Stuck accelerator kills 4 in Santee *Recall - Page 2*
#241
Senior Moderator
For your sake i hope you are right. Me personally i wouldnt take the chance.
#242
2011 BMW 335i
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+1 I used to always say Lexus would be my next vehicle but not no more. Also my parents went to go test drive the new Venza V6 and LOVED it, they were ready to buy it until I mentioned whole thing going on with Toyota and the unintended acceleration, whether it is the ECU or the floormats or whatever, the point is the CARS ARE DANGEROUS. They went over to Honda and bought a new Pilot instead
#243
The Third Ball
Join Date: Sep 2002
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+1 I used to always say Lexus would be my next vehicle but not no more. Also my parents went to go test drive the new Venza V6 and LOVED it, they were ready to buy it until I mentioned whole thing going on with Toyota and the unintended acceleration, whether it is the ECU or the floormats or whatever, the point is the CARS ARE DANGEROUS. They went over to Honda and bought a new Pilot instead
#245
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
I wont buy another car from them due to Toyota corporate trying to shadow the whole issue. I was so sick of ~4 weeks of news on that bs recall they issued. I've owned 7 toyota products & 4 still in the family including a Tundra & RX300, there won't be an 8th.
#247
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
#248
+1 I used to always say Lexus would be my next vehicle but not no more. Also my parents went to go test drive the new Venza V6 and LOVED it, they were ready to buy it until I mentioned whole thing going on with Toyota and the unintended acceleration, whether it is the ECU or the floormats or whatever, the point is the CARS ARE DANGEROUS. They went over to Honda and bought a new Pilot instead
#249
MiataNut.. you make a lot of sense. You must know a lot about cars whereas all of us don't. I mean if a 20 yr vet of the CHP with countless number of hours in driving school & years behind the wheel in high risk situations can't do it.. how could a bunch of guys who have been working on their cars for years as well have any chance. You should open up a driving school teaching this technique to the CHP & newbs like us. How did it go again? so confusing..
#250
Evil Mazda Driver
Get a grip. The cars are not dangerous. Fear mongering drama queens are dangerous, though - just ask Audi. It's so simple....if your Toyota product goes nuts on you because of a floormat, you reach down and yank the floormat back an inch or so....if it goes nuts on you because of the ECU (and it won't, but just for the sake of argument), you shift it into neutral. Sheesh
#251
#252
Evil Mazda Driver
Not sure why they would do that...but if you read about the guy who took an ES350 out and tried it, the car would not shift into neutral under wide open throttle. I posted that story on the previous page, probably halfway down.
#253
Hmm....I work about a mile from a Lexus dealer, and maybe another mile from a major highway....I think I need to try this myself....
#255
Evil Mazda Driver
More skeletons are falling out of the closet and it looks like Toyota's house of cards is starting to tremble. Cliffs on this long article: There is no problem but if your car does take off on you, we'll pay you tons of money to keep your mouth shut.
They are also keeping black box data from owners....anybody who owns a car with a black box will read in the manual that the data belongs to the OWNER only, nobody else.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...tory?track=rss
They are also keeping black box data from owners....anybody who owns a car with a black box will read in the manual that the data belongs to the OWNER only, nobody else.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...tory?track=rss
During a routine test on its Sienna minivan in April 2003, Toyota Motor Corp. engineers discovered that a plastic panel could come loose and cause the gas pedal to stick, potentially making the vehicle accelerate out of control.
The automaker redesigned the part and by that June every 2004 model year Sienna off the assembly line came with the new panel. Toyota did not notify tens of thousands of people who had already bought vans with the old panel, however.
It wasn't until U.S. safety officials opened an investigation last year that Toyota acknowledged in a letter to regulators that the part could come loose and "lead to unwanted or sudden acceleration."
In January, nearly six years after discovering the potential hazard, the automaker recalled 26,501 vans made with the old panel.
In a statement to The Times, Toyota said that there was no defect in the Sienna and that "a safety recall was not deemed necessary" when it discovered the problem in 2003. The company called the replacement part "an additional safety measure."
A peerless reputation for quality and safety has helped Toyota become the world's largest automaker. But even as its sales have soared, the company has delayed recalls, kept a tight lid on disclosure of potential problems and attempted to blame human error in cases where owners claimed vehicle defects.
The automaker's handling of safety issues has come under scrutiny in recent months because of incidents of sudden acceleration in Toyota and Lexus vehicles, which The Times has reported were involved in accidents causing 19 fatalities since 2001, more deaths from that problem than all other automakers combined.
After Toyota this fall announced its biggest recall to address the sudden-acceleration problem, it insisted publicly that no defect existed. That drew a rare public rebuke from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, which chastised the automaker for making "inaccurate and misleading statements."
In the wake of Toyota's announcement of the massive recall, The Times examined some of the ways the automaker has dealt with safety problems in recent years and found that:
* The automaker knew of a dangerous steering defect in vehicles including the 4Runner sport utility vehicle for years before issuing a recall in Japan in 2004. But it told regulators no recall was necessary in the U.S., despite having received dozens of complaints from drivers. Toyota said a subsequent investigation led it to order a U.S. recall in 2005.
* Toyota has paid cash settlements to people who say their vehicles have raced out of control, sometimes causing serious accidents, according to consumers and their attorneys. Other motorists who complained of acceleration problems with their vehicles have received buybacks under lemon laws.
* Although the sudden acceleration issue erupted publicly only in recent months, it has been festering for nearly a decade. A computerized search of NHTSA records by The Times has found Toyota issued eight previous recalls related to unintended acceleration since 2000, more than any other automaker.
* A former Toyota lawyer who handled safety litigation has sued the automaker, accusing it of engaging in a "calculated conspiracy to prevent the disclosure of damaging evidence" as part of a scheme to "prevent evidence of its vehicles' structural shortcomings from becoming known" to plaintiffs lawyers, courts, NHTSA and the public.
As a result, plaintiffs attorneys are considering reopening dozens of product-liability suits against the automaker.
Toyota has called the allegations of the attorney, Dimitrios Biller, "both misleading and inaccurate" and noted that he is also suing another former employer. The company said it had "acted appropriately in product liability cases and in all reporting to federal safety regulators."
In a written statement to The Times, Toyota said that it strove to keep government officials and consumers informed about potential safety problems with its vehicles, which it says are tested to meet or exceed federal standards.
"Toyota has absolutely not minimized public awareness of any defect or issue with respect to its vehicles," the company said.
Currently, Toyota is a defendant in at least 10 lawsuits alleging unintended acceleration that caused five fatalities and four injuries. Two of those suits are seeking class-action status.
But few, if any, sudden-acceleration cases ever make it to trial, according to attorneys who handle such cases.
After a 2007 crash of a Camry that accelerated out of control for 20 miles before killing the driver of another car in San Jose, Toyota was sued by members of the victim's family. Their attorney, Louis Franecke, said the automaker "didn't want to go to trial," and paid them a seven-figure sum in exchange for dropping the case and signing a non-disclosure form.
In an interview, Guadalupe Gomez, the driver of the runaway Camry, said he also signed a confidentiality agreement and received a settlement from Toyota. He was initially arrested on suspicion of manslaughter for causing the crash, but charges were never filed.
By settling, Toyota has managed to keep potentially damaging information out of the public eye, said Raymond Paul Johnson, a Los Angeles attorney who said he had settled four sudden-acceleration cases with the automaker.
"It's just a matter of risk control for them," Johnson said.
Toyota said that although it does not comment on individual cases, it "has resolved and will continue to resolve matters with litigants through confidential settlement when it is in both parties' interests to do so."
The majority of unintended acceleration incidents don't end up in accidents. But even after minor incidents, some consumers have obtained deals under which their cars were repurchased on favorable terms.
Tim Marks, a small businessman in Camden, Ark., parked his daughter's 2006 Lexus IS 250 in front of the dealership last year and said his family would never drive it again after experiencing four sudden-acceleration events.
"They told my daughter she was texting while driving and wasn't paying attention," Marks recalled. "She is a 95-pound, little itty-bitty thing, but she was fixing to twist off on that man."
The vehicle was bought back and the title branded as a lemon, according to vehicle registration records. It was later registered in Florida, suggesting that the dealer resold it.
Much the same thing happened to Joan Marschall, a Visalia resident whose 2003 Camry accelerated on its own three times before she complained.
"I took it to the dealer and said I wouldn't drive it again," Marschall recalled. "I said I don't care if you tell me the computer says nothing happened. I know it did."
Marschall received a lemon buyback too. Registration records show the car was transferred to a new owner in Southern California.
Toyota said it had no policy to repurchase vehicles from customers complaining about sudden acceleration, though its dealers may act on their own to "preserve goodwill."
Some motorists who have confronted safety issues said the automaker has hidden information from them.
In January, Jeffrey Pepski, a financial consultant in suburban Minneapolis, took his 2007 Lexus ES 350 to the dealer after it accelerated out of control on a Twin Cities freeway, reaching 80 miles per hour.
Toyota sent an expert to examine the car Feb. 3 and download electronic data stored on the vehicle's computers. When Pepski asked for a copy of the data, he was refused.
"They said it was proprietary," Pepski recalled.
He filed a defect petition with NHTSA, and the dealer allowed Pepski to trade in the sedan for a sport utility vehicle. The Lexus ES was not branded a lemon and was resold in Minnesota, records show.
How Toyota handles requests like Pepski's has frustrated investigators and vehicle owners who want to get information contained on computers in their vehicles.
Nearly all new cars today contain an event data recorder, often called a black box, that can record several seconds of key information when accidents occur or in other circumstances.
According to Toyota, its black boxes can capture vehicle speed, engine speed, brake pedal application, accelerator pedal position and seat belt usage, among other things. That data, experts say, could be crucial to investigating causes of sudden acceleration.
Unlike manufacturers such as General Motors Co. and Ford Motor Co., Toyota's data recorders are extremely difficult for non-Toyota personnel to read, said W.R. "Rusty" Haight, a black-box expert who owns a San Diego collision investigation company.
Toyota says it has only one device in the U.S. that can read the data. An operating manual for the device, a copy of which was reviewed by The Times, indicates that it takes two passwords to operate.
On its website, Toyota says that it "will not honor EDR readout requests from private individuals or their attorneys," because its device is a prototype.
On some safety issues, Toyota has little choice but to go public.
Sudden acceleration didn't become a national issue for the automaker until this fall, when it announced its largest recall shortly after a 2009 Lexus ES accelerated out of control and crashed in San Diego County, killing an off-duty California Highway Patrol officer along with his wife, daughter and brother-in-law.
In a 5:30 a.m. conference call the day before Thanksgiving, Toyota detailed remedies to prevent acceleration problems it has blamed on gas pedals trapped by floor mats. Toyota will replace or modify pedals, replace floor mats, modify floor well padding and add new safety software to seven models, representing 4.26 million cars and trucks.
The campaign follows eight recalls in the U.S. over the last decade to fix problems that in the automaker's own words could cause sudden acceleration or faulty throttle system operation, Times research shows.
Two years ago, a NHTSA investigation found that the gas pedal in Camry and Lexus ES sedans could be trapped by rubber all-weather floor mats -- the same problem being addressed in the current recall. Toyota responded by recalling 55,000 of the vehicles, but only enlarged a warning label on the underside of the mat and on its packaging.
In 2005, Toyota recalled 3,567 Lexus IS 250 sedans because the gas pedal had a propensity to stick on a floor pad. In 2006, it recalled 367,594 Highlander and Lexus RX SUVs after receiving complaints that an interior cover could interfere with the accelerator pedal, keeping it depressed.
All those followed a 2003 recall in Canada of 408 Celicas, also for floor mat interference with the accelerator pedal.
In the ongoing Sienna recall, Toyota is replacing a hard-plastic trim panel over the center console. In its statement to The Times, the automaker said that pedal entrapment could only be caused in the event of a missing attachment clip, which might not be replaced after service work.
Toyota said it issued the recall voluntarily after a single complaint to NHTSA prompted an investigation by the agency. "In response to Toyota's voluntary campaign, regulators closed the investigation," the company said.
NHTSA officials did not respond to a written question about the recall and the agency's oversight of the matter.
The Sienna incident wasn't the only time that Toyota issued a recall long after discovering a problem.
In 1994, NHTSA slapped Toyota with a $250,000 fine, at the time the agency's second-largest, for providing misleading information about a fuel leak in Land Cruisers and waiting two years to undertake a recall to fix the problem. Toyota acknowledged that it failed to conduct a timely recall but denied withholding information from the agency.
A decade later, Toyota recalled about 330,000 vehicles in Japan after a 2004 crash there -- caused by a broken steering linkage -- seriously injured five people. The vehicle in the accident, a Hilux Surf, was sold in the U.S. as the 4Runner. Other truck models sold here, including the Toyota 4x4 and T100 pickups, also used the same linkage, a steering relay rod.
Despite that, the company told NHTSA in an October 2004 letter that it would not conduct a U.S. recall because it had not received information here indicating a problem with the part.
Documents entered in four lawsuits filed in Los Angeles this year, however, show that Toyota had received numerous consumer complaints dating from 2000 and had replaced dozens of the parts under warranty. The documents also show that Japanese police, in an investigation of the defect, said that Toyota employees had known about the problem since 1992 and should have initiated a recall immediately.
In September 2005, Toyota recalled nearly 1 million vehicles in the U.S. to replace the part, its second-largest campaign.
It came too late for Zackary Audulewicz of Ila, Ga., relatives said. The 20-year-old was driving his Toyota 4x4 to work in August 2003 when the pickup lost control. A witness said she heard a pop and saw a spark just before the pickup careened off the road, flipped into the air and rolled on its roof. Audulewicz was killed instantly.
"I feel like they knew about the problem long before the recall," said Don Audulewicz, Zackary's father and one of the plaintiffs in the suits. "I can't understand why whoever was making decisions at Toyota would do that."
Toyota declined to discuss the case, citing its policy not to comment on pending litigation. In a written statement, Toyota explained that its own investigation of the defective steering component part led it to broaden the recall to include the T100 truck.
On several occasions in the last decade, Toyota has been admonished by judges for failing to provide evidence. In 2000, for example, a Missouri state judge sanctioned it for failing to disclose results of five rear-impact tests of Corollas "despite numerous discovery requests." He ordered a new trial.
In 2007, California's Court of Appeal found that "Toyota had intentionally violated two orders compelling discovery" of stability test results in a case involving a Toyota-made forklift that tipped over and killed a worker. The court slapped Toyota with a $138,984.33 sanction and ordered a new trial. Toyota, which denied wrongdoing, ultimately settled the case.
E. Todd Tracy, a Texas attorney with 22 years of experience litigating against automakers, believes that Toyota's issues with legal discovery run far deeper than a few sanctions.
Over the last three months, he has moved to reopen 17 lawsuits against the automaker related to vehicle rollovers because he now believes Toyota routinely hid information in those cases.
His argument rests on four boxes of documents submitted by Biller, the former Toyota attorney. The contents have not yet been revealed, but Tracy believes they prove that Toyota hid crucial information about rollovers in those lawsuits.
"This is clearly information that Toyota does not want the public to see," Tracy said. "For years, they were the gold standard, but right now they have more problems than they know what to do with."
The automaker redesigned the part and by that June every 2004 model year Sienna off the assembly line came with the new panel. Toyota did not notify tens of thousands of people who had already bought vans with the old panel, however.
It wasn't until U.S. safety officials opened an investigation last year that Toyota acknowledged in a letter to regulators that the part could come loose and "lead to unwanted or sudden acceleration."
In January, nearly six years after discovering the potential hazard, the automaker recalled 26,501 vans made with the old panel.
In a statement to The Times, Toyota said that there was no defect in the Sienna and that "a safety recall was not deemed necessary" when it discovered the problem in 2003. The company called the replacement part "an additional safety measure."
A peerless reputation for quality and safety has helped Toyota become the world's largest automaker. But even as its sales have soared, the company has delayed recalls, kept a tight lid on disclosure of potential problems and attempted to blame human error in cases where owners claimed vehicle defects.
The automaker's handling of safety issues has come under scrutiny in recent months because of incidents of sudden acceleration in Toyota and Lexus vehicles, which The Times has reported were involved in accidents causing 19 fatalities since 2001, more deaths from that problem than all other automakers combined.
After Toyota this fall announced its biggest recall to address the sudden-acceleration problem, it insisted publicly that no defect existed. That drew a rare public rebuke from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, which chastised the automaker for making "inaccurate and misleading statements."
In the wake of Toyota's announcement of the massive recall, The Times examined some of the ways the automaker has dealt with safety problems in recent years and found that:
* The automaker knew of a dangerous steering defect in vehicles including the 4Runner sport utility vehicle for years before issuing a recall in Japan in 2004. But it told regulators no recall was necessary in the U.S., despite having received dozens of complaints from drivers. Toyota said a subsequent investigation led it to order a U.S. recall in 2005.
* Toyota has paid cash settlements to people who say their vehicles have raced out of control, sometimes causing serious accidents, according to consumers and their attorneys. Other motorists who complained of acceleration problems with their vehicles have received buybacks under lemon laws.
* Although the sudden acceleration issue erupted publicly only in recent months, it has been festering for nearly a decade. A computerized search of NHTSA records by The Times has found Toyota issued eight previous recalls related to unintended acceleration since 2000, more than any other automaker.
* A former Toyota lawyer who handled safety litigation has sued the automaker, accusing it of engaging in a "calculated conspiracy to prevent the disclosure of damaging evidence" as part of a scheme to "prevent evidence of its vehicles' structural shortcomings from becoming known" to plaintiffs lawyers, courts, NHTSA and the public.
As a result, plaintiffs attorneys are considering reopening dozens of product-liability suits against the automaker.
Toyota has called the allegations of the attorney, Dimitrios Biller, "both misleading and inaccurate" and noted that he is also suing another former employer. The company said it had "acted appropriately in product liability cases and in all reporting to federal safety regulators."
In a written statement to The Times, Toyota said that it strove to keep government officials and consumers informed about potential safety problems with its vehicles, which it says are tested to meet or exceed federal standards.
"Toyota has absolutely not minimized public awareness of any defect or issue with respect to its vehicles," the company said.
Currently, Toyota is a defendant in at least 10 lawsuits alleging unintended acceleration that caused five fatalities and four injuries. Two of those suits are seeking class-action status.
But few, if any, sudden-acceleration cases ever make it to trial, according to attorneys who handle such cases.
After a 2007 crash of a Camry that accelerated out of control for 20 miles before killing the driver of another car in San Jose, Toyota was sued by members of the victim's family. Their attorney, Louis Franecke, said the automaker "didn't want to go to trial," and paid them a seven-figure sum in exchange for dropping the case and signing a non-disclosure form.
In an interview, Guadalupe Gomez, the driver of the runaway Camry, said he also signed a confidentiality agreement and received a settlement from Toyota. He was initially arrested on suspicion of manslaughter for causing the crash, but charges were never filed.
By settling, Toyota has managed to keep potentially damaging information out of the public eye, said Raymond Paul Johnson, a Los Angeles attorney who said he had settled four sudden-acceleration cases with the automaker.
"It's just a matter of risk control for them," Johnson said.
Toyota said that although it does not comment on individual cases, it "has resolved and will continue to resolve matters with litigants through confidential settlement when it is in both parties' interests to do so."
The majority of unintended acceleration incidents don't end up in accidents. But even after minor incidents, some consumers have obtained deals under which their cars were repurchased on favorable terms.
Tim Marks, a small businessman in Camden, Ark., parked his daughter's 2006 Lexus IS 250 in front of the dealership last year and said his family would never drive it again after experiencing four sudden-acceleration events.
"They told my daughter she was texting while driving and wasn't paying attention," Marks recalled. "She is a 95-pound, little itty-bitty thing, but she was fixing to twist off on that man."
The vehicle was bought back and the title branded as a lemon, according to vehicle registration records. It was later registered in Florida, suggesting that the dealer resold it.
Much the same thing happened to Joan Marschall, a Visalia resident whose 2003 Camry accelerated on its own three times before she complained.
"I took it to the dealer and said I wouldn't drive it again," Marschall recalled. "I said I don't care if you tell me the computer says nothing happened. I know it did."
Marschall received a lemon buyback too. Registration records show the car was transferred to a new owner in Southern California.
Toyota said it had no policy to repurchase vehicles from customers complaining about sudden acceleration, though its dealers may act on their own to "preserve goodwill."
Some motorists who have confronted safety issues said the automaker has hidden information from them.
In January, Jeffrey Pepski, a financial consultant in suburban Minneapolis, took his 2007 Lexus ES 350 to the dealer after it accelerated out of control on a Twin Cities freeway, reaching 80 miles per hour.
Toyota sent an expert to examine the car Feb. 3 and download electronic data stored on the vehicle's computers. When Pepski asked for a copy of the data, he was refused.
"They said it was proprietary," Pepski recalled.
He filed a defect petition with NHTSA, and the dealer allowed Pepski to trade in the sedan for a sport utility vehicle. The Lexus ES was not branded a lemon and was resold in Minnesota, records show.
How Toyota handles requests like Pepski's has frustrated investigators and vehicle owners who want to get information contained on computers in their vehicles.
Nearly all new cars today contain an event data recorder, often called a black box, that can record several seconds of key information when accidents occur or in other circumstances.
According to Toyota, its black boxes can capture vehicle speed, engine speed, brake pedal application, accelerator pedal position and seat belt usage, among other things. That data, experts say, could be crucial to investigating causes of sudden acceleration.
Unlike manufacturers such as General Motors Co. and Ford Motor Co., Toyota's data recorders are extremely difficult for non-Toyota personnel to read, said W.R. "Rusty" Haight, a black-box expert who owns a San Diego collision investigation company.
Toyota says it has only one device in the U.S. that can read the data. An operating manual for the device, a copy of which was reviewed by The Times, indicates that it takes two passwords to operate.
On its website, Toyota says that it "will not honor EDR readout requests from private individuals or their attorneys," because its device is a prototype.
On some safety issues, Toyota has little choice but to go public.
Sudden acceleration didn't become a national issue for the automaker until this fall, when it announced its largest recall shortly after a 2009 Lexus ES accelerated out of control and crashed in San Diego County, killing an off-duty California Highway Patrol officer along with his wife, daughter and brother-in-law.
In a 5:30 a.m. conference call the day before Thanksgiving, Toyota detailed remedies to prevent acceleration problems it has blamed on gas pedals trapped by floor mats. Toyota will replace or modify pedals, replace floor mats, modify floor well padding and add new safety software to seven models, representing 4.26 million cars and trucks.
The campaign follows eight recalls in the U.S. over the last decade to fix problems that in the automaker's own words could cause sudden acceleration or faulty throttle system operation, Times research shows.
Two years ago, a NHTSA investigation found that the gas pedal in Camry and Lexus ES sedans could be trapped by rubber all-weather floor mats -- the same problem being addressed in the current recall. Toyota responded by recalling 55,000 of the vehicles, but only enlarged a warning label on the underside of the mat and on its packaging.
In 2005, Toyota recalled 3,567 Lexus IS 250 sedans because the gas pedal had a propensity to stick on a floor pad. In 2006, it recalled 367,594 Highlander and Lexus RX SUVs after receiving complaints that an interior cover could interfere with the accelerator pedal, keeping it depressed.
All those followed a 2003 recall in Canada of 408 Celicas, also for floor mat interference with the accelerator pedal.
In the ongoing Sienna recall, Toyota is replacing a hard-plastic trim panel over the center console. In its statement to The Times, the automaker said that pedal entrapment could only be caused in the event of a missing attachment clip, which might not be replaced after service work.
Toyota said it issued the recall voluntarily after a single complaint to NHTSA prompted an investigation by the agency. "In response to Toyota's voluntary campaign, regulators closed the investigation," the company said.
NHTSA officials did not respond to a written question about the recall and the agency's oversight of the matter.
The Sienna incident wasn't the only time that Toyota issued a recall long after discovering a problem.
In 1994, NHTSA slapped Toyota with a $250,000 fine, at the time the agency's second-largest, for providing misleading information about a fuel leak in Land Cruisers and waiting two years to undertake a recall to fix the problem. Toyota acknowledged that it failed to conduct a timely recall but denied withholding information from the agency.
A decade later, Toyota recalled about 330,000 vehicles in Japan after a 2004 crash there -- caused by a broken steering linkage -- seriously injured five people. The vehicle in the accident, a Hilux Surf, was sold in the U.S. as the 4Runner. Other truck models sold here, including the Toyota 4x4 and T100 pickups, also used the same linkage, a steering relay rod.
Despite that, the company told NHTSA in an October 2004 letter that it would not conduct a U.S. recall because it had not received information here indicating a problem with the part.
Documents entered in four lawsuits filed in Los Angeles this year, however, show that Toyota had received numerous consumer complaints dating from 2000 and had replaced dozens of the parts under warranty. The documents also show that Japanese police, in an investigation of the defect, said that Toyota employees had known about the problem since 1992 and should have initiated a recall immediately.
In September 2005, Toyota recalled nearly 1 million vehicles in the U.S. to replace the part, its second-largest campaign.
It came too late for Zackary Audulewicz of Ila, Ga., relatives said. The 20-year-old was driving his Toyota 4x4 to work in August 2003 when the pickup lost control. A witness said she heard a pop and saw a spark just before the pickup careened off the road, flipped into the air and rolled on its roof. Audulewicz was killed instantly.
"I feel like they knew about the problem long before the recall," said Don Audulewicz, Zackary's father and one of the plaintiffs in the suits. "I can't understand why whoever was making decisions at Toyota would do that."
Toyota declined to discuss the case, citing its policy not to comment on pending litigation. In a written statement, Toyota explained that its own investigation of the defective steering component part led it to broaden the recall to include the T100 truck.
On several occasions in the last decade, Toyota has been admonished by judges for failing to provide evidence. In 2000, for example, a Missouri state judge sanctioned it for failing to disclose results of five rear-impact tests of Corollas "despite numerous discovery requests." He ordered a new trial.
In 2007, California's Court of Appeal found that "Toyota had intentionally violated two orders compelling discovery" of stability test results in a case involving a Toyota-made forklift that tipped over and killed a worker. The court slapped Toyota with a $138,984.33 sanction and ordered a new trial. Toyota, which denied wrongdoing, ultimately settled the case.
E. Todd Tracy, a Texas attorney with 22 years of experience litigating against automakers, believes that Toyota's issues with legal discovery run far deeper than a few sanctions.
Over the last three months, he has moved to reopen 17 lawsuits against the automaker related to vehicle rollovers because he now believes Toyota routinely hid information in those cases.
His argument rests on four boxes of documents submitted by Biller, the former Toyota attorney. The contents have not yet been revealed, but Tracy believes they prove that Toyota hid crucial information about rollovers in those lawsuits.
"This is clearly information that Toyota does not want the public to see," Tracy said. "For years, they were the gold standard, but right now they have more problems than they know what to do with."
#256
Senior Moderator
#257
Someday, an RS6 Avant+
Where's Majin when we need him? Hmm....
#259
Punk Rocker
Right here. Just laying low because several people on this forum can't deal with different opinions. As far as the LA Times article: Meh. I mean, they are not exactly the gold standard as far as jounalism goes and they obviously have an agenda in this case (printing stories about car companies that aren't involved in some type of massive, scandalous coverup doesn't sell too many papers).
That being said, there are some intriguing accusations being made by several people. I will be interested to see if there is any actual PROOF that comes out of this litigation, other than the hearsay and inuendo that we have been hearing so far....
That being said, there are some intriguing accusations being made by several people. I will be interested to see if there is any actual PROOF that comes out of this litigation, other than the hearsay and inuendo that we have been hearing so far....
#260
Evil Mazda Driver
What about the black box data that Lexus is refusing to release? Doesn't that at least strike you as odd or that they are covering up the proof of an electronic throttle problem?
#261
Punk Rocker
^^^Thats like saying somebody is guilty in a court of law because they refused to answer police questioning. Obviously Toyota has alot of proprietary software that they are unwilling to just let everyone take a look at.
Could they be trying to cover something up? Sure. Could they also just be making sure their technology doesn't get out into the public? You bet. If there really is something on those boxes that proves there is a problem they will be subpoenaed in court and we will see. Until that time this is all still complete conjecture, as I have said all along....
Could they be trying to cover something up? Sure. Could they also just be making sure their technology doesn't get out into the public? You bet. If there really is something on those boxes that proves there is a problem they will be subpoenaed in court and we will see. Until that time this is all still complete conjecture, as I have said all along....
#262
Someday, an RS6 Avant+
^^^Thats like saying somebody is guilty in a court of law because they refused to answer police questioning. Obviously Toyota has alot of proprietary software that they are unwilling to just let everyone take a look at.
Could they be trying to cover something up? Sure. Could they also just be making sure their technology doesn't get out into the public? You bet. If there really is something on those boxes that proves there is a problem they will be subpoenaed in court and we will see. Until that time this is all still complete conjecture, as I have said all along....
Could they be trying to cover something up? Sure. Could they also just be making sure their technology doesn't get out into the public? You bet. If there really is something on those boxes that proves there is a problem they will be subpoenaed in court and we will see. Until that time this is all still complete conjecture, as I have said all along....
I'm just saying, yeah, a lot of us have been pretty rough on you about this issue because of your unflagging loyalty to Toyota. What I'm saying is this is beginning to look a bit more like a cover up.
It will all play out as time goes, I just hope no one else dies during this period of "investigative reporting".
Last edited by mrmako; 12-27-2009 at 04:09 AM.
#263
Safety Car
If you read my second to last post you will see that I gave out a general warning. It was not directed at you. In my last post I did post for you to think before you posted something as flipping someone off is just as bad as the other dude calling you a ignorant MF. I could care less if someone disagree's with me, I'm not the internet police trying to catch people who put out the wrong info or try to hurt others. As well I don't really give anyone vacations, that's up to the mega's and admin's, your being sarcastic towards me or anyone for the matter is just further compounding multiple reasons as why you should get one.
#264
Senior Moderator
^^^Thats like saying somebody is guilty in a court of law because they refused to answer police questioning. Obviously Toyota has alot of proprietary software that they are unwilling to just let everyone take a look at.
Could they be trying to cover something up? Sure. Could they also just be making sure their technology doesn't get out into the public? You bet. If there really is something on those boxes that proves there is a problem they will be subpoenaed in court and we will see. Until that time this is all still complete conjecture, as I have said all along....
Could they be trying to cover something up? Sure. Could they also just be making sure their technology doesn't get out into the public? You bet. If there really is something on those boxes that proves there is a problem they will be subpoenaed in court and we will see. Until that time this is all still complete conjecture, as I have said all along....
#265
Evil Mazda Driver
Somebody sent this to me. Gentlemen...I proudly present our smoking gun.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/toyota-a...floor-mat.html
http://www.leftlanenews.com/toyota-a...floor-mat.html
In a rather bizarre instance, a driver reportedly began to experience unintended acceleration from his Toyota Avalon and was able to drive the car to a nearby dealer with the vehicle still displaying wide open throttle, despite having the floormat removed. Dealer techs witnessed the problem and have reportedly offered to repair the vehicle free of charge.
According to a report from The Safety Record, on December 29, 2009, the driver of a 2007 Toyota Avalon experienced a bizarre case of sudden and unintended acceleration while driving on the highway, just miles from a local Toyota dealer. The driver managed to switch the vehicle between Neutral and Drive multiple times, while en route to the dealer in order to show the dealer the problem as it was still occurring.
The driver was able to reach the dealer, place the vehicle into neutral, and allow it to continue operating at wide open throttle. The dealer sent out a tech who verified that the floor mat was removed, and pushing the gas pedal had no effect on the acceleration. The dealer was unable to stop the wide open throttle and was forced to shut the vehicle off.
This incident was apparently not the first for the driver, either, who had been to the dealer before about the problem. The first time the unintended acceleration occurred, the driver was able to slow the vehicle with the brakes and switch the vehicle into neutral – where the engine continued to hit maximum rpms. At the time of the first incident, dealer diagnostics revealed no problems in the computer.
The dealer eventually offered to replace the throttle body, accelerator pedal and associated sensors free of charge for the driver after the second incident.
This incident may prove to be a crucial step in finding the true cause of the many reported cases of unintended acceleration in Toyota vehicles. Toyota began its largest-ever recall in 2009 to replace the floor mats and accelerator pedals in over 3.8 million vehicles that could experience unintended acceleration. Critics and survivors of unintended acceleration cases argued that the problem was not a result of the floor mats or accelerator pedals, but instead insist that the computer controlling the acceleration of the vehicle is at fault.
The Safety Record also reported on a one-car crash that occurred in Dallas, Texas the day after Christmas involving a Toyota Avalon. According to the accident report, the vehicle inexplicably left the road and ended up crashing through a fence, and landing upside down in a pond – killing all four occupants. The floor mats were found in the trunk of the car – ruling out the possibility of the floor mat causing the accident.
The official cause of the Dallas crash has not yet been determined.
According to a report from The Safety Record, on December 29, 2009, the driver of a 2007 Toyota Avalon experienced a bizarre case of sudden and unintended acceleration while driving on the highway, just miles from a local Toyota dealer. The driver managed to switch the vehicle between Neutral and Drive multiple times, while en route to the dealer in order to show the dealer the problem as it was still occurring.
The driver was able to reach the dealer, place the vehicle into neutral, and allow it to continue operating at wide open throttle. The dealer sent out a tech who verified that the floor mat was removed, and pushing the gas pedal had no effect on the acceleration. The dealer was unable to stop the wide open throttle and was forced to shut the vehicle off.
This incident was apparently not the first for the driver, either, who had been to the dealer before about the problem. The first time the unintended acceleration occurred, the driver was able to slow the vehicle with the brakes and switch the vehicle into neutral – where the engine continued to hit maximum rpms. At the time of the first incident, dealer diagnostics revealed no problems in the computer.
The dealer eventually offered to replace the throttle body, accelerator pedal and associated sensors free of charge for the driver after the second incident.
This incident may prove to be a crucial step in finding the true cause of the many reported cases of unintended acceleration in Toyota vehicles. Toyota began its largest-ever recall in 2009 to replace the floor mats and accelerator pedals in over 3.8 million vehicles that could experience unintended acceleration. Critics and survivors of unintended acceleration cases argued that the problem was not a result of the floor mats or accelerator pedals, but instead insist that the computer controlling the acceleration of the vehicle is at fault.
The Safety Record also reported on a one-car crash that occurred in Dallas, Texas the day after Christmas involving a Toyota Avalon. According to the accident report, the vehicle inexplicably left the road and ended up crashing through a fence, and landing upside down in a pond – killing all four occupants. The floor mats were found in the trunk of the car – ruling out the possibility of the floor mat causing the accident.
The official cause of the Dallas crash has not yet been determined.
#266
Someday, an RS6 Avant+
Wow...... You know, this would be a convenient time to point out who appears to be right in this situation, but the reality is 4 more people died because Toyota failed to deal with this issue head on.
If I were in that family, I would go for everything Toyota has.....
If I were in that family, I would go for everything Toyota has.....
#267
This is just unacceptable. We have an ES350 and I'm starting to grow very worried. They'd better not cower behind the hope that thing all just goes away because this is one serious recall. People have died as a result of this..... and yet the only solutions we hear or see are dealers putting in different floor mats, and ghetto rigging zip ties?
What a fucking joke.
What a fucking joke.
#269
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
The 4 in Dallas didn't have a chance.. whatever the cause it's very sad..
<object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" id="video" data="http://www.myfoxdfw.com/video/videoplayer.swf?dppversion=4747" width="320" height="280">
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http://www.myfoxdfw.com/dpp/news/com...ent#55212322-2
<object type="application/x-shockwave-flash" id="video" data="http://www.myfoxdfw.com/video/videoplayer.swf?dppversion=4747" width="320" height="280">
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http://www.myfoxdfw.com/dpp/news/com...ent#55212322-2
Last edited by Majofo; 01-18-2010 at 03:15 PM.
#272
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
fucking ridiculous.
Toyota definitely needs to do something about this immediately. and no, it's not the floormat, you dumbfs.
Toyota definitely needs to do something about this immediately. and no, it's not the floormat, you dumbfs.
#273
#274
Senior Moderator
Toyota is in deep shit. Them trying to cover this shit up as a floor mat problem is unacceptable!
#275
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Have you guys seen the latest Toyota commercials.. they're not model specific but talk about Toyota's reliability, etc.. boosting the brand name. "Reliability.. to move you forward" jeez..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vhuXaANaSU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vhuXaANaSU
#277
wow
That is said. My prayers go out to the families once again. loosing a family member to something like this would definately tear you apart.
I guess the conspiracy theory about faulty tcm programming wasnt that far off. (maybe a common module as well)
That is said. My prayers go out to the families once again. loosing a family member to something like this would definately tear you apart.
I guess the conspiracy theory about faulty tcm programming wasnt that far off. (maybe a common module as well)
#278
Whoah....yes it's tragic, but nowhere in the article posted above does it say anything about the cause of the Dallas crash. Speeding? Texting? Alcohol or drugs? Distracted? Arguing? Missed a turn? Stroke? People crash for lots of reasons OTHER than out of control ECUs, and there are LOTS of toyotas on the road.....heck i saw 2 run into each other just today, and it didn't look like a "stuck accelerator" was the cause.....
Last edited by MiataNut; 01-18-2010 at 10:56 PM.
#279
Someday, an RS6 Avant+
Whoah....yes it's tragic, but nowhere in the article posted above does it say anything about the cause of the Dallas crash. Speeding? Texting? Alcohol or drugs? Distracted? Arguing? Missed a turn? Stroke? People crash for lots of reasons OTHER than out of control ECUs, and there are LOTS of toyotas on the road.....heck i saw 2 run into each other just today, and it didn't look like a "stuck accelerator" was the cause.....
I call
#280
Evil Mazda Driver
Whoah....yes it's tragic, but nowhere in the article posted above does it say anything about the cause of the Dallas crash. Speeding? Texting? Alcohol or drugs? Distracted? Arguing? Missed a turn? Stroke? People crash for lots of reasons OTHER than out of control ECUs, and there are LOTS of toyotas on the road.....heck i saw 2 run into each other just today, and it didn't look like a "stuck accelerator" was the cause.....
In the instances where cars have taken off at WOT without driver instruction or pedal interference, I stand by a defective drive-by-wire module as the likely culprit. The fact that they aren't throwing codes when these devices act up is all the more concerning and makes it even easier for Toyota to blame the driver.
I have to ask...if Hyundai was having this problem would you be willing to give them such leeway? Probably not.