VTEC Racer

Don't know how many times I've gotta say it, but this is just the internet. If you're gonna let yourself get butt-hurt by someone you've never met, then maybe you're just too sensitive for this place. There are plenty of people here that are more abrasive than I am, yet you've chosen to single me out. Where is your rant for them? It's a tough world out there, get used to it.

Hapa DC5

Doesn't matter Nancy. You're dealing with people, plain and simple. If you want to be a cocksucker then so be it. All I asked you for was a source, which you can't produce and have been called out by several others. So you have all this jelly, but no toast.

I'm sure you act the exact same way in "real life" yet you still wonder why you have so many problems with people here? Remember you've had next to zero interactions with me and we've both been here for quite sometime. So you reap what you sow baby girl.

You treat people the way you want to be treated, internet, at home or the bath houses you frequent.

VTEC Racer

Nothing legitimate to say so you've resorted to insults and name-calling. Sounds about right for you.

Hapa DC5

I gave a direct response to you. You replied with a deflection in return, sounds about right for you.

So where's the source about the materials being down graded?

Yeah... thought so.

VTEC Racer

That was a response? I'm afraid to see what a jab from you would be.

Anyways... I don't have the type of source that you're looking for. But you've had a senior moderator here confirm that he has heard the same exact thing (along with a couple other people) directly from Honda execs AND that it was hinted during a shareholder meeting.

You can believe whatever you want, as long as it goes along with your own beliefs.

Hapa DC5

Look for my pictures in the member pic thread. You can see what a jab would look like from me. Your keyboard warrior days may come to an end fairly quickly.

The bolded is all you needed to type and I wouldn't have called you out on it. Remember, have I ever before? I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt, you decided to take it to another level. So my question was answered by you and further derailing this thread isn't necessary.

Have a good night.

VTEC Racer

It shouldn't have started to begin with.

Hapa DC5

Social ineptness transcends through the internet.

VTEC Racer

In this case, bigger is not better.

Hapa DC5

Honda felt the same way.

VTEC Racer

Awesome.

Hapa DC5

What kind of car do you drive since I have your attention?

MTEAZY

WTF does all this have to do with the Civic? ttribe call off your goons

Hapa DC5

LOL Mr. always on topic himself.

The irony.

ttribe

Leave me out of your drama, please.

fsttyms1

Will you 2 Donkeys KNOCK IT OFF! If you want to bicker PM each other.

MTEAZY

What's a goon to a goblin..

Ken1997TL

Time-out.

Come back in here tomorrow.

Sarlacc

pot, kettle, VTECH Ricer...

Majofo

I always miss out on these bashings..

Yumcha

Hopefully, no more.

Back on topic, guys!

jwong77

Anybody know why Honda went away from the excellent wheel fitment on the previous gen Civic? I really thought they were onto something back when they decided to do that.

Just compare.
2012


2007

AZuser

They were probably aiming for best-in-class higher ground clearance.

Hapa DC5

Look at how much more aerodynamic those side mirrors are!

TSX69

Honda Civic 1.6 i-DTEC 1st Drive

Price: From £19,400, Civic (petrol) prices from £16,955

Engine: 1.6-litre four-cylinder turbodiesel

Transmission: 6-speed manual

Power: 120 PS at 4,000 rpm

Torque: 300 Nm at 2,000 rpm

Fuel consumption (combined cycle): 78.5 mpg*

CO2 emissions: 94 g/km*

Top speed: 129 mph

Acceleration (0-62 mph): 10.5 seconds

All real car fans like Honda. It’s very good at engines, and you always have the feeling that it’s just about the most “engineering-led” mainstream car manufacturer. Sometimes, though, you’d have to admit that the product planners and marketing people should probably have been allowed a bit more influence.

Honda didn’t produce its own diesel engine, usually considered essential for success in the European market, until 2003 - although predictably, when it did turn up, it was 1 that set a very high standard indeed. That engine, which had a capacity of 2.2 litres, was subsequently replaced by another of the same size which has been the only diesel engine offered in UK market Honda cars.

While the 2.2 still does a pretty good job, especially in the latest version of the CR-V SUV, the centre of gravity, especially in the market for Golf-sized cars such as the Civic, has shifted towards smaller, lighter lower-emission diesels with a capacity of 1.5 or 1.6 litres, That’s where the big sales are. But Honda, absorbed in fascinating projects like the CR-Z, the only petrol hybrid model with a manual gearbox, and the brilliant low-volume hydrogen fuel-cell-powered FCX Clarity, failed to provide a diesel engine of that size - a big self-inflicted disadvantage, especially in the emissions and taxation conscious company car market.

Until now that is, because Honda has finally bowed to the inevitable and at last introduced its own 1.6. It appears first in the Civic but will also make its way into the CR-V next year. In both cases, it will slot in alongside the existing 2.2, rather than replace it. Like Honda’s original diesel launch back in 2003, the arrival of the 1.6 is long overdue, but history is also repeating itself in one other respect; the new engine makes up for its late appearance by leap-frogging much of the competition. That much is clear even before you try it – with a power output of 120 PS, CO2 emissions of 94g/km and combined cycle fuel consumption of 78.5 mpg, the new engine puts the Civic towards the top of the class for both power on the one hand and economy on the other.

And the on-the-road experience largely lives up to the promise held out by those figures. The new engine is smooth and quiet. There’s no real diesel clatter, but there’s a slight drone in the mid-range, and that’s about it. A stop-start system cuts the engine at rest and a smooth new six-speed manual gearbox makes the most of the power that’s available when you’re on the move.

The other notable thing about the new Honda diesel is that it’s very light for its type, which means that the Civic escapes that nose-heavy feeling that affects most other smallish diesel cars.

For the rest, the Civic is pretty much as before. Its unusual interior, in particular its split level, space-ship-style part digital/part dial-based instrument panel is a bit of an acquired taste, but this car is also, as the old estate agent’s cliché has it, deceptively spacious. In fact Honda reckons it provides more room for passengers and their luggage than just about any of its competitors, a claim that seems unlikely given the Civic’s distinctly flowing, unboxy appearance but which does seem less implausible once you start poking around in the luggage compartment and trying out the rear seat.

The new 1.6 diesel engine will provide Honda with a big boost, especially in the company car market, but now the company needs to turn its attention to another pressing issue. Like the other Japanese manufacturers, Honda has been caught napping by the European car-makers’ advances in the down-sizing and turbocharging of petrol engines in Golf-sized cars, and it has nothing to rival Ford’s 1.0-litre 3-cylinder EcoBoost engine, or Volkswagen’s 1.2 TSI power unit. But we know Honda is working on it and we know from past experience that in this area too, Honda’s effort, while late, is likely to be very good indeed.

Majofo

I doubt it will make it to our shores.

Hapa DC5

That even looks really good! I bet it has superior ground clearance to the stupid Elantra

Yumcha

@ diesel version!

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

yea...few problems with having diesel here.. from http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...diesel/4330313

1.) Diesel get taxed higher than gasoline in the US (opposite in Europe)

2.) Diesel is slightly more expensive than gasoline on average in the US (opposite in Europe)

3.) Diesel engines cost much more to manufacturer -> increasing overall vehicle price. The time it takes to "pay back" the $1500 to $3000 cost premium of a diesel engine with fill-ups at the pump, is very long at current U.S. fuel prices ($2.65). Consider a hypothetical $20,000 gas car that gets 30 mpg (3.33 gallons per 100 miles). Check the diesel engine option for $1500 and you'd see a 30 percent efficiency improvement (39 mpg or 2.56 g/100m). Over a 15,000-mile year, the diesel will save about 115 gallons. With our fuel prices, it would take more than four years to make back that $1500 investment. At six bucks a gallon for Euro diesel versus seven for gas, the payback is less than two years.

4.) According to Toyota, it's cheaper for them to develop a Prius hybrid system than a 50-state diesel engine. The opposite is true for Audi. In general, European makers are better at making diesel engines, while the Japanese are better with hybrids

5.) Reputation. Hybrid is considered as green for most. Diesel is considered as...not so clean. It will take time to convert people

6.) US emission regulations are stricter (i.e. The 50-state light-duty vehicle limit for emissions of nitrogen oxides is 0.07 grams per mile. In Western Europe, the limit is 0.29.)
Urea is usually needed. But that adds cost and a longer pay back period. My understanding is that the US regulations will get progressively even tighter.

Yumcha

Sure...but, in my opinion and what I've read, diesel >>>>>>>>>> hybrid.


Period.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I wasn't really saying if diesel is better than hybrid, or if hybrid is better than diesel. I'm mostly talking about the challenges in bringing diesel engines over for the long term, especially for companies that don't have as much expertise in it.

Sarlacc

Diesel has become very popular in the states in the last couple years.

And its quite clean...CA emission has made sure of that.

Hell, even the engines last longer (less moving parts)

And when gas spiked at $5 gal here in CA, Diesel was cheaper than 87.

Majofo

These fuel efficient diesels aren't on our roads for political reasons. Hopefully someday we'll get them.

Moog-Type-S

^^ Plenty of German makes are building them and putting them on our roads

Sarlacc

Americans will be as well.

Diesel Grand Cherokee supposed to hit our shores next month.

Moog-Type-S

Plenty of diesels here and on the way.

2013 Diesel Cars in the USA: Here’s the Lineup
http://www.practicalenvironmentalist...the-lineup.htm

biker

The really long term (20+ yrs) answer is some sort of diesel. When fossils get too expensive to burn in an engine, man made biofuels (not hydrogen, nor electric nor any other "green" alternative) will be the only alternative. Those typically will need a diesel cycle engine. The diesel markup is likely to become less as more makers use DI in the gas engines (take out the spark plug from a DI gas engine and you have a diesel engine) - the only extra is the NOX emissions reduction surcharge.

With Obama in for another 4 years it is unlikely the much stricter EPA mileage rules will be postponed/removed. To get thsoe kind of numbers (fleet avg of around 50MPG) diesel will have to be in the equation even before the above happens. This 1.6D will likely make it's way to NA in the not too distant future.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

It really comes down to what each manufacturer is good at I think. Toyota and Honda will continue focusing on hybrids while the Europeans will focus on Diesel tech that will be future proof (i.e. pass future emission regulations without significant costs).

SSFTSX

They say sales can triple. this will make it lower cost.

F23A4

Since we've digressed a bit onto the subject of Diesel vs Hybrid, here was an interesting head to head comparing the 2011 Volkswagen Touareg V6 TDI vs. 2011 Touareg Hybrid, albeit not a particularly mainstream vehicle.