Tesla: Development and Technology News
01-12-2022, 10:43 PM
#1401
used Toyota RAV4 goes to $62K. Have you heared this thing before that official Toyota factory refurbish old Toyotas. this how bad the situation with parts. cannot make new. rebuilt the old one..
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...-2befaef762a8/
$61,995
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...-2befaef762a8/
2021 Toyota RAV4 Prime XSE
958 mi.$61,995
Toyota to remanufacture cars up to three times in UK | Autocar
Burnaston, which builds the Toyota Corolla hatchback and estate, could help cars have even longer lives
Toyota to remanufacture cars up to three times in UK
Burnaston, which builds the Toyota Corolla hatchback and estate, could help cars have even longer lives
01-13-2022, 09:13 AM
#1402
Ex-OEM King
Lol. The delusions are fantastic! News flash...anyone who has EVER purchased an item from any store or outlet, either E or brick and mortar, has paid a profit to that establishment. Whether it's a loaf of bread, a light bulb or a TESLA you've paid a profit to the selling entity. 
How do you know Tesla is not taking ALL the profit already (wholesale + dealer margin)?
A M3P is already at $70k... $60k without FSD. Other than its EV acceleration it is not close to BMW or Mercedes's level on everything else.
So $60k is the "wholesale" price?
Or Model Y is $70k...does that sound like a wholesale price to you (What the manuf. sell to dealers)?
If you think those are the prices that Tesla would sell to dealers if they had one, then i call that BS.
How do we know if Tesla is not slapping a 50% markup and not even offering you the 25% coupon? and you cant even call it a deal of any sort because you can't even have the option to have a deal.
A M3P is already at $70k... $60k without FSD. Other than its EV acceleration it is not close to BMW or Mercedes's level on everything else.
So $60k is the "wholesale" price?
Or Model Y is $70k...does that sound like a wholesale price to you (What the manuf. sell to dealers)?
If you think those are the prices that Tesla would sell to dealers if they had one, then i call that BS.
How do we know if Tesla is not slapping a 50% markup and not even offering you the 25% coupon? and you cant even call it a deal of any sort because you can't even have the option to have a deal.
I have yet to hear people complaint about the concept of Black Friday sales from the malls, amazon or another retailers....
In the perfect world, all of them should be eliminated and we buy from the manuf. directly. That means we dont need to have any kind of sales anymore. It is bottom price for everyone everyday.
In the perfect world, all of them should be eliminated and we buy from the manuf. directly. That means we dont need to have any kind of sales anymore. It is bottom price for everyone everyday.
) a year they trade margin for volume. They still make up the difference by selling more rather than selling high. I bet BF isn't a loss leader for anyone.The difference is that kind of sale cannot be sustained for a whole year since people don't buy the same amount of crap in March as they do around the holidays.
This is from 2021
https://english.hani.co.kr/arti/engl...s/1016533.html
So please stop pretending Tesla is giving you guys a deal by NOT offering any possibility to get discount because they dont have dealerships.
1 thing for sure, Tesla did not give you guys the "discount" from not having any dealerships. If they did, their profit margin will be around the same as everyone else.
https://english.hani.co.kr/arti/engl...s/1016533.html
So please stop pretending Tesla is giving you guys a deal by NOT offering any possibility to get discount because they dont have dealerships.
1 thing for sure, Tesla did not give you guys the "discount" from not having any dealerships. If they did, their profit margin will be around the same as everyone else.
I guess you guys think I'm advocating for dealerships. I'm not. But the fantasy of "buying direct" and not paying profits for a car is absurd.
Dealerships provide places of employment for many people. I don't discourage people having jobs.
The video basically says that 8% is the average margin made by mfgr. and he qualifies this in some detail.
Dealerships provide places of employment for many people. I don't discourage people having jobs.
The video basically says that 8% is the average margin made by mfgr. and he qualifies this in some detail.
None of us here is advocating for dealerships, They are called stealerships for a reason. I personally wanna burn down some of the dealerships i have dealt with before.
But what is the realistic alternatives right now?
I guess the issue is, if the dealerships do not exist, then who gets that 5,10,15% profit? The manuf. or the end users?
Because as of right now, i think Tesla is keeping everything and some. So how is that better?
At least with dealership, we could at least try to get some of that 5,10,15% back.
But what is the realistic alternatives right now?
I guess the issue is, if the dealerships do not exist, then who gets that 5,10,15% profit? The manuf. or the end users?
Because as of right now, i think Tesla is keeping everything and some. So how is that better?
At least with dealership, we could at least try to get some of that 5,10,15% back.
There are always 2 sides of a coin.
You say no 2 people could get the same deal. Probably true. But IMO, that is still better than both of them paying full MSRP or whatever the manuf wants you to pay.
Sam said this. That is under the assumption that Tesla is at the price it is because it does not have dealership, so they have passed on the savings to the customers. If Tesla adds dealerships, then MSRP will go up.
Maybe, Maybe not, but as of right now Tesla definitely did not pass any savings to the customer from not having any dealerships at 30% profit margin per car sold.
You say no 2 people could get the same deal. Probably true. But IMO, that is still better than both of them paying full MSRP or whatever the manuf wants you to pay.
Sam said this. That is under the assumption that Tesla is at the price it is because it does not have dealership, so they have passed on the savings to the customers. If Tesla adds dealerships, then MSRP will go up.
Maybe, Maybe not, but as of right now Tesla definitely did not pass any savings to the customer from not having any dealerships at 30% profit margin per car sold.
It is called trying to be objective. not something a wannabe fanboy would understand.
If removing dealerships mean better price for consumers i am all for it. But i have my doubts, seeing what Tesla has been doing. But that does not mean i agree with many of their practices.
:shocking:
I also bash BMW all the time, yet i am still buying them... i am sure you dont understand that either.
and when you use your baseless assumption as some kind of absolute truth, it will not help your case either.
BTW: where is my Robotaxi at?
Chinese Auto makers? It took Koreans about 3 decades to really enter the US mainstream market. You most likely will not see Chinese cars in the US as mainstream cars in your life time.
Not even going to mention the politics that would prevent that from ever happening in the US.
If removing dealerships mean better price for consumers i am all for it. But i have my doubts, seeing what Tesla has been doing. But that does not mean i agree with many of their practices.
:shocking:I also bash BMW all the time, yet i am still buying them... i am sure you dont understand that either.
and when you use your baseless assumption as some kind of absolute truth, it will not help your case either.
BTW: where is my Robotaxi at?
Chinese Auto makers? It took Koreans about 3 decades to really enter the US mainstream market. You most likely will not see Chinese cars in the US as mainstream cars in your life time.
Not even going to mention the politics that would prevent that from ever happening in the US.
This guy has driven almost every ev that exists, yet Tesla’s software excellence and vertical integration keeps him coming back
https://twitter.com/itskyleconner/st...213864458?s=21
https://twitter.com/itskyleconner/st...213864458?s=21
01-13-2022, 09:57 AM
#1403
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
I'm all for giving him shit for his blind bias but if an e-scooter is literally all he needs or can afford to get around, there's no reason to dog him for that.
01-13-2022, 10:27 AM
#1404
Ex-OEM King
Also with the plethora of personal attacks that continue from him to me, I see no reason to stop.
01-13-2022, 11:08 AM
#1405
My first Avatar....
Originally Posted by SamDoe1
The difference is that I legally can still buy my new TV from Best Buy, Target, Costco, whatever OR I can buy it straight from Sony. The price is pretty similar but it has to be or else no one would buy it from a retailer so they have to sell it down close to what they bought it for. I cannot legally buy a car directly from BMW or Ford or anyone other than Tesla, Rivian, and Lucid right now...and that's only in certain states too.
Who tf is talking about the legality of buying anything? That has nothing to do with anything I'm saying.
Originally Posted by SamDoe1
Jobs would still be there. Still need people to staff the delivery centers and perform service. Just don't need the back room F&I asshats anymore.
Btw, I'd also bet that the muskrat mobiles bring far more than 8% per unit, to lord elon.
01-13-2022, 11:25 AM
#1406
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
01-13-2022, 11:51 AM
#1407
My first Avatar....
Oh, I see. Thank you Sir. 
01-13-2022, 11:55 AM
#1408
Ex-OEM King
You have to remember that the 8% is on top of the ~20% that the automaker already made. No one knows what the profit margin is for Lord Elon.
I always ask the F&I idiots why I should buy their car if an extended warranty is recommended and if I definitely need this warranty then I definitely don't want the car. Usually shuts them up but I would personally be fine replacing those idiots with a website.
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Comfy (01-13-2022)
01-13-2022, 11:58 AM
#1409
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
01-13-2022, 12:51 PM
#1410
Ex-OEM King
It is but I'll leave it with this. If the job is becoming obsolete, it's time for workers in that line of work to move on to newer things. Much like we expect coal miners to find other jobs as coal is phased out.
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Comfy (01-13-2022)
01-13-2022, 01:14 PM
#1411
Team Owner
If we cannot even remove NADA, then this whole discussion is pointless.
I understand you prefer something new, not the current dealership and not Tesla model either where they could do literally whatever they want. You want a 3rd model that you dont even know what it is yet.
It is more like a fantasy than a reality if no one even cares to remove NADA right now.
That goes back to what i was saying. The reality is there are only 2 models: dealerships and Tesla. As of right now, i still prefer dealership for many reasons i stated above.
When the 3rd option has a chance to become reality, then maybe i would like it as well.
01-13-2022, 09:58 PM
#1412
What are you smoking…? There is no third option as you expect. If all manufacturers are able to sell direct, that itself will create competition and stabilize the market price. The difference is that here the manufacturers have more margin to play around with to get market share.
Currently the profits have to be shared between manufacturers and dealerships. So one party cannot increase the price without the other party getting screwed if the consumer price has to remain same. The whole premise of MSRP is including the dealership profits. That’s the point you fail to understand. You seem to think that you got a smoking hot deal by getting 13% off MSRP. But you forgot the other 90% of customers who got shafted. How about everyone in the country got the same 13% off? Again that inflated MSRP is the problem. That line is an arbitrary one drawn in water.
Currently the profits have to be shared between manufacturers and dealerships. So one party cannot increase the price without the other party getting screwed if the consumer price has to remain same. The whole premise of MSRP is including the dealership profits. That’s the point you fail to understand. You seem to think that you got a smoking hot deal by getting 13% off MSRP. But you forgot the other 90% of customers who got shafted. How about everyone in the country got the same 13% off? Again that inflated MSRP is the problem. That line is an arbitrary one drawn in water.
Last edited by Comfy; 01-13-2022 at 10:00 PM.
01-13-2022, 10:09 PM
#1413
My first Avatar....
What are you smoking? You think your god elon, is giving his little chariots away? But because you pay what Joe d. Customer paid, you feel better.
01-14-2022, 08:44 AM
#1414
That’s only because no one else is making cars and selling them directly to consumers as good as Tesla. There’s no competition to Tesla.
The other compounding problem is that uncle Joe is planning to give EV rebates to vehicles costing up to $70-80k. I’m assuming the Tesla is gradually creeping up it’s prices towards that goal, just in case that bill gets finalized and passed.
Once these issues are addressed along with the supply chain shortages (which probably is a cover for the increase in prices anyways) the prices would dramatically come down to previous levels. But I’m wondering who’s going to give the real competition to Tesla.
I know they are coming…
The other compounding problem is that uncle Joe is planning to give EV rebates to vehicles costing up to $70-80k. I’m assuming the Tesla is gradually creeping up it’s prices towards that goal, just in case that bill gets finalized and passed.
Once these issues are addressed along with the supply chain shortages (which probably is a cover for the increase in prices anyways) the prices would dramatically come down to previous levels. But I’m wondering who’s going to give the real competition to Tesla.
I know they are coming…
01-14-2022, 09:22 AM
#1415
Ex-OEM King
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pttl (01-14-2022)
01-14-2022, 12:03 PM
#1416
Team Owner
01-14-2022, 05:15 PM
#1417
Not entirely true though. Buying TSLA has increased Elon’s net worth, right?
Also there’s a question of $100 for Cybertruck..
Also there’s a question of $100 for Cybertruck.
.
01-16-2022, 04:05 PM
#1418
Sanest Florida Man
Any other auto company securing deals directly with raw materials mining companies to be sure they have the supply they need?
https://twitter.com/vincent13031925/...29027074498566
https://twitter.com/vincent13031925/...29027074498566
Another raw material deal. Gm and ford are just gonna hope and pray there’s some leftover for them
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Comfy (01-16-2022)
01-16-2022, 09:09 PM
#1419
2025 is still a long way off. Plenty of time for the legacy to catch up, right?
01-19-2022, 05:39 AM
#1420
Race Director
Thread Starter
The AMD Ryzen processor (MCU3) in the new Model 3/Model Y, which accelerates the entire infotainment/navigation (just like in the Model S/Model X), affects the range of the cars.
Let's recall that the AMD Ryzen is now used instead of the Intel Atom (there will be no retrofits for already produced cars). It uses more power to increase computing power, which directly translates to higher energy consumption and slightly less range.
It's probably a very small decrease in range, but big enough that it requires updated range ratings and even customer confirmations (at least in some markets) that they agree on the reduced range.
Most recently, Teslascope shared info provided by a Model 3 buyer in Australia, who was asked whether he accepted less range - 22 km (14 miles) or 3.5% less:
"We have updated Model 3 vehicles to optimize the touch screen experience with our new car computer. This hardware change requires more power, resulting in a minor drop in range. Your Model 3 range is now 602 kilometers (WLTP), 22 kilometers less than originally communicated."
It has been noted that this agreement will not be required for all regions, since some countries have stricter consumer laws than others.
As we've noted before, we expect the percentage of vehicles with MCU3 to continue increasing.— Teslascope (@teslascope) January 17, 2022This should explain why recently we saw adjustments to the WLTP range rating in Europe, where the new Model 3 got a lower range.
Interestingly, the new Model Y received a higher range - which might be associated with a bigger battery (82 kWh instead of 77 kWh, according to reports) or other changes (more usable battery capacity or other changes that resulted in overall higher efficiency).
Here are the Tesla Model 3/Tesla Model Y WLTP range adjustments:
Let's recall that the AMD Ryzen is now used instead of the Intel Atom (there will be no retrofits for already produced cars). It uses more power to increase computing power, which directly translates to higher energy consumption and slightly less range.
It's probably a very small decrease in range, but big enough that it requires updated range ratings and even customer confirmations (at least in some markets) that they agree on the reduced range.
Most recently, Teslascope shared info provided by a Model 3 buyer in Australia, who was asked whether he accepted less range - 22 km (14 miles) or 3.5% less:
"We have updated Model 3 vehicles to optimize the touch screen experience with our new car computer. This hardware change requires more power, resulting in a minor drop in range. Your Model 3 range is now 602 kilometers (WLTP), 22 kilometers less than originally communicated."
It has been noted that this agreement will not be required for all regions, since some countries have stricter consumer laws than others.
As we've noted before, we expect the percentage of vehicles with MCU3 to continue increasing.— Teslascope (@teslascope) January 17, 2022This should explain why recently we saw adjustments to the WLTP range rating in Europe, where the new Model 3 got a lower range.
Interestingly, the new Model Y received a higher range - which might be associated with a bigger battery (82 kWh instead of 77 kWh, according to reports) or other changes (more usable battery capacity or other changes that resulted in overall higher efficiency).
Here are the Tesla Model 3/Tesla Model Y WLTP range adjustments:
- Model 3 RWD (no changes)
18" wheels: 510 km (317 miles)
19" wheels: 491 km (305 miles) - Model 3 LR AWD
18" wheels: 626 km (389 miles), down by 11 km or 1.7% from 637 km
19" wheels: 602 km (374 miles), down by 12 km or 2.0% from 614 km - Model 3 Performance
20" wheels: 547 km (340 miles), down by 20 km or 3.5% from 567 km - Model Y LR AWD
19" wheels: 565 km (351 miles), up by 28 km or 5.2% from 537 km
20" wheels: 533 km (331 miles), up by 26 km or 5.1% from 507 km - Model Y Performance
21" wheels: 514 km (319 miles), up by 34 km or 7.1% from 480 km
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civicdrivr (01-19-2022)
01-19-2022, 10:20 AM
#1421
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Last edited by civicdrivr; 01-19-2022 at 10:23 AM.
01-19-2022, 10:24 AM
#1422
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
01-19-2022, 10:33 AM
#1423
Ex-OEM King
But the Tesla version of the MyPillow guy says that Tesla's FSD is the greatest invention of all time, better than even the wheel, and that it works 100% of the time in 100% of situations with no disconnects or interventions other than having to tug the wheel every 30 seconds and it doesn't work in rain, snow, dark, without lines on the road, etc.
01-19-2022, 12:42 PM
#1424
Team Owner
I am surprised Lord Musk hasnt invented his own processor yet....
01-21-2022, 10:30 AM
#1425
Sanest Florida Man
Great breakdown of how the octovalve and heat pump system. They can use the battery pack to store heat too
01-21-2022, 11:35 AM
#1426
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Is the holy grail proclamation pre or post firmware update to fix the lack of heat below freezing temperatures?
01-21-2022, 12:44 PM
#1427
Ex-OEM King
01-22-2022, 01:22 PM
#1428
Sanest Florida Man
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Comfy (01-22-2022)
01-22-2022, 11:32 PM
#1429
But that’s not true because FSD can’t drive really and they step on rakes. It’s a fake video as well.
01-23-2022, 08:18 AM
#1430
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
It's hilarious but if you spend 10 minutes on the Tesla forums or Facebook groups you'll see how many real owners are pissed at spending $10k on an unfinished program that doesn't work all the time. The majority of actual owners say save the $10/12k, subscribe for a month to experience it, and just use Autopilot after that.
This is also proving to be the case as buyers have continued to decline FSD at a growing rate as prices continue to go up. People just aren't interested in being a beta tester for something that will never be fully autonomous with the current hardware.
This is also proving to be the case as buyers have continued to decline FSD at a growing rate as prices continue to go up. People just aren't interested in being a beta tester for something that will never be fully autonomous with the current hardware.
01-23-2022, 09:50 AM
#1431
My first Avatar....
Think about that. $12k for a computer program. 
01-23-2022, 11:05 AM
#1432
Ex-OEM King
I'm sorry you can't experience it for yourself, maybe that would finally get you to STFU about it.
It's hilarious but if you spend 10 minutes on the Tesla forums or Facebook groups you'll see how many real owners are pissed at spending $10k on an unfinished program that doesn't work all the time. The majority of actual owners say save the $10/12k, subscribe for a month to experience it, and just use Autopilot after that.
This is also proving to be the case as buyers have continued to decline FSD at a growing rate as prices continue to go up. People just aren't interested in being a beta tester for something that will never be fully autonomous with the current hardware.
This is also proving to be the case as buyers have continued to decline FSD at a growing rate as prices continue to go up. People just aren't interested in being a beta tester for something that will never be fully autonomous with the current hardware.
01-24-2022, 09:59 AM
#1433
Sanest Florida Man
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Comfy (01-24-2022)
01-24-2022, 10:54 AM
#1434
That doesn’t matter anymore since Tesla will be overrun by legacy competition. LOL.
01-25-2022, 03:54 PM
#1435
Sanest Florida Man
Any other vehicle in this price range come standard with a HEPA filter?
01-25-2022, 04:01 PM
#1436
Whats up with RDX owners?
iTrader: (9)
Yeah, two Kias, two Hyundais and an MG.
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oonowindoo (01-25-2022)
01-25-2022, 04:33 PM
#1437
Team Owner
He was not wrong tho.. in that price range.
In that price range, no. But cheaper cars? yes
https://www.cartoq.com/cars-hepa-air...-corona-virus/
Why does he care tho... scooter + N95 > Hepa filters.
In that price range, no. But cheaper cars? yes
https://www.cartoq.com/cars-hepa-air...-corona-virus/
Why does he care tho... scooter + N95 > Hepa filters.
01-25-2022, 05:42 PM
#1438
Race Director
Thread Starter
01-25-2022, 05:55 PM
#1439
Sanest Florida Man
01-25-2022, 05:59 PM
#1440
Team Owner
Too bad, he blocked me.. or he would not have asked
Normally it is not a big deal.... until Tesla introduces it for the very first time
But wait, there is more...
https://media.ford.com/content/fordm...ir-filter.html
https://www.kbb.com/car-news/hondas-...rus-particles/
https://bimmerlife.com/2021/05/29/bmw-expands-availability-of-nano-particle-cabin-air-filters/
https://news.ucr.edu/articles/2021/05/17/nanofiber-filter-captures-almost-100-coronavirus-aerosols
Normally it is not a big deal.... until Tesla introduces it for the very first time
But wait, there is more...
https://media.ford.com/content/fordm...ir-filter.html
https://www.kbb.com/car-news/hondas-...rus-particles/
https://bimmerlife.com/2021/05/29/bmw-expands-availability-of-nano-particle-cabin-air-filters/
https://news.ucr.edu/articles/2021/05/17/nanofiber-filter-captures-almost-100-coronavirus-aerosols
While Tesla’s systems rely on HEPA (High-Efficiency Particulate Air) filters, which are widely available in the aftermarket from a variety of original equipment manufacturers such as Bosch, BMW is expanding the availability of so-called nano-particle cabin-air filters within its lineup. Unveiled in the Fall 2020, the filters use what’s referred to as nano-fleece made of nano-fiber sitting on top of a traditional activated carbon layer. The filters are only available with optional four-zone climate control, and initially came standard on X7 and were offered as an option on the 7 Series and 8 Series, along with the X5 and X6, and all of their respective M derivatives.
Although HEPA filters can remove particles as small as 0.3 micron from the air, BMW’s nano-particle design takes things to another level, capturing particles as small 100 nanometers in size, or 0.1 micron. BMW says its nano-particle filters can strain 40% more harmful particles from the air than current mainstream filter technologies, including carbon monoxide and nitrogen oxide, bacterial microbes, allergies, soot, emissions particulate, and ultra-fine dust.
Although HEPA filters can remove particles as small as 0.3 micron from the air, BMW’s nano-particle design takes things to another level, capturing particles as small 100 nanometers in size, or 0.1 micron. BMW says its nano-particle filters can strain 40% more harmful particles from the air than current mainstream filter technologies, including carbon monoxide and nitrogen oxide, bacterial microbes, allergies, soot, emissions particulate, and ultra-fine dust.
Last edited by oonowindoo; 01-25-2022 at 06:12 PM.