Honda: Development and Technology News
10-10-2009, 08:27 AM
#1161
Senior Moderator
Having said that the 09 A4 I drove had absolutely terrible overly light steering. Although I'm told that was due to the lack of a sport package.
this seems to offer some comfort that they could have and this somehow makes the A4 acceptable. I don't know.
Acura tries with 'the most powerful Acura ever' Audi takes a different approach. You said yourself, it works.
10-10-2009, 08:58 AM
#1163
Senior Moderator
10-10-2009, 09:23 AM
#1164
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How about the CR-V? It's only the best-selling SUV in the U.S. 
Or the Odyssey, the best selling mini-van in the U.S. Or even the old Civic, selling more than double (20k vs 43K) the number of Corollas (still a new car) sold last month. Don't forget the Accord selling almost 40K units (Camry @ 25k INCLUDING fleet sales). All this with the true cost of incentives for Toyota coming in at $1,516 per car and $931 for Honda. So in other words, the cars mentioned above which all have a higher starting MSRP compared to their Toyota counterpart and a lower incentive to buy sold in substantially greater numbers, yet "Honda's aren't anything to write home about." Seems like last month the buying public seemed to differ greatly from your "opinion." Sales are down for everyone, but you need to compare sales to the direct competition to gauge a better opinion. Percentages don't mean anything if you don't look at the whole picture. Honda is doing something right because they are still in the black, unlike Toyota which is going on two years and counting in the red.
Or the Odyssey, the best selling mini-van in the U.S. Or even the old Civic, selling more than double (20k vs 43K) the number of Corollas (still a new car) sold last month. Don't forget the Accord selling almost 40K units (Camry @ 25k INCLUDING fleet sales). All this with the true cost of incentives for Toyota coming in at $1,516 per car and $931 for Honda. So in other words, the cars mentioned above which all have a higher starting MSRP compared to their Toyota counterpart and a lower incentive to buy sold in substantially greater numbers, yet "Honda's aren't anything to write home about." Seems like last month the buying public seemed to differ greatly from your "opinion." Sales are down for everyone, but you need to compare sales to the direct competition to gauge a better opinion. Percentages don't mean anything if you don't look at the whole picture. Honda is doing something right because they are still in the black, unlike Toyota which is going on two years and counting in the red.I don't know what you're talking about with the Accord, since the Accord sold only 20,000 units last month not 40K. Civic sales lagged behind the Corolla by 4000 units last month. This whole thread is about Honda terminating one of it's best design studios, so evidently things are NOT rosy for Honda.
Lexus- -26.5%
BMW- -26.3%
Mercedes- -23.6%
Acura- -33.6%
Infiniti- -33.4%
Audi- -9.6%
10-11-2009, 01:54 PM
#1165
Honda Fanboy
Either way, things at Honda are much better than most manufacturers (i.e. Honda is not in the red). The termination of the design studio in Germany is not the termination of entire development in Europe. It is merely the termination of one single part of development that occurs in Europe. They have not announced who will take the place of design in Germany. It could even go to their design facility in Italy. It is smaller and has less overhead. I also really can't recall what impressive designs the Germany center has come out with that this would be considered such a loss. Euro-Civic? People even call that ugly still.
10-11-2009, 02:32 PM
#1168
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I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the OSM concept (CR-Z convertible thing) was designed there. Now that was a HOT concept. Anyway, I think the designs that came from there were significantly better than the designs coming from Honda's US design center (the Crosstour is an abomination and very few are fond of Acura design).
10-11-2009, 10:53 PM
#1169
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people are trying to be more conservative with their money especially in this crappy economy. people are either keeping their cars or just buying honda, toyota, and nissan and are ignoring their luxury brand counterparts at this time. this is the reason for the true dip in all luxury car sales.
how could acura though fall beneath infiniti? that's not a good sign especially the fact that there are more acura dealers than infiniti dealers.
how could acura though fall beneath infiniti? that's not a good sign especially the fact that there are more acura dealers than infiniti dealers.
10-12-2009, 12:35 AM
#1170
Despite their drop in sales %, Acura still manages to out sell Audi, Infiniti, etc. IMO, it makes those brands look bad, not Acura. Also, when you consider that Acura is supposed to have the ugliest cars and no V8 or RWD, Acura should be at the bottom of the sales chart (at least if you listen to people on this forum).
YTD 2009
Lexus- 149,408
BMW- 144,223
Mercedes- 135,413
Acura- 76,628
Cadillac- 73,024
Buick- 72,389
Infiniti- 59,886
Audi- 59,518
Lincoln- 59,236
Volvo- 46,729
Saab- 6,928
YTD 2009
Lexus- 149,408
BMW- 144,223
Mercedes- 135,413
Acura- 76,628
Cadillac- 73,024
Buick- 72,389
Infiniti- 59,886
Audi- 59,518
Lincoln- 59,236
Volvo- 46,729
Saab- 6,928
10-12-2009, 10:18 AM
#1171
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Despite their drop in sales %, Acura still manages to out sell Audi, Infiniti, etc. IMO, it makes those brands look bad, not Acura. Also, when you consider that Acura is supposed to have the ugliest cars and no V8 or RWD, Acura should be at the bottom of the sales chart (at least if you listen to people on this forum).
YTD 2009
Lexus- 149,408
BMW- 144,223
Mercedes- 135,413
Acura- 76,628
Cadillac- 73,024
Buick- 72,389
Infiniti- 59,886
Audi- 59,518
Lincoln- 59,236
Volvo- 46,729
Saab- 6,928
YTD 2009
Lexus- 149,408
BMW- 144,223
Mercedes- 135,413
Acura- 76,628
Cadillac- 73,024
Buick- 72,389
Infiniti- 59,886
Audi- 59,518
Lincoln- 59,236
Volvo- 46,729
Saab- 6,928
One thing that makes your argument invalid, is the fact that Acura's vehicles are significantly cheaper than Infiniti and Audi's. Of course the cheaper alternative brand is going to outsell the more expensive brands (see:Hyundai/Kia).
So no Acura does not have RWD or V8s but they have a substantial price advantage. In a depressed economy Acura's sales should be up because of that price advantage, but we're seeing the opposite.
People that still have money are shopping at true luxury brands and are increasingly passing over Acura. Thats what percentage sales show us. Yes 76,628 people bought Acuras this year but that's 33.6% less people than bought Acuras last year. The only thing that has significantly changed at Acura in this time frame is the further proliferation of the plenum grille, and the increasing competition of it's competitors (new A4, convertible versions of IS an G37, new Lexus RX etc etc).
Another factor that shows some weakness for Acura is the fact that they have the newest complete lineup of vehicles in the luxury segment and they're sales are still faltering.
10-12-2009, 10:19 AM
#1172
The sizzle in the Steak
, where are all your great comments on how great Honda's are? I only seem to see your constant Honda/Acura whining and complaining.And great Honda products in the last few years, the current gen Civic and CRV are two excellent examples.
You have no right to tell anyone he's a tool.
Take the time to read the threads around here, you will find many of my comments about where some of the Honda products is excellent.
You might be a fanboy...the vast majority here are not.
This is Automotive News.....not Honda News.
...again, don't be a tool.
10-12-2009, 10:23 AM
#1173
The sizzle in the Steak
This isn't hondalovefest.com
IMO Acura hasn't given enthusiasts much to be happy about lately so that's played into this 'negativity'?
Put aside the styling issue for a second. They don't IMO have anything resembling something sporty. Am I the only one who feels that way? A 4000lb sedan with AWD doesn't exactly stir the senses.
Of course you'll argue that Honda never made the car we're now looking for so we should just move on. I get that point but at the same time don't agree with it. I am/was a loyal customer and feel its the manufactuers responsibility to meet my needs as the customer, not my responsibility to settle for what they have. Ultimately, they either will or won't and life goes on. Sure we bitch now but we'll get over it.
But understand that these forums are here for us to discuss things like this. Look at their lineup and try to understand why.
Jeff over at TOV has had that site for how long now? I'm guessing 10+ years. Even he has a hard time remaining postive these days. I don't think Honda enthusiasts come any bigger.
IMO Acura hasn't given enthusiasts much to be happy about lately so that's played into this 'negativity'?
Put aside the styling issue for a second. They don't IMO have anything resembling something sporty. Am I the only one who feels that way? A 4000lb sedan with AWD doesn't exactly stir the senses.
Of course you'll argue that Honda never made the car we're now looking for so we should just move on. I get that point but at the same time don't agree with it. I am/was a loyal customer and feel its the manufactuers responsibility to meet my needs as the customer, not my responsibility to settle for what they have. Ultimately, they either will or won't and life goes on. Sure we bitch now but we'll get over it.
But understand that these forums are here for us to discuss things like this. Look at their lineup and try to understand why.
Jeff over at TOV has had that site for how long now? I'm guessing 10+ years. Even he has a hard time remaining postive these days. I don't think Honda enthusiasts come any bigger.
Could you imagine how incredible Honda would be if they brought over the Euro Accord Wagon.....or the Euro Civic Type R??
There would be dancing in the streets
...but nope we get the Crosstour
NA gets the shaft.
10-12-2009, 12:59 PM
#1174
Honda Fanboy
Percentage sales figures are what matters, not overall sales. Percentage sales figure show us what the trends are. Acura has outsold Audi and Infiniti for over a decade, but now we're seeing those two brand closing the gap and if the trend continues they may outsell Acura.
One thing that makes your argument invalid, is the fact that Acura's vehicles are significantly cheaper than Infiniti and Audi's. Of course the cheaper alternative brand is going to outsell the more expensive brands (see:Hyundai/Kia).
So no Acura does not have RWD or V8s but they have a substantial price advantage. In a depressed economy Acura's sales should be up because of that price advantage, but we're seeing the opposite.
People that still have money are shopping at true luxury brands and are increasingly passing over Acura. Thats what percentage sales show us. Yes 76,628 people bought Acuras this year but that's 33.6% less people than bought Acuras last year. The only thing that has significantly changed at Acura in this time frame is the further proliferation of the plenum grille, and the increasing competition of it's competitors (new A4, convertible versions of IS an G37, new Lexus RX etc etc).
Another factor that shows some weakness for Acura is the fact that they have the newest complete lineup of vehicles in the luxury segment and they're sales are still faltering.
One thing that makes your argument invalid, is the fact that Acura's vehicles are significantly cheaper than Infiniti and Audi's. Of course the cheaper alternative brand is going to outsell the more expensive brands (see:Hyundai/Kia).
So no Acura does not have RWD or V8s but they have a substantial price advantage. In a depressed economy Acura's sales should be up because of that price advantage, but we're seeing the opposite.
People that still have money are shopping at true luxury brands and are increasingly passing over Acura. Thats what percentage sales show us. Yes 76,628 people bought Acuras this year but that's 33.6% less people than bought Acuras last year. The only thing that has significantly changed at Acura in this time frame is the further proliferation of the plenum grille, and the increasing competition of it's competitors (new A4, convertible versions of IS an G37, new Lexus RX etc etc).
Another factor that shows some weakness for Acura is the fact that they have the newest complete lineup of vehicles in the luxury segment and they're sales are still faltering.
TSX: $29,310 A3: $25,361
TL: $35,105 G37: $33,250 A4: $31,450
RL: $46,830 M35: $45,800 A6: $45,200
RDX: $32,520 EX: $33,800 Q5: $37,350
MDX: $41,000 FX: $42,150 Q7: $46,900
Is this what you mean by significantly cheaper?
Does this mean that Lexus is the number one selling luxury brand in the U.S. only because it is the cheapest when compared to BMW and Mercedes? Is the RX the best selling luxury SUV because it is also the cheapest luxury SUV, period? Does the LS sell almost as many units as the S-Class because it's MSRP is $20,000 cheaper and closer to that of a loaded E-class rather than the actual S-class?
10-12-2009, 02:17 PM
#1176
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Starting MSRP
TSX: $29,310 G37: $33,250 A4: $31,450
TL: $35,105 M35: $45,800 A6: $45,200
RL: $46,830 M45: $52,150 A6: $60,950
Does this mean that Lexus is the number one selling luxury brand in the U.S. only because it is the cheapest when compared to BMW and Mercedes? Is the RX the best selling luxury SUV because it is also the cheapest luxury SUV, period? Does the LS sell almost as many units as the S-Class because it's MSRP is $20,000 cheaper and closer to that of a loaded E-class rather than the actual S-class?
Last edited by (Cj); 10-12-2009 at 02:22 PM.
10-12-2009, 02:59 PM
#1177
Racer
I don't think I've ever seen anyone cross shop a TSX and a G37. Its always been the TL, just look at any number of magazine comparisons. It typically goes by price, not size.
10-12-2009, 03:49 PM
#1178
Honda Fanboy
That is an inaccurate comparison. Just look at the sizes of the vehicles listed. Acura themselves compares the TSX with A4/G37 and TL with A6/M35. RL is compared with "flagship" premium vehicles. Readjusting that chart and you'll see that the Acura's are significantly cheaper than their competition.
Starting MSRP
TSX: $29,310 G37: $33,250 A4: $31,450
TL: $35,105 M35: $45,800 A6: $45,200
RL: $46,830 M45: $52,150 A6: $60,950
Lexus cost about the same as Mercedes and BMW. The RX isn't the "cheapest" luxury SUV, and similarly equipped it costs about the same as the ML and X3 (give or take a few grand). The LS is also not $20K cheaper when similarly equipped with the S-class. The S-Class is as long as the LS460L and the S-class has air suspension standard. Add those features to the LS and you're at $85+K.
Starting MSRP
TSX: $29,310 G37: $33,250 A4: $31,450
TL: $35,105 M35: $45,800 A6: $45,200
RL: $46,830 M45: $52,150 A6: $60,950
Lexus cost about the same as Mercedes and BMW. The RX isn't the "cheapest" luxury SUV, and similarly equipped it costs about the same as the ML and X3 (give or take a few grand). The LS is also not $20K cheaper when similarly equipped with the S-class. The S-Class is as long as the LS460L and the S-class has air suspension standard. Add those features to the LS and you're at $85+K.
The TL is large in size, but if you do a size comparison to actual mid-size luxury sedans, you will see that the TL still is generally smaller, interior wise. The RL does not even come close to matching the full-size luxury sedans. Don't mistake exterior size with interior size.
Lexus does not cost the same as BMW or MB. It is an, in your words, "significant" price difference. If Acura is priced significantly cheaper than the competition, then so is Lexus compared to BMW and MB. Don't be a hypocrite. The RX is the cheapest car in its class if you include it with the MDX, X5, ML, Q5. It is the only car of the bunch that does not have a third row. It is more inline with the entry-level SUV's such as the X3, Q5, RDX and EX. There has even been magazine comparisons pitting it up against those class of cars. The RDX even has more passenger volume than the RX (100.9 vs. 101.4 cu ft). The LS has a starting MSRP that is $20,000 less than an S-class. I'm not talking about similarly equipped cars, I am referring to starting MSRP's. Lexus, in general, has a lower starting MSRP compared to all of it's European counterparts and that plays a significant role in getting people into the showroom.
10-12-2009, 05:14 PM
#1179
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"Customers will find the Acura TSX positioned alongside the Audi A4 2.0T, BMW 328i, Infiniti G37, Lexus IS 250, and Mercedes-Benz C300."
And that article came out before there was even a V6 TSX.
Ergo you've proved my point. The RX is more inline with entry level luxury CUVs and lo and behold its the most expensive of them proving that Lexus aren't "cheap". The Lexus GX (which cost right under $50K) is more in line with the 3 row SUV/CUVs.
10-12-2009, 06:16 PM
#1180
AZ Community Team
Where are your comments? How about you take the time to search and enlighten us with your other positive comments about when Honda/Acura made a decent automobile recently.And again with constant praising of Audi/VW and bashing of Honda/Acura's you can't call anyone a fanboy or a tool. True auto enthusiasts see the good/bad from various manufacturers.
Not all Honda's are great
Take the time to read the threads around here, you will find many of my comments about where some of the Honda products is excellent.
You might be a fanboy...the vast majority here are not.
This is Automotive News.....not Honda News.
...again, don't be a tool.
Take the time to read the threads around here, you will find many of my comments about where some of the Honda products is excellent.
You might be a fanboy...the vast majority here are not.
This is Automotive News.....not Honda News.
...again, don't be a tool.
10-12-2009, 06:19 PM
#1181
LUXURY MARKET STATUS
The 2010 TL enters the competitive luxury market at an ideal time as the segment in which it competes is expected to remain strong into the next decade. Available with the largest and most powerful engine in TL history, along with the sport-driving focused SH-AWD® system (the world's first torque-vectoring AWD system when introduced in 2000), the 2010 TL competes with vehicles such as the Audi A4 and A6, BMW 3-Series and 5-Series, Infiniti G35 and M35, Lexus ES, GS and IS sedans, and the Mercedes-Benz C-Class and E-Class.
The 2010 TL enters the competitive luxury market at an ideal time as the segment in which it competes is expected to remain strong into the next decade. Available with the largest and most powerful engine in TL history, along with the sport-driving focused SH-AWD® system (the world's first torque-vectoring AWD system when introduced in 2000), the 2010 TL competes with vehicles such as the Audi A4 and A6, BMW 3-Series and 5-Series, Infiniti G35 and M35, Lexus ES, GS and IS sedans, and the Mercedes-Benz C-Class and E-Class.
10-12-2009, 06:34 PM
#1182
The sizzle in the Steak
Where are your comments? How about you take the time to search and enlighten us with your other positive comments about when Honda/Acura made a decent automobile recently.And again with constant praising of Audi/VW and bashing of Honda/Acura's you can't call anyone a fanboy or a tool. True auto enthusiasts see the good/bad from various manufacturers.
You brought the whole thing up (unfounded as it is), I told you that you were incorrect, and that you should read some of my comments.
You use the search button, genius. Not going to spoon-feed you.
At the constant Audi/VW praising. If you look hard enough you will find that I praise Aston Martin & Ferrari constantly, and probably praise BMW more than VW/Audi....but yea, I'm bought and sold on the Audi interiors...you got me there....but then again who isn't.
...and when a company like Acura/Honda continues to create designs that are polarizing, they will receive a lot of heated comments.
Other than the MDX the Acura line-up is an abortion in the looks department. (though the new TSX beak is not as bad as the TL).
10-12-2009, 06:43 PM
#1183
All manufacturers like to position their 'lower' product against the 'higher' product. It is a was of trying to devalue the competition in the customers eye. Much like Mazda has always compared the 6 to the TSX. It's just marketing-speak. A pinch of salt is necessary.
10-12-2009, 07:25 PM
#1184
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10-12-2009, 07:33 PM
#1185
I'm gonna ask you again...please don't be a tool.
You brought the whole thing up (unfounded as it is), I told you that you were incorrect, and that you should read some of my comments.
You use the search button, genius. Not going to spoon-feed you.
At the constant Audi/VW praising. If you look hard enough you will find that I praise Aston Martin & Ferrari constantly, and probably praise BMW more than VW/Audi....but yea, I'm bought and sold on the Audi interiors...
you got me there....but then again who isn't.
...and when a company like Acura/Honda continues to create designs that are polarizing, they will receive a lot of heated comments.
Other than the MDX the Acura line-up is an abortion in the looks department. (though the new TSX beak is not as bad as the TL).
You brought the whole thing up (unfounded as it is), I told you that you were incorrect, and that you should read some of my comments.
You use the search button, genius. Not going to spoon-feed you.
At the constant Audi/VW praising. If you look hard enough you will find that I praise Aston Martin & Ferrari constantly, and probably praise BMW more than VW/Audi....but yea, I'm bought and sold on the Audi interiors...you got me there....but then again who isn't.
...and when a company like Acura/Honda continues to create designs that are polarizing, they will receive a lot of heated comments.
Other than the MDX the Acura line-up is an abortion in the looks department. (though the new TSX beak is not as bad as the TL).
Sorry, your chart is way off. The TSX is placed correctly in my chart as is all other Acura's. Show me one magazine or Acura release where they compare the TL to the mid-size luxury class and the RL to the full-size luxury class.
The TL is large in size, but if you do a size comparison to actual mid-size luxury sedans, you will see that the TL still is generally smaller, interior wise. The RL does not even come close to matching the full-size luxury sedans. Don't mistake exterior size with interior size.
Lexus does not cost the same as BMW or MB. It is an, in your words, "significant" price difference. If Acura is priced significantly cheaper than the competition, then so is Lexus compared to BMW and MB. Don't be a hypocrite. The RX is the cheapest car in its class if you include it with the MDX, X5, ML, Q5. It is the only car of the bunch that does not have a third row. It is more inline with the entry-level SUV's such as the X3, Q5, RDX and EX. There has even been magazine comparisons pitting it up against those class of cars. The RDX even has more passenger volume than the RX (100.9 vs. 101.4 cu ft). The LS has a starting MSRP that is $20,000 less than an S-class. I'm not talking about similarly equipped cars, I am referring to starting MSRP's. Lexus, in general, has a lower starting MSRP compared to all of it's European counterparts and that plays a significant role in getting people into the showroom.
The TL is large in size, but if you do a size comparison to actual mid-size luxury sedans, you will see that the TL still is generally smaller, interior wise. The RL does not even come close to matching the full-size luxury sedans. Don't mistake exterior size with interior size.
Lexus does not cost the same as BMW or MB. It is an, in your words, "significant" price difference. If Acura is priced significantly cheaper than the competition, then so is Lexus compared to BMW and MB. Don't be a hypocrite. The RX is the cheapest car in its class if you include it with the MDX, X5, ML, Q5. It is the only car of the bunch that does not have a third row. It is more inline with the entry-level SUV's such as the X3, Q5, RDX and EX. There has even been magazine comparisons pitting it up against those class of cars. The RDX even has more passenger volume than the RX (100.9 vs. 101.4 cu ft). The LS has a starting MSRP that is $20,000 less than an S-class. I'm not talking about similarly equipped cars, I am referring to starting MSRP's. Lexus, in general, has a lower starting MSRP compared to all of it's European counterparts and that plays a significant role in getting people into the showroom.
In most cases a Lexus costs on par with the Germans looking at MSRP, where are you getting your data?
If we get into how these luxury vehicles are sold, BMWs are leased so MSRP means nothing.
So Honda is saying what about the RL here?
10-12-2009, 07:34 PM
#1186
AZ Community Team
Then search and find some of your positive comments. My point was simple, you post negative comments consistently.
Otherwise you're just a douche bag from your name calling (hey that's the pot calling the kettle black) and not backing up your claims.
Otherwise you're just a douche bag from your name calling (hey that's the pot calling the kettle black) and not backing up your claims.
I'm gonna ask you again...please don't be a tool.
You brought the whole thing up (unfounded as it is), I told you that you were incorrect, and that you should read some of my comments.
You use the search button, genius. Not going to spoon-feed you.
At the constant Audi/VW praising. If you look hard enough you will find that I praise Aston Martin & Ferrari constantly, and probably praise BMW more than VW/Audi....but yea, I'm bought and sold on the Audi interiors...
you got me there....but then again who isn't.
...and when a company like Acura/Honda continues to create designs that are polarizing, they will receive a lot of heated comments.
Other than the MDX the Acura line-up is an abortion in the looks department. (though the new TSX beak is not as bad as the TL).
You brought the whole thing up (unfounded as it is), I told you that you were incorrect, and that you should read some of my comments.
You use the search button, genius. Not going to spoon-feed you.
At the constant Audi/VW praising. If you look hard enough you will find that I praise Aston Martin & Ferrari constantly, and probably praise BMW more than VW/Audi....but yea, I'm bought and sold on the Audi interiors...you got me there....but then again who isn't.
...and when a company like Acura/Honda continues to create designs that are polarizing, they will receive a lot of heated comments.
Other than the MDX the Acura line-up is an abortion in the looks department. (though the new TSX beak is not as bad as the TL).
10-12-2009, 07:46 PM
#1187
10-12-2009, 10:23 PM
#1188
Honda Fanboy
Like I said Acura themselves say the TSX competes with the A4 and G37.
"Customers will find the Acura TSX positioned alongside the Audi A4 2.0T, BMW 328i, Infiniti G37, Lexus IS 250, and Mercedes-Benz C300."
And that article came out before there was even a V6 TSX.
Ergo you've proved my point. The RX is more inline with entry level luxury CUVs and lo and behold its the most expensive of them proving that Lexus aren't "cheap". The Lexus GX (which cost right under $50K) is more in line with the 3 row SUV/CUVs.
"Customers will find the Acura TSX positioned alongside the Audi A4 2.0T, BMW 328i, Infiniti G37, Lexus IS 250, and Mercedes-Benz C300."
And that article came out before there was even a V6 TSX.
Ergo you've proved my point. The RX is more inline with entry level luxury CUVs and lo and behold its the most expensive of them proving that Lexus aren't "cheap". The Lexus GX (which cost right under $50K) is more in line with the 3 row SUV/CUVs.
So you are agreeing here that the RX is in the same class as the RDX, EX, X3, GLK, and Q5?
10-12-2009, 10:30 PM
#1189
Honda Fanboy
Great post(s
What does Lexus have to do with Acura here? Have you even priced it? The RX starts at what 38k and hits over 55k with options. How is that cheaper than anything?
In most cases a Lexus costs on par with the Germans looking at MSRP, where are you getting your data?
What does Lexus have to do with Acura here? Have you even priced it? The RX starts at what 38k and hits over 55k with options. How is that cheaper than anything?
In most cases a Lexus costs on par with the Germans looking at MSRP, where are you getting your data?
In most cases, Lexus is not on par with the German pricing. If they were, people would not buy them as much. My data is coming from www.lexus.com, www.acura.com, www.infinitiusa.com, www.audiusa.com, www.mbusa.com, www.bmw.com. Take a look.
10-12-2009, 11:09 PM
#1190
The sizzle in the Steak
Why would I search my own posts, I know what I have written...and so does everyone else here.
Listen, I post negative comments CONSISTENTLY when there are things IMHO that are deemed NEGATIVE.
I post positive comments CONSISTENTLY when there are things IMHO that are deemed POSITIVE.
Try to follow along. This is Automotive news where people comment about industry news and vehicles. This forum is not Honda/Acura fanboy news.
If you can't handle people commenting on manufacturer that you are a fanboy of, then perhaps automotive news is not the forum for you......but I think you can handle it.....for some reason you have your panties in a bunch because Honda/Acura has put out some poor designs recently.....(you may think they are fantastic...and you are entitled to your opinion....but you will find here that you might be in the minority).....so be it.
Clearly you have not figured out yet that I think Honda makes some great vehicles.
10-13-2009, 12:35 AM
#1191
how handsome I am
<<< Beats head against wall.
Why would I search my own posts, I know what I have written...and so does everyone else here.
Listen, I post negative comments CONSISTENTLY when there are things IMHO that are deemed NEGATIVE.
I post positive comments CONSISTENTLY when there are things IMHO that are deemed POSITIVE.
Try to follow along. This is Automotive news where people comment about industry news and vehicles. This forum is not Honda/Acura fanboy news.
If you can't handle people commenting on manufacturer that you are a fanboy of, then perhaps automotive news is not the forum for you......but I think you can handle it.....for some reason you have your panties in a bunch because Honda/Acura has put out some poor designs recently.....(you may think they are fantastic...and you are entitled to your opinion....but you will find here that you might be in the minority).....so be it.
Clearly you have not figured out yet that I think Honda makes some great vehicles.
Why would I search my own posts, I know what I have written...and so does everyone else here.
Listen, I post negative comments CONSISTENTLY when there are things IMHO that are deemed NEGATIVE.
I post positive comments CONSISTENTLY when there are things IMHO that are deemed POSITIVE.
Try to follow along. This is Automotive news where people comment about industry news and vehicles. This forum is not Honda/Acura fanboy news.
If you can't handle people commenting on manufacturer that you are a fanboy of, then perhaps automotive news is not the forum for you......but I think you can handle it.....for some reason you have your panties in a bunch because Honda/Acura has put out some poor designs recently.....(you may think they are fantastic...and you are entitled to your opinion....but you will find here that you might be in the minority).....so be it.
Clearly you have not figured out yet that I think Honda makes some great vehicles.
and it fucking sucks
10-13-2009, 07:59 AM
#1194
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Like Colin said, manufacturers do that for a specific reason. You can look at what class a car really compares in by seeing what the CONSUMER cross-shops with and what the magazines are pitting it against. The magazines and consumers on the this forum have shown that my chart is correct and yours is wrong. Deal with it.
BMW 3
Honda Accord
Infiniti G37
None of them looked at the A3, proving your chart wrong.
10-13-2009, 07:18 PM
#1195
Honda Fanboy
10-13-2009, 08:02 PM
#1196
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Somewhere out there
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You still have not proved any of your points.
10-13-2009, 08:49 PM
#1197
Honda Fanboy
10-13-2009, 09:05 PM
#1198
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Ok here we go.
Click on this link:
http://www.edmunds.com/acura/tsx/2010/index.html
Then use your mouse to scroll to the bottom of the page.
Then look at a little box that says:
"People considering this vehicle also researched these..."
In that box you'll see that people researched the Audi A4, BMW 3, Honda Accord, Infiniti G37, and Lexus ES.
10-13-2009, 09:23 PM
#1199
Honda Fanboy
Ok I'll make this easy for you. I'll give you a link that you click on to show you that the TSX is compared to the Audi A4 and BMW 3 series.
Ok here we go.
Click on this link:
http://www.edmunds.com/acura/tsx/2010/index.html
Then use your mouse to scroll to the bottom of the page.
Then look at a little box that says:
"People considering this vehicle also researched these..."
In that box you'll see that people researched the Audi A4, BMW 3, Honda Accord, Infiniti G37, and Lexus ES.
Ok here we go.
Click on this link:
http://www.edmunds.com/acura/tsx/2010/index.html
Then use your mouse to scroll to the bottom of the page.
Then look at a little box that says:
"People considering this vehicle also researched these..."
In that box you'll see that people researched the Audi A4, BMW 3, Honda Accord, Infiniti G37, and Lexus ES.
Acura MDX, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Audi A3 = The same class of cars.
http://www.edmunds.com/audi/a3/2009/index.html
I gave you real-world results, you gave me elephant turd.
10-13-2009, 10:08 PM
#1200
AZ Community Team
My point is extremely simple. I stated you post consistently negative comments about Honda/Acura's. Then you claim to that you post positive stuff (post #42). Then you claim you know what you wrote as well as every one else (post #99). If that's the case then tell us where are they, very simple.
This is only about your simple claim that you make positive comments on Honda/Acuras. Very simple, backup your claim.
This is only about your simple claim that you make positive comments on Honda/Acuras. Very simple, backup your claim.
<<< Beats head against wall.
Why would I search my own posts, I know what I have written...and so does everyone else here.
Listen, I post negative comments CONSISTENTLY when there are things IMHO that are deemed NEGATIVE.
I post positive comments CONSISTENTLY when there are things IMHO that are deemed POSITIVE.
Try to follow along. This is Automotive news where people comment about industry news and vehicles. This forum is not Honda/Acura fanboy news.
If you can't handle people commenting on manufacturer that you are a fanboy of, then perhaps automotive news is not the forum for you......but I think you can handle it.....for some reason you have your panties in a bunch because Honda/Acura has put out some poor designs recently.....(you may think they are fantastic...and you are entitled to your opinion....but you will find here that you might be in the minority).....so be it.
Clearly you have not figured out yet that I think Honda makes some great vehicles.
Why would I search my own posts, I know what I have written...and so does everyone else here.
Listen, I post negative comments CONSISTENTLY when there are things IMHO that are deemed NEGATIVE.
I post positive comments CONSISTENTLY when there are things IMHO that are deemed POSITIVE.
Try to follow along. This is Automotive news where people comment about industry news and vehicles. This forum is not Honda/Acura fanboy news.
If you can't handle people commenting on manufacturer that you are a fanboy of, then perhaps automotive news is not the forum for you......but I think you can handle it.....for some reason you have your panties in a bunch because Honda/Acura has put out some poor designs recently.....(you may think they are fantastic...and you are entitled to your opinion....but you will find here that you might be in the minority).....so be it.
Clearly you have not figured out yet that I think Honda makes some great vehicles.