General Car Talk Discussion Thread
Safety Car
Very interesting observation by AoA over on his YT page:
https://www.youtube.com/post/Ugx1SLwl6gTXeh2lnql4AaABCQ
Thoughts?
https://www.youtube.com/post/Ugx1SLwl6gTXeh2lnql4AaABCQ
Thoughts?
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civicdrivr (05-09-2021)
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Thread Starter
Agreed, cars got bigger, wider, taller, basically just over-sized to not only accommodate and enhance safety measures and statistics but also (in the USA) to accommodate fatter people. The net result is yes that even a "regular" car can have as much inside space as an 80's minivan.
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nist7 (05-09-2021)
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Thread Starter
On that note, the current Sienna and Odyssey are incredible rides.
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nist7 (05-09-2021)
Safety Car
Agreed, cars got bigger, wider, taller, basically just over-sized to not only accommodate and enhance safety measures and statistics but also (in the USA) to accommodate fatter people. The net result is yes that even a "regular" car can have as much inside space as an 80's minivan.
Modern day minivans are some of the most awesome/versatile/useful vehicles today. I fully intend to have one in my garage in the future
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civicdrivr (05-09-2021)
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I love the oddball 1G Odyssey with the 4 doors. Even though I admit the sliding rear doors are more convenient and easier, there's something about the form factor of the 1G with 4 real doors that I really like.
If that's where today's 3 row SUVs are heading .. they can't get there fast enough, IMO.
If that's where today's 3 row SUVs are heading .. they can't get there fast enough, IMO.
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Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
I love the 1G Odyssey. I've always wanted to slam one and swap in an H22, but these days I'd rather stuff a J series in there.
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Aman (05-13-2021)
Team Owner
So it begins... sooner than I thought
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Thread Starter
Nice man!
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oonowindoo (05-10-2021)
Azine Jabroni
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oonowindoo (05-10-2021)
Team Owner
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nist7 (05-11-2021)
Ex-OEM King
I'm still waiting for my car to go into production...
Team Owner
Moderator
^ In his sig, Golf Cart (aka, Model 3 Performance IIRC)
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oonowindoo (05-11-2021)
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Thread Starter
Electric sea cucumber ?
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
I was ready to pull the trigger on an X3M Comp last week but the really good deals (9-11% off before incentives) have all dried up, and I was quoted a 16 week lead time, if I'm lucky
I wonder how long those dots will take to cross.
I wonder how long those dots will take to cross.
Team Owner
10% off is not hard if you are qualified for the incentives. The issues with X3M is BMW is not providing good programs relatively speaking, because supply < Demand right now. That is not to say the demand is high, but the supply has dropped for reasons that is out of their control.
My local dealer is literally running out of cars to sell.
Ex-OEM King
Model 3 Performance
Neither, it's made in South Carolina.
It is hard to get those discounts. I tried to snag a X3M Comp as well and couldn't find any dealer willing to give that kind of a price discount. The best I could do nationwide (was going to do PCD so selling dealer location was irrelevant) was 4% just because the supply is basically a trickle at this point. Even retired demos and loaners were going for unreal money. A G80 M3 was MSRP at least, many were $5k-$10k over. No way any dealer is going to budge on pricing for something that has a 16 week lead time lol. The X3M at $65k-$70k like many people were getting is an amazing deal. At $85k MSRP...not so much. The other downside was no manual option (obv) and if I was going auto, I was just going to go EV.
Is X3M made in Ohio or Germany?
10% off is not hard if you are qualified for the incentives. The issues with X3M is BMW is not providing good programs relatively speaking, because supply < Demand right now. That is not to say the demand is high, but the supply has dropped for reasons that is out of their control.
My local dealer is literally running out of cars to sell.
10% off is not hard if you are qualified for the incentives. The issues with X3M is BMW is not providing good programs relatively speaking, because supply < Demand right now. That is not to say the demand is high, but the supply has dropped for reasons that is out of their control.
My local dealer is literally running out of cars to sell.
It is hard to get those discounts. I tried to snag a X3M Comp as well and couldn't find any dealer willing to give that kind of a price discount. The best I could do nationwide (was going to do PCD so selling dealer location was irrelevant) was 4% just because the supply is basically a trickle at this point. Even retired demos and loaners were going for unreal money. A G80 M3 was MSRP at least, many were $5k-$10k over. No way any dealer is going to budge on pricing for something that has a 16 week lead time lol. The X3M at $65k-$70k like many people were getting is an amazing deal. At $85k MSRP...not so much. The other downside was no manual option (obv) and if I was going auto, I was just going to go EV.
Ex-OEM King
If it's in production, it's not that long. Maybe a 6 weeks? Most of that will be shipping time, especially to the west coast.
Team Owner
Model 3 Performance
Neither, it's made in South Carolina.
It is hard to get those discounts. I tried to snag a X3M Comp as well and couldn't find any dealer willing to give that kind of a price discount. The best I could do nationwide (was going to do PCD so selling dealer location was irrelevant) was 4% just because the supply is basically a trickle at this point. Even retired demos and loaners were going for unreal money. A G80 M3 was MSRP at least, many were $5k-$10k over. No way any dealer is going to budge on pricing for something that has a 16 week lead time lol. The X3M at $65k-$70k like many people were getting is an amazing deal. At $85k MSRP...not so much. The other downside was no manual option (obv) and if I was going auto, I was just going to go EV.
Neither, it's made in South Carolina.
It is hard to get those discounts. I tried to snag a X3M Comp as well and couldn't find any dealer willing to give that kind of a price discount. The best I could do nationwide (was going to do PCD so selling dealer location was irrelevant) was 4% just because the supply is basically a trickle at this point. Even retired demos and loaners were going for unreal money. A G80 M3 was MSRP at least, many were $5k-$10k over. No way any dealer is going to budge on pricing for something that has a 16 week lead time lol. The X3M at $65k-$70k like many people were getting is an amazing deal. At $85k MSRP...not so much. The other downside was no manual option (obv) and if I was going auto, I was just going to go EV.
Yah .. the supply has really been any issue lately for all imported cars.
I was offered 15% off (with $2000 loyalty) on a X3M for a stock unit in early March. But the exterior color, the interior color, the options, the wheels are all shit (to me) ..Basically Except the engine, Nothing else on that car is what i wanted. and i feel like i would have to force myself to buy something i really do not like and it is an SUV. But it is an 500hp M
Then everything changed after that.
Are you leasing the Model 3 or buying?
Last edited by oonowindoo; 05-11-2021 at 03:01 PM.
Team Owner
I feel like the ship is gonna just wait around at San Pedro Port for at least 2 -3 weeks waiting to unload once it arrives.
Ex-OEM King
oh duh...
Yah .. the supply has really been any issue lately for all imported cars.
I was offered 15% off (with $2000 loyalty) on a X3M for a stock unit in early March. But the exterior color, the interior color, the options, the wheels are all shit (to me) ..Basically Except the engine, Nothing else on that car is what i wanted. and i feel like i would have to force myself to buy something i really do not like and it is an SUV. But it is an 500hp M
Then everything changed after that.
Are you leasing the Model 3 or buying?
Yah .. the supply has really been any issue lately for all imported cars.
I was offered 15% off (with $2000 loyalty) on a X3M for a stock unit in early March. But the exterior color, the interior color, the options, the wheels are all shit (to me) ..Basically Except the engine, Nothing else on that car is what i wanted. and i feel like i would have to force myself to buy something i really do not like and it is an SUV. But it is an 500hp M
Then everything changed after that.
Are you leasing the Model 3 or buying?
I'm buying the car. Lease terms on the Model 3 aren't very good and the resale value is really good.
Team Owner
Yeah, I should have started to look before when prices were lower but we were still in the we're buying a new house mode before realizing that's a futile effort right now. Once we decided to wait on the house I basically said I'm getting a new car. Wife miraculously agreed. She's almost more excited for the Tesla than I am.
I'm buying the car. Lease terms on the Model 3 aren't very good and the resale value is really good.
I'm buying the car. Lease terms on the Model 3 aren't very good and the resale value is really good.
Apparently we just have too many rich people
Nope...
Moderator
Home construction is a mess too.
One of the guys here in my office knows 2 people building houses (1 in NE Houston, the other somewhere in Louisiana)
The Houston home got put on hold, cost of bldg materials added $100k to the project.
LA house was further along & materials added $45k to the house.
I've moved enough times (17) that I don't want to do it again.
One of the guys here in my office knows 2 people building houses (1 in NE Houston, the other somewhere in Louisiana)
The Houston home got put on hold, cost of bldg materials added $100k to the project.
LA house was further along & materials added $45k to the house.
I've moved enough times (17) that I don't want to do it again.
Ex-OEM King
The buying a house now is ...... didnt realize it is the same situation in MN. i dont understand the market at all. you would think it would be a opposite situation now because of the pandemics and so many people were out of jobs.
Apparently we just have too many rich people
Nope...
Apparently we just have too many rich people
Nope...
Team Owner
People have been smoking too much crack under quarantine...
I would never pay over asking price just as i will never pay over MSRP for a car. It is not about the $ but principle. I would just wait.. i dont believe this kind of BS will last forever.
I briefly looked at the available houses in my area a few weeks ago and thought i forgot to put a 0 in my $ range search criteria, because not even 1 house showed up
That is when i realized the prices are no longer what i thought they were
I would never pay over asking price just as i will never pay over MSRP for a car. It is not about the $ but principle. I would just wait.. i dont believe this kind of BS will last forever.
I briefly looked at the available houses in my area a few weeks ago and thought i forgot to put a 0 in my $ range search criteria, because not even 1 house showed up
That is when i realized the prices are no longer what i thought they were
Last edited by oonowindoo; 05-11-2021 at 05:34 PM.
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
It's insane here too. People are buying houses for over appraised value and waiving inspection in addition to going WAY over asking price. We put in offers for three houses, all minimum $40k over asking but no money over appraised and inspection was required...didn't get a single one. My parents sold their house a few weeks ago for $25k over appraised and no inspection, it sold in 2 days after going on the market. Thankfully they locked in pricing for the new house they're building last August so they made out really well in all this lol.
Team Owner
50k over.. you could have gotten an extra Model 3 with that.... and you would still be able to buy the same house at asking price if it is not because of this non-sense BS.
Last edited by oonowindoo; 05-11-2021 at 10:52 PM.
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
It seems I am not going to buy another house in a long time.... i actually still want some discount
50k over.. you could have gotten an extra Model 3 with that.... and you would still be able to buy the same house at asking price if it is not because of this non-sense BS.
50k over.. you could have gotten an extra Model 3 with that.... and you would still be able to buy the same house at asking price if it is not because of this non-sense BS.
The value of house already went up by 80k above what we paid in 6 months ago. i knew it was going to be like this. Sold my condo for 90k above what I bought for 3 years ago. So all in all, it worked out pretty nicely.
So hard to find a house that you actually love you know.
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
House prices are through the roof here in VA as well. Lumber sucks. I was building a deck last year and it was about $4500. This year - $12k. And that's with a slight change to the design that requires less materials. Going with composite boards is only $14k, last year it was $11k. It's mind boggling how much lumber shot up. I may start listing the plywood sheets I have in the garage
@SamDoe1 - if it's in production, maybe. But as mentioned above, production is trickling out at this point. Even the A6 Allroad is a 4 month wait. Last summer was definitely the time to buy new; discounts were plentiful and rates/incentives were fantastic. The standard discount on the X3M Comp was something like $5500 and .9% financing. Now it's 1.9% and no cash discount.
@SamDoe1 - if it's in production, maybe. But as mentioned above, production is trickling out at this point. Even the A6 Allroad is a 4 month wait. Last summer was definitely the time to buy new; discounts were plentiful and rates/incentives were fantastic. The standard discount on the X3M Comp was something like $5500 and .9% financing. Now it's 1.9% and no cash discount.
Last edited by civicdrivr; 05-12-2021 at 06:57 AM.
Ex-OEM King
House prices are through the roof here in VA as well. Lumber sucks. I was building a deck last year and it was about $4500. This year - $12k. And that's with a slight change to the design that requires less materials. Going with composite boards is only $14k, last year it was $11k. It's mind boggling how much lumber shot up. I may start listing the plywood sheets I have in the garage
@SamDoe1 - if it's in production, maybe. But as mentioned above, production is trickling out at this point. Even the A6 Allroad is a 4 month wait. Last summer was definitely the time to buy new; discounts were plentiful and rates/incentives were fantastic. The standard discount on the X3M Comp was something like $5500 and .9% financing. Now it's 1.9% and no cash discount.
@SamDoe1 - if it's in production, maybe. But as mentioned above, production is trickling out at this point. Even the A6 Allroad is a 4 month wait. Last summer was definitely the time to buy new; discounts were plentiful and rates/incentives were fantastic. The standard discount on the X3M Comp was something like $5500 and .9% financing. Now it's 1.9% and no cash discount.
You're absolutely right though, last summer would have been the perfect time to grab a X3M. Unfortunately with all the uncertainty in the world and job market I couldn't justify doing anything about it. Also, baby on the way didn't make it easy either.
If the car is in production it should probably be done by now and ready to ship here. With him being on the west coast it takes longer anyway but I guess we'll see what happens.
In regards to lumber prices, I should just sell my reserve plywood and 2x4's to pay for the Tesla...
Last edited by SamDoe1; 05-12-2021 at 08:26 AM.
Team Owner
All these started when Evergreen cockblocked everyone in that tiny opening.
But yah we now finally start seeing the aftermath of 2020 Pandemics, Trade wars and Tech wars? Semi conductor wars?
I got plenty of wood.
But yah we now finally start seeing the aftermath of 2020 Pandemics, Trade wars and Tech wars? Semi conductor wars?
I got plenty of wood.
Team Owner
M4 Comp fast.
Taycan Turbo S faster
Tuned B58 M240i????? 6mt too??
Taycan Turbo S faster
Tuned B58 M240i????? 6mt too??
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ttribe (05-13-2021)
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Is this a RS6 Avant or a RSQ8?
Moderator
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/a-n...and-6-pistons/
We love ourselves an unusual engine here at CT, regardless of the intended application. That’s why a few weeks back we took a look at the world’s first V12 outboard engine, and today, we want to talk about something designed to propel a lorry.
It’s no ordinary power plant, however - this unit from Achates Power is one that sounds increasingly obscure the more you read the description. It’s a 10.6-litre, two-stroke, three-cylinder, six-piston diesel engine. You read that correctly - six pistons in three cylinders since this is an opposed-piston engine.
Unlike a horizontally-opposed ‘boxer’ engine, which mounts the pistons pointing outwards at 180 degrees in separate cylinders, an opposed engine involves a pair of pistons facing each other and sharing a cylinder. Each piston very nearly meets in the middle at top dead centre, at which point ignition sends both back to bottom dead centre. Two crankshafts at either end are linked via a set of gears, providing power to the transmission.
In theory, this is great. Normally, a load of energy is wasted through the cylinder head, but in an opposed-piston engine, it’s shared between the pistons with more minimal losses. Instead of a cylinder head, there are gaps on one side of the engine for exhaust gas flow and some at the opposite end for intake air. Ditching the head also means fewer moving parts, potentially increasing reliability and decreasing manufacturing costs.
This isn’t a new concept - two-stroke opposed-piston engines were about years ago, but it’s only now that a comeback has been proposed. Achates’ ‘OP’ engine isn’t just an idea, either. A 2.7-litre prototype powering a Ford F-150 pick-up laid the groundwork, and from July in California, Walmart will be testing the 10.6-litre version in a Peterbilt 579. John T. Walton, the late Walmart heir, co-founded Achates with physicist James Lemke in 2004.
One inevitable downside of stacking pistons on top of each other is how tall the package ends up being, but according to Achates, this won’t be much of an issue in big Class 8 trucks. All being well, the OP will be a cost-effective alternative to upgrading existing 13 and 15-litre four-stroke engines for stringent Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) rules due to come into force in 2027.
It was announced late last year that the OP will comply with the new regulations. Currently, Achates says its testing has shown a seven per cent drop in CO2 emissions and a whopping 96 per cent NOx reduction compared to a conventional lorry engine. Despite this, the 10.6-litre engine used in Walmart’s demonstration vehicle is good for around 400bhp and 1674lb ft of torque.
Fully electric lorries, of course, would be greener still, but given the hurdles there in terms of range/battery technology, something like the OP could be the perfect interim solution. It’ll be fascinating to see how this pans out.
It’s no ordinary power plant, however - this unit from Achates Power is one that sounds increasingly obscure the more you read the description. It’s a 10.6-litre, two-stroke, three-cylinder, six-piston diesel engine. You read that correctly - six pistons in three cylinders since this is an opposed-piston engine.
Unlike a horizontally-opposed ‘boxer’ engine, which mounts the pistons pointing outwards at 180 degrees in separate cylinders, an opposed engine involves a pair of pistons facing each other and sharing a cylinder. Each piston very nearly meets in the middle at top dead centre, at which point ignition sends both back to bottom dead centre. Two crankshafts at either end are linked via a set of gears, providing power to the transmission.
In theory, this is great. Normally, a load of energy is wasted through the cylinder head, but in an opposed-piston engine, it’s shared between the pistons with more minimal losses. Instead of a cylinder head, there are gaps on one side of the engine for exhaust gas flow and some at the opposite end for intake air. Ditching the head also means fewer moving parts, potentially increasing reliability and decreasing manufacturing costs.
This isn’t a new concept - two-stroke opposed-piston engines were about years ago, but it’s only now that a comeback has been proposed. Achates’ ‘OP’ engine isn’t just an idea, either. A 2.7-litre prototype powering a Ford F-150 pick-up laid the groundwork, and from July in California, Walmart will be testing the 10.6-litre version in a Peterbilt 579. John T. Walton, the late Walmart heir, co-founded Achates with physicist James Lemke in 2004.
One inevitable downside of stacking pistons on top of each other is how tall the package ends up being, but according to Achates, this won’t be much of an issue in big Class 8 trucks. All being well, the OP will be a cost-effective alternative to upgrading existing 13 and 15-litre four-stroke engines for stringent Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) rules due to come into force in 2027.
It was announced late last year that the OP will comply with the new regulations. Currently, Achates says its testing has shown a seven per cent drop in CO2 emissions and a whopping 96 per cent NOx reduction compared to a conventional lorry engine. Despite this, the 10.6-litre engine used in Walmart’s demonstration vehicle is good for around 400bhp and 1674lb ft of torque.
Fully electric lorries, of course, would be greener still, but given the hurdles there in terms of range/battery technology, something like the OP could be the perfect interim solution. It’ll be fascinating to see how this pans out.
Team Owner
Give you an idea . It has been 2 weeks since the start of the production, or at least according to what they say.
But with lack of ships, containers, truck drivers, and those hundreds of ships waiting outside of Long Beach port, I would be very surprised if it arrives on time.
But with lack of ships, containers, truck drivers, and those hundreds of ships waiting outside of Long Beach port, I would be very surprised if it arrives on time.
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Moderator
https://www.motor1.com/news/511812/n...ll-axes-squat/
We’d wager 'Carolina Squat' is a relatively new term in the automotive space. Inspired by the long-travel suspension from Baja Trophy Trucks, the trend involves truck owners lifting the front suspension and lowering the rear. It provides the same squat that desert racers use to offer extra compliance during aggressive suspension compressions, allowing the rear wheels to strike first after a jump.
North Carolina recently introduced a bill to put an end to the peculiar trend. It prohibits elevating the front suspension more than three inches while at the same time lowering the rear by more than two inches. The exact reasoning behind the bill is unknown, but we’d wager that visibility and headlight angle played a role in the decision.
Despite being called the Carolina Squat, the trend actually originated on the Baja California Peninsula, where races like the Baja 1000 take place. However, unlike those high-performance offroad racers, the latest trend is highly impractical for road vehicles. Aside from the obvious safety concerns, road-going vehicles don’t have to navigate gnarly bumps at over 100 miles per hour.
Aside from not having nearly as much suspension travel, it’s important to note that none of the current factory high-performance trucks come with any squat. Hot rods like the F-150 Raptor and Ram TRX come with the same ride height at both ends – we’ve also seen both trucks successfully take impressive jumps without any issues.
A Reddit feed about the trend shows that there have been multiple incidents where Carolina Squatters have rear ended stationary vehicles that they simply couldn’t see. Details remain sparse, but it looks like the trend gained steam after taking Instagram by storm.
North Carolina recently introduced a bill to put an end to the peculiar trend. It prohibits elevating the front suspension more than three inches while at the same time lowering the rear by more than two inches. The exact reasoning behind the bill is unknown, but we’d wager that visibility and headlight angle played a role in the decision.
Despite being called the Carolina Squat, the trend actually originated on the Baja California Peninsula, where races like the Baja 1000 take place. However, unlike those high-performance offroad racers, the latest trend is highly impractical for road vehicles. Aside from the obvious safety concerns, road-going vehicles don’t have to navigate gnarly bumps at over 100 miles per hour.
Aside from not having nearly as much suspension travel, it’s important to note that none of the current factory high-performance trucks come with any squat. Hot rods like the F-150 Raptor and Ram TRX come with the same ride height at both ends – we’ve also seen both trucks successfully take impressive jumps without any issues.
A Reddit feed about the trend shows that there have been multiple incidents where Carolina Squatters have rear ended stationary vehicles that they simply couldn’t see. Details remain sparse, but it looks like the trend gained steam after taking Instagram by storm.
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ttribe (06-04-2021)
2024 Honda Civic Type R
I see BMW is offering 0.9% financing on many models, including the M3.
And I built one again and see that inventory is starting to arrive at dealers.
It's making me think... I might send an email to the local dealers to see what they'll do.
I'm actually getting over the front end look. At least when looking online. I built a Portimao Blue Metallic but I think that Brooklyn Grey Metallic looks really nice as well.
And I built one again and see that inventory is starting to arrive at dealers.
It's making me think... I might send an email to the local dealers to see what they'll do.
I'm actually getting over the front end look. At least when looking online. I built a Portimao Blue Metallic but I think that Brooklyn Grey Metallic looks really nice as well.
Team Owner
I see BMW is offering 0.9% financing on many models, including the M3.
And I built one again and see that inventory is starting to arrive at dealers.
It's making me think... I might send an email to the local dealers to see what they'll do.
I'm actually getting over the front end look. At least when looking online. I built a Portimao Blue Metallic but I think that Brooklyn Grey Metallic looks really nice as well.
And I built one again and see that inventory is starting to arrive at dealers.
It's making me think... I might send an email to the local dealers to see what they'll do.
I'm actually getting over the front end look. At least when looking online. I built a Portimao Blue Metallic but I think that Brooklyn Grey Metallic looks really nice as well.
Team Owner
Jeremy never disappoint
Only if the front end is not so ... sigh..
Only if the front end is not so ... sigh..
The Clarkson Review: BMW M3 Competition
Thanks to BMW, I’ve been having a field day
Jeremy Clarkson
Sunday April 04 2021, 12.01am BST, The Sunday Times
It makes me sad when people say that electrical cars can be fun, because of course they can’t. Take away the sound of internal combustion and the vibration and the weird torque characteristics, and you’re left with something that’s not even on nodding terms with the concept of fun.
Sure, an electrical car can be very fast but so what? For thrills, I’d rather do a hundred in a Sopwith Camel than five hundred in a Boeing 777. I’d rather do twenty knots on a jet ski than thirty on a cruise liner.
And then there’s this: a microwave oven will bake a potato in five minutes and that’s very clever, but the end result will be nowhere near as satisfying as something that’s been in the Aga for two hours.
There are many people in my line of work who think that electrical cars can be enjoyed by enthusiasts just as much as those that use petrol to move about. They are wrong. Because when we are forced by law to drive around in glorified milk floats, we will simply buy whatever gives us the greatest range or the best value. Cars will become wheeled fridge freezers. Tools. And the spirit of the car, its core, will be dead.
Don’t believe me? OK, watch that car chase in Bullittwith the sound turned off.
And there’s more. Last weekend, an old mate who runs a company called Prodrive called round with a car he’d made. Financed by the Bahraini royal family and built in Banbury, it was a huge and ungainly looking thing that had come fifth in this year’s Dakar rally. Next year it will probably win it, and after that there will be versions for the army and, better still, models you can buy. If you have £750,000 lying around. And a desert to use it in. I don’t have a desert but I do have a farm and so last Saturday I was to be found several feet in the air going “yeehah” a lot.
Powered by the same turbocharged V6 they use in the Ford GT, it’s not the fastest car in the world, but it will happily sit at 112mph, all day, while going across Saudi Arabia’s barren and bumpy interior. So it can easily soak up the worst bits of Oxfordshire and it did, while sideways and with a fat man in the driver’s seat, grinning.
Doubtless I was in contravention of many soil compaction regulations, but it was just so liberating to be out there power sliding round the winter wheat in an orgy of free thinking and optimism and fun. To be driving for the sheer joy of driving. And changing gear for the aural reward.
A millennial or a snowflake would claim, if they saw this enormous monster tearing by, that I was a climate change denier. And there’d be no point explaining that a new version designed to run on hydrogen is in the pipeline because they wouldn’t listen. They don’t listen. Because it’s their right to live in a world where everyone agrees with everyone else and nothing noisy ever happens.
All of which brings me on to the new BMW M3 Competition. There must be a sense in the back rooms of the world’s car companies that there’s no point going the extra mile in the development of superfast sports saloons because the end is nigh. It’d be like completely reworking a Nigel Gresley Pacific, just before the Deltic came along.*
In fact we can already see the writing on the wall because BMW will not be selling the ordinary M3 in Britain, just the “Competition” version. And no manual gearbox is on offer either. It seems then that the new M3 is a teatime bun, just something to fill a gap until the reaper arrives.
They haven’t even been very sensible with the price. Someone at a meeting just went “seventy-five grand?” And everyone just nodded and went back to skimming through TikTok.
But wait, what’s this? The twin-turbocharged straight-six engine is broadly the same as it was but almost all of the internals are bigger and stronger and more racy. This means 60 more horsepowers than you got in the old model, and 73 more torques.
There’s a whole new styling direction too, with a Pontiac-style nose and a grille so large you could go on holiday in it. The whole car’s bigger too, noticeably so, but the essence of M3 is still very much in evidence. There’s a sense that the body has been stretched to fit over the wheels, which incidentally are now bigger at the back than they are at the front. This, you start to realise, is not a coffee-break car that was half-heartedly thrown together on the back of a *** packet.
And then you step inside, where you are greeted with new seats — the best I’ve ever sat in. They’re even better than the ones in a Renault Fuego turbo. And a whole new dash that does all sorts of new things. Like, for example, you can set the rules for your air conditioning system. And how German is that.
There is also a device that measures and then rates your drift. Seriously, you power-slide round a bend and it will give you marks. Not sure this sort of thing is, or should be, legal, but it’s a hoot to know it’s there. And a hoot to know that absolutely every single person who uses it will — moments after saying to their passenger “Right, watch this” — definitely get a ride in an air ambulance.
That’s the thing about skidding on purpose. You can get away with it once, or twice, or maybe even two hundred times. But eventually you’re going out in a blaze of splintering sounds and swear words.
It may, however, be five hundred times in the M3 because, ooh, this is a fine-handling car. I didn’t much care for the steering set-up on the previous model — it worked well only in “comfort” mode — but much work has been done in the new version and it’s sublime. As is the grip. And what happens when that grip is breached.
Maybe, just maybe, the gearbox is slower than the old flappy paddle manual but you have to be paying attention to notice. The thing about five hundred horsepower, though, is it has the ability to mask these things. And it does. Beautifully.
This is one of those cars, like the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio, that just glides from corner to corner on what feels like a wave of telepathy and poise and pit-of-the-stomach excitement. It’s balletic.
And comforting, because it means that BMW’s engineers are not going to sit through their final days shrugging and reminiscing. They want to go out in a blaze of glory. We can only hope other carmakers do the same thing, and that before they’re all made to work for Zanussi’s automotive division making stuff to fill the windows at Currys, they remind us all why it was they wanted to be car engineers in the first place.
*Only James May would understand this
Write to us at driving@sunday-times.co.uk or Driving, The Sunday Times, 1 London Bridge Street, London SE1 9GF
Visit driving.co.uk for daily news, reviews, videos, buying guides and advice
Thanks to BMW, I’ve been having a field day
Jeremy Clarkson
Sunday April 04 2021, 12.01am BST, The Sunday Times
It makes me sad when people say that electrical cars can be fun, because of course they can’t. Take away the sound of internal combustion and the vibration and the weird torque characteristics, and you’re left with something that’s not even on nodding terms with the concept of fun.
Sure, an electrical car can be very fast but so what? For thrills, I’d rather do a hundred in a Sopwith Camel than five hundred in a Boeing 777. I’d rather do twenty knots on a jet ski than thirty on a cruise liner.
And then there’s this: a microwave oven will bake a potato in five minutes and that’s very clever, but the end result will be nowhere near as satisfying as something that’s been in the Aga for two hours.
There are many people in my line of work who think that electrical cars can be enjoyed by enthusiasts just as much as those that use petrol to move about. They are wrong. Because when we are forced by law to drive around in glorified milk floats, we will simply buy whatever gives us the greatest range or the best value. Cars will become wheeled fridge freezers. Tools. And the spirit of the car, its core, will be dead.
Don’t believe me? OK, watch that car chase in Bullittwith the sound turned off.
And there’s more. Last weekend, an old mate who runs a company called Prodrive called round with a car he’d made. Financed by the Bahraini royal family and built in Banbury, it was a huge and ungainly looking thing that had come fifth in this year’s Dakar rally. Next year it will probably win it, and after that there will be versions for the army and, better still, models you can buy. If you have £750,000 lying around. And a desert to use it in. I don’t have a desert but I do have a farm and so last Saturday I was to be found several feet in the air going “yeehah” a lot.
Powered by the same turbocharged V6 they use in the Ford GT, it’s not the fastest car in the world, but it will happily sit at 112mph, all day, while going across Saudi Arabia’s barren and bumpy interior. So it can easily soak up the worst bits of Oxfordshire and it did, while sideways and with a fat man in the driver’s seat, grinning.
Doubtless I was in contravention of many soil compaction regulations, but it was just so liberating to be out there power sliding round the winter wheat in an orgy of free thinking and optimism and fun. To be driving for the sheer joy of driving. And changing gear for the aural reward.
A millennial or a snowflake would claim, if they saw this enormous monster tearing by, that I was a climate change denier. And there’d be no point explaining that a new version designed to run on hydrogen is in the pipeline because they wouldn’t listen. They don’t listen. Because it’s their right to live in a world where everyone agrees with everyone else and nothing noisy ever happens.
All of which brings me on to the new BMW M3 Competition. There must be a sense in the back rooms of the world’s car companies that there’s no point going the extra mile in the development of superfast sports saloons because the end is nigh. It’d be like completely reworking a Nigel Gresley Pacific, just before the Deltic came along.*
In fact we can already see the writing on the wall because BMW will not be selling the ordinary M3 in Britain, just the “Competition” version. And no manual gearbox is on offer either. It seems then that the new M3 is a teatime bun, just something to fill a gap until the reaper arrives.
They haven’t even been very sensible with the price. Someone at a meeting just went “seventy-five grand?” And everyone just nodded and went back to skimming through TikTok.
But wait, what’s this? The twin-turbocharged straight-six engine is broadly the same as it was but almost all of the internals are bigger and stronger and more racy. This means 60 more horsepowers than you got in the old model, and 73 more torques.
There’s a whole new styling direction too, with a Pontiac-style nose and a grille so large you could go on holiday in it. The whole car’s bigger too, noticeably so, but the essence of M3 is still very much in evidence. There’s a sense that the body has been stretched to fit over the wheels, which incidentally are now bigger at the back than they are at the front. This, you start to realise, is not a coffee-break car that was half-heartedly thrown together on the back of a *** packet.
And then you step inside, where you are greeted with new seats — the best I’ve ever sat in. They’re even better than the ones in a Renault Fuego turbo. And a whole new dash that does all sorts of new things. Like, for example, you can set the rules for your air conditioning system. And how German is that.
There is also a device that measures and then rates your drift. Seriously, you power-slide round a bend and it will give you marks. Not sure this sort of thing is, or should be, legal, but it’s a hoot to know it’s there. And a hoot to know that absolutely every single person who uses it will — moments after saying to their passenger “Right, watch this” — definitely get a ride in an air ambulance.
That’s the thing about skidding on purpose. You can get away with it once, or twice, or maybe even two hundred times. But eventually you’re going out in a blaze of splintering sounds and swear words.
It may, however, be five hundred times in the M3 because, ooh, this is a fine-handling car. I didn’t much care for the steering set-up on the previous model — it worked well only in “comfort” mode — but much work has been done in the new version and it’s sublime. As is the grip. And what happens when that grip is breached.
Maybe, just maybe, the gearbox is slower than the old flappy paddle manual but you have to be paying attention to notice. The thing about five hundred horsepower, though, is it has the ability to mask these things. And it does. Beautifully.
This is one of those cars, like the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio, that just glides from corner to corner on what feels like a wave of telepathy and poise and pit-of-the-stomach excitement. It’s balletic.
And comforting, because it means that BMW’s engineers are not going to sit through their final days shrugging and reminiscing. They want to go out in a blaze of glory. We can only hope other carmakers do the same thing, and that before they’re all made to work for Zanussi’s automotive division making stuff to fill the windows at Currys, they remind us all why it was they wanted to be car engineers in the first place.
*Only James May would understand this
Write to us at driving@sunday-times.co.uk or Driving, The Sunday Times, 1 London Bridge Street, London SE1 9GF
Visit driving.co.uk for daily news, reviews, videos, buying guides and advice
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