Official 05RL info ***PG 4
#281
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Check any major metropoliton newspaper. Or call a couple dealers around. Why is it so hard to face facts? Acura lied. Just like they said the RL was going to be significantly under 50k. $49, 500 is not significantly under 50k.
#282
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Originally Posted by biker
The A6 will be the biggest car in the mid-sized category at 194in long (most of the cars in the category are between 187-193" long)
How long is the new 5 series, that thing looks long to me.
Junkster, who has gotten somewhat used to the 5 design, but the 7 still looks ugly as sin
#283
Originally Posted by jwaters943
While I agree with the argument that the RL is a little too pricey, it is still (no matter what Sicklex says) less than comparable models from Audi, BMW, MB, and most likely the new GS and M. The key here is standard features. When optioned out to a similar level the RL seems like a much better value.
Either way, many of you feel the RL is $3-4k more expensive than it should be. I'm not convinced that $3k would matter to the average buyer shopping in the $45-50k price range. They'll buy the car that they like best in most cases. Only time will tell if Acura has the panache to attract buyers in this segment. I think it will do fine in terms of sales personally.
Either way, many of you feel the RL is $3-4k more expensive than it should be. I'm not convinced that $3k would matter to the average buyer shopping in the $45-50k price range. They'll buy the car that they like best in most cases. Only time will tell if Acura has the panache to attract buyers in this segment. I think it will do fine in terms of sales personally.
Originally Posted by Junkster
The new A6 is smaller then the current A6? I haven't looked at reviews of the new A6 yet.
I think Acura has a few decent suits that know what they're doing... the evidences being the TSX and TL. I think some brass suit forgot the principle that holds true with all Honda products: Value and dependibility.
The 5 series, the bread winner?! More like the 3 series, I'd say. But the 5 is probably second, maybe third behind the X5.
I thinks it's a pretty good strategy in the one price method. God knows how faulty some 3 series advertisements can be.
hehe... people buying 9 year old chassis and designs... who are these people anyhow?
Junkster, whose hasn't done any work at all today
I think Acura has a few decent suits that know what they're doing... the evidences being the TSX and TL. I think some brass suit forgot the principle that holds true with all Honda products: Value and dependibility.
The 5 series, the bread winner?! More like the 3 series, I'd say. But the 5 is probably second, maybe third behind the X5.
I thinks it's a pretty good strategy in the one price method. God knows how faulty some 3 series advertisements can be.
hehe... people buying 9 year old chassis and designs... who are these people anyhow?
Junkster, whose hasn't done any work at all today
BMW has stated the 5 is their breadwinner. It's the most profitable model and brings tremendous prestige to the brand. I can go with the 3 arguement though.
I think the one-price is a good strategy for ACura. It's worked wonders for them since 1999.
9 years old. Check this out. 40% of the RL is old LEgend parts. So we are talking 15 years here with some things.
There is not doubt the new RL is superior in EVERY SINGLE WAY POSSIBLE!
#284
Originally Posted by phile
Here's the thing, when you see those ads in the newspaper, they're just teasers. Furthermore, Acura doesn't advertise for buy, they always offer lease rates. And, how do you know those discounts are coming straight from the factory, rather than from the dealers themselves? Honda has resisted 0% financing, even though everyone else out there is doing it, why would you think they'd discount the RL just because it's not selling well? They're not producing it by the thousands, for one thing, and it would hurt resale, something that Honda has traditionally been very good at preventing.
Originally Posted by Junkster
8k is a bit of exaggeration, it's more like 7k...
The publicly listed incentives are almost always not totally true.
I think publicly they list 5k or so as incentive, including dealer incentive, which they recieve for selling the car. Some inside sources say that they recieve about a 1.5k more or so then pubiclly listed.
GM and Ford do this all the time... why would there be so many dealerships that stay in business when their lots are so full? These incentives keep these dealerships alive.
Sick, where'd you get the 8k number? I got mine from a friend that works at the Honda dealers out in LA.
Junkster, who heard almost 10k incentive for the deville
The publicly listed incentives are almost always not totally true.
I think publicly they list 5k or so as incentive, including dealer incentive, which they recieve for selling the car. Some inside sources say that they recieve about a 1.5k more or so then pubiclly listed.
GM and Ford do this all the time... why would there be so many dealerships that stay in business when their lots are so full? These incentives keep these dealerships alive.
Sick, where'd you get the 8k number? I got mine from a friend that works at the Honda dealers out in LA.
Junkster, who heard almost 10k incentive for the deville
But even if in LA, Junkster is getting 7k off, 3 thousand miles away, we are getting 8k off. in Atlanta
#285
Race Director
Originally Posted by Junkster
How long is the new 5 series, that thing looks long to me.
Biker, who's researching like mad in the background.
#286
Race Director
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
But even if in LA, Junkster is getting 7k off, 3 thousand miles away, we are getting 8k off. in Atlanta
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Originally Posted by phile
Here's the thing, when you see those ads in the newspaper, they're just teasers. Furthermore, Acura doesn't advertise for buy, they always offer lease rates. And, how do you know those discounts are coming straight from the factory, rather than from the dealers themselves? Honda has resisted 0% financing, even though everyone else out there is doing it, why would you think they'd discount the RL just because it's not selling well? They're not producing it by the thousands, for one thing, and it would hurt resale, something that Honda has traditionally been very good at preventing.
Your right, newspaper ads are teasers. But the 7k incentive total is the truth, from a dealer source... I wonder if the oracle can validate this for us.
Most incentives come from the factory. The only way one dealership can offer more incentive and price cuts then others is by being a high-seller for the maker. With franchise fees as well as the total cost of running a dealership, they cannot possible offer incentives on their own, it would be nearly suicide.
Honda doesn't do 0% because they can't. Honda financing is not linked to a major bank, and the maker is not a financially large company that can offer such financing. Subaru works with Chase Manahatton to offer their 0%. Ford has their in-house financing. Toyota also has in-house (in fact, Toyota offers home loans in Japan). Honda's total asset isn't large enough, and they are trying to stay independent in their financing... just remember what happened to Mitsu when they went down such a road with the help of Chrysler financing.
But it's also the fact that Honda doesn't need 0% to sell their cars as well. The Accord is the best selling car in the NA market, if you exclude fleet sales. The only model in the Honda lineup that has sell-issues is the Civic and they offer pretty good incentives on that as it is.
Junkster, who thinks Acuras don't need special financing (excluding the RL)
#288
Okay, I found AWD M35 base price and features
$43,800.00
Infiniti M Concept Highlights
Highlights
270+ horsepower, 3.5-liter V6 engine
18-inch aluminum wheels
Sunroof, leather seats, solar eclipse gauges, voice recognition, Bluetooth™ wireless connectivity
Intelligent key with push button ignition
Rosewood interior trim
Intelligent all wheel drive (ATTESA ET-S)
5-Speed automatic transmission with manual shift mode
Double-wishbone front suspension; multi-link rear suspension; front and rear stabilizer bars
4-wheel power-assisted vented disc brakes w/ anti-lock braking system (ABS) with Brake Assist (BA) and Electronic Brake Force Distribution (EBD)
Halogen headlamps with automatic on/off and variable-off timer
Driver and front-passenger supplemental airbags (featuring Advanced Airbag Technology); Front seat side-impact supplemental airbags; Front and rear seat supplemental side curtain airbag
Tire pressure monitor with location display
10-way power driver's seat w/ power lumbar adjustment and 2 position memory
160 Watt, 6-speaker AM/FM audio system with in-dash 6-disc CD autochanger with MP3 playback capability
Automatic dual-zone climate control
Vehicle Information System (VIS) with 7-inch color display
Journey Package $2750
Click to select this option. Technology Package (requires Journey Package) $4000
Click to select this option. Premium Package (includes Journey/Technology Packages and Infiniti DVD Mobile Entertainment System) $10500
Choose Options
Click to select this option. DVD Entertainment System $1500
Click to select this option. Infiniti Navigation System $1800
Click to select this option. 18-inch Chrome Wheels $1000
Click to select this option. Aerodynamic Body Kit $1300
Click to select this option. Aerodynamic Rear Spoiler $300
Click to select this option. Satellite Radio $350
This option is included with your selections. Rosewood Trim Incl.
Click to select this option. 18-inch Full-Size Spare Wheel/Tire $180
$43,800.00
Infiniti M Concept Highlights
Highlights
270+ horsepower, 3.5-liter V6 engine
18-inch aluminum wheels
Sunroof, leather seats, solar eclipse gauges, voice recognition, Bluetooth™ wireless connectivity
Intelligent key with push button ignition
Rosewood interior trim
Intelligent all wheel drive (ATTESA ET-S)
5-Speed automatic transmission with manual shift mode
Double-wishbone front suspension; multi-link rear suspension; front and rear stabilizer bars
4-wheel power-assisted vented disc brakes w/ anti-lock braking system (ABS) with Brake Assist (BA) and Electronic Brake Force Distribution (EBD)
Halogen headlamps with automatic on/off and variable-off timer
Driver and front-passenger supplemental airbags (featuring Advanced Airbag Technology); Front seat side-impact supplemental airbags; Front and rear seat supplemental side curtain airbag
Tire pressure monitor with location display
10-way power driver's seat w/ power lumbar adjustment and 2 position memory
160 Watt, 6-speaker AM/FM audio system with in-dash 6-disc CD autochanger with MP3 playback capability
Automatic dual-zone climate control
Vehicle Information System (VIS) with 7-inch color display
Journey Package $2750
Click to select this option. Technology Package (requires Journey Package) $4000
Click to select this option. Premium Package (includes Journey/Technology Packages and Infiniti DVD Mobile Entertainment System) $10500
Choose Options
Click to select this option. DVD Entertainment System $1500
Click to select this option. Infiniti Navigation System $1800
Click to select this option. 18-inch Chrome Wheels $1000
Click to select this option. Aerodynamic Body Kit $1300
Click to select this option. Aerodynamic Rear Spoiler $300
Click to select this option. Satellite Radio $350
This option is included with your selections. Rosewood Trim Incl.
Click to select this option. 18-inch Full-Size Spare Wheel/Tire $180
#289
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Have u seen RL re-sale in the newspaper. Too many people go by Kelly and Blue Book. Look in the paper, see what people are REALLy selling their cars for. That gives you a much better general idea of what re-sale is for the car.(in your area)
#290
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Originally Posted by biker
191 in
Biker, who's researching like mad in the background.
Biker, who's researching like mad in the background.
Thanks for all the dimensions... man, I'm lazy today.
Junkster, who notes that it's raining in D-town and I had a huge burrito for lunch
#291
$50,550.00 WIth NAV for the M35 AWD. So 1k more than the RL.
There is a 10k package, for a 54k price total! includes
• Heated and power reclining rear seats
• Rear passenger controls for climate, audio and rear sunshade
• 18-inch Run-flat tires
• Power rear sunshade
That is too much!! Wow.
Wow, I just loaded it out 57k! For an AWD M35. That is nuts!
There is a 10k package, for a 54k price total! includes
• Heated and power reclining rear seats
• Rear passenger controls for climate, audio and rear sunshade
• 18-inch Run-flat tires
• Power rear sunshade
That is too much!! Wow.
Wow, I just loaded it out 57k! For an AWD M35. That is nuts!
#292
Originally Posted by Junkster
Your right, newspaper ads are teasers. But the 7k incentive total is the truth, from a dealer source... I wonder if the oracle can validate this for us.
Most incentives come from the factory. The only way one dealership can offer more incentive and price cuts then others is by being a high-seller for the maker. With franchise fees as well as the total cost of running a dealership, they cannot possible offer incentives on their own, it would be nearly suicide.
Most incentives come from the factory. The only way one dealership can offer more incentive and price cuts then others is by being a high-seller for the maker. With franchise fees as well as the total cost of running a dealership, they cannot possible offer incentives on their own, it would be nearly suicide.
#293
Originally Posted by phile
Show me. Use Edmunds to locate a used RL, find out its depreciation, compare that with a car with a similar price when new, and then come back and talk to me and we'll talk about the RL's resale value. I'm 2 steps ahead of you, but I'm not going to do the work for you. Show me.
#294
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
1SICKLEX, who is debating with someone with no intentions of buying any of these cars...
Now go and do your research. I'll be waiting, troll.
#295
I can't build the new A6 on their site. It's not ready yet.
A6 3.2
Starting at $41,620*
The all-new A6 3.2 performs with uncommon vigor when fitted with the powerful but economical V6 engine with FSI® Direct Injection. With 255 hp, the first ever Audi FSI engine in North America goes from 0-60 mph in just 7.1 seconds. Available Fall 2004.
A6 4.2
Starting at $51,220*
The all-new A6 4.2 features a powerful but lightweight V8. Developing 335 hp and 310 lb-ft of torque, the 4.2 liter engine accelerates from 0 to 60 mph in just 6.1 seconds — and powers onward to an electronically governed maximum speed of 130 mph.** Available Fall 2004.
A6 3.2
Starting at $41,620*
The all-new A6 3.2 performs with uncommon vigor when fitted with the powerful but economical V6 engine with FSI® Direct Injection. With 255 hp, the first ever Audi FSI engine in North America goes from 0-60 mph in just 7.1 seconds. Available Fall 2004.
A6 4.2
Starting at $51,220*
The all-new A6 4.2 features a powerful but lightweight V8. Developing 335 hp and 310 lb-ft of torque, the 4.2 liter engine accelerates from 0 to 60 mph in just 6.1 seconds — and powers onward to an electronically governed maximum speed of 130 mph.** Available Fall 2004.
#296
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
I can't build the new A6 on their site. It's not ready yet.
A6 3.2
Starting at $41,620*
A6 3.2
Starting at $41,620*
#297
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Originally Posted by phile
I'm just trying to tell a certain person that the RL, despite its age, was still selling well. He then goes on and on about resale and discounts, so I had to send him on his way. I don't doubt your friend's incentive, but the official word from Acura was that no major discount for the RL, and the reason was for keeping resale high. Now that may have changed recently with the new RL's introduciton drawing near, but it was not the case a few months ago.
Carmakers never tell the whole truth, let's agree upon that.
BTW, you know whose the worst in reporting their profit margins and such to their stockholders?
VW... they have been so bad of late, that some stockholders have asked for an independent source to got through the books at VW. VW stands by their numbers, but most analysts have already concluded that they aren't telling the whole story.
The best source, I find, for getting financial info on cars is the financing peeps at the dealership. Most aren't on any major commission as salary, so if you are frank with them, they don't hesitate to tell you everything.
Junkster, who heard Nissan is gonna start some aggresive financing soon
#298
Race Director
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
1SICKLEX, who is debating with someone with no intentions of buying any of these cars...
#299
Originally Posted by phile
I'm just trying to tell a certain person that the RL, despite its age, was still selling well. He then goes on and on about resale and discounts, so I had to send him on his way. I don't doubt your friend's incentive, but the official word from Acura was that no major discount for the RL, and the reason was for keeping resale high. Now that may have changed recently with the new RL's introduciton drawing near, but it was not the case a few months ago.
Though for a 9 year old car, 800 cars a month is not bad
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Originally Posted by biker
I'm pretty sure virtually no one in this thread would buy the new RL (and not because it's not a good car)
Naw, I would get something a bit more 'lux' if I won a lottery.
Junkster, who is sooooooooooo far from owning such a car
#301
Originally Posted by Junkster
Carmakers never tell the whole truth, let's agree upon that.
I'm not going to agree with you about the RL, I know what I read.
#303
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
I quote myself numbnuts.
I acknowledged it is not selling bad considering. All u want to do is argue with me. Why not just go home and fuck the troll your with. And leave me alone, some of us are trying to have a discussion.
I acknowledged it is not selling bad considering. All u want to do is argue with me. Why not just go home and fuck the troll your with. And leave me alone, some of us are trying to have a discussion.
#304
And let me say a car stealing sales from EVERYONE. That 300C. I think it's a great car. And b/c of it's very expensive looking styling, it's getting all sorts of buyers. V-8 and AWD under 40k. That is a bargain.
#305
And just an FYI...we are the ones having a discussion. You're the one coming in here trolling.
#306
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Originally Posted by phile
But you're in completely different domains. Acura telling its dealers not to heavily discount the RL is not the same as Mitsubishi saying they're fine when the evidence shows otherwise. You can't compare what your friend's discount from just now against something Acura sent out officially a few months ahead. Look at the current Odyssey, it was still demanding waiting lists despite new competition. And then suddenly they did an about front and was giving discount. Because a new one was coming and because it was no longer competitive.
I'm not going to agree with you about the RL, I know what I read.
I'm not going to agree with you about the RL, I know what I read.
I guess my example wasn't perfect, but you get my drift, right? The fact that large companies won't always divulge the truth in it's entirety.
Junkster, who saw the new Oddy last night
#307
Originally Posted by Junkster
I guess my example was perfect, but you get my drift, right? The fact that large companies won't always divulge the truth in it's entirety.
Junkster, who saw the new Oddy last night
#308
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
And let me say a car stealing sales from EVERYONE. That 300C. I think it's a great car. And b/c of it's very expensive looking styling, it's getting all sorts of buyers. V-8 and AWD under 40k. That is a bargain.
It's marketing wonder, I tell ya...
Junkster, who thinks we need to stay on the RL topic though
#309
Race Director
Getting back to this thread - I think the all inclusive strategy that may have worked at the lower end of the scale might hurt the RL a bit in this category.
#310
Originally Posted by phile
And just an FYI...we are the ones having a discussion. You're the one coming in here trolling.
#311
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Why R U still here? I thought I said go home and fuck the troll. You have added nothing to this conversation. Like u always do.
PS. Why do you come here?
#312
Race Director
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
And let me say a car stealing sales from EVERYONE. That 300C. I think it's a great car. And b/c of it's very expensive looking styling, it's getting all sorts of buyers. V-8 and AWD under 40k. That is a bargain.
#314
Originally Posted by biker
This has turned into a PW Friday thread with a little side :gheyfight:
#315
Race Director
Just for grins I looked up the stats for this thread, OMG look who's the PW:
User Name Posts
biker 46
phile 42
justinjsw 31
1SICKLEX 28
Junkster 23
gocubsgo55 18
ccheung 17
Dan Martin 10
ClutchPerformer 10
User Name Posts
biker 46
phile 42
justinjsw 31
1SICKLEX 28
Junkster 23
gocubsgo55 18
ccheung 17
Dan Martin 10
ClutchPerformer 10
#316
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Originally Posted by phile
But what's there to hide?? Acura stated no major discount for the RL. Who knows what they meant by "major," perhaps they had a cutoff of 3K?
When I bought my Scoobie, my friend John showed me the dealer cost of the car on his database. I was a whole grand under invoice due to the cash-back... I asked how he could make any profit off this sale, after all the incentives.
He proceeded to show me that Subaru offered nearly 2,500 in dealer incentives for selling off the 04 Legacy. That's where his profits for the dealership was coming from.
These things are prevalent in all automakers, so Honda wouldn't be outside the norm on this. Even MB and BMW accept these practices.
Junkster, who doesn't want to argue with phile for the sake of arguing
#317
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Originally Posted by phile
Hellooo...we don't do PW Fridays no mo
Junkster, who likes discussions as long it stays civil
#318
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Originally Posted by biker
Just for grins I looked up the stats for this thread, OMG look who's the PW:
User Name Posts
biker 46
phile 42
justinjsw 31
1SICKLEX 28
Junkster 23
gocubsgo55 18
ccheung 17
Dan Martin 10
ClutchPerformer 10
User Name Posts
biker 46
phile 42
justinjsw 31
1SICKLEX 28
Junkster 23
gocubsgo55 18
ccheung 17
Dan Martin 10
ClutchPerformer 10
Junkster, who wonders when the launch date of the RL is.
#319
Originally Posted by Junkster
The major ones that the public knows about are the customer discount and dealer incentive... there are added incentives for the dealership on top of what they are stating. How else do you think they make profit when they start giving you all the incentives that you are recieving?
When I bought my Scoobie, my friend John showed me the dealer cost of the car on his database. I was a whole grand under invoice due to the cash-back... I asked how he could make any profit off this sale, after all the incentives.
He proceeded to show me that Subaru offered nearly 2,500 in dealer incentives for selling off the 04 Legacy. That's where his profits for the dealership was coming from.
These things are prevalent in all automakers, so Honda wouldn't be outside the norm on this. Even MB and BMW accept these practices.
Junkster, who doesn't want to argue with phile for the sake of arguing
When I bought my Scoobie, my friend John showed me the dealer cost of the car on his database. I was a whole grand under invoice due to the cash-back... I asked how he could make any profit off this sale, after all the incentives.
He proceeded to show me that Subaru offered nearly 2,500 in dealer incentives for selling off the 04 Legacy. That's where his profits for the dealership was coming from.
These things are prevalent in all automakers, so Honda wouldn't be outside the norm on this. Even MB and BMW accept these practices.
Junkster, who doesn't want to argue with phile for the sake of arguing
#320
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Originally Posted by phile
That's not my point, though. The current RL has been a lame duck for the past 7 years, let's just give it the benefit of the doubt that in its first year, it actually created some buzz. So as sales waned, it'll obviously need discounts - or, Acura would go with the CL route and just discontinue it altogether. But when someone tells me to look at so and so discounts in a major magazine for the RL, and I know Acura did not authorize it, at least not a few months ago, I'm not going to agree. I know what was written, I know what Acura's rationale was for doing it, and that's where I'm standing. All this stuff that you're bringing up really has nothing to do with the initial point. It's obvious to me that they'll make a profit, one way or another, there's no way they're going to let us in on all their secrets. But that's not what I was bringing up.
Oh, they will still make a profit, don't get the wrong impression from what I've been saying. No carmaker ever sells cars at a loss.
Junkster, who notes that GM makes at least 10k for each suburban sold