RaviNJCLs

iTrader: (4)

To me the women that toss a child in a dumpster made the decision to do that the minute after it sank in that they were pregnant and that they had no desire to have the child....and that they would not terminate the pregnancy.

RaviNJCLs

iTrader: (4)

SIDE NOTE: Did you confirm that she was your biological mom? I knew that you wanted it to have a better idea of your medical pass.

SwervinCL

Naw. My mom paid an investigative co. to find out who it really is. Im not gonna get involved with the unknown.

I think my mom wants to know more than I do. Which is cool, i guess....


Thank you for the concern.

RaviNJCLs

iTrader: (4)

ericajackhannahjamie?

cute!

SwervinCL

Whys it stickied?

Oh i know... First debate ever that didnt get ugly, and didnt go off track.....

Gotcha...

Pull_T

Why doesn;t someone abort this thread over to the Politics and Religion forum rather than making it a sticky?

SwervinCL

^^ Because that would open a whole nother can of worms..... Then it would get out of control.

moeronn

And then we couldn't reply with just a smilie without getting banned

CUNextTuesday

I opened this topic in the D&R forum because I figured we'd get more personal answers...

I think it would have taken a totally different path had it been in the religion and politics forum (probably would have gotten a lot uglier too).

SwervinCL

hehe

RaviNJCLs

iTrader: (4)

CUNextTuesday

I'm still wondering....does anyone know any statistics on adoptions? How long children wait things like that...Anybody?

fdl

I font it ironic that you have arnold in your avatar.

ericajackhannahjamie?

Because abortion has more to do with moral issues than religious issues. Plus the fact it has little to do with politics, unless you make it

It will stay here

Mike 350Z

My old baseball coach adopted a white baby from VA from a mother that just didn't want to keep it and I know it took them a long time and several thousands of dollars and something about living in a hotel for weeks on end down in VA was thrown in too. But I know there are many people out there like him that want to give their wife a child but it doesn't work for whatever reason and will go to great lengths to adopt someone.

ericajackhannahjamie?

http://statistics.adoption.com/infor...-children.html

http://www.prb.org/Template.?Section...ContentID=7951

perhaps this might help

Mike 350Z

I'm curious as to whether or not this topic is beaten like a dead horse only by Americans, or around the world too. I'd be willing the bet the former. The way I see it, there are many things that make the rest of the world look at Americans as fat, lazy, easiest-way-out, woe-is-me type people, and some of those things are:

McDonald's
Liposuction
Plastic surgery
Welfare
Abortion
Get-rich-quick schemes

You may think I'm joking around, but I'm not. Abortion to me is just another example of people taking the easy way out when they aren't happy with something in their lives.

Girls: What if he "forgets" to pull out or bring a rubber? Guys: What if she's not really on the pill or forgets to take it for a few weeks?

Take responsibility for your own actions and deal with the consequences (having the baby if you find out you're preggo) if you fuck up and encounter an "unplanned" pregnancy.

moeronn

I'd be willing to bet that abortion is nearly as common in other countries where it would be safe to perform them. It just isn't politicized as much as it is hear.

As for Plastic surgery, women in China are getting it just to help their chances of getting a job and advancing their careers. (learned that on Discovery Atlas )

In general, your statement seems pretty true. Your list, on the other hand, does not provide the best examples of why.

RaviNJCLs

iTrader: (4)

NOT TRUE!!! The fact is that most "Developed" countries have abortions. And the US is not leading the way. The US is at about 23%....YES, it's high. Russia is more than double. Canada is slightly higher.

Below are some more accurate numbers....

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/poli...tedstates.html

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/poli...edkingdom.html

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/poli...ab-russia.html

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/poli...ab-canada.html

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/poli...frgermany.html

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/poli...ab-france.html

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/poli...b-prchina.html

Erz

It can be an expensive thing to go through but depending on where you work, some companies will refund a part of your expenses.

SwervinCL

Not only its expensive, but very time consuming. You have to go to classes, infront of a judge, meetings with social workers. I think my mom told me that it took them almost a year, if not a little longer, to get me.

Mike 350Z

^^ok maybe that's a little harsh, but that dude rubs me the wrong way.

the way i see it is one should just be responsible for their actions. if a girl gets pregnant she should have to go thru 9 months of morning sickness and the painful process of labor and all.

On the guy's side, if he knocks someone up, he should be ready to send a check somewhere every month for the next 18 years at the very least. Just taking responsibility for your actions is all i'm concerned about, nevermind the ability/inability to raise the kid.

ericajackhannahjamie?

Jack and Mike. see pm please

CUNextTuesday

If you got your partner pregnant and she wanted an abortion, would you support that choice? Would you pay for the abortion (or at least help pay)?

fast-tl

That last part sounds awfully contradictory. All you care is about is responsibility for their actions, who cares if their unfit or unable to raise the kid?! WTF? That last part sounds pretty irresponsible to ME. I certainly care whether they're able to support the kid. If the couple is barely getting by themselves, using birth control and has an accident, that should not equate to automatic family. Most kids should be born "on purpose" to assure them of the best life.

RaviNJCLs

iTrader: (4)

I guess you're entitled to your own opinion. I'm guessing you have never been faced with this personally. I think if you do come face to face with this issue, you may want to be a bit more open to choice.

fast-tl

22 sees life quite differently than 31 or 33. That's for certain.

subinf

I've always approached the abortion situation from the legal perspective (and will continue to do so) but after talking to more and more parents about their expeience during the pregnancy I realized how personal everything gets - whereas before I was completely blind to that side of the issue.

Mike 350Z

I had a little scare when I was 19, and honestly I was scared shitless as to what would happen. Considering it was just a little fling, I really had no say in what she would have done and I understood that. But know, even though I don't want a kid, I'm pretty sure I could take one on if it happened. I would let the girl do what she wanted, but I don't think I could ever look at her the same way.

Mike 350Z

Who are we to judge if someone is raising/supporting a kid properly? How do you define "properly?"

CUNextTuesday

Drunk pot smoking mother = not so proper

fast-tl

Ever heard of Child Protective Services, Mike97 3.0P? They have plenty 'o policies that judge "proper" standards of care. And guess what? There are more cases than investigators...why? Because there are plenty of people (parents AND kids) who'd have been better off had the parents NOT become parents. My point was that your statement was awfully one-sided:

'Be responsible and get that baby delivered. After that I don't give a shit if you can take care of it or not; at least you didn't have an abortion.'

Something to that effect, is what it sounds like. Surely you understand some people shouldn't be parents, and not all unwanted/disadvantaged kids are the blond-haired, blue eyed infants that are most popular for adoption. Not all kids available for adoption have adoptive parents waiting for them. In those cases (let alone the horror stories on the news), the CHILDREN pay the price for pro-life positions like yours.

SwervinCL

Mike 350Z

^^^Look, I don't even know 100% where I stand on this issue. There are so many factors involved and parties affected by either choice. I just don't like how people can get an abortion because it's not "convenient" for them to have a baby at the current moment, or because they "don't feel like taking care of it" (easy way out kind of thing).


So what about all those parents that actually wanted kids and planned them out, but just suck at being parents (in CPS's views)?? Are we supposed to go around saying "you should have aborted that kid?"

CUNextTuesday

I don't think anyone's saying that they should have aborted that child, but that they should (and do) have that option.

RaviNJCLs

iTrader: (4)

I've met a lot of women that had an abortion. One of my ex's friends had 3 before she was 21. I've also met a couple that kept the child. Unless you speak to someone close to you that had to make that choice, you will always look at someone that had an abortion differently. When I was younger, and one of my friends told me she had one, I thought I would never be able to look her in the face again, and then I put myself in her shoes.

It is commendable that you would accept the responsibility though.

BustedJack

For those couples who plans to have kids but just can't has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with a woman who's pregnant and is thinking about having an abortion.

RaviNJCLs

iTrader: (4)

I say smack them in the head and be a better parent. People who plan on being parents at least seem to have accepted the responsibility of raising a child. I would never say to them that they should have aborted the kid. Now if these same parents decide that the wanted to beat, neglect, physically abuse, mentally abuse and/or sexually abuse these kids....I would say the kid would have been better off aborted.

SwervinCL

So said it exactly right. "There are so many factors involved and parties affected by either choice."

I never said to use abortion as an easy way out, but sometimes its just better off. It ALL depends on the whole situation.