Stuck accelerator kills 4 in Santee *Recall - Page 2*
02-22-2010, 11:24 PM
#523
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Thread Starter
Geez, this automotive professor and ABC news was able to simulate Toyota uninted acceleration by short circuiting the ECU AND it doesn't cause a fault to register on the ECU. Check out the video. Talk about a smoking gun...
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/22/v...n-acceleratio/
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/02/22/v...n-acceleratio/
02-23-2010, 07:52 PM
#525
Evil Mazda Driver
I watched the tail end of the Congressional hearings today (C-SPAN3) and it took on a very surreal feeling. When this topic was just a one-page, memorial to four lost lives, never in my wildest dreams could I have believed it would have ever come this far.
Truly astonishing.
Truly astonishing.
02-23-2010, 08:17 PM
#526
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Hopefully this mess gets straightened out.. the variables didn't add up to begin with. No matter what the conclusion ends up being, several wonderful lives were tragically lost way too soon.
02-27-2010, 12:09 AM
#527
Someday, an RS6 Avant+
And I hope the result of this will not cause any more lives to be lost this way.
03-01-2010, 08:40 PM
#528
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A guy on the Lexus forums took a loaner Lexus and tried the pedal floored neutral method. The car would not let him go into Neutral when it was floored. It was locked into gear. When he let off the gas, it then let him do it. This might be why people are having issues and not putting it in N.
03-02-2010, 06:01 AM
#529
Evil Mazda Driver
Gotta agree with you there. The new ones just don't have the quality of the models of the 90s.
Well...today's the day. Toyota will announce their sales figures for February along with rumors of steep discounts along the lines of up to $3,500 cash back and 0% financing for 60 months. Me thinks the paper will be awash in red ink.
Well...today's the day. Toyota will announce their sales figures for February along with rumors of steep discounts along the lines of up to $3,500 cash back and 0% financing for 60 months. Me thinks the paper will be awash in red ink.
03-02-2010, 12:11 PM
#530
Senior Moderator
I see another recall was handed out today by Toyota for a oil line causing motors to go bad, and at minimum the oil light to come on 
what is going on with toyota.
what is going on with toyota.
03-02-2010, 02:07 PM
#531
Runs on Dunkin
This may sound like weird analogy, but to me Toyota is best compared to the turtle and the hare. Toyota lept ahead in quality, sales, and overall value for a long time, got too comfortable, and is now being passed by Ford, Hyundai, and others who were lagging for some time but pressed on and finally caught up.
03-03-2010, 01:58 PM
#533
Burning Brakes
After recall repairs done, Owners complain of sudden acceleration
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35690247/ns/business-autos
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35690247/ns/business-autos
03-03-2010, 02:50 PM
#534
Safety Car
That's gonna hurt. Toyota is just guessing what the problem is. I am laughing at the Lexus forums as they are making up so many excuses especially 1sicklex. LOL
03-03-2010, 03:03 PM
#535
Someday, an RS6 Avant+
A look at what Toyota is doing....
03-03-2010, 06:01 PM
#537
Senior Moderator
After recall repairs done, Owners complain of sudden acceleration
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35690247/ns/business-autos
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35690247/ns/business-autos
03-03-2010, 06:05 PM
#538
03-03-2010, 07:20 PM
#541
Senior Moderator
I read somewhere that in certain circumstances (e.g. full throttle) it is not possible to shift to neutral. I don't have a link handy though.
Not saying this *is* what happened, just saying, there were many possibilities.
Not saying this *is* what happened, just saying, there were many possibilities.
03-03-2010, 07:23 PM
#542
Evil Mazda Driver
Anybody notice the conspiracy theorists are starting to come out of the woodwork, saying this was all a government ploy to destroy Toyota because they now own GM?
Please...Toyota's been covering this up since LOOONG before Government Motors came around.
Please...Toyota's been covering this up since LOOONG before Government Motors came around.
03-03-2010, 07:23 PM
#543
Evil Mazda Driver
Anybody notice the conspiracy theorists are starting to come out of the woodwork, saying this was all a ploy by the government because they own GM?
Please...Toyota's been covering this up since LOOONG before Government Motors came around.
Please...Toyota's been covering this up since LOOONG before Government Motors came around.
03-03-2010, 07:47 PM
#545
From what I've read, I'm pretty sure the only way to stop the car in such a case is to hold the Push Start button for 3 seconds, after which the car will shutoff. But most people don't even know about it.
If the car in mention was stick, this problem probably wouldn't have happened. Sweet.... now I have yet another reason to buy stick!
If the car in mention was stick, this problem probably wouldn't have happened. Sweet.... now I have yet another reason to buy stick!
03-04-2010, 04:05 AM
#546
Someday, an RS6 Avant+
From what I've read, I'm pretty sure the only way to stop the car in such a case is to hold the Push Start button for 3 seconds, after which the car will shutoff. But most people don't even know about it.
If the car in mention was stick, this problem probably wouldn't have happened. Sweet.... now I have yet another reason to buy stick!
If the car in mention was stick, this problem probably wouldn't have happened. Sweet.... now I have yet another reason to buy stick!
The gun is starting to smoke kids..... Look at this:
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/03/business/la-fi-toyota3-2010mar03
And this:
http://www.fox5vegas.com/automotive/22728693/detail.html
And this:
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/engineering/article7049152.ece
If you have been defending Toyota, you need to change your underwear right about now. The "shim" did nothing. And for one guy I heard on NPR, they re-flashed his ECU, then nearly had an accident a week later because of "unintended acceleration"....
03-04-2010, 05:27 AM
#547
Evil Mazda Driver
This line scares me and truly brings doubt that they have the balls to address this problem. Confidence in fixes that don't work? Please...
Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons said Wednesday the company was investigating the complaints, though it remains confident in its recall fixes.
03-04-2010, 08:35 AM
#548
Senior Moderator
03-04-2010, 02:29 PM
#549
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I think you can shift into neutral. Or at least down shift or use parking brake.
There are 34 or 36 "suspected" deaths... out of how many millions of cars sold?
I do know that Congress pulled Mr. Toyoda in a lot faster than they did any other car maker (in terms of how many complaints recieved).
I never liked Toyotas anyway.
There are 34 or 36 "suspected" deaths... out of how many millions of cars sold?
I do know that Congress pulled Mr. Toyoda in a lot faster than they did any other car maker (in terms of how many complaints recieved).
I never liked Toyotas anyway.
03-04-2010, 02:39 PM
#550
Senior Moderator
if you haven't been in the situation yourself, don't be so certain about whether or not you can do certain things in such situation.
IMO
IMO
03-04-2010, 02:39 PM
#551
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Downshift & Parking Brake 
Mr. Roboto is programmed to not harm himself so your downshift input would be denied. Applying the parking brake at high speeds would be like pushing a vw beetle in front of a M1 abrams.
Mr. Roboto is programmed to not harm himself so your downshift input would be denied. Applying the parking brake at high speeds would be like pushing a vw beetle in front of a M1 abrams.
03-04-2010, 02:49 PM
#552
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I wouldn't be so stupid as to leave my car in drive or, if I had push button start, not know how to shut off the engine in an emergency. But, then again, I have driven a stick shift for the last 15 years so the idea of shifting into neutral when the engine is racing isn't a foreign one to me.
And I did have my throttle cable get stuck and jam once so the engine did race out of control; obviously I did not die.
Mr. Roboto... good one. He is programmed to deny your shift even if you do it using the shift lever not a paddle?
And I did have my throttle cable get stuck and jam once so the engine did race out of control; obviously I did not die.
Mr. Roboto... good one. He is programmed to deny your shift even if you do it using the shift lever not a paddle?
03-04-2010, 03:09 PM
#553
Someday, an RS6 Avant+
03-04-2010, 03:13 PM
#554
Senior Moderator
uh .. dont have time to read / comprehend atm... cliffs? 
03-04-2010, 03:14 PM
#555
Safety Car
I also read about this and the shifter system has it's own lockouts. It will not let you shift it while the car is floored into N. A guy on the Lexus forum tested this on a loaner.
Read this thread from the start. The linkage in a Toyota is not purely mechanical. The transmission does not allow a shift at WOT.
No, Mercedes has this and some other "drive by wire" cars, but the Toyota does not. At least until this problem cropped up and it was pointed out that there's no way to cut power.
The gun is starting to smoke kids..... Look at this:
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/03/business/la-fi-toyota3-2010mar03
And this:
http://www.fox5vegas.com/automotive/22728693/detail.html
And this:
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/engineering/article7049152.ece
If you have been defending Toyota, you need to change your underwear right about now. The "shim" did nothing. And for one guy I heard on NPR, they re-flashed his ECU, then nearly had an accident a week later because of "unintended acceleration"....
No, Mercedes has this and some other "drive by wire" cars, but the Toyota does not. At least until this problem cropped up and it was pointed out that there's no way to cut power.
The gun is starting to smoke kids..... Look at this:
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/03/business/la-fi-toyota3-2010mar03
And this:
http://www.fox5vegas.com/automotive/22728693/detail.html
And this:
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/engineering/article7049152.ece
If you have been defending Toyota, you need to change your underwear right about now. The "shim" did nothing. And for one guy I heard on NPR, they re-flashed his ECU, then nearly had an accident a week later because of "unintended acceleration"....
03-04-2010, 03:19 PM
#556
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Yep.. otherwise overrev leading to popped valves. Assuming the logic side of the pcm is still functioning, it wont let you do it. Remember that whether it's the shift lever or paddle.. it's still an electrical signal to the pcm not a mechanical linkage to the transmission.
03-04-2010, 03:36 PM
#557
Senior Moderator
I wouldn't be so stupid as to leave my car in drive or, if I had push button start, not know how to shut off the engine in an emergency. But, then again, I have driven a stick shift for the last 15 years so the idea of shifting into neutral when the engine is racing isn't a foreign one to me.
And I did have my throttle cable get stuck and jam once so the engine did race out of control; obviously I did not die.
Mr. Roboto... good one. He is programmed to deny your shift even if you do it using the shift lever not a paddle?
And I did have my throttle cable get stuck and jam once so the engine did race out of control; obviously I did not die.
Mr. Roboto... good one. He is programmed to deny your shift even if you do it using the shift lever not a paddle?
I think we (and Toyota) really have no clue what all is going on here.
03-04-2010, 07:28 PM
#559
My only car is a Bus
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Cops have ADs all the time (accidental discharges) with their service weapons... doesn't mean just because they have been on the force for 19 years that they don't suffer from panic.
Anyway, it's too bad the guy died w/his family but I still say neutral, lower gear, parking brake, or turning off the car. You can't tell me none of those things didn't work.
I think they call that user error.
Just another reason why I only drive stick shifts.
Shame on Toyota for not spending a couple of extra bucks and including a fuel cut-off on all cars with drive-by-wire throttle systems, though. MB has had it since 2002.
Anyway, it's too bad the guy died w/his family but I still say neutral, lower gear, parking brake, or turning off the car. You can't tell me none of those things didn't work.
I think they call that user error.
Just another reason why I only drive stick shifts.
Shame on Toyota for not spending a couple of extra bucks and including a fuel cut-off on all cars with drive-by-wire throttle systems, though. MB has had it since 2002.
03-05-2010, 04:29 AM
#560
Someday, an RS6 Avant+
Cops have ADs all the time (accidental discharges) with their service weapons... doesn't mean just because they have been on the force for 19 years that they don't suffer from panic.
Anyway, it's too bad the guy died w/his family but I still say neutral, lower gear, parking brake, or turning off the car. You can't tell me none of those things didn't work.
I think they call that user error.
Just another reason why I only drive stick shifts.
Shame on Toyota for not spending a couple of extra bucks and including a fuel cut-off on all cars with drive-by-wire throttle systems, though. MB has had it since 2002.
Anyway, it's too bad the guy died w/his family but I still say neutral, lower gear, parking brake, or turning off the car. You can't tell me none of those things didn't work.
I think they call that user error.
Just another reason why I only drive stick shifts.
Shame on Toyota for not spending a couple of extra bucks and including a fuel cut-off on all cars with drive-by-wire throttle systems, though. MB has had it since 2002.
If so, someone on here with a 2002-2008 Lexus ES or Camry could pipe in and let us know if this safety feature is in their manuals.