BMW: 5-Series News

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Old 10-31-2005, 08:52 AM
  #921  
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Originally Posted by Beltfed
None of them feel that expensive, a 7 Series feels expensive as does an Audi A8.

Don't confuse a simplistic layout with quality, which the 5series clearly has.


In the end, buy what you like.

I agree. different strokes for different folks. Just not a fan of simplistic layouts. Rather have some nice wood and lots of gadgets.
Old 01-17-2006, 07:11 PM
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New BMW 5-Series and Mercedes E-Class Spy Photos - - by Hans G. Lehmann - - Source: http://www.germancarfans.com/

The BMW 5-series which has been on the market since spring 2003 will come out in spring 2007 as a restyled version. The photos are showing a prototype during a test drive in the city traffic of Munich. It is featuring new big air intakes in the front skirt and a modified rear end.




Old 01-17-2006, 07:28 PM
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can't see much of the changes....still ugly as sin....still one of the worst designed interiors in luxury car...and in a bimmer, period.
Old 01-17-2006, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by The Sarlacc


can't see much of the changes....still ugly as sin....still one of the worst designed interiors in luxury car...and in a bimmer, period.
I can't see the changes as well. My dad has a 545i in Black and the design has grown on me. It actually has great lines and if you look at the cars coming out, they are copying Chris Bangle's design. I didn't like the "Bangle BMWs" when they first came out, but I think they were ahead of their time. As for the interior, it's not as nice as an A6 and the I-drive blows, but it's very nice.
Old 01-17-2006, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Maximized
I can't see the changes as well. My dad has a 545i in Black and the design has grown on me. It actually has great lines and if you look at the cars coming out, they are copying Chris Bangle's design. I didn't like the "Bangle BMWs" when they first came out, but I think they were ahead of their time. As for the interior, it's not as nice as an A6 and the I-drive blows, but it's very nice.
I-Drive is one bimmers biggest fuck ups to date. Why they cant just admit it and get rid of it is beyond me.

I dont hate the outside as much I used to it...but its still not appealing.

The interior blows. period. Both the A6 and the new GS kill the bimmer in the interior design dept.

Its amazing how the got the 6 series so right inside and out, and the 5 so wrong.
Old 01-17-2006, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by The Sarlacc
Its amazing how the got the 6 series so right inside and out, and the 5 so wrong.
First off, the interior the 5 and 6 series are not all that different.

BMW didn't do anything wrong, the E60 5series is selling extremely well.

I happen to think the 5series is one Bangle's best designs.

Also, the latest I-drive setup really isn't that hard to use......not the most intuitive but anyone with half a brain could figure it out.

The facelift is very minor, I actually prefer the lower flared lip on the rear bumper that seems to now be gone on the facelift spyshots.
Old 01-17-2006, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Beltfed
First off, the interior the 5 and 6 series are not all that different.

BMW didn't do anything wrong, the E60 5series is selling extremely well.

I happen to think the 5series is one Bangle's best designs.

Also, the latest I-drive setup really isn't that hard to use......not the most intuitive but anyone with half a brain could figure it out.

The facelift is very minor, I actually prefer the lower flared lip on the rear bumper that seems to now be gone on the facelift spyshots.
The 3 and 5 are similar. The 6 is very sporty and sleek.

The 5 interiors used to be very driver oriented...now they are "art."

I-drive sucks no matter how you slice it. easier for some people to figure out then others, yes, but i played with it a couple times. I figured it out...doesnt make it any less annoying.

Of course its selling well. its a bmw. lots people out there would buy a turd with wheels glued on so much as its got the famous blue propellor emblem on it.

From a mechanical/driving standpoint...I understand. The car is amazing as it ever was. I've owned an old 5, my dad had one (bought from the factory in Munich while we lived there.) and various friends and relatives have owned them/let me drive them.

But from the most subjective standpoint, where we all have our own non-arguable opinions, I think the asthetic design is crap, in and out.
Old 01-17-2006, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by The Sarlacc
But from the most subjective standpoint, where we all have our own non-arguable opinions, I think the asthetic design is crap, in and out.
Which in the end doesn't mean anything, because you aren't voting with you wallet.

E60 5series = Success.

Not all people are buying them cause of BMW being a status symbol, the car is actually better than most if not all cars in its class....just like the 3series.

I don't mind I-drive, hardly even have to touch it except for using Nav.....everything else is available at one's fingertips.

Also the E60 is driver oriented, the console is right there with everything at your grasp (my oldman has a 550i). Not much different feeling than my M3.
Old 01-17-2006, 09:08 PM
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i'll take 5 over any other competitors.

also, it took me 2 years to like the 5 series. bangle was right, indeed.



bangle>you and i
Old 01-17-2006, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by The Sarlacc


can't see much of the changes....still ugly as sin....still one of the worst designed interiors in luxury car...and in a bimmer, period.

i despised it when it came out, but now i like it alot. very very strange. maybe bangle is 2 years ahead of us.


also, only americans hated the new 5 when it came out. i mean many of us hated with passion. i go to europe and asia alot, and most of them loved it when it came out.
Old 01-17-2006, 09:31 PM
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Bangle is a


I say this because the 5series has been out for awhile now and it still feels as if it just came out! IMO
Old 01-17-2006, 10:25 PM
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I don't see much change. Anyways, I think Bangle gets way too much credit. He's good, but too many associate him with certain designs as if he originated them. He pretty much exaggerated design cues that were already in place. The Toyota RAV4 had a more subtle form of the so-called "flame surfacing" on its lower body portion that is now associated with Bangle's designs. The notorious Bangle butt...look on most sedans prior to the 7-Series and you'll see it, in much more subtle form. All he did was made it that much more noticeable whereas everyone else was trying to previously camouflage it, since it functionally adds more trunk room, not exactly a design element.
Old 01-17-2006, 11:50 PM
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I-drive is horrible. I really can't get used to it. Why they can't stick with what works is beyond me. Otherwise the E60 5 series is a huge success. One thing I find funny is how MB and Lexus have copied Bangles design. Look at the new LS and GS for example, notice the similarities
Old 01-18-2006, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Maximized
One thing I find funny is how MB and Lexus have copied Bangles design. Look at the new LS and GS for example, notice the similarities

I notice more similarities of the M45 to the GS then I do to any bimmer

And toyota is taking styling cues from their european cars...that dont sell over here. So many car over there have a much more agressive shape...I can't if that is because of bungle, or he just copied it, took it to the next level and stole all the credit.

And the LS for years was called out for resembling a Sclass, and is now coming onto its own...with styling based on the LF-S concept. which looks nothing like a bangle design.
Old 01-18-2006, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by The Sarlacc
I notice more similarities of the M45 to the GS then I do to any bimmer

And toyota is taking styling cues from their european cars...that dont sell over here. So many car over there have a much more agressive shape...I can't if that is because of bungle, or he just copied it, took it to the next level and stole all the credit.

And the LS for years was called out for resembling a Sclass, and is now coming onto its own...with styling based on the LF-S concept. which looks nothing like a bangle design.
You don't see a 7 series influence in this??

Old 01-18-2006, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by The Sarlacc
I notice more similarities of the M45 to the GS then I do to any bimmer

And toyota is taking styling cues from their european cars...that dont sell over here. So many car over there have a much more agressive shape...I can't if that is because of bungle, or he just copied it, took it to the next level and stole all the credit.

And the LS for years was called out for resembling a Sclass, and is now coming onto its own...with styling based on the LF-S concept. which looks nothing like a bangle design.
The IS, GS, and new LS copied Bangle's design. A picture is worth a thousand words:
Old 01-18-2006, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Maximized
The IS, GS, and new LS copied Bangle's design. A picture is worth a thousand words:

I can see the 7 in the tail lights....overall 5 shape if I had to say I saw anything.

But like I said. These Lexus designs look more like some of the toyotas they have in Europe that they dont have here....which are much more sleek and attractive looking.

And have been before bangles bimmers I believe.
Old 01-18-2006, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Maximized
I can't see the changes as well. My dad has a 545i in Black and the design has grown on me. It actually has great lines and if you look at the cars coming out, they are copying Chris Bangle's design. I didn't like the "Bangle BMWs" when they first came out, but I think they were ahead of their time. As for the interior, it's not as nice as an A6 and the I-drive blows, but it's very nice.
I didn't like them when they came out, and I still don't like them now. A few other cars might have similar features (most notably the so-called "bangle butt") but these other cars look better, because they don't overdo it.

Being first is not a good thing if your car is still ugly. The Pontiac Aztec was first in some design areas and it's still aweful. You could say that the BMW 7-series copied the Aztek headlights somewhat but does that really give credit to Pontiac? Not in my book. Ugly cars are ugly cars, I don't care if they were the first to employ an ugly design feature.

For the 5-series, they should have done what they did with the 7-series and toned down the headlights and tail lights.
Old 01-18-2006, 04:46 PM
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I think they fixed my major complaint with idrive and put climate and radio buttons in.

the design has grown on me, i am very impressed with the new 3 series interior with sport package (although, since you have an option i would just skip idrive), the seats are sooo nice
Old 02-02-2006, 12:07 AM
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Source: Bavarian Brothers - - By Mike Monticello • Photos by Allan Rosenberg - - Source: http://www.roadandtrack.com/

Stuttgart, Germany — Comparing the BMW M5 with its coupe brother — the M6 — is like arguing over who's hotter: Jennifer Garner or Jessica Biel. What's the point? Any self-respecting guy would be happy with either. Same goes for the M5 and M6. But off to Germany we went, to answer this simple question: If you had to choose (the M5 or M6, not Garner or Biel), which would it be?

The M5 and M6 have many similarities, but the one thing that's identical is the drivetrain. And BMW's almighty, all-conquering 5.0-liter 90-degree V-10 is simply magical. This is a supremely advanced powerplant that uses individual throttle valves for each cylinder tied to an electronically controlled throttle-by-wire system; response is immediate. BMW's variable double-VANOS camshaft management continuously varies the valve timing to create better high-rpm power and a very consistent torque curve.





The result is one of the most free-revving engines ever, along with an insanely potent 500 bhp at 7750 rpm and 383 lb.-ft. of torque at 6100. Fire either one of these V-10s up and they sound…like complete rubbish, at least at idle; think of the uninspiring, industrial-sounding hum modern turbodiesels make. But give the engine full wood and it sounds exactly as Peter Egan described in his First Drive of the M6 in R&T's July 2005 issue: "…like a Formula 1 car with mufflers." It plays such a rippingly beautiful song up to its 8250-rpm redline that you find yourself running up and down through the gears just to hear it one more time.

All this power is harnessed to a 7-speed sequential M gearbox (SMG) operated either by steering-wheel paddles, a center console lever or you can just leave the system in full automatic. This third-generation SMG is far superior to any before, providing jerk-free (computer-controlled) clutch slips as you pull away from a stop. This is the only transmission available for the M5, though a true manual (that's right, with three pedals!) is said to be in the works for the M6. Incredibly quick (though abrupt) full-throttle shifts in the Drivelogic's sportiest setting (of 11 to choose from) mean both the M5 and M6 chirp the rear tires going into 3rd gear.

While this system (like Ferrari's F1 gearbox) is completely state-of-the-art, you do lose the driving pleasure associated with old-school techniques such as heel-and-toe downshifting. Personally, I'd also prefer the paddles to be steering-column mounted instead of wheel-mounted; as someone who shuffle-steers, it can get confusing as to where the proper paddle is.

Surprisingly, neither car feels as fast as their identical 4.1-second 0-60-mph times indicate, at least in real-world driving. Which is strange, because 4.1 is fast. Really fast. Faster than a Ferrari 612 Scaglietti, every Aston Martin and the Bentley Continental GT. Equally impressive are quarter-mile times of 12.4 sec. (the few cars barely quicker include supercars such as the Ferrari F430, Lamborghini Gallardo and Murciélago and the Ford GT), the lighter — by 265 lb. — M6 showing a higher trap speed of 118.1 mph versus the M5's 115.8. Of note, we used BMW's Formula 1-like launch control mode (which won't be available in the U.S.) to achieve our best times; after you initiate the system, all that's required is to keep your foot to the floor — the computer manages wheelspin. But it's only good for a couple of launches before the clutch heats up and the system automatically shuts down.

So why don't these M cars overwhelm us with their power ('cause you're thinking, 500 bhp is a lot of horses, right?) the way, say, a Dodge Viper does? We attribute it to the soft bottom end of the powerband combined with the lack of a real high-rpm rush. In the Ms, the rush comes on after 3000 rpm and then stays consistently thrusty all the way to redline, the finely tuned BMW engines thereby making the cars deceptively fast. The close-ratio 7-speed doesn't hurt acceleration times either.
The suspensions for the M5 and M6 are similar to the aluminum-intensive systems of the standard 5 and 6 Series, but optimized for the cars' much higher power and correspondingly greater cornering demands. They both use BMW's EDC (Electronic Damper Control), which provides for three different levels of suspension stiffness: Comfort, Normal and Sport. Swapping among the three modes, though, proved that Comfort is not that soft and Sport is not that much firmer than full soft. Why not make them more differentiated?

Dimensionally, the M5 and M6 are quite similar. In the interest of passenger space, the M5 rides on a 4.2-in.-longer wheelbase, yet the M6 is actually 0.3 in. longer than its 4-door sibling. The coupe is also 0.3 in. wider but 3.6 in. shorter in height, with a slightly narrower front track of 61.7 in. (vs. 62.2 for the M5) and a marginally wider rear track of 62.4 (vs. 61.7 for the M5). But what's key here is that the M6 is lighter than the M5 — 3770 lb. vs. 4035 — due in part to such weight-saving components as a carbon-fiber roof (the first in series production), carbon-fiber bumper supports and forged alloy wheels.

Both cars wear identical shoes — Continental SportContact 2 tires, size 255/40ZR-19 up front and 285/35ZR-19 at the rear. No doubt about it, the M6's double-5-spoke wheels look far sexier.

Although our seat-of-the-pants analysis told us the M6 is the scalpel of these two 2-ton Teutons, our track numbers say it's nowhere near a dominant performance, much like the "Does it really matter?" difference between Garner and Biel. The M5 slid to a 0.87g around the skidpad while the M6 managed 0.88g. The M6 showed its more nimble nature through the slalom course, averaging 69.5 mph, though the M5 was no slacker at 68.9. With identical brakes (14.7-in. cross-drilled and vented rotors up front and 14.6-in. cross-drilled and vented rotors at the rear), identical tires and relatively similar curb weights, it only makes sense that the braking numbers were a virtual dead heat: The M5 stopped in 120 ft. from 60 mph and 207 ft. from 80, while the M6 used 1 ft. less tarmac from 60 and 2 ft. more from 80. Pedal feel is extremely firm, just as we like it.

These are easy cars to drive fast, both on the Autobahn (where those big brakes give complete confidence that, yes, you will be able to slow down in time) and on back roads. The M6 has slightly quicker, more direct steering and as a whole feels more lively and nimble than the M5. But both exhibit handling manners near perfect for road cars, with steering neither darty nor too slow, and with excellent feedback.

Despite the 500 bhp, don't expect Cadillac CTS-V-like huge corner-exit oversteer. BMW's variable M differential lock — which increases the locking force as the speed difference between the driven wheels rises — sees to that, optimizing traction; but if really provoked (with the DSC yaw and traction control system turned off), the M5 and M6 will provide smoky slideshows. While we wish the cars had a bit less understeer (no doubt dialed in to keep over-ambitious drivers from oversteering off the road), truth is you'll be hard-pressed to find two more competent, confidence-inspiring cars for high-speed traveling.
Both cars are distinguished from their lesser brethren by new front air dams with brake and engine cooling ducts, side sills, flared fenders, new mirrors and new rear fascias from which a typical M quad exhaust sprouts. And, of course, M-logo side gills. The M6 is the beauty queen of the two, its sleek coupe shape and raked windshield far outweighing its ugly trunklid.

Hop into either the M5 or M6, grab onto the thick red and blue-stitched M leather-wrapped steering wheel…and you're not immediately certain which car you're in; both have similar twin-hood dash layouts, the central one for the iDrive/navigation system. The M6, however, has a flowing, more cohesive, driver-oriented center console versus the M5's more traditional setup. Both of our cars were equipped with BMW's optional ($1000) head-up display, with digital speed and current-gear indicator (the latter helpful when you have seven of them!), handy for keeping eyes on the road.

Our M5's seats had the optional active width adjustment ($1900), which means the bolsters automatically move to hold you in place as you enter a corner. This might be fun for some, but to have a seat start groping you mid-corner is downright distracting. Luckily, it can be turned off.

The M6 has more laterally supportive seats, the bolsters of which are power adjustable. By a person. But the M5 has a more upright driving position, giving a greater view of the road ahead. Of course, the M5 is a lot more practical, with seating for five along with adequate head and leg room for rear-seat passengers. As a low-slung coupe, the M6 lacks rear-seat head room and the deeply sculpted bucket-like rear seats would be comfortable, except that the seatbacks are too upright.

Although the cars we tested were European specification, the M5 is now on sale in the U.S. at a base price of $81,200, which makes the M5 — dare we say it — a bargain in the high-priced world of well-bred road burners. The M6 won't be on sale in the States until May, with an estimated price of $97,200.

So how do you choose between the M5 and M6? If you need space, the M5 is the one. For those who don't, the M6 performs ever so slightly better according to the numbers. According to the seat of our pants, however, the M6 feels much better, making it the purist's choice (though at a premium of $16,000). As for styling, well, it's not even a question. Every German we came across gave the M6 a third look, whereas the M5 barely received a passing glance. Germans know their cars, and they love the M6.

Old 02-02-2006, 12:11 AM
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12.4 is impressive for the M5 but not impressive for the M6 IMO.
Old 02-02-2006, 02:03 AM
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agreed. it is almost 300lb lighter than m5
Old 02-02-2006, 08:14 AM
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BMW is totally out of control. $106k for an M6?
Old 02-02-2006, 09:21 AM
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^ No kidding
Old 02-02-2006, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
12.4 is impressive for the M5 but not impressive for the M6 IMO.
Not impressive?? It's a 3800 lbs luxury coupe. It's damn impressive and if you notice the 118 trap, this car has a lot more in it. The Conti's simply cannot put the power down effectively. A 118 trap equals high 11s with traction.
Old 05-18-2006, 09:57 AM
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New pics...

Old 05-18-2006, 10:05 AM
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i actually liked the 5 series rear, that sucks ^
Old 05-18-2006, 11:21 AM
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Oh God I hope not. Those rear lights look like full LEDs, like on the previous Cadillac Seville (before they changed it to the individual lights on the STS). It should look hot when fully lit, but the overshall shape is pretty boring.
Old 05-18-2006, 02:01 PM
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those tails are horrible, almost GS-like in shape.
Old 05-18-2006, 03:03 PM
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that can't be real. 5's rear is awesome.
Old 05-18-2006, 05:41 PM
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That rear screams Lexus.
Old 05-18-2006, 05:58 PM
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refresh soo soon? wat was wrong with the current one?
Old 05-18-2006, 09:26 PM
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I'm calling on the chops above.
Old 05-18-2006, 09:42 PM
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i never really dug the e60 until i drove one. a good friend has a 525xi with sports and premium packages. i think almost anyone who hates the car will eat their own words after driving it for even 2-3 hours. it drives awesome, and its a very solid car with pretty good handling. the idrive is pretty sweet too, like beltfed said, anyone with half a brain can figure it out in a few minutes. IMO the new infiniti Ms are on one of the ugliest cars on the road today...on paper it seems like a fair comparison, but in real life its clearly not. also, the post above that claims japanese cars feel more solid than german cars...go close the door of a 3 series, and than close one on a TL. HUGE difference IMO...
Old 05-18-2006, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by goldmemberer
I'm calling on the chops above.
I agree. Who knows how true these images are. The rear's lights are lifted off of the GS, and they're not an improvement over the Lexus' either. The front, very similar to the 3. If these images are accurate, it's interesting to see BMW reverting back to make very close front fascias of their cars again.
Old 05-19-2006, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by njzprettyboy
also, the post above that claims japanese cars feel more solid than german cars...go close the door of a 3 series, and than close one on a TL. HUGE difference IMO...


That's because the TL is built in OHIO, and not Japan
Old 05-21-2006, 09:48 AM
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The sad part is that you're not lying with the Ohio comment. Alot of people would say that the acura's out of ohio arent different than the ones in japan, but all the people on this site who have been around a real japanese legend or an imported teg or inspyre know that there is a significant difference in build quality. Not to say that ours is bad, just that theirs is better.
Old 05-21-2006, 10:02 AM
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The TSX feels more solid to me than the TL, but I wouldn't necessarily hold the Ohio assembly against the TL ... unless I was comparing it to the Japanese-made Lexus ES or Infiniti G35, etc
Old 08-01-2006, 05:42 PM
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http://www.germancarfans.com/spyphot...003.mini1L.jpg

http://www.germancarfans.com/spyphot...003.mini2L.jpg

http://www.germancarfans.com/spyphot...003.mini3L.jpg

http://www.germancarfans.com/spyphot...003.mini4L.jpg

by Hans G. Lehmann
Copyright by Lehmann Photo-Syndication
08-01-2006
Launch in Spring 2007

BMW will launch next year in spring a mildly restyled BMW 5-Series. The photos are showing two shots of the interior including the new automatic shift lever, and a sedan and station wagon featuring new air intakes in the front skirt and a smoother rear skirt. With this facelift, BMW intends to put the 5-series in a better market position against the recently released restyled Mercedes E-Class.
Source: www.germancarfans.com
Old 08-01-2006, 06:45 PM
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That stick is ugly


Quick Reply: BMW: 5-Series News



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