Stuck accelerator kills 4 in Santee *Recall - Page 2*
01-27-2010, 10:37 AM
#321
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
There is still no evidence of any computer failures related to this issue. I will say that there is definitely something wrong beyond floor mats but it still affects a miniscule percentage of all the cars Toyota makes. All you jackals circling Toyota like hungry vultures makes me laugh. Its as if every car they build is some sort of death machine.
What the Avalon story proved was that its possible to regain control of one of these afflicted vehicles (and indeed drive it to the dealer). I still have no concerns driving my IS350 at all.
What the Avalon story proved was that its possible to regain control of one of these afflicted vehicles (and indeed drive it to the dealer). I still have no concerns driving my IS350 at all.
01-27-2010, 11:19 AM
#322
I thought this article was interesting.
Outsourcing?
http://www.financialpost.com/news-se...tml?id=2490307
Terry
Outsourcing?
http://www.financialpost.com/news-se...tml?id=2490307
Terry
01-27-2010, 11:25 AM
#323
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Nice find Terry.. here's the article. Hopefully the finger pointing will end and a real investigation will begin.
The halting of Toyota Motors Corp. sales and production on some of its most popular models across North America is the result of an outsourcing effort that produced faulty gas pedals that have proven a propensity to stick in certain isolated incidents.
While there were only five incidents reported in Canada, Toyota issued a directive late Tuesday to its dealers across North America to halt sales immediately on eight of its most popular brands. It will also idle six of its North American factories, including those in Woodstock and Cambridge, Ont.
At this point, the automaker does not know how long the sales freeze will continue, but has told dealers they expect production to be halted for at least two weeks.
The Japanese carmaker also said Wednesday it was weighing whether a recall would be necessary in Europe, as well.
At issue is the recent outsourcing of the company's accelerator pedals and pedal assembly to CTS Corporation, an Elkhart, Indiana-based parts marker, after demand for Toyota's vehicles outstripped the capacity of the part's original Japanese manufacturer, Denso Corp.
The CTS-produced pedals have demonstrated a propensity for sticking when exposed to condensation, those briefed on the nature of recall have said.
"The whole problem started with the outsourcing of the pedal and the pedal assembly," said Vito Polera, fleet manager at Toronto's Northwest Toyota dealership. "When [Denso] couldn't meet the demand, Toyota farmed out to CTS, which is the affected part."
CTS reportedly manufactured the part in question at its facility in Mississauga, Ont., according to the Associated Press.
Mr. Polera said all that is required of the recalled vehicles is to inspect whether the pedal is a CTS pedal, and if they are, they are being removed regardless of whether they are sticking, and replaced with Denso ones. "There are no more CTS pedals going in the cars," Mr. Polera said.
However, the shortage of Denso pedals persists, which is why Toyota is halting the production and sales of the affected models so that it can use the parts presently in its plants to replace the parts on the vehicles already on the road.
"They're being more proactive than reactive, which is a good sign," Mr. Polera said, adding, however, he is concerned about the lasting impact the recall will have on the brand and his dealership's sales this year. "It's not a positive, that's for sure. It will affect us," he added.
The sticking pedals have not caused any fatalities in Canada, but have potentially been linked to 19 fatalities in the United States.
Toyota's recall surrounding accelerator pedals has broadened in size and scope in recent days.
Last Thursday, it said it would add another 2.3 million vehicles to the recall, after already saying 4.2 million vehicles were being impacted by unintended acceleration relating to floor mats.
The vehicles in question include certain models of its RAV4, Matrix, and Avalon, which are produced in Canada, as well as its Camry, Highlander, Tundra, Sequoia, and Avalon, which are produced in the United States.
In Canada, 270,000 vehicles are impacted by the recall, but the lasting damage to Toyota's reputation for safety is incalculable at this point.
"This unprecedented automotive decision indicates how serious a safety problem this is," said Michelle Krebs, senior analyst at Edmunds.com, in an email.
"We've gone from floor mats to recalls for wear items to a full shutdown, and I can't help but think that the company's credibility is being called into question," she added.
Toyota is the biggest car company in the world one of the biggest car retailers in Canada, selling 205,115 vehicles in this country last year. Toyota also builds more cars in Canada and sells more Canadian-built cars here than any other manufacturer, or roughly 20,000 a month.
Shares in Toyota Motor Corp. fell nearly 8% in early morning trading on the New York Stock Exchange to $80.12 a piece as of 10:41 a.m. EST.
While there were only five incidents reported in Canada, Toyota issued a directive late Tuesday to its dealers across North America to halt sales immediately on eight of its most popular brands. It will also idle six of its North American factories, including those in Woodstock and Cambridge, Ont.
At this point, the automaker does not know how long the sales freeze will continue, but has told dealers they expect production to be halted for at least two weeks.
The Japanese carmaker also said Wednesday it was weighing whether a recall would be necessary in Europe, as well.
At issue is the recent outsourcing of the company's accelerator pedals and pedal assembly to CTS Corporation, an Elkhart, Indiana-based parts marker, after demand for Toyota's vehicles outstripped the capacity of the part's original Japanese manufacturer, Denso Corp.
The CTS-produced pedals have demonstrated a propensity for sticking when exposed to condensation, those briefed on the nature of recall have said.
"The whole problem started with the outsourcing of the pedal and the pedal assembly," said Vito Polera, fleet manager at Toronto's Northwest Toyota dealership. "When [Denso] couldn't meet the demand, Toyota farmed out to CTS, which is the affected part."
CTS reportedly manufactured the part in question at its facility in Mississauga, Ont., according to the Associated Press.
Mr. Polera said all that is required of the recalled vehicles is to inspect whether the pedal is a CTS pedal, and if they are, they are being removed regardless of whether they are sticking, and replaced with Denso ones. "There are no more CTS pedals going in the cars," Mr. Polera said.
However, the shortage of Denso pedals persists, which is why Toyota is halting the production and sales of the affected models so that it can use the parts presently in its plants to replace the parts on the vehicles already on the road.
"They're being more proactive than reactive, which is a good sign," Mr. Polera said, adding, however, he is concerned about the lasting impact the recall will have on the brand and his dealership's sales this year. "It's not a positive, that's for sure. It will affect us," he added.
The sticking pedals have not caused any fatalities in Canada, but have potentially been linked to 19 fatalities in the United States.
Toyota's recall surrounding accelerator pedals has broadened in size and scope in recent days.
Last Thursday, it said it would add another 2.3 million vehicles to the recall, after already saying 4.2 million vehicles were being impacted by unintended acceleration relating to floor mats.
The vehicles in question include certain models of its RAV4, Matrix, and Avalon, which are produced in Canada, as well as its Camry, Highlander, Tundra, Sequoia, and Avalon, which are produced in the United States.
In Canada, 270,000 vehicles are impacted by the recall, but the lasting damage to Toyota's reputation for safety is incalculable at this point.
"This unprecedented automotive decision indicates how serious a safety problem this is," said Michelle Krebs, senior analyst at Edmunds.com, in an email.
"We've gone from floor mats to recalls for wear items to a full shutdown, and I can't help but think that the company's credibility is being called into question," she added.
Toyota is the biggest car company in the world one of the biggest car retailers in Canada, selling 205,115 vehicles in this country last year. Toyota also builds more cars in Canada and sells more Canadian-built cars here than any other manufacturer, or roughly 20,000 a month.
Shares in Toyota Motor Corp. fell nearly 8% in early morning trading on the New York Stock Exchange to $80.12 a piece as of 10:41 a.m. EST.
01-27-2010, 02:59 PM
#327
Senior Moderator
There is still no evidence of any computer failures related to this issue. I will say that there is definitely something wrong beyond floor mats but it still affects a miniscule percentage of all the cars Toyota makes. All you jackals circling Toyota like hungry vultures makes me laugh. Its as if every car they build is some sort of death machine.
What the Avalon story proved was that its possible to regain control of one of these afflicted vehicles (and indeed drive it to the dealer). I still have no concerns driving my IS350 at all.
What the Avalon story proved was that its possible to regain control of one of these afflicted vehicles (and indeed drive it to the dealer). I still have no concerns driving my IS350 at all.
01-27-2010, 03:01 PM
#328
Someday, an RS6 Avant+
So these CTS pedals have been in Toyota vehicles since 2001? That is when (according to reports that have been posted) the spike in sudden acceleration events started. If so, then this seems plausible. But I'm not on that bandwagon just yet.
01-27-2010, 03:03 PM
#329
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
I don't think we should bandwagon on anything except for a thorough investigation starting with that Avalon.. & the hundreds of other vehicles where these unintended acceleration incidents have occurred.
01-27-2010, 03:18 PM
#330
Senior Moderator
Does anyone know if CTS manufactures similar components for other makes?
01-27-2010, 05:03 PM
#331
The sizzle in the Steak
01-27-2010, 05:29 PM
#332
Team Owner
As Toyota stated, this recall is different from and unrelated to the “sudden, unintended acceleration issue” which was the subject of the November 2009 Toyota recall. In the November recall, the pedals in Toyota models dated back to model year 2002. CTS became a pedal supplier in 2005.
01-27-2010, 06:10 PM
#334
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
I hope these Corporate Toyota fuckers die in a horrible fire.. They're sounding more & more like Phillip Morris.
01-27-2010, 07:24 PM
#337
Senior Moderator
I think its time for Honda dealers to make some money...
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/27/n...owners-rental/
01-27-2010, 08:40 PM
#339
01-27-2010, 10:43 PM
#341
Under construction
iTrader: (3)
anyone think the price of lexus cars will fall because of this?? i know they are not the ones with sticking pedals but still, people will probably be afraid to buy any toyota/toyota made product
01-27-2010, 11:06 PM
#342
Evil Mazda Driver
For those of you wondering what kind of potential this has to hurt Toyota need only take a gander at what happened to Audi. What Audi went through was a hoax. A TV show and its producer blew a small issue out of proportion in the search for higher ratings.
In 1986, Audi was cashing in on the wealth of the '80s and sold a little over 100,000 cars in the United States. And it was looking to shatter that number in '87. But in November of '86, '60 Minutes' ran a false story that included footage of an Audi 5000 accelerator pedal moving on its own. The pedal was, of course, rigged but it didn't matter. Audi was destroyed. By 1992, they were struggling to sell 12,000 cars in the US and for a while, considered leaving the market entirely. Audi still has not recovered completely from the '60 Minutes' scandal. In 2009, they sold 82,716 vehicles, well short of their 1986 figures which have yet to be matched.
The Audi problem was very specific; ALL of the instances involved short-stature female drivers who were backing up. And all of the cars involved had fewer than 1,000 miles on them. Many of the drivers who reported unintended acceleration while reversing had recently traded in their big American car for the Audi. Anybody who has driven an older American car knows how huge the brake pedal is. The pedals on the Audi were much smaller and oriented slightly to the left of where they are in American cars, leading them to step on the accelerator rather than the brake. One woman who crashed through the back wall of her garage told police that she was standing on the brake with all her might and that the car would not stop. When Audi examined the vehicle, they found the tip of the accelerator pedal was actually bent from the force she was exerting on it.
If some slight orientation of a pedal and a bogus news story could cripple a German car company's reputation for the next two decades, I believe this has the potential to shatter Toyota's sales in this country. Given enough time, it may very well tear their reputation to high heaven. From what I've noticed, Americans are VERY unforgiving when it comes to cars. Once you're dropped from grace, it's extremely difficult to put the shine back into your product. Toyota could save themselves by learning from what happened to Audi. But if their previous endeavors are any indication, they won't and their dealers and employees are the ones who will pay.
In 1986, Audi was cashing in on the wealth of the '80s and sold a little over 100,000 cars in the United States. And it was looking to shatter that number in '87. But in November of '86, '60 Minutes' ran a false story that included footage of an Audi 5000 accelerator pedal moving on its own. The pedal was, of course, rigged but it didn't matter. Audi was destroyed. By 1992, they were struggling to sell 12,000 cars in the US and for a while, considered leaving the market entirely. Audi still has not recovered completely from the '60 Minutes' scandal. In 2009, they sold 82,716 vehicles, well short of their 1986 figures which have yet to be matched.
The Audi problem was very specific; ALL of the instances involved short-stature female drivers who were backing up. And all of the cars involved had fewer than 1,000 miles on them. Many of the drivers who reported unintended acceleration while reversing had recently traded in their big American car for the Audi. Anybody who has driven an older American car knows how huge the brake pedal is. The pedals on the Audi were much smaller and oriented slightly to the left of where they are in American cars, leading them to step on the accelerator rather than the brake. One woman who crashed through the back wall of her garage told police that she was standing on the brake with all her might and that the car would not stop. When Audi examined the vehicle, they found the tip of the accelerator pedal was actually bent from the force she was exerting on it.
If some slight orientation of a pedal and a bogus news story could cripple a German car company's reputation for the next two decades, I believe this has the potential to shatter Toyota's sales in this country. Given enough time, it may very well tear their reputation to high heaven. From what I've noticed, Americans are VERY unforgiving when it comes to cars. Once you're dropped from grace, it's extremely difficult to put the shine back into your product. Toyota could save themselves by learning from what happened to Audi. But if their previous endeavors are any indication, they won't and their dealers and employees are the ones who will pay.
Last edited by PortlandRL; 01-27-2010 at 11:08 PM.
01-28-2010, 12:02 AM
#343
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
I think its time for Honda dealers to make some money...
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/01/27/n...owners-rental/
Damn that's cold..
It's truly unfair that Toyota corporate chose the path that they did. I'm sure they'll spend millions spinning this story.. maybe even file suit against the pedal assembly mfg.
The truth is evident, there was a real problem and they banked on paying off the unfortunate families because their accountants & lawyers said it would be cheaper.. Their not the first car company to do this and sadly they'll probably won't be the last. I hope the victims families get the truth and not some ridiculous concocted story that tries to mash pieces of a puzzle together that never fit to begin with.
Personally, if they acted in due diligence to begin with.. I'd have no problem with the company. I work in reliability and I understand that shit happens even after stringent design & QA practices.. but the way they piss on the victims & their families and continue to piss on them is bs. I feel bad for all the mfg workers that will be effected by this.. most of whom are here in the U.S. but the company reaps what they sow.
Hopefully in this modern day, it changes how an investigation is performed & how regulatory agencies respond.. hopefully towards the public's safety, not market safety.
01-28-2010, 03:53 AM
#345
Someday, an RS6 Avant+
For those of you wondering what kind of potential this has to hurt Toyota need only take a gander at what happened to Audi. What Audi went through was a hoax. A TV show and its producer blew a small issue out of proportion in the search for higher ratings.
In 1986, Audi was cashing in on the wealth of the '80s and sold a little over 100,000 cars in the United States. And it was looking to shatter that number in '87. But in November of '86, '60 Minutes' ran a false story that included footage of an Audi 5000 accelerator pedal moving on its own. The pedal was, of course, rigged but it didn't matter. Audi was destroyed. By 1992, they were struggling to sell 12,000 cars in the US and for a while, considered leaving the market entirely. Audi still has not recovered completely from the '60 Minutes' scandal. In 2009, they sold 82,716 vehicles, well short of their 1986 figures which have yet to be matched.
The Audi problem was very specific; ALL of the instances involved short-stature female drivers who were backing up. And all of the cars involved had fewer than 1,000 miles on them. Many of the drivers who reported unintended acceleration while reversing had recently traded in their big American car for the Audi. Anybody who has driven an older American car knows how huge the brake pedal is. The pedals on the Audi were much smaller and oriented slightly to the left of where they are in American cars, leading them to step on the accelerator rather than the brake. One woman who crashed through the back wall of her garage told police that she was standing on the brake with all her might and that the car would not stop. When Audi examined the vehicle, they found the tip of the accelerator pedal was actually bent from the force she was exerting on it.
If some slight orientation of a pedal and a bogus news story could cripple a German car company's reputation for the next two decades, I believe this has the potential to shatter Toyota's sales in this country. Given enough time, it may very well tear their reputation to high heaven. From what I've noticed, Americans are VERY unforgiving when it comes to cars. Once you're dropped from grace, it's extremely difficult to put the shine back into your product. Toyota could save themselves by learning from what happened to Audi. But if their previous endeavors are any indication, they won't and their dealers and employees are the ones who will pay.
In 1986, Audi was cashing in on the wealth of the '80s and sold a little over 100,000 cars in the United States. And it was looking to shatter that number in '87. But in November of '86, '60 Minutes' ran a false story that included footage of an Audi 5000 accelerator pedal moving on its own. The pedal was, of course, rigged but it didn't matter. Audi was destroyed. By 1992, they were struggling to sell 12,000 cars in the US and for a while, considered leaving the market entirely. Audi still has not recovered completely from the '60 Minutes' scandal. In 2009, they sold 82,716 vehicles, well short of their 1986 figures which have yet to be matched.
The Audi problem was very specific; ALL of the instances involved short-stature female drivers who were backing up. And all of the cars involved had fewer than 1,000 miles on them. Many of the drivers who reported unintended acceleration while reversing had recently traded in their big American car for the Audi. Anybody who has driven an older American car knows how huge the brake pedal is. The pedals on the Audi were much smaller and oriented slightly to the left of where they are in American cars, leading them to step on the accelerator rather than the brake. One woman who crashed through the back wall of her garage told police that she was standing on the brake with all her might and that the car would not stop. When Audi examined the vehicle, they found the tip of the accelerator pedal was actually bent from the force she was exerting on it.
If some slight orientation of a pedal and a bogus news story could cripple a German car company's reputation for the next two decades, I believe this has the potential to shatter Toyota's sales in this country. Given enough time, it may very well tear their reputation to high heaven. From what I've noticed, Americans are VERY unforgiving when it comes to cars. Once you're dropped from grace, it's extremely difficult to put the shine back into your product. Toyota could save themselves by learning from what happened to Audi. But if their previous endeavors are any indication, they won't and their dealers and employees are the ones who will pay.
When I lived in Germany, I owned an Audi 5000S Avant, and a Chrysler LHS. Big difference in their pedal set up. (FTR, the Audi was a "meant for the US model, as the German equivalent was the 100 series) The Audi had a very small brake pedal and an even smaller gas pedal. I remember that story when I bought the car, and noticed how someone coud press down on both pedals. Very easy to do.
And the sign, well, was it at a Chevy dealer?
01-28-2010, 07:42 AM
#347
Punk Rocker
Some people here seem as though they are rooting for Toyota to fail. I wonder if the reactions would be the same if this was BMW, Mercedes, or Porsche???
Remember that Toyota employs hundreds of thousands of Americans and in this time of economic strife it seems in poor taste for some of you to be actively hoping that they go under....
Remember that Toyota employs hundreds of thousands of Americans and in this time of economic strife it seems in poor taste for some of you to be actively hoping that they go under....
01-28-2010, 07:57 AM
#348
Senior Moderator
For those of you wondering what kind of potential this has to hurt Toyota need only take a gander at what happened to Audi. What Audi went through was a hoax. A TV show and its producer blew a small issue out of proportion in the search for higher ratings.
In 1986, Audi was cashing in on the wealth of the '80s and sold a little over 100,000 cars in the United States. And it was looking to shatter that number in '87. But in November of '86, '60 Minutes' ran a false story that included footage of an Audi 5000 accelerator pedal moving on its own. The pedal was, of course, rigged but it didn't matter. Audi was destroyed. By 1992, they were struggling to sell 12,000 cars in the US and for a while, considered leaving the market entirely. Audi still has not recovered completely from the '60 Minutes' scandal. In 2009, they sold 82,716 vehicles, well short of their 1986 figures which have yet to be matched.
The Audi problem was very specific; ALL of the instances involved short-stature female drivers who were backing up. And all of the cars involved had fewer than 1,000 miles on them. Many of the drivers who reported unintended acceleration while reversing had recently traded in their big American car for the Audi. Anybody who has driven an older American car knows how huge the brake pedal is. The pedals on the Audi were much smaller and oriented slightly to the left of where they are in American cars, leading them to step on the accelerator rather than the brake. One woman who crashed through the back wall of her garage told police that she was standing on the brake with all her might and that the car would not stop. When Audi examined the vehicle, they found the tip of the accelerator pedal was actually bent from the force she was exerting on it.
If some slight orientation of a pedal and a bogus news story could cripple a German car company's reputation for the next two decades, I believe this has the potential to shatter Toyota's sales in this country. Given enough time, it may very well tear their reputation to high heaven. From what I've noticed, Americans are VERY unforgiving when it comes to cars. Once you're dropped from grace, it's extremely difficult to put the shine back into your product. Toyota could save themselves by learning from what happened to Audi. But if their previous endeavors are any indication, they won't and their dealers and employees are the ones who will pay.
In 1986, Audi was cashing in on the wealth of the '80s and sold a little over 100,000 cars in the United States. And it was looking to shatter that number in '87. But in November of '86, '60 Minutes' ran a false story that included footage of an Audi 5000 accelerator pedal moving on its own. The pedal was, of course, rigged but it didn't matter. Audi was destroyed. By 1992, they were struggling to sell 12,000 cars in the US and for a while, considered leaving the market entirely. Audi still has not recovered completely from the '60 Minutes' scandal. In 2009, they sold 82,716 vehicles, well short of their 1986 figures which have yet to be matched.
The Audi problem was very specific; ALL of the instances involved short-stature female drivers who were backing up. And all of the cars involved had fewer than 1,000 miles on them. Many of the drivers who reported unintended acceleration while reversing had recently traded in their big American car for the Audi. Anybody who has driven an older American car knows how huge the brake pedal is. The pedals on the Audi were much smaller and oriented slightly to the left of where they are in American cars, leading them to step on the accelerator rather than the brake. One woman who crashed through the back wall of her garage told police that she was standing on the brake with all her might and that the car would not stop. When Audi examined the vehicle, they found the tip of the accelerator pedal was actually bent from the force she was exerting on it.
If some slight orientation of a pedal and a bogus news story could cripple a German car company's reputation for the next two decades, I believe this has the potential to shatter Toyota's sales in this country. Given enough time, it may very well tear their reputation to high heaven. From what I've noticed, Americans are VERY unforgiving when it comes to cars. Once you're dropped from grace, it's extremely difficult to put the shine back into your product. Toyota could save themselves by learning from what happened to Audi. But if their previous endeavors are any indication, they won't and their dealers and employees are the ones who will pay.
01-28-2010, 08:52 AM
#349
Safety Car
Some people here seem as though they are rooting for Toyota to fail. I wonder if the reactions would be the same if this was BMW, Mercedes, or Porsche???
Remember that Toyota employs hundreds of thousands of Americans and in this time of economic strife it seems in poor taste for some of you to be actively hoping that they go under....
Remember that Toyota employs hundreds of thousands of Americans and in this time of economic strife it seems in poor taste for some of you to be actively hoping that they go under....
They tried to cover up the transmission issues they had on the Camry and ES350 cars blowing up, then the Train sounding Engine problems on some of the 3.5L cars. The list continues to many cars in the past they have just tried to cover up stuff. So now they are in deep crap as this problem is bringing them out of hiding and showing how they have tried to cover it up.
01-28-2010, 09:10 AM
#350
Team Owner
Watch the vid here. http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Runawa...ory?id=9618735
The guy claims the pedal was never stuck and that Toyota replaced the pedal and some electronics.
Why does he still have that car? He should ditch it.
The guy claims the pedal was never stuck and that Toyota replaced the pedal and some electronics.
Why does he still have that car? He should ditch it.
01-28-2010, 10:03 AM
#351
Some people here seem as though they are rooting for Toyota to fail. I wonder if the reactions would be the same if this was BMW, Mercedes, or Porsche???
Remember that Toyota employs hundreds of thousands of Americans and in this time of economic strife it seems in poor taste for some of you to be actively hoping that they go under....
Remember that Toyota employs hundreds of thousands of Americans and in this time of economic strife it seems in poor taste for some of you to be actively hoping that they go under....
I personally stated that I hoped this wouldn't impact emploument being production has been halted.
what I believe people are trying to get across here is that these coverups should be flat out reported on and Toyota fined for doing something wrong.
failing a s whole would not benefit anyone as less competition among car makers , not to mention jobs lost would hurt as as a whole.
01-28-2010, 10:05 AM
#352
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Some people here seem as though they are rooting for Toyota to fail. I wonder if the reactions would be the same if this was BMW, Mercedes, or Porsche???
Remember that Toyota employs hundreds of thousands of Americans and in this time of economic strife it seems in poor taste for some of you to be actively hoping that they go under....
Remember that Toyota employs hundreds of thousands of Americans and in this time of economic strife it seems in poor taste for some of you to be actively hoping that they go under....
01-28-2010, 12:16 PM
#354
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
01-28-2010, 01:42 PM
#355
Evil Mazda Driver
Some people here seem as though they are rooting for Toyota to fail. I wonder if the reactions would be the same if this was BMW, Mercedes, or Porsche???
Remember that Toyota employs hundreds of thousands of Americans and in this time of economic strife it seems in poor taste for some of you to be actively hoping that they go under....
Remember that Toyota employs hundreds of thousands of Americans and in this time of economic strife it seems in poor taste for some of you to be actively hoping that they go under....
01-28-2010, 02:35 PM
#356
My only car is a Bus
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Toyota sold 7.81 million cars in 2009. Shit happens. Who knows if it's a design flaw, user error, a combination of both. This wouldn't deter me from buying a Toyota were I interested in their vehicles.
I'm sure we'll see some people saying their gas pedals got "stuck" then suing the company for $100 million or some crap like that.
I'm sure we'll see some people saying their gas pedals got "stuck" then suing the company for $100 million or some crap like that.
01-28-2010, 02:38 PM
#357
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Toyota sold 7.81 million cars in 2009. Shit happens. Who knows if it's a design flaw, user error, a combination of both. This wouldn't deter me from buying a Toyota were I interested in their vehicles.
I'm sure we'll see some people saying their gas pedals got "stuck" then suing the company for $100 million or some crap like that.
I'm sure we'll see some people saying their gas pedals got "stuck" then suing the company for $100 million or some crap like that.
01-28-2010, 02:50 PM
#358
Someday, an RS6 Avant+
I feel they have covered this problem up since day one, and people have died as a result.
The fact that Honda, Toyota, Hyndai, Mercedes, BMW, etc... build cars in the US and employ thousands of people is excellent. But do people have to be sacrificed so Toyota can grow their profit margin? If you agree that Toyota has been doing the right thing Eric, then you really are a fanboy.
Hell, if you read other posts I put up on here, I absolutely love the Toyota Crown (can't buy them in the US)...... But this coverup makes me think about the company as a whole, their culture. But I still love the car.....
01-28-2010, 06:15 PM
#359
My only car is a Bus
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Republik of Kalifornia
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No it wouldn't. I seriously doubt that a floormat would be properly placed one moment and the next would turn a car into a death trap.
Shift into neutral, pull the emergency brake, or turn off the ignition, and check your floormats.
And why do people always say "cover-up" anyhow? 7.81 million cars produced worldwide in 2009 (and tens of millions covered by this "recall") means it's not going to be easy to know if it is a design flaw, owner stupidity, or poor maintenance or some combination of all three.
People with axes to grind or pet peeves about corporations, cars, specific car companies, or consumer "rights" are probably more responsible for this than Toyota is. After all, the Corvair was not "unsafe at any speed" it handled like all rear engine cars do but Nader made his fortune going after it so I think you need to look at the people or groups who are going to benefit from this more than anything else. That sign at the top of the page is a perfect example.
Shift into neutral, pull the emergency brake, or turn off the ignition, and check your floormats.
And why do people always say "cover-up" anyhow? 7.81 million cars produced worldwide in 2009 (and tens of millions covered by this "recall") means it's not going to be easy to know if it is a design flaw, owner stupidity, or poor maintenance or some combination of all three.
People with axes to grind or pet peeves about corporations, cars, specific car companies, or consumer "rights" are probably more responsible for this than Toyota is. After all, the Corvair was not "unsafe at any speed" it handled like all rear engine cars do but Nader made his fortune going after it so I think you need to look at the people or groups who are going to benefit from this more than anything else. That sign at the top of the page is a perfect example.
Last edited by CL6; 01-28-2010 at 06:20 PM.
01-28-2010, 06:57 PM
#360
Senior Moderator
No it wouldn't. I seriously doubt that a floormat would be properly placed one moment and the next would turn a car into a death trap.
Shift into neutral, pull the emergency brake, or turn off the ignition, and check your floormats.
And why do people always say "cover-up" anyhow? 7.81 million cars produced worldwide in 2009 (and tens of millions covered by this "recall") means it's not going to be easy to know if it is a design flaw, owner stupidity, or poor maintenance or some combination of all three.
People with axes to grind or pet peeves about corporations, cars, specific car companies, or consumer "rights" are probably more responsible for this than Toyota is. After all, the Corvair was not "unsafe at any speed" it handled like all rear engine cars do but Nader made his fortune going after it so I think you need to look at the people or groups who are going to benefit from this more than anything else. That sign at the top of the page is a perfect example.
Shift into neutral, pull the emergency brake, or turn off the ignition, and check your floormats.
And why do people always say "cover-up" anyhow? 7.81 million cars produced worldwide in 2009 (and tens of millions covered by this "recall") means it's not going to be easy to know if it is a design flaw, owner stupidity, or poor maintenance or some combination of all three.
People with axes to grind or pet peeves about corporations, cars, specific car companies, or consumer "rights" are probably more responsible for this than Toyota is. After all, the Corvair was not "unsafe at any speed" it handled like all rear engine cars do but Nader made his fortune going after it so I think you need to look at the people or groups who are going to benefit from this more than anything else. That sign at the top of the page is a perfect example.