AZuser

That's not what I've been seeing. Plus, it would not make any sense to keep all 3 models.

Lexus IS 200t gets a 245 hp turbo four-cylinder, comes here in 2016

Lexus Turbo Four Replacing 2.5L V6 » AutoGuide.com News

SSFTSX

Actually TLX is expensive for the quality of materials used but since its low hanging fruit and every one can afford it so they buying it.
RLX is price is right where it should be. Higher quality cabin, music system, LED lights, more rear leg space, noise reducing rims, more expensive tires,

consumers are stupid. just like they buying that overprice BMW 3 series with low quality materials, cramped interior.

Curious3GTL

Lexus Canada also mentioned getting a 300. Wonder if we get it here?




Edit: I was replying to AZuser, but someone replied while I was typing. hahaha.

SSFTSX

how you know it is not making money? when Yen went from 78 to 125. but RLX priced stayed the same. steel and other energy like LNG prices went down alot. you never know those hybrid technology will eventually goes into SUVs.

oonowindoo

I guess i read it wrong but i swear i read it somewhere. But that is a good move.

Talking about making sense, Ford kept all 3 for the Mustang.

oonowindoo

Consumers are stupid? then who are the smart ones? Acura? well if being stupid would make you the market leader and while the smart ones are struggling, i will stay on the stupid side.

I think RLX is overpriced with navigation screen from the early 2000s.
3 series is right where it should be. thicker plastics, wider tires, fancy rims and more noise from the exhaust. Oh yah and AC has superior velocity. not to mention the best in class SOS system with 2 microphones.

oonowindoo

if Acura is making $$ from those sorry ass RLX #s, then they are either very smart or you are very stupid for getting ripped off and thank them for it.

RPhilMan1

The base trim with the V6 is really only there for rental car duty and entry-level low sticker cost. But hey, it's still 300 horsepower.

TacoBello

BECAUSE YOU CAN'T MAKE MONEY SELLING 2500 CARS PER YEAR.

Honestly, man...

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yea it's kinda pointless...but some cars have three like ATS and 3 series...while some have two like C Class.

YEH

That's a pretty basic understanding of the auto biz (the exception being if you are selling $800k+ supercars, but even they don't make much profit - usually breaking even and some losing $$).

Infiniti just recently announced the cancellation of the QX60 hybrid which is on track to sell 2,082 for the year.

Nissan also announced the cancellation of the Pathfinder hybrid which is on track to sell 2,518 - which is a little more than what total RLX sales is on track for the yr.

The QX60 and Pathfinder pretty much use the same hybrid powertrain setup, so the costs would be spread out btwn the 2, but even over 5,500 in sales did not warrant keeping the hybrid versions.

Not only is the RLX on track for only 2,400 sales for the year, but the hybrid RLX (which he touted as being the reason why RLX sales should increase dramatically) is on track for a whopping total of 238 in sales.

oonowindoo

That is why those Hyper super car brands are all owned by someone bigger with deeper wallet, so they can afford to lose $$ from selling a few hundred units a year.

SSFTSX

Engine and transmission is the most important component in car. tell me how many Nissan building for hybrids and than compare with J series V6 of Honda.its the component and platform that matter not the final product.

Do you even know that EuroAccord/TSX still on sale in Australia despite not for sale in US for more than a year. Honda must be losing money on Euro Accord right according to your logic. i am not even putting big currency collapse of Australia due to commodity price collapse.
Honda Accord Euro High Performance - Honda Australia

Curious3GTL

Let's just run the math.

Let's take sales:
2013: 5053
2014: 3413
2015: 1200

So far that's a total of 9666.

True car puts the average transaction price of $53594.

That brings revenue of the RLX to $518,039,604.

Then this

Why Does It Cost So Much For Automakers To Develop New Models?

So it looks like the RLX has yet to make Acura money.

SSFTSX

I highly doubt its $1b for RLX when Yen goes from 78 to 125. RLX costs are Yen. PAWS tech is shared with TLX. only NSX will cost real money but that production run will continue for more like 10 years globally.

TacoBello

You're oversimplifying a bit. Although the average transaction price may be just under 54k, that price includes dealer profits and doesn't take into account what it costs Honda to build the car.

Curious3GTL

I agree. It's just the only number I had to go with, but no matter what number you use I don't think they've made money off the RLX.

AZuser

Like when you said you highly doubt I could find an RLX Advance with 10k miles for $40k?

TSX69

CEO Hachigo Taking Honda Back to Basics

TOKYO -- After less than a month on the job, Honda Motor Co. CEO Takahiro Hachigo has outlined his vision for a "new Honda." Much of the plan echoes the mantra of a now-flourishing rival.

Hachigo, 56, a veteran r&d engineer who took office June 17, aims to prioritize innovative cars, abandon aggressive growth targets and maximize existing production capacity before adding more.

If the formula sounds familiar, it should. Toyota Motor Corp. President Akio Toyoda steered his company on a similar course after its financial stumble during the Great Recession and its 2010 unintended acceleration crisis.

In some ways, Honda is recovering from a similar bind.

Former CEO Takanobu Ito handed control to Hachigo as the company was just regaining its footing after several body blows.

The Japanese company's reputation, long envied as cutting-edge cool, had slumped into ho-hum territory, with critics saying some recent products fail to stand out in the mass-market crowd.

The carmaker was then broadsided by the global recall of millions of vehicles to replace faulty Takata airbags that have now been linked to eight deaths. And a series of embarrassing recalls of the redesigned Honda Fit small car in Japan forced Ito to delay several product launches and overhaul r&d strategy.

Meanwhile, Ito expanded worldwide capacity to chase his goal of 6 million sales globally in the fiscal year that ends March 31, 2017 -- even as demand failed to keep pace. Honda sold just 4.4 million vehicles in the fiscal year that ended March 31.

Speaking last week at his 1st news conference since taking office, Hachigo set 2 main strategies for fixing the company:

1. Better integrate Honda's six global operating centers.

2. Regain focus on innovative and exciting vehicles.

"I plan to create a new Honda," Hachigo said.

"Rather than focusing on numbers, it is important to come up with products that carry dreams and satisfy our customers," he said. "We will focus on the development of innovative products."

Last month, Honda restated its earnings to notch a 19 percent drop in operating profit for the fiscal year that ended March 31. Honda took the hit after booking larger-than-expected costs to handle expanding recalls of Takata airbags.

Global woes

At Honda, rampant expansion to create 6 global production and r&d hubs led to overcapacity that is also undermining profits, Hachigo said. "We want to make best use of these sites on a global basis, so the regions can supplement each other," the new CEO said. "That is the next step."

From now on, Honda increasingly will use production sites outside Japan as global export hubs, he said.

For example, Honda will ship the 5-door Honda Civic hatchback and high-performance Civic Type R from its assembly plant in England to global markets. It will also ship the CR-V crossover to new markets from its plant in Canada.

Finally, instead of sourcing the European-spec Jazz compact locally, it will ship that car from Japan.

Honda, the 1st Japanese carmaker to build vehicles in the U.S., now makes 81 percent of its vehicles outside Japan. In the 1st 5 months of this year, Honda's exports from Japan plunged 27 percent to just 9,620 vehicles. North America alone accounts for 40 percent of its global sales.

Hachigo was vague on details for much of his product plan.

But he said the company will spend more time on r&d to develop better products more attuned to market trends. The guiding principle, he said, will be products that deploy innovative technology that has yet to be marketed.

Hachigo cited the S660 mini sports roadster, sold only in Japan, and Honda's commuter jet business as examples of the new spirit he wants to see in Honda's products.

Also on tap: A redesigned Civic small car, expected in Japan this fall and the U.S. next spring, that will get a new platform and downsized, turbocharged engine. Those technologies will be deployed to other nameplates, Hachigo said.

"My 1st priority should be coming up with Honda-original products," he said. "That will be the most important pillar."

Acura MIA

In 1 important way, Hachigo does not seem to be following Toyota's playbook, noted Chris Richter, an auto analyst at CLSA Asia-Pacific Markets in Tokyo.

Toyota effectively stepped up its positioning of its high-margin Lexus luxury brand as a global profit engine. In contrast, Hachigo uttered the word "Acura" only as a brief aside in his hourlong press conference, entirely glossing over any plans for his company's struggling America-centric luxury brand.

Hachigo, despite touting "Honda-unique" technologies, even failed to use the opportunity to trumpet the unique 3-motor hybrid system it will deploy in the upcoming Acura NSX halo car.

"It was just mentioned vanishingly," Richter said of the Acura business. "It isn't a priority, and it needs to be."

Overall, though, Hachigo's approach emulates that of Toyota's Toyoda, who took over his family's namesake automaker just as it was booking its 1st operating loss in 7 decades. Toyota was soon hit by its own recall crisis.

The problems prompted Toyota to halt new factory construction, maximize the use of existing capacity, redouble its focus on quality and adopt "fun to drive" as its guiding maxim.

Toyoda's remedy worked. Toyota now expects its 3rd-straight year of record profits in the fiscal year ending March 31, 2016.

You can reach Hans Greimel at hgreimel@crain.com

Edward'TLS

^^^^^ "Acura MIA"

That's not a good sign for Acura, from the new Honda CEO.

AZuser

Probably doesn't know what to do (yet?) with the Acura brand either.

Besides, Honda is a global brand, Acura is not. He probably wanted to address the issues plaguing their volume brand and what brings in the majority of the company's profits first.

There are quite a few new or updated Honda models that have been released or will be coming out soon: HR-V, Fit, Civic, Accord, Odyssey, Pilot,.... pretty much their bread and butter line up.

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

In order for the Acura brand to flourish like Audi/BMW/Lexus/MB, he must first globalize the Acura brand name.

AZuser

In order for the Acura brand to flourish like Audi/BMW/Lexus/MB, Acura must first offer cars that aren't just Honda+ and are worth buying. Going global before fixing their car line up will just leave them in the same position they are in now in the U.S.

SSFTSX

how are they bad in US when they selling upto 16k cars a month in US with 1/10 of variation of BMW. I am not even going into color platte.
Lexus and MB has 4 SUVs while Acura has 2. The solution is introduce 3 more SUVs for Acura lineu including one body on frame global SUV to compete with RR/Land Cruiser. Another compete with GL class and another below RDX.
I believe next Ridgeline will be more success.

so called RWD platforms are not saving Korean.
this is called crises.

TacoBello

Alright SSFTSX, we get it. You're on Acura's payroll. Will you claim Acura is curing cancer next?

neoshi

Let's be honest. Honda should just take the Acura cars, slap the Honda badges back on them, and price them according to the Honda price points. Just look how well the 2016 Pilot is being praised after they essentially took a 14+ MDX, improved on some features, and gave it the "aggressive" new Honda shell.

I've seen enough cheapening of my current generation Acura to believe that there's been no great effort nor money put into developing them nor building them.

cu2wagon

Cut the BS, start calling them all Honda, and offer "Acura" and model designation badges at the parts counter as dealer add-ons. Like when you go buy a Hyundai Genesis and get the dealer to pull off the swoosh-H badge and replace it with a winged-Genesis badge.

Could even charge premium price for the stickers... Like $34.50 a set.

I'd be on board with that.

thoiboi

Can i get them with background colors like red and yellow? because JDM yo?

cu2wagon

No.

Because it's a luxury badge not a Pepboys special...

They'd be "crimson rouge sunset" and "saffron sand beach" colored.

But you're getting the idea!

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yes, Acura is not recognized as a top tier luxury brand. And yes, two of its sedans are failing. Also, Honda might need to completely revamp the Acura line up and its strategies if they are serious about making the brand into a globally recognized brand that can compete with the big names.

But for the time being, it's hard to deny that Acura in general is able to sell Honda+ cars at a noticeably higher price, such as charging the MDX way more $$ than a Honda Pilot Touring while still be able to get decent sales numbers.

I think this is where the issue is. On one hand, Acura is doing fine in terms of sales, other than ILX and RLX. Chances are, Acura is generating some good profit as most of the cars are based on the Accord and the Honda part bins. On the other hand, Honda+ will only get Acura so far, and it's safe to say Acura has approached the limit for a while now. A new direction is needed to move the brand take that giant step towards "tier 1." That in itself will take a long time and money in terms of vehicle development and building the brand up. In other words, this can be a risky move.

To me, it all depends on how ambitious and how much risk Honda management is willing to take. Right now, I see Honda being somewhat comfortable with what Acura is able to do - generating decent sales overall without much development costs. But the long term losses because of being comfortable might be bigger in the future.

YEH

At the same time, the Germans sell more expensive RWD CUVs.

The reason why the Lexus RX has been the sales leader is b/c it is based on a midsize platform but priced like a compact CUV.


Once again, nice attempt in trying to obfuscate the issue.

Hyundai being slow to expand both its CUV capacity and lineup is a totally separate matter from going RWD for the luxury segment.

Once again, Hyundai sold 100k of the current Genesis in 18 months, which is 10 months quicker than the previous gen model and that's despite the higher price.

So with RWD - Hyundai has been able to increase price AND still sell more of them.

Meanwhile, the RLX is dead on the water and the TLX sells largely b/c Acura went from the near $40k price-point with the TL to the near $30k price-point with the TLX.

The Accord is down 16% for the year or about 30k.

Thank goodness for Honda that they added the HR-V in the nick of time to help make up for those lost sales.

neuronbob

Agree. Acura is such a hot mess (at least in the sedan department) right now I'm sure that the brass just don't know what to do with it.

I see SSFTSX is back. I am puzzled that he can't see how the RLX is an unmitigated sales failure of epic proportions. My (thank goodness, LEASED, I didn't want to deal with depreciation) Sport Hybrid is a great car with awesome tech, and I really enjoy driving it, but even I recognize that Acura can't sell one to save their life, and the PAWS model is moribund.

TacoBello

Bob, the thing is, I WISH the RLX was a sales success. I really do.

I think Honda/Acura's stick-in-the-mud approach to cars is finally catching up to them. I've yet to see another car maker as stubborn. The "we will tell you what you want" approach to everything is getting tiresome...

neoshi

AMEN

SSFTSX

RX is using ancient engine and is the slowest and worst handling CUV. It's wheel base not bigger than X3. It's 5 seater and not good value at all.


By concentrating on v8 and rwd platforms h/k group has completely lost direction. Now profits/stocks/sales are in tatters. Even h/k CEO does not know what to do.he is in panic.
HRV transaction prices higher than Accord. TLX replacing two cars and is very in demand. Not dumping on used car lots.

SSFTSX

http://m.wardsauto.com/plants-production/china-slowdown-delays-hyundai-na-capacity-decision

Another of your prediction bite dust

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

you're just taking what every one said and flipping it in your favor....

that's now how that works

YEH

Again, H/K profits are down mostly due to the rising value of the Won and the increased switchover to CUVs which H/K have been too slow in reacting.

And if anything, w/ those factors, increase sales of the Genesis at a higher pricepoint is what's making things better for Hyundai (would have been even better if Hyundai had a Genesis-based CUV already in the works, but again, the slow reaction).


Again, your posts/responses obfuscating the issue.

Hyundai management is just nervous b/c they sunk billions into building 2 new plants in China - which I thought was stupid when I 1st heard about it.

Not only was there already signs of overcapacity in China, Hyundai wanted to build one plant in a certain location, but the Chinese authorities would only give them approval if they built a 2nd plant at another location and Hyundai management stupidly agreed.

Regardless, those additional China plants have no bearing on Hyundai's lack of CUV supply for the NA market.

They've been able to find additional production capacity (by cutting production of other models), but even then, they will only be able to supply 90k units of the new Tucson for the US market which won't be enough (which is cited in the article you linked, but ignored).

And I'm sure Kia is itching to be rid of production of the SFS - so that they can increase production of the Sorento and the new Optima at their GA plant.

Hyundai management is just being nervous willies right now due to the China situation, but they will have to eventually build another NA plant.

Frankly, I'm surprised that the signs have all pointed to another US plant when a Mexico plant would seem to make more sense, as Hyundai recently launched sales for the Mexican market and a Mexican plant would allow them to not only build compacts more competitively (as most automakers are building or planning on moving compact production to Mexico), but would have access to the S. American and European markets w/o being hit by import tariffs.

A Mexico plant would allow Hyundai to move Elantra production to Mexico and to move SF production from Kia to their AL plant.

SSFTSX

how many excuses left?. Yen is stable this year but anyway it does not impact Honda as majority of Production is US/Canada/Mexico

higher price point?. Majority of Genesis sales are V6 under $40k with deep discounts. It is loss making car. Its lease offers comparable to TLX.
Hyundai Incentives and Lease Deals for July 2015


so they nervous about China and it prevents them to build factory in NA. what kind of stupid logic is that.

for years you were lamenting lack of production capacity for lack of hyundai sonata success now it is lack of CUV.
Provided people actually want to buy them.
H/K will become like Suzuki/Mitsubishi in NA market. Honda and Nissan will deal very aggressive deal with them.



Mexico plant does not make sense at all as all the skilled labor is already hired. Alteast you admit that H/k management does not know where to build plant and what to produce.

ttribe