ChodTheWacko

Is that really all it is? What if you already shoot RAW? You don't get to use all 14 bits when you convert? If so, that's lame.

ChodTheWacko

Okay, Canon has my attention now.
Note I am looking to upgrade from a 20d.

things I am very interested in:
14 bits/channel - should improve Dynamic range
Higlight tone priority: 1 stop increase in DR? Note 1DMark III has this - I'm
waiting to see how good this is. ANY increase in DR is most welcome, though.
Silent mode - The 20D is LOUD. I was annoying the hell out of someone at a church wedding.
Improved AF - Servo, anyone?
Changeable focus screens - I've actually swapped out the one in my 20D for the Haoda screen (which I like a lot)
ISO in viewfinder. ('bout freakin' time)

Things that are a nice bump up, but not enough to seal the deal:
10 MP, higher fps, bigger buffer.
Live View - I don't see myself using this much at all. But it's practical now with the 'autofocus button', which pops the mirror down, focuses, and pops up. (Hope you aren't AF hunting though!). People who want Live view usually don't realize how much heavier a camera feels when you try to hold it away from your body.


stuff I don't have nor care to have:
Sensor cleaning - it was on the 30d, still not interested. I've never had dust issues, and I change lenses a LOT. (I change a very specfic way though).

Larger LCD - I'll take a better Image magnification any day of the week. I'd love 100% zoom at focus point, a bit like the SD800 does.
sRAW - CF is CHEAP.


Stuff I don't see and wish/hope they have:
Larger Viewfinder Magnification!!!! D200 envy.

jupitersolo

30D does not have.

wndrlst

^Maybe thinking of the XTi...

ChodTheWacko

Bah, shows how much I know:

The 1D Mark III digitizes to 14 bits, allowing 16,384 levels. At first blush, this would seem to be about dynamic range, but it really isn't: Dynamic range is set by the noise floor of the overall system and the maximum signal level that can be captured by each pixel, not by how many bits your digitizer has.

Wow, if there's not much DR improvement, that really kills my motivation to upgrade.
Not sure I'll do it just for AF. Less noise is nice, but DR is more of an issue for me than noise is actually. (And DR goes down as you increase ISO).

We'll see how this highlight recovery thing works. I don't see why you can't shoot in RAW and do the same thing - it must store information differently, and have some sort of side effect that they don't make it the default.

wndrlst

I'm still wondering why it's a custom function, rather than something just integrated into the operation of the camera. Seems like there must be a trade-off to having it active, otherwise it wouldn't be selectable?

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

I've been holding off on a DSLR purchase to see the 40D specs. Looks promising.

And with a new job starting in the next few weeks I can afford one right away.

Dan Martin

Smoother gradiations give you more ability to torture the image in photoshop without introducing posterization (banding). Although the noise floor and maximum brightness may not be increased, you can expand the dynamic range in post at the expense of some tonal smoothness.

The first thing you have to understand when trying to understand Highlight Tone Priority is that RAW is not truly RAW data. There is some preprocessing done before a RAW file is saved. Although Canon is keeping quiet about the inner workings of Highlight Tone Priority, it seems that it works by underexposing an ISO 100 shot by doubling the correct shutter speed, then pushing the image to the proper exposure while applying a tone curve that preserves the highlights. The added bit depth gives them this flexibility.

The reason they don't let you select ISO 100 when using this mode is they would need to be able to shoot at ISO 50 for the same trick to work. Of course, ISO 50 is an extended sensitivity, so they can't use it. Only if Canon developed a sensor with a native ISO 50 would they be able to offer Highlight Tone Priority to ISO 100.

You can mimic this technique yourself with an underexposed RAW image. Just shoot at ISO 100 at a one stop faster shutter speed. Convert the image into Photoshop as a 16-bit file, then apply a curve that exposes everything as you see fit.

Billiam

On a basic level, Highlight Tone Priority sounds like the digital equivalent of push processing a fine grained film.

mg7726

40D is officially 'official', canon has answered many of the missing requests (better AF, bigger viewfinder, bigger lcd, weather sealed, auto ISO, etc.) except the extra button for MLU outside.

note the body-only price is actually less then what the 30D listed when it came out. you people are getting much more for less - it's going to be a great camera.

dom

I've known the specs for a few weeks now but I saw nothing about weather sealing on the 40D. Nice...

jupitersolo

Already #3 on amazon.com best sellers for cameras. I might have helped it. Canon's website says early Sept release.

http://www.usa.canon.com/html/templa...70820_40d.html

Canon has also released information for about 3 or 4 new point and shoots.

dom

G series has returned to RAW with the G9.

waTSX

That would be sweet.

ChodTheWacko

Okay, so If I already expose to preserve highlights, then I'm already doing this.
Although admittedly, it's a pain in the ass to do manually. (basically: *click* - oops, blown highlights, adjust EV, *click* - argh; repeat)

- Frank

ChodTheWacko

YEAH! It's even bigger than the D200!
Viewfinder magnification comparison:
20d/30d: .9
D200: .94
40d: .95

Weather sealing is a big surprise actually, I thought that would only be
on the 1 Series. They are already fairly weather resistant already.

- Frank

Mizouse

thats it, time to sell my XTi

srika

sRAW looks promising on the 1DsMkIII.. hehe.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

So the 40D body only price is ~$1300?

ChodTheWacko

Food for thought:

In the coming months, now the debate will be: XTi, or 40D? Is the 40D worth the price difference now? For the 30D it was almost always an easy 'no'. I think the 40D is probably still a 'no' for most.

For those of you upgrading, I'm curious what you are upgrading for. Are you really hitting a limit with the XTi that warrants an upgrade? Or is there something else that will improve your picture quality? Live view, I'm guessing?

Side note: Weather sealing of the body means not much if your lens isn't
weather sealed as well.

- Frank

Ashburner

For someone new to DSLR's, do you guys think the 40D would be too advanced for me or should I stick to buying an XTi? Money is not an issue.

srika

if money's not an issue, you should get the 1DsMkIII.. hell, get 2, and give me one. thx "in advance".. actually I would even settle for a regular 1DMkIII..

dom

Not sure what XTi's are selling for in the US but if $1299 or $1399 with a lens sounds reasonable to you than get the 40D. Just remember that you'll be spending much more money on lenses either way you go.

Nikon is set to release the D200 replacement and a 1D Mrk III competitor (Full Frame?) on Thursday so things are heating up....

Mizouse

well for me, the reason why id upgrade to the 40D is the bigger viewfinder, the AF being better, the faster fps, and better performance i suppose with higher ISO.

and the smallness of the XTi is starting to become uncomfortable for me

jupitersolo

If you haven't tried yet, get a XTi in your hands, then a 30D (same size as 40D) which one feels better. For me, the the XTi is too damn small. I don't think the 40D will be too much camera, you're pretty smart, you'll figure it out.

Mizouse

well.. my main gripe that i feel canon still needs to fix is the darn battery meter. would be nice if it had a percentage instead of just a full bar, half a bar, flashing half bar, and then a flashing empty bar.

ChodTheWacko

Actually, I think the 40D will be easier to use than the XTi.
The double dials & extra buttons really help streamline the interface.

Side note: Very glad to see they didn't get rid of the 2nd LCD on the 40D.

I wonder how many of these new features get put into the XTi?

- Frank

danny25

my XT is starting to feel too small. I suppose I could get the battery grip, but I'd rather have a 40D.

wndrlst

For me, I'd be coming from the XT, so would pick up quite a bit more than those coming from the XTi. More pixels (and sounds like better pixels! ), >double the frame rate, 4x the buffer, larger/brighter view-finder, improved(?) AF, spot-meter, and it sounds like it will have a better noise profile.

Obviously, there are even more upgrades, but those are the ones that seriously appeal to me. I think they're worth it. Yes, I find myself limited by the XT's capabilities in all of the above from time to time.

Re: the weather sealing. Very true. It's a shame to me that Cannon won't weather seal any of their EF-S lenses. L lenses are lovely and all, but so often the focal lengths of the zooms are less than ideal for the cropped sensors. I'm perfectly happy to purchase the EF-S lenses from an optics standpoint, but I really wish they'd build them like the L's. Bah.

Dan Martin

Just to clear things up, the 40D is not weather sealed. The CF and batery doors are weather sealed to help keep dust out, but the buttons and seams are not. It's an improvement over stock, but don't start using it in the rain expecting it to be ok.

By the way, even the best weather sealed bodies can still leak in certain conditions. If you are going to shoot in the rain, it's best to bring a cover with you. I make my own ghetto setup out of a clear garbage bag with a few holes cut out, but Kata makes a some nice affordable units too.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

I have big hands and the XT/XTi feel very awkward in my grip. I was saving up for a 30D but now that the specs on the 40D are out I think I'll jump up to something new.

swong

Just a note: When you turn on highlight tone prority, your available shot buffer will decrease. My camera drop from 20 RAW to 17 RAW for the buffer just by turning on the hightlight tone prority. Just want you guys to know that the feature has some draw back. Now I leave that off 99% of the time.

wndrlst

Channeling Dire Straights...
I want my Foortyyyy Deeee!

dom

Yup, dpreview didn't initially mention that. I guess its better than nothing and appeases some people but strangely doesn't match the D200's full weather sealed body.

waTSX

Isn't the D200 about $400 more?

dom

About $200 more. D200 sells for $1499 at most places. I guess going full weather sealed would have cost too much.

I'm kinda surprised that a weather sealed body isn't a big issue for most of you....

Dan Martin

You still can't shoot in the rain with a weather sealed body, it just gives you some protection if you get some light spray. I guess if it meant that I could shoot in all conditions without additional protection, then it would be a bigger deal for me. But for less than a $100, you can get a nice rain jacket for your camera and lens that lets you shoot in a downpour.

wndrlst

It's nice that it's weather resistant...takes a little stress off. Although, my XT got more than a little damp in the constant Oregon drizzle, and seems to have survived. Truly weather sealed would be nice, but not nice enough to trade all my lenses in for Nikkors. As Dan said, I can pick up a little jacket.

I've shot with a D200, though...nice camera! If the D40 stacks up, I'll be more than pleased.

waTSX

I've used my 20D plenty of times in light rain, while hiking, at races, etc, and never had any issues. Granted I'm not soaking it, but as long as you protect it somewhat and keep it wiped down, it seems to be okay. Usually, when there's a driving rainstorm, I'm not shooting anyway. If I was going to, I'd get something like Dan suggested.

That said, I certainly wouldn't turn down weather sealing if it was offered, but it's not on Canon camera bodies I'm shopping.

ChodTheWacko

I forgot where I read it - luminous landscape or something, but there was a teacher discussing one of his photo trips he was teaching. At one point it started to rain a bit, and various students started packing up their cameras and heading to shelter.

The teacher just said, "You will be very surprised what kind of weather your camera can handle", and kept shooting. Students gradually came out and they were fine too.

Weather sealing is not a concern at all for me.
Here's the deal: If you are shooting in conditions so bad your camera is at risk, the question is: Am I actually getting decent pictures?

One drop of water on your camera body isn't going to do much. One drop of water landing on the middle of your lens, however, will ruin every shot till you clean it off. That will be your main concern.

I would however, like a splash proof camera, for canoeing trips or so.
I'm not so sure that's the same thing.