Edward'TLS

Now, following your logic of always using aftermarket tires to mask Honda/Acura vehicles' inferior handling, but this time around for the CTS.

"Just give the CTS some high performance aftermarket tires, then it will run rings around the TLX."

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

lol that's why it's called the TLX and not the TL anymore.

CTS went to 5-series class, while TL and TSX are not gone with the TLX coming in to be in the 3-series class. One sells ~1500-1800/month, while the other does 3500-4000/month.

kurtatx

IMHO, Cadillac made a mistake doing that with the CTS as the ATS is just not as good as the old CTS was. Much like filling the TSX hole with the lesser ILX, Cadillac has made a misstep.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I thought the ATS is a solid effort, especially when it comes to its chassis. But with ATS competing with 3-series, CTS against 5-series, and the CT6 against the 7-series, Cadillac is heading to the right direction IMO. Cadillac will need a bit more time to get the other things right though (engine, tranny, interior, tuning, etc).

With that said, I think the main mistake with recent Cadillac models is the pricing. Take the ATS as an example, its pricing closely aligns with the 3-series trim vs trim. For the same amount of money, I'd imagine most people would pick the 3-series over the ATS since the 3-series is well known and is better overall.

csmeance

The 3 series is a 3-series. It's the honda accord of the euro world. There's no dethroning it right now. Cadillac needs to get a dose of reality. They need to be 5K cheaper and need to make sure their cars can last in the long run vs a 3-series. The ATS's cluster looked like garbage to me and the car didn't seem like it'd age well.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

lol, yes, that cluster is simply horrible....

Cadillac needs to get everything right before it can ask for 3-series money. I loaded ATS 2.0T is at $55k...........

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

still doing better than Acura

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yes BMW is doing better than Acura no kidding.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

caddy, foo.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Well, what do you mean by "still doing better" then? That's pretty vague.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

tongue in cheek.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

lol, sorry iforyou.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

haha no worries man!

fsttyms1

Caddy, Yes they are in design language/execution and improvements. While it doesnt happen overnight Caddy seems to be getting it and what they need to do to compete with the big boys. Give them a little more time, they will get it right. Acura?? One could only hope they open their eyes, figure out where they really want to fit in in the bigger picture and start designing and giving us the cars that are needed to do so.

kurtatx

Accavitti has to go. Until he does, expect more of the same. So much brand identity crisis in Honda North America.

If the "Mini NSX" gets a Honda badge, we know Acura is a thing of the past.

TacoBello

It's more than just Accavitti. At this point they just need to clean house and start fresh. Obviously not going to happen because I'm sure they care too much about the feelings of their lost and out to lunch employees.

Very little of what that company does makes sense to the plethora of people on this Acura forum. And yet they keep chugging a long. Granted, things can't change over night, but its been years of floundering, since even the 4G TL was introduced back in '09. And they stubbornly, yet weakly, continue to row to their own tune

TacoBello

Honestly, at this point, maybe Acura being a thing of the past is a good thing. Besides a different design language between the two (and admittedly, not hugely different), there is little difference between the two.

Kill the TLX. Let the Accord continue its reign.

Slap a Honda badge on the new NSX, like it will have in most places around the world.

Offer another trim level on the Civic and kill the ILX.

Bring the RDX over.

Kill the MDX by adding another trim level to the Pilot. Then again, spruce up the Pilot a bit more to make room for the RDX below it.

And the RLX? At this point, just kill it. What's the point.

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

I'm seeing tons of mdx's and tlx's on the road lately. even starting to see rlx's more frequently. the new nsx packs a lot of value for a $150k super car. seems like things are looking up if you ask me.

...still hoping for some type-r or type-s tlx/ilx variants.

TacoBello

There have always been a lot of mdxs around. It's Acura's bread and butter. But to keep the company going because of one model doesn't make much sense. The new accord is snipping at the TLXs heals in a major way. Sales numbers still aren't that great for the TLX and by killing it off it would likely help the accord sales.

SSFTSX

you are writing nonsense. people buy Acura because of separate dealer network and not have wait in crowd of honda dealer. Acura dealers are strategically located through out major metropolitan areas.
Acura sales increasing far rapidly than Honda.

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

rdx is a top seller too, but I'm talking more 'jewel eye' models. I'm sure I'll start seeing a lot of the 16 rdx's soon.

I don't see that the accord is that close to the tlx. same company at the end of the day either way. if acura moves up market that will cost more money, which doesn't seem to be acura's MO.

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

seriously?!

kurtatx

I'll be honest with you, I don't see this happening. Honda has ruined its own brand to the point no one is going to cross shop anything more premium with a Honda. People are more likely to cross shop an MDX with a Bimmer, Audi, etc than they are to cross shop a pilot with the same.

Killing the MDX would severely damage Honda.

AZuser

Accord Touring is $34K. Base 2.4 TLX is $32K and it won't have all the tech the MMC Accord will be getting which includes:

- Apple CarPlay and Android Auto (not available on any TLX)
- New 7-inch Display Audio touchscreen interface and HD radio
- Honda Sensing™ which includes:

• Collision Mitigation Braking System™ (CMBS™)
• Forward Collision Warning (FCW)
• Lane Keeping Assist (LKAS)
• Road Departure Mitigation (RDM)
• Lane Departure Warning (LDW)
• Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC)

- Multi-Angle Rearview Camera
- Remote engine start
- 19-inch wheels
- Heated rear seats
- 60/40 split and folding rear seat
- Front and rear parking sensors
- Rain-sensing windshield wipers


Looking at http://www.acura.com/Features.aspx?m...Compare+Models, to get similar features, you'd have to get the 2.4 TLX with Tech package which is $36K. For $2k more, what does it have that the Accord Touring doesn't? P-AWS, an 8 speed DCT, an Integrated Dynamics System, perforated Milano premium leather-trimmed interior, and a slightly quieter cabin.

For $2K less, what does the Accord Touring have that the 2.4 TLX w/Tech doesn't? A V6 engine, upgraded 19-inch wheels, Remote engine start, Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC), Front and rear parking sensors, Collision Mitigation Braking System™ (CMBS™), Road Departure Mitigation (RDM), LED fog lights

A similarly equipped TLX would be the $40,000 3.5 TLX with Tech package. For $6K more, what will it have that the Accord Touring won't? 18-inch (not 19-inch like on the Accord) wheels, P-AWS, a 9-speed auto, an Integrated Dynamics System, 8-way power seat, perforated Milano premium leather-trimmed interior, and a slightly quieter cabin.

The 2.4 TLX with Tech and 3.5 TLX with Tech sure looks a lot like an Accord Touring to me. And the Accord Touring is $2,000 to $6,000 less.

SSFTSX

V6 engine cost alot more to maintain and fuel economy in city poor. very small portion of Accord sales V6. you can look at dealer inventory.
TLX 2.4tech much nicer interior, better dealer with loaner cars, better music system, better resale values.

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

seems like you set out to undermine the tlx in this post. for example, I'm pretty sure you can get 19's and remote start on the tlx. the same comparisons could be made between tl's and accords in years past as well. regardless, tlx is a step up from the accord, and people are buying them.

years back when I was shopping for my current car, the accord was not an option for me, and I don't think most people cross shop the accord with the tlx now. tlx sales and acura sales in general are doing very well, better than honda actually:

TLX, ILX Fuel Acura May Sales Increases | The News Wheel

AZuser

Don't tell me you actually believe their 43.5% increase year over year in sedan sales smoke and mirrors mumbo jumbo?

May 2015 Acura ILX sales were 1,673 vs 1,629 in May 2014. An increase of 2.7%
May 2015 Acura RLX sales were 239 vs 324 in May 2014. A decrease of 23.4%

Acura TLX sales were 4,352. There were no TLX sales in May 2014 because it wasn't even out yet. This means that Acura's comparing sales of a brand new less than 1 model year old TLX to sales of a 6 yr old and discontinued 2G TSX and a 6 yr old and discontinued 4G TL.

Do you or Acura really expect 6 yr old and discontinued models to sell as well as brand new models? It's only natural to see sales taper off near the end of their model life.

For May 2015:

Acura TLX sales were 4,352
Acura TSX sales were 4
Acura TL sales were 10
______________________
Total: 4,366

For May 2014:

TSX sales were 941
TL sales were 1,480
______________________
Total: 2,421


So sales increased by 1,945 units from May 2014 to May 2015, or 80.33%. When you factor in ILX and RLX sales, that's how Acura's getting their 43.5% sales increase.

Acura should be comparing May 2015 sales with May 2009 sales because that's when the 2G TSX and 4G TL were in their 1st year of sales. You know why they didn't? Because if they did, we'd see this:

May 2009:

Acura TL sales were 3,375
Acura TSX sales were 2,466
________________________
Total: 5,841

May 2015:

Acura TLX sales were 4,352
Acura TSX sales were 4
Acura TL sales were 10
_______________________
Total: 4,366


That sales decreased by 1,475 units or 25.25%.

I won't include the ILX into the number because there was no equivalent model on sale in May 2009. And if you compared May 2015 RLX sales to May 2009 RL sales, they were just as dismal so it'd be a wash.

skd2k1

iTrader: (1)

it's clear to me that your mind is made up. ilx ought to be included if the tsx is going to be included. you're comparing one model to two models.

AZuser

The TLX might be one model, but it replaced both the TSX and the TL. That's why the TLX has a 2.4 and 3.5 engine option. The ILX did not replace the TSX. The ILX is Acura's entry level model and it's taking the place of the entry level RSX.

But okay, if you want to include ILX sales.... I'll also include RL/RLX sales too so you don't think I'm being biased or trying to hide something.

May 2015 sedan sales:

Acura TLX sales were 4,352
Acura TSX sales were 4
Acura TL sales were 10
Acura ILX sales were 1,673
Acura RLX sales were 239
______________________
Total: 6,278


May 2009 sedan sales:

Acura TL sales were 3,375
Acura TSX sales were 2,466
Acura RL sales were 169
________________________
Total: 6,010


6,278 - 6,010 = 268 more units or +4.45%. A 4.45% increase is a far cry from Acura's claim of a 43.5% sales increase.

SSFTSX

In May 2009 TL/TSX were 1 year old. while in May 2015 ILX is 3 years old. i am sure next ILX will boost the sales. first attempt on ILX not very successfull. the design and space is down market for the price.
Competition is also tough due to 320i/A3. Those lowest models were simply not there.

kurtatx

Dude, why do you even bother? We all know AZUser has an axe to grind.

ttribe

What "axe" would that be?

kurtatx

1) calling out spelling is bs
2) Misinterpreting good sales numbers is bs

ttribe

Neither of those things is an "axe." You may not like what he has to say, or even how he says it, but dismissing everything he says outright as being nothing more than axe - grinding is disingenuous.

Macau Park

If the '16 TLX does not come with exhaust, carplay, better wheels, and 220hp on the I4 Tech package, it will be an embarrassment. This is coming from who likes and is shopping for a TLX.

Why would I spend 2k more for a TLX 2.4L tech when I could get the accord with way better engine, better wheels, more tech, arguably better transmission, arguably better looking for less.

For slightly better leather and road noise, I am paying more for all that less with a engine half as powerful?

kurtatx

I dismiss him because he's wrong.

AZuser

How exactly did I "set out to undermine the tlx?" I merely compared features to features on the MMC Accord Touring and the 2.4 TLX Tech. You make it seem as if I have control over what features go into the Accord and the TLX. If you want to blame someone for undermining the TLX, blame Honda.

Yes, you can give the TLX remote start and 19" wheels and other parts and accessories it doesn't have that the Accord Touring does. The same can be done to the Accord to give it what the TLX has. But I'm comparing them stock for stock with no options. It's easier to compare them that way since the claim you made was that you didn't see how the Accord was that close to the TLX.

Yes, I know the TLX is a step up from the Accord. I never said it wasn't. What I did say and show is how close the Accord Touring is to the 2.4 TLX Tech than they are different.

Consumer Reports did a comparison of the EX-L V6 Accord to the 2.4 TLX Tech as discussed here: https://acurazine.com/forums/fifth-g...accord-925135/

Their conclusion:
More stereo speakers, 1 extra year warranty, a better ride and sportier feel. Oh, and prestige badge. Not a huge difference to me.

There was another review/comparison done here: Acura advances with TLX: All-new mid-size car offers impressive technology, crisp performance

Note the part where they said "Most of the difference comes from technology." The MMC Accord Touring is getting alot, if not all, of that technology and more like Apple CarPlay, Android Auto, remote start, and Honda Sensing. This closes the tech divide between them. Will the Accord and TLX still be different? Yes. But Honda has just made them more similar.

You don't have to agree with me. I don't expect you or anyone else to. As I said, "The 2.4 TLX with Tech and 3.5 TLX with Tech sure looks a lot like an Accord Touring to me."

When the MMC TLX comes out in a couple years, then it'll be a different story.

AZuser

1) Where here in the discussion did I call out skd2k1's misspellings?

2) Misinterpreting? I can see that Acura did increase sales year over year. But comparing against 6 year old and discontinued models? Even you have to admit those were some very easy comparisons to beat. Not exactly fair, IMO. That was my point.


Wrong about?

SSFTSX

Your own links admit that TLX has sporty feel and better ride. and Accord is not good value at all. thats why it sells never compete with Camry.

TLX is good value as its standard product competing against big variations BMW 3 series and Hyundai Genesis with many big packages.
Accord design and material wise down market.