

Adoption has consequences as well - seen a lot of them and been involved with them working for a lawyer when I was in school - hard to have a child and then give it up - means that Rez and his girl need to tell their families about this situation - also means your child is out there being rasied by someone else.

Always Dirty

Money isn't the only issue - you also need to think about what kind of parents you and the girl can be for the kid at this point. It doesn't sound like he's thinking of marrying her, so what happens when he does go on and find someone else? The traditional Daddy is replaced by a monthly check and the occasional visit? Many, many issues at play here.

That, and he doesn't have a child at this point to provide for - he has a girl who's young, financially insecure, and likely scared to death, who's carrying around something that isn't even going to be a human by the definition of our laws for another 8 months or so.

95gt

Uhmm

That seems really weird. You will kill the kid rather than let it live with someone else. That is an interesting way to look at it.

SilviaGTO

there are plenty of stupid and ridiculous laws. and seriously if he thinks of his child like that, then yes he needs to abort.

Im not completely against abortion. but im just more ticked by this because it seems more like a "i dont want to be inconvienced by a child". Just seems like an overall avoidance of the consequences of fucking without a condom.

But it seems their minds are already made up. And you know.. if he nor the mother are willing to give it up for adoption, the other option is that they take care of it.. and well.. thats a bigger responsibility than just owning up to the fact that you have a child. Maybe it would be better off to be aborted

CLeanATL

Always Dirty

Should the rest of theirs lives be changed completely (negatively it would seem from the facts presented) because the chosen method of BC either failed or was used slightly incorrectly? What are they being punished for? They've learned their lesson and if the two of them can live with their decision then they are free to make that decision. Sure, it will drive the bible thumpers and a few others up the wall but it really doesn't concern them and it sure as shit isn't their decision.

And having a child is far beyond an "inconvenience". Anybody who thinks otherwise isn't going to be much of a parent.

Nothing personal Silvia - just laying out the other side.

SilviaGTO

agreed but, its not that they were using BC.. he was using the pull out method, which im sorry, is really really naive if you think that works.

you ask what theyre being punished for, I ask what the child is being punished for. I know its their decision, and as i told rez earlier, i hope the best for him no matter what he chooses.
Im just saying it appears to me that their only reasoning for wanting an abortion is the inconvenience factor and the girl is afraid of her parents. Maybe if he was like, i cannot provide a good life for this child, i am unable to take care of it, the mother is unfit to take care of the child..

something.. im just rather disturbed by the reasoning behind the abortion.

and i know its nothing personal, and i hope everyone else knows that as well.

But i mean.. once they go through with it, you cant just be like.. oops i changed my mind.

Scrib

No, but he's close to having a degree and being done with school. And then real employment comes where income becomes part of a young man's vocabulary.

People all the time bring children into this world and are much worse off than others that we'd consider in poor shape. But they get by... Mostly because they want to make it the best possible for their child. If Rez wants the best, he can make it happen.


OK, I see... So one takes it upon himself to have somewhat careless sex, and since he's young he doesn't have to be held accountable and can therefore just up and abort a child? He's 21 for christ sake, not 16, living with mommy and daddy. He'll be in the workforce in a year... He'll just have to become responsible a year earlier.

I don't want to begin to debate the whole abortion thing, as it'll get way too political. Let's leave this out of the thread, since it'll then get moved to R&P and get killed off.

He needs to stand up and be a man for the actions he decided to engage in. That's my opinion. You obviously have different thoughts, which is cool. It's good to hear both sides and have civil discussions...

Always Dirty

He was using rubs and pulling out and hosing her down - not quite the pull out method but not that safe either. Honest mistake - they thought they were being good but they weren't.

The punishment issue comes down to what your particular beliefs are regarding the beginning of human life. Is a 1 month old fetus human? Not according to our society, or that of much of the rest of the "civilized" world, but I don't want to go near that topic. Different people, diff beliefs, diff choices, but it is the value placed on those beliefs that slides the bar of reasoning one way or the other - if someone doesn't think abortion is a big deal then they'll get one at the age of 30 just b/c they aren't married. If someone thinks it's kind of a big deal then they might have the kid in that situation.
Once the deed is done there is no going back and the person responsible has no choice but to go on and live a normal life. People have an impressive ability to shut quasi-traumatic events out of their memory until it's directly addressed, and even then you have to weigh occasional feelings of sorrow against the next 18 years of your life, the financial implications, the quality of the child's life (single parent?),etc. This life is short and you only get one run through it. If someone wants to do what they can to control the way that their life unfolds I can't blame them for that.

2003type-s6

Do the crime, do the time. You created a life bub, life isn't always fair and able to be planned out. If it's any consolation, I've got a couple friends, one of them isn't even with his old lady anymore, and if he could go back in time and erase the creation of his boy, he wouldn't, not for the world. However, one guy I know should never have been allowed to be a father, he's a drunk, the mother is a drunk and a big nasty lesbian now. That little girl already has no chance. Unfortunately in your situation, you cannot just return the unwanted thing back to the store you got it from. If the mother to be is a kind person and has some values, it should be o.k. Most mothers change their mind about adoption after or a short time after they hold their baby after it is born, and then the kid is going to come looking for you later in life and be pissed why you gave him up.

Always Dirty

What crime? HAS he created a life? HAS he already "got" this thing? Those are the issues, nobody's taking someone else's personal beliefs as fact just yet...

Dem1K

iTrader: (1)

wayyyy too much controversy up in this thread, that's for sure

TypeSAddict

Is there really a choice here? If she agrees, the answer is simple, ABORT

2003type-s6

Not really a crime per se, but unless it isn't his, which is probably is because he said she was a virgin before him, so yes, THEY did it. The creation of life has already begun, some people believe life starts as soon as the sperm hits the egg and the cell divides, that is ridiculous...........but after a couple of weeks it is not just a couples cells splitting.

2003type-s6

Really this is a lesson to others in irresponisibility. The girl should have been on some kind of birth control, sexual education is no secret anymore, especially in the U.S.

Always Dirty

^ Agree wholeheartedly.

Slimey

I assume you are assuming that his stating that his planning to go to medical school is equivalent to having a significant income very soon. I take umbrage to your assumption.

At 21, I'm assuming that he's not yet in med school, or just about to start. He has four years of school to look forward to, three to seven years of residency and possibly one to three years of fellowship. The average medical student graduates with $200K of debt (not including undergrad either). A resident makes in the realm of $30K - $50K per year depending on level and location. He or she works long, long hours and home life plays a distant second fiddle for many years.

Child rearing involves time and money, both of which he won't have for a good while. Something's gotta give...

Yes, maybe 10 years from now he'll have a reasonable income and reasonable home time. I don't envy anyone that has a child at the beginning of training. If this was me at that point in time my wife (then girlfriend) would have had a limo ride and all expense paid trip to the abortion clinic -- and having discussed this exact scenario with her in the past, I can tell you that she'd more then welcome the abortion.

Both my wife and myself are pretty serious about our schooling and careers. A baby early on would have changed our lives drastically and our level of success definitely would have been affected.

Rezurex is not married to this girl, nor did he have any plans on marrying her last week. Little information was given, but they both sound like career and education driven individuals. A baby would seriously effect their goals and there would be serious compromises that neither of them are ready to make.

Few times are optimal to have a baby, but some are better then others. We live in a modern world -- family planning should not just be two words randomly stuck together.

qieuoTr

dude you are so wrong. While I was in college 4 years ago, I saw several returning adults that came back to finish up their studies. Some of whom, never went to college. During some of my pre-med courses I came to know this older chick in her early 30's who had a kid(the girl would come to class, sometimes). she was returning to try and become a doctor, and she did just that. In fact she is doing her residency right now! you are very wrong about a kid ruining your future! I have seen living proof, of it not being so. If you want an abortion, have an abortion, because you are not man/woman enough to bring life into this world, but for heavens sake, don't say the child will ruin your future!

TypeSAddict

If you are going to medical school I feel bad for any of your future patients.