Honda: Development and Technology News
05-28-2008, 09:41 AM
#761
Fahrvergnügen'd
Originally Posted by biker
If MB can keep the diesel premium at 1K for the E-class I have to assume Honda can do the same or better.
The thing that came out of the hearings with the oil execs in Congress the other day is that they are making no money (and sometimes losing money) refining gas yet they profit 25 cent/gal refining diesel. That's one of the main reasons for such a wide spread between gas and diesel prices. All things being equal it probably costs about the same to refine a gal of premium and a gal of diesel.
As was pointed out the issue will be refining capacity for diesel - if the US changes to anything approaching EU car buying habits, diesel will go through the roof from demand.
The thing that came out of the hearings with the oil execs in Congress the other day is that they are making no money (and sometimes losing money) refining gas yet they profit 25 cent/gal refining diesel. That's one of the main reasons for such a wide spread between gas and diesel prices. All things being equal it probably costs about the same to refine a gal of premium and a gal of diesel.
As was pointed out the issue will be refining capacity for diesel - if the US changes to anything approaching EU car buying habits, diesel will go through the roof from demand.
And I don't believe for one minute that oil companies make little to no money on gas ... Reminds me of when author Art Buchwald sued the producers of "Coming to America" asserting that they stole his idea.
IIRC he won the case but when all the bookkeeping had been done on the movie the $100M film (back in 1988) "broke even" and so Buchwald didn't get shit out of it as a settlement.
I'm sure that the oil accounting can be shown to take a paper loss but their record profits indicate otherwise.
05-29-2008, 09:38 AM
#762
Race Director
True, you can play all kinds of numbers in accounting, but the bulk of their profits are strictly from the higher prices for crude - not from the downstream products.
05-31-2008, 10:51 AM
#765
luvs redheads!
its pure bullshit. they saying they aren't making profits is like saying there daily driven veyron wont hold its value....
anyways I have to talk my bro into letting me test some ideas on his F350. he needs it for toying but when he gets 13mpg average it hurts
Ps- at my local gas station an attendant showed me a pie chart stating that oil companies make 58% of all profit while the station itself makes 1%.
anyways I have to talk my bro into letting me test some ideas on his F350. he needs it for toying but when he gets 13mpg average it hurts
Ps- at my local gas station an attendant showed me a pie chart stating that oil companies make 58% of all profit while the station itself makes 1%.
05-31-2008, 10:59 AM
#766
Fahrvergnügen'd
Originally Posted by swift22
its pure bullshit. they saying they aren't making profits is like saying there daily driven veyron wont hold its value....
anyways I have to talk my bro into letting me test some ideas on his F350. he needs it for toying but when he gets 13mpg average it hurts
Ps- at my local gas station an attendant showed me a pie chart stating that oil companies make 58% of all profit while the station itself makes 1%.
anyways I have to talk my bro into letting me test some ideas on his F350. he needs it for toying but when he gets 13mpg average it hurts
Ps- at my local gas station an attendant showed me a pie chart stating that oil companies make 58% of all profit while the station itself makes 1%.
Pie charts are meaningless when showed to you by some crazy gas station attendant
Gas stations don't make shit off gas. It's the convenience store and the service bays that make all their profit.
05-31-2008, 11:48 AM
#767
Race Director
Originally Posted by swift22
its pure bullshit. they saying they aren't making profits is like saying there daily driven veyron wont hold its value....
anyways I have to talk my bro into letting me test some ideas on his F350. he needs it for toying but when he gets 13mpg average it hurts
Ps- at my local gas station an attendant showed me a pie chart stating that oil companies make 58% of all profit while the station itself makes 1%.
anyways I have to talk my bro into letting me test some ideas on his F350. he needs it for toying but when he gets 13mpg average it hurts
Ps- at my local gas station an attendant showed me a pie chart stating that oil companies make 58% of all profit while the station itself makes 1%.
We should be hearing more about the diesel around the fall car show season.
08-15-2008, 06:31 AM
#768
Safety Car
Honda's New IMA; Return of the Accord Hybrid?
Honda Awaiting New Super Lithium-Ion Battery for Next Generation Hybrids
By Bill Visnic, Senior Editor
TRAVERSE CITY, Mich. -- Honda Motor Co. is preparing for an all-new, advanced lithium-ion battery that will allow its engineers to extend Honda's Integrated Motor Assist hybrid-electric technology to larger vehicles, a senior company executive told Green Car Advisor during an annual auto-industry conference frequented by heavy-hitters from carmakers' management ranks.
Honda has in the past been non-committal about lithium-ion, but that posture apparently is changing. And Honda recently was linked in lithium-ion talk with Japanese electronics giant and battery developer Sanyo Electric Co.
John German, American Honda's manager of environmental and energy analysis, said the coming lithium-ion battery formula -- the developer of which he wouldn't name -- does not enjoy extra capacity compared with known lithium-ion characteristics. Instead, the new chemistry is targeted at allowing the batteries to charge much more quickly.
This, in turn, will allow for an increased amount of battery capacity that can be assigned to actually powering the motor. And more power means the IMA system can be employed for larger, heavier vehicles.
In addition, German says the new batteries will be markedly cheaper.
Apart from potential for vehicles such as the Ridgeline midsized pickup or the Odyssey minivan, the extra IMA performance could mean a return of the Accord Hybrid - this time using a 4-cylinder engine instead of the first-generation Accord Hybrid's V6.
German says the new butt-kicker lithium-ion chemistry should be ready in about the same timeframe as GM's lithium-ion-dependent Chevrolet Volt "extended-range" electric vehicle, the car that put lithium-ion development on the hot seat.
That means sometime around 2010 for low-volume application, says German, but perhaps as much a five years or more from now for "large-scale" production runs. The timing could make the batteries possible for a production version of the sport-oriented, and presumably low-volume, CR-Z coupe.
German says the two issues with Honda's current IMA system - which uses nickel-metal hydride batteries - are space constraints and comparatively low power, limiting its "scalability" for larger, heavier models.
And while Honda brags about the slenderness of IMA's engine-enhancing electric motor - which is wedged between the engine and transmission - German says underhood space has become so valuable that even the currently required 1.5 inches or so is tough to engineer.
But Honda's advanced lithium-ion battery's potential for the midsize Accord must be tempting, as the company is no doubt anxious to get back in the game against Toyota's Camry Hybrid, of which Toyota reputedly has just a five-day inventory.
Honda's first Accord Hybrid was designed for performance enhancement, coupling the IMA system with the company's thrusty 3-liter V6.
Accord's loyal buyers didn't respond, however, and Honda dropped the Accord Hybrid after the '07 model year and before the next-generation model was introduced for '08.
While Toyota's hybrids keep selling well, German told Green Car Advisor, that he thinks Toyota invested in the wrong technology by opting for the "full" hybrid design instead of Honda's IMA mild hybrid system.
"We get 80 percent of the (full-hybrid) benefit at 60 percent of the cost," German insists.
By Bill Visnic, Senior Editor
TRAVERSE CITY, Mich. -- Honda Motor Co. is preparing for an all-new, advanced lithium-ion battery that will allow its engineers to extend Honda's Integrated Motor Assist hybrid-electric technology to larger vehicles, a senior company executive told Green Car Advisor during an annual auto-industry conference frequented by heavy-hitters from carmakers' management ranks.
Honda has in the past been non-committal about lithium-ion, but that posture apparently is changing. And Honda recently was linked in lithium-ion talk with Japanese electronics giant and battery developer Sanyo Electric Co.
John German, American Honda's manager of environmental and energy analysis, said the coming lithium-ion battery formula -- the developer of which he wouldn't name -- does not enjoy extra capacity compared with known lithium-ion characteristics. Instead, the new chemistry is targeted at allowing the batteries to charge much more quickly.
This, in turn, will allow for an increased amount of battery capacity that can be assigned to actually powering the motor. And more power means the IMA system can be employed for larger, heavier vehicles.
In addition, German says the new batteries will be markedly cheaper.
Apart from potential for vehicles such as the Ridgeline midsized pickup or the Odyssey minivan, the extra IMA performance could mean a return of the Accord Hybrid - this time using a 4-cylinder engine instead of the first-generation Accord Hybrid's V6.
German says the new butt-kicker lithium-ion chemistry should be ready in about the same timeframe as GM's lithium-ion-dependent Chevrolet Volt "extended-range" electric vehicle, the car that put lithium-ion development on the hot seat.
That means sometime around 2010 for low-volume application, says German, but perhaps as much a five years or more from now for "large-scale" production runs. The timing could make the batteries possible for a production version of the sport-oriented, and presumably low-volume, CR-Z coupe.
German says the two issues with Honda's current IMA system - which uses nickel-metal hydride batteries - are space constraints and comparatively low power, limiting its "scalability" for larger, heavier models.
And while Honda brags about the slenderness of IMA's engine-enhancing electric motor - which is wedged between the engine and transmission - German says underhood space has become so valuable that even the currently required 1.5 inches or so is tough to engineer.
But Honda's advanced lithium-ion battery's potential for the midsize Accord must be tempting, as the company is no doubt anxious to get back in the game against Toyota's Camry Hybrid, of which Toyota reputedly has just a five-day inventory.
Honda's first Accord Hybrid was designed for performance enhancement, coupling the IMA system with the company's thrusty 3-liter V6.
Accord's loyal buyers didn't respond, however, and Honda dropped the Accord Hybrid after the '07 model year and before the next-generation model was introduced for '08.
While Toyota's hybrids keep selling well, German told Green Car Advisor, that he thinks Toyota invested in the wrong technology by opting for the "full" hybrid design instead of Honda's IMA mild hybrid system.
"We get 80 percent of the (full-hybrid) benefit at 60 percent of the cost," German insists.
08-15-2008, 03:08 PM
#770
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Trackruner228
Well as long as it does better than the old one as far as MPG goes.
09-24-2008, 11:29 PM
#771
Suzuka Master
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New & Future Cars: Honda S3000
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=7109
At long last, Honda will completely revamp its high-revving roadster.
By Sam Mitani • Photo-illustration by Larson
November 2008
At long last, Honda will completely revamp its high-revving roadster.
By Sam Mitani • Photo-illustration by Larson
November 2008
A typhoon of rumors has been swirling around Honda's headquarters in Tokyo, Japan, about the company's next generation of sports cars. While we have already seen spy photos of the future NSX, we have not seen anything about the next-generation S2000. A source close to the company revealed that Honda is indeed in the process of building such a car, but wouldn't disclose specific details.
The OSM (Open Study Model) concept car definitely raised some eyebrows recently at the London show, but that car was just a convertible version of the CR-Z hybrid sports car shown at the Tokyo Motor Show last year. The OSM was penned by Honda's European design team, and our people tell us that the real S2000 successor will have much more influence and input from Japan. Also, the CR-Z and OSM have been engineered as front-engine/front-wheel-drive models, and the S2000 successor will no doubt be a rear-wheel-drive car. So apparently the OSM has nothing to do with the S2000 successor. Or does it...?
There's the possibility that the OSM may very well be a design study of the next S2000, wearing the veil of an open-top CR-Z to throw us off. There was also a sighting of a mysterious prototype sports car near Honda's R&D headquarters in Japan that seemed to share the OSM's proportions, yet looked completely different. Could this be another design study of the S2000? We think so, so we took pieces of that car, melded it with the OSM and came up with this image, a handsome car with an Audi R8-esque face, a long hood and a profile reminiscent of the current S2000.
As for what will go under the hood is still unclear. There have been rumors that Honda may equip the car with a V-6, perhaps a new 3.0-liter or the 3.5-liter in the Acura TL, thus the name S3000. In the U.S., this makes sense because it would give the car much more low-end torque (something we Americans love), not to mention improved smoothness and quietness for freeway driving.
With such an engine, you can expect power to be in the 280- to 300-bhp vicinity, enabling a 0–60 run in the sub-5-second range. The more probable choice is a 2.2- to 2.5-liter inline-4. Honda, which has traditionally shied away from big-displacement powerplants, may feel that a 4-cylinder engine makes more marketing sense in this age of high gasoline prices. There's also talk of a simple hybrid system.
Only those directly involved with the next-generation S2000 project know for sure what the car will be like. We'll know for sure in 2011, after Honda releases the NSX and CR-Z.
The OSM (Open Study Model) concept car definitely raised some eyebrows recently at the London show, but that car was just a convertible version of the CR-Z hybrid sports car shown at the Tokyo Motor Show last year. The OSM was penned by Honda's European design team, and our people tell us that the real S2000 successor will have much more influence and input from Japan. Also, the CR-Z and OSM have been engineered as front-engine/front-wheel-drive models, and the S2000 successor will no doubt be a rear-wheel-drive car. So apparently the OSM has nothing to do with the S2000 successor. Or does it...?
There's the possibility that the OSM may very well be a design study of the next S2000, wearing the veil of an open-top CR-Z to throw us off. There was also a sighting of a mysterious prototype sports car near Honda's R&D headquarters in Japan that seemed to share the OSM's proportions, yet looked completely different. Could this be another design study of the S2000? We think so, so we took pieces of that car, melded it with the OSM and came up with this image, a handsome car with an Audi R8-esque face, a long hood and a profile reminiscent of the current S2000.
As for what will go under the hood is still unclear. There have been rumors that Honda may equip the car with a V-6, perhaps a new 3.0-liter or the 3.5-liter in the Acura TL, thus the name S3000. In the U.S., this makes sense because it would give the car much more low-end torque (something we Americans love), not to mention improved smoothness and quietness for freeway driving.
With such an engine, you can expect power to be in the 280- to 300-bhp vicinity, enabling a 0–60 run in the sub-5-second range. The more probable choice is a 2.2- to 2.5-liter inline-4. Honda, which has traditionally shied away from big-displacement powerplants, may feel that a 4-cylinder engine makes more marketing sense in this age of high gasoline prices. There's also talk of a simple hybrid system.
Only those directly involved with the next-generation S2000 project know for sure what the car will be like. We'll know for sure in 2011, after Honda releases the NSX and CR-Z.
09-25-2008, 12:15 AM
#774
Please keep it under 3000 lbs or at least not much more than that.... it looks good for a concept too! I think this just shat on the Genesis coupe....
All new DOHC 3.0 high revving V6
or even a torqueier 2.5 4-cyl would be good.
.... a younger brother to the NSX that I can afford in a couple years, hopefully
Building off of the S2000, I have a feeling its going to be great.
All new DOHC 3.0 high revving V6
or even a torqueier 2.5 4-cyl would be good.
.... a younger brother to the NSX that I can afford in a couple years, hopefully
Building off of the S2000, I have a feeling its going to be great.
09-25-2008, 12:25 AM
#775
Senior Moderator
Ooo!
09-25-2008, 08:37 AM
#781
Oderint dum metuant.
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The S has always needed a six. They should at least have it as an option on the new one, if not standard.
And I know you can't trust artist's renderings, but that does look good.
And I know you can't trust artist's renderings, but that does look good.
09-25-2008, 10:27 AM
#785
The sizzle in the Steak
Please don't ruin this one too, Honda. 
09-25-2008, 11:16 AM
#792
I drive a Subata.
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ooOOOh
09-25-2008, 11:39 AM
#793
The sizzle in the Steak
09-25-2008, 01:32 PM
#797
Senior Moderator
Hopefully they stick a new/good V6 in it and keep it good looking
09-25-2008, 02:44 PM
#799
Suzuka Master
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