Originally Posted by SwervinCL

For once. This is amazing!!!!!

Originally Posted by soopa

There is no question whatsoever. Scientifically, life has begun.

Originally Posted by fdl

Wow, thats just incredibly closed minded thinking. No offence, but have you ever studied ethics theory, maybe some philosophy, perhaps studied moral dilemmas?

Read this page and then get back to me. It may help you understand how we can argue abstractly.

http://www.miracosta.cc.ca.us/home/lmoon/ET.html

Originally Posted by AcuraDriver2006

Here is what I believe.

#1 I believe the pregnant woman should have the final say to what she wants to do with her baby. Have an abortion, have the baby and put him/her up for adoption, or simple keep the baby.

#2 People who are Pro-Life should stay home, voice their opinion like here online but stay the F* out of the abortion clinic. We don't need folks like you to give more stress to already troubled mothers.

#3 It's a moral issue. If you are Pro Choice and you think you should have the abortion, then do it. If you are Pro Life and think the baby should be saved, then when your pregnant or your significant other is pregnant, have the baby......


Bottom line is, don't tell other what to do. You're not perfect yourself, what made your decision and opinion more important then ones who carrying the child.

Originally Posted by fdl

The most amazing thing about this discussion is that it has remained very civil I thought it would turn into a clusterfck of a thread.

Originally Posted by Astroboy

welcome to the "new" AZ

Originally Posted by Astroboy

This is how I read TME's staement. She'd rather her mother choose to save her own life, rather than bring a child into the world without being ready, able, or capable of caring for it. And this is exactly my opinion too. I feel abortion is a better choice than attempting to raise a child alone, or without any stability.

Originally Posted by CUNextTuesday

Granted, but is that fertilized egg a living being? I think not.

Originally Posted by GIBSON6594

Probably the only harsh comment in the thread, of course directed at me

Originally Posted by atsxdude

I dont believe that for a second. Unless you are suicidal. thats just self preservation there. Death or a chance(albeit not much of a chance). Logical sense would be to choose a chance.

Originally Posted by SwervinCL

For once. This is amazing!!!!!

Originally Posted by TheMainEvEnt

So in your mind, no person in their right mind could have made such decision without being suicidal. Therefore, you concluded that I must be suicidal...
well thank you doctor, perhaps I should attend your next lecture, may I ask which university you will be lecturing next... or should I check myself into a mental hospital since I value my mom's decision more than my own because I love her.

Originally Posted by Astroboy

lol, i'm allowed to break my own rules

Originally Posted by AcuraDriver2006

if she had an abortion, you wouldn't exist. Nobody would know you, there is no need for a future for you. You know what I mean? You woudn't exist and therefore you would have no friends and nobody cared about you. Yes, there would be things you could have made an impact in this world, but none of that would have mattered if your mother decided to have that abortion.

Originally Posted by TheMainEvEnt

So in your mind, no person in their right mind could have made such decision without being suicidal. Therefore, you concluded that I must be suicidal...
well thank you doctor, perhaps I should attend your next lecture, may I ask which university you will be lecturing next... or should I check myself into a mental hospital since I value my mom's decision more than my own because I love her.

Originally Posted by TheMainEvEnt

So in your mind, no person in their right mind could have made such decision without being suicidal. Therefore, you concluded that I must be suicidal...
well thank you doctor, perhaps I should attend your next lecture, may I ask which university you will be lecturing next... or should I check myself into a mental hospital since I value my mom's decision more than my own because I love her.

Originally Posted by atsxdude

I dont believe that for a second. Unless you are suicidal. thats just self preservation there. Death or a chance(albeit not much of a chance). Logical sense would be to choose a chance.

Originally Posted by CUNextTuesday

atsxdude is the one who knows the "meaning of life." He's also made us aware of the fact that someone put us on this planet. Amazing isn't it? He has the answers that no one else does!

Originally Posted by leedogg

And THIS is the choice and consequences just made for that future child. So once again, at what point do we have the right to determine that future child's right to live?

Originally Posted by leedogg

And I would rather my mom gave me up for adoption. Fortunately we, as sentient beings can choose and make this decision. The basic fundamental breakdown of an abortion is that it places the right to choose of the adult over the future right to choose of that child's. Which comes down to my earlier example illustrating at what point do we determine that that new being has the right to live?

Originally Posted by TheMainEvEnt

So in your mind, no person in their right mind could have made such decision without being suicidal. Therefore, you concluded that I must be suicidal...
well thank you doctor, perhaps I should attend your next lecture, may I ask which university you will be lecturing next... or should I check myself into a mental hospital since I value my mom's decision more than my own because I love her.

Originally Posted by CUNextTuesday

Morally, you are going to think your way and I'm going to think mine. Fortunately for myself, we do legally have that right.

Originally Posted by atsxdude

everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If you noticed, there are very few facts in this thread and a whole lot of emotional people.

Originally Posted by soopa

I don't think he said all that, no need to be hostile.

He has a point.

You're arguing that an unborn life can't choose to be born because it is unborn, but you say you would choose not to be born.

Besides that...

It's a decision you can't conciously make... under any circumstance. It's just like saying you'd push your mom out of the way of a moving bus... sacrificing yourself.

It's easy to say you would, it's easy to think you would... but until you have to do it... who knows.

If your mom needed a new heart to live, would you kill yourself to give her yours? It's a romantic idea to think you would... but until it's a reality... who knows...

Originally Posted by TheMainEvEnt

Adam: I think I would give up my heart hence my life for my mom to have a chance to live. I also understand what you are trying to say.

Originally Posted by TheMainEvEnt

no

Originally Posted by soopa

I don't doubt you believe that.

Nevertheless, it's one of those things that you just can't decide until you're in the situation.

When it comes down to it, I'd bet most people would choose self preservation over ANYONE else... despite their best intentions. It's natural.

The only case where self preservation seems to be thrown unanimously out the window is in the case of a child. This is why your mother wouldn't even take your heart. She'd die. So you'd never be in the situation to choose her over you to begin with.

Originally Posted by TheMainEvEnt

no

Originally Posted by AcuraDriver2006

For Your Information. TME has a phD in psychology. She works for a very credible firm and volunteers at the local hospitals on her own time. Part of her volunteers involves helping single mothers dealing with pregnancy and people dealing with AIDS.

Originally Posted by CUNextTuesday

That's interesting considering we're discussing abortion. I do agree with you though.

Originally Posted by soopa

Which is why people use the "it's not a person yet" argument as a crutch.

We all need to believe that in order to justify the un-natural act of aborting our child.

It's a choice we have the right to make.

Originally Posted by TheMainEvEnt

My feeling is I would rather let my my mother choose what's best for her life than to bring me into this world and have to worry about so many things and not be ready for it.
People make mistakes, and they shouldn't be punished for it because they made one mistake.

Originally Posted by AcuraDriver2006

For Your Information. TME has a phD in psychology. She works for a very credible firm and volunteers at the local hospitals on her own time. Part of her volunteers involves helping single mothers dealing with pregnancy and people dealing with AIDS.

Originally Posted by leedogg

And would you like to make this decision for every new life out there?

Originally Posted by CUNextTuesday

I don't think people use that as a crutch. It just proves the difference between the two situations. The fact that many people have abortions and that many would even consider it shows how different a born child is from an unborn child.

No parent in their right mind would think of killing their children. The vast majority would do anything to preserve their childrens' lives. But for some reason many people would abort. hmmmmm

Originally Posted by soopa

Originally Posted by atsxdude

so im assuming that statement is 100% false.

Originally Posted by leedogg

And would you like to make this decision for every new life out there?

And what if they later realized that having this abortion was a mistake? Hmm I wonder if they could sue the state for not protecting the life of the child while they were under stress and duress and succumbed to a moment of weakness?

Originally Posted by atsxdude

And what does that have to do with my statement? I'm talking about this thread as a whole.

Originally Posted by Astroboy

no, but that's exactly what you pro-life people want to be able to do.