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haha to be fair, the TLX tops at $45k....saying that as $50k is a bit of a stretch, don't you think so? In the past, people complained the TL didn't have many options and no AWD. Well, those there are some options and AWD available, obviously the price will go up.
Also, it's all relative. For instance, in 1997, the base BMW 5 series was at $39k and the 540i was a bit over $50k. Nowadays, a base 5 series starts at $50k and you can go over $90k for a loaded 550i.
Another example, the 1997 Accord was a $15k (DX) to $25k (EX) car. Now, the price range is $22k-$34k. Heck, $15k can't even land you a Honda Civic these days. Even a base model Fit is more expensive than a 97 Accord DX.
When we talk about price, I think there's a difference between "value" and "cheap." Cheap refers to the actual price figure, if it's low or not. Value is more of a relative term - what do you get for a certain price compared to what you can get in other cars. And is the TLX a better value than others in the segment? That really depends on what your priorities are. If you could careless about the standard features, and only care about RWD and handling and badge, then no, the TLX isn't a better value to YOU.
Being "value" or not, let the auto buyers be the judge.
The 2G/3G TL were considered by the auto industry as "value buy" back then, and racked up consistent sales figures of ~6K unit per month.
In comparison, the TLX is selling at only a little more than half as many, and the 4G TL was a dead shame.
If the auto buyers are not embracing the 4G-TL/TLX as like the "value buy" 2G/3G TL, it is crystal clear that they all don't consider that the TLX is worthy of it's price tag.
Likewise, same for the poor selling pre-2016 ILX and RLX flagship sedan.
Being "value" or not, let the auto buyers be the judge.
The 2G/3G TL were considered by the auto industry as "value buy" back then, and racked up consistent sales figures of ~6K unit per month.
In comparison, the TLX is selling at only a little more than half as many, and the 4G TL was a dead shame.
If the auto buyers are not embracing the 4G-TL/TLX as like the "value buy" 2G/3G TL, it is crystal clear that they all don't consider that the TLX is worthy of it's price tag.
Likewise, same for the poor selling pre-2016 ILX and RLX flagship sedan.
Unless TLX has the same performance/interior materials/features/option list/customization ability/quality of the equipment (Navi size, resolution and etc) as BMW, Audi and Merc and it costs $5k - $10k less, otherwise, there is no such thing called value when the products are not the same.
Being "value" or not, let the auto buyers be the judge.
The 2G/3G TL were considered by the auto industry as "value buy" back then, and racked up consistent sales figures of ~6K unit per month.
In comparison, the TLX is selling at only a little more than half as many, and the 4G TL was a dead shame.
If the auto buyers are not embracing the 4G-TL/TLX as like the "value buy" 2G/3G TL, it is crystal clear that they all don't consider that the TLX is worthy of it's price tag.
Likewise, same for the poor selling pre-2016 ILX and RLX flagship sedan.
Seems like we are talking about different things. I'm only looking at this from the feature perspective. Of course, that's only ONE factor for a luxury car purchase.
The issue with using sales figures alone to gauge whether a car is a value buy or not is that you are assuming everyone is looking to get the best value when shopping for a luxury car. But that might not be the case. To me, it's also about the brand reputation and popularity. BMW for example has built up and maintained an extremely good reputation for the 3 series. It's pretty much the "go to" car for anyone that wants an entry level luxury sedan. People are willing to pay top dollars for one. For many people, it's a representation that they are doing fine in life.
Unfortunately, the same cannot be said with Acura. It simply doesn't have that prestigious factor. This is why when the other competitors became way more competitive since 2007, the TL has gone down hill. Most people only consider Acura if there isn't another choice in the luxury car market. Nowadays, people would even consider getting a 1 series, A3, CLA, 320i before considering an Acura. Again, for the same $30k, they'd rather get a MB, Audi, BMW even if it means giving up a bunch of features, ride comfort, and what not, just to be seen as driving a car with a nice badge.
Originally Posted by fsttyms1
Originally Posted by oonowindoo
Agreed!
Value is as subjective as exterior design.
Unless TLX has the same performance/interior materials/features/option list/customization ability/quality of the equipment (Navi size, resolution and etc) as BMW, Audi and Merc and it costs $5k - $10k less, otherwise, there is no such thing called value when the products are not the same.
lol, what are you agreeing to? What you said and what Edward said are quite different.
Edward basically said the 2G TL and 3G TL are value products since they were hotter sellers than the TLX.
What you said is that whatever Acura makes, it has to match BMW/MB/Audi in terms of performance/interior materials/features/option list/customization ability/quality of the equipment (Navi size, resolution and etc).
Well, the 2G TL and 3G TL didn't match BMW/MB/Audi. That means there's no such thing as value, and thus you are saying 2G and 3G TL aren't "value products."
So, he said 2G/3G TL are value products, and you say that the opposite. So...not too sure what you are agreeing with...??
Seems like we are talking about different things. I'm only looking at this from the feature perspective. Of course, that's only ONE factor for a luxury car purchase.
The issue with using sales figures alone to gauge whether a car is a value buy or not is that you are assuming everyone is looking to get the best value when shopping for a luxury car. But that might not be the case. To me, it's also about the brand reputation and popularity. BMW for example has built up and maintained an extremely good reputation for the 3 series. It's pretty much the "go to" car for anyone that wants an entry level luxury sedan. People are willing to pay top dollars for one. For many people, it's a representation that they are doing fine in life.
Unfortunately, the same cannot be said with Acura. It simply doesn't have that prestigious factor. This is why when the other competitors became way more competitive since 2007, the TL has gone down hill. Most people only consider Acura if there isn't another choice in the luxury car market. Nowadays, people would even consider getting a 1 series, A3, CLA, 320i before considering an Acura. Again, for the same $30k, they'd rather get a MB, Audi, BMW even if it means giving up a bunch of features, ride comfort, and what not, just to be seen as driving a car with a nice badge.
lol, what are you agreeing to? What you said and what Edward said are quite different.
Edward basically said the 2G TL and 3G TL are value products since they were hotter sellers than the TLX.
What you said is that whatever Acura makes, it has to match BMW/MB/Audi in terms of performance/interior materials/features/option list/customization ability/quality of the equipment (Navi size, resolution and etc).
Well, the 2G TL and 3G TL didn't match BMW/MB/Audi. That means there's no such thing as value, and thus you are saying 2G and 3G TL aren't "value products."
So, he said 2G/3G TL are value products, and you say that the opposite. So...not too sure what you are agreeing with...??
I agreed that he did not agree with you.
If we were talking about 2G and 3G.. in some areas, actually in a lot of the areas they were better than BMWs and its competitors from the same era and 1 important factor that many tend to forget is, buyers nowadays do not view Acura the same as 10 to 15 years ago.
Fact: Acura had no problem selling in the $30k-$40k segment 10-15 years ago. But they are struggling in the same segment in 2015 (now cost $35k-50k segment), while same old competitors are doing just fine.
While i understand when you guys saying "value buys" but i do not think it really exist in the Luxury segment, since people buy what they WANT not what they need in this segment. So what is a good value to one, might be worthless to another. As you can see from the sales # difference between value buys vs. brand whores buys.
You can apply the same logic to TVs... while they are many Value buys that offer similar performance, size and features, but the more expensive brands like Sony, Samsung and LG are still dominating the market. So what is the point of being value buys when no one buys it?
Last edited by oonowindoo; 04-07-2015 at 07:00 PM.
lol, what are you agreeing to? What you said and what Edward said are quite different.
Edward basically said the 2G TL and 3G TL are value products since they were hotter sellers than the TLX.
What you said is that whatever Acura makes, it has to match BMW/MB/Audi in terms of performance/interior materials/features/option list/customization ability/quality of the equipment (Navi size, resolution and etc).
Well, the 2G TL and 3G TL didn't match BMW/MB/Audi. That means there's no such thing as value, and thus you are saying 2G and 3G TL aren't "value products."
So, he said 2G/3G TL are value products, and you say that the opposite. So...not too sure what you are agreeing with...??
Me, Fsttyms1, and Oonowindoo are more or less on the same line here.
The 2G/3G TL competed with BMW/MB/Audi products, and cost thousands less than the comparable BMW/MB/Audi products.
So the 2G/3G TL was considered to be a "Value buy", and auto buyers all rushed in for this damn good deal. Thus the all-time-high sales figures.
However, even though the TLX also competes with BMW/MB/Audi products, the TLX no longer cost thousands less than the comparable BMW/MB/Audi products.
So the TLX is no longer a "value buy" in comparison, and thus no more huge sales figures.
The Acura name plate has never attain the same recognition/prestige level as BMW/MB/Audi plate.
Therefore, even if the TLX is able to match BMW/MB/Audi in terms of performance/interior materials/features/option list/customization ability/quality of the equipment (Navi size, resolution and etc), it will have to have a much lower price tag (and so a "value buy" status) in order to attract luxury auto buyers just like the way the 2G/3G TL did.
I somewhat disagree with that. The BMW/MB/Audi all go up to 60k when they're loaded, which is 15k more than a loaded TLX.
I think a lot of it is the styling. I think people bought the 2G/3G because they looked really good straight off the lot. The TLX isn't bad, but it's not great either. I think it's a safe buy but it doesn't excite people like the 2G/3G did.
I somewhat disagree with that. The BMW/MB/Audi all go up to 60k when they're loaded, which is 15k more than a loaded TLX.
I think a lot of it is the styling. I think people bought the 2G/3G because they looked really good straight off the lot. The TLX isn't bad, but it's not great either. I think it's a safe buy but it doesn't excite people like the 2G/3G did.
The problem with that is a 60k 3/4 series offers a lot more than what 45k TLX can.
If we were talking about 2G and 3G.. in some areas, actually in a lot of the areas they were better than BMWs and its competitors from the same era and 1 important factor that many tend to forget is, buyers nowadays do not view Acura the same as 10 to 15 years ago.
Fact: Acura had no problem selling in the $30k-$40k segment 10-15 years ago. But they are struggling in the same segment in 2015 (now cost $35k-50k segment), while same old competitors are doing just fine.
While i understand when you guys saying "value buys" but i do not think it really exist in the Luxury segment, since people buy what they WANT not what they need in this segment. So what is a good value to one, might be worthless to another. As you can see from the sales # difference between value buys vs. brand whores buys.
You can apply the same logic to TVs... while they are many Value buys that offer similar performance, size and features, but the more expensive brands like Sony, Samsung and LG are still dominating the market. So what is the point of being value buys when no one buys it?
I think we are talking about the same thing here. I was saying how in the 2G/3G TL era, the competition wasn't as strong. But by 2007, the competitors have improved greatly to match or even exceed the TL.
It's like the 3G TL was a B+ product along with the 3 series. The likes of CTS, IS300, A4, etc were C products. By 2007, every car is a B+ product, meaning the TL didn't stand out anymore. And if things are equal, then Acura doesn't really have a chance to compete. I see that happening nowadays too. The TLX is pretty much a modernized 1G TSX/3G TL and it's a great car. But the thing is that the TLX has to compete with other great cars too. 10-15 years ago? There were way less excellent competitors.
Originally Posted by Edward'TLS
Me, Fsttyms1, and Oonowindoo are more or less on the same line here.
The 2G/3G TL competed with BMW/MB/Audi products, and cost thousands less than the comparable BMW/MB/Audi products.
So the 2G/3G TL was considered to be a "Value buy", and auto buyers all rushed in for this damn good deal. Thus the all-time-high sales figures.
However, even though the TLX also competes with BMW/MB/Audi products, the TLX no longer cost thousands less than the comparable BMW/MB/Audi products.
So the TLX is no longer a "value buy" in comparison, and thus no more huge sales figures.
The Acura name plate has never attain the same recognition/prestige level as BMW/MB/Audi plate.
Therefore, even if the TLX is able to match BMW/MB/Audi in terms of performance/interior materials/features/option list/customization ability/quality of the equipment (Navi size, resolution and etc), it will have to have a much lower price tag (and so a "value buy" status) in order to attract luxury auto buyers just like the way the 2G/3G TL did.
Actually, the TLX is much like the 2G/3G TL where it's thousands less than the competitors when similarly equipped.
In 2004, you can get a 3.2TL base for $32650. A 330i started at $35200. You save about $2.5k while having an almost fully loaded car if you get the TL. The TL has more power but the 330i is just as fast, if not a bit faster.
In 2015, a TLX V6 starts at $35k. The 328i starts at $37.5k while a 335i starts at $44k. Performance wise, the TLX is right between the two, which means making a direct comparison more difficult.
I think it's pretty clear that the TLX is still a fair bit cheaper than a comparable 3 series.
But that doesn't matter. Like you and I are both saying, brand prestige is a factor that Acura will never win. If people didn't want to pay up for a loaded 3 series, the only good alternatives were the TL and G35. Nowadays, if they want to spend $30-$40k, they have way more choices than before. They just want that Audi/BMW/MB emblem? They can choose from 320i, A3, or CLA. They want a reliability too? There's the IS250 and IS350, as well as the Q50. Cadillac also has the ATS that is highly rated.
Originally Posted by oonowindoo
The problem with that is a 60k 3/4 series offers a lot more than what 45k TLX can.
Back in the days, a fully loaded 330i was around $45k too while a 3G TL loaded was like $35k. The $45k 3 series offered a lot more too such as RWD, a straight 6 engine, and the legendary BMW handling.
what i meant is other than those things made BMW a BMW.
Today a $60k 3/4 series offers many features and technology that is not available on a 45k TLX, a lot of them are not available in any Acura like high res screen, touchpad with hand writing recognition, 360 degree camera, Brembo brake, adaptive M suspension, adaptive headlight, HUD that shows more than just an arrow, Park assist (park itself).
but back in the days, 2G/3G TL offered just as many features, performance and more advertised HP as a more expensive 3 series and BMW's navigation system was laughable. So you could argue it was a value buy for some. But today it is still cheaper but also offers less.. so to compare a fully loaded 45k TLX and a 60k 3/4 series is not relevant anymore.
I think the TLX also has the 360 degree camera (like normal rear view, wide angle view, and top down view for 360 degrees).
I also believe the TLX has some exclusive features that the 3/4 series don't offer, such as collision mitigration braking system, road departure mitigation system (with automatic braking and steering input, not just sending a vibration), rear cross traffic monitor, etc.
With that said, I see what you mean now. You can certainly get stuff that's not availble on the TLX, and it will smoke the TLX pretty bad in terms of performance. But boy, a fully loaded (not including accessories of course) 435i xdrive is more like $70k ($68875 to be exact)! I don't think the difference back in the days was that big...?
To keep it at $60k, I'd have to go with the luxury line, skip Harmon Kardon Stereo system, M Sport brakes, M suspension, variable steering, rear heated front seats, cold weather pkg, adaptive LED headlights, Tech Pkg, etc. Pretty much the stuff that you mentioned above would not fit in the $60k price tag unless I remove other features. That is of course fine and it's great to have choices. But we should then be comparing a $40k TLX to the $60k 3/4-series?
The bigger the gap you are trying to describe, the more it shows how bad the situation Acura is in right now.
The point is, while BMW and others can easily charge 10k, 20k, even 25k more than the same models in 2015, Acura is struggling to sell the "same" model with 10k more (V6). It is a problem that they did not have back then.
So in a way, it shows everyone else is moving forward and Acura is either standing still or going backwards.
The bigger the gap you are trying to describe, the more it shows how bad the situation Acura is in right now.
The point is, while BMW and others can easily charge 10k, 20k, even 25k more than the same models in 2015, Acura is struggling to sell the "same" model with 10k more (V6). It is a problem that they did not have back then.
So in a way, it shows everyone else is moving forward and Acura is either standing still or going backwards.
Exactly. I think it's more that the problem wasn't as apparent back in the days. But it shows up more clearly once others jack up their prices.
Honda light trucks set a new April record of 52,635 vehicles sold, gaining 2.0 percent year-over-year; Honda CR-V also has best-ever April, rising 3.4 percent on sales of 29,452 vehicles
Honda Fit sales jumped 55.6 percent to lead American Honda April performers
Acura division sales leapt 5.3 percent in April, fueled by a steep 29.4 percent rise in sedan sales led by TLX with sales of 4,093 vehicles
Honda Pilot posts a substantial 28 percent gain even as an all-new Pilot and HR-V prepare to do battle in a hot truck market
American Honda Motor Co., Inc. today reported April 2015 Honda and Acura vehicle sales of 130,068 units, with Acura cars rising 29.4 percent on sales of 5,932 vehicles and Honda trucks gaining 2.0 percent on sales of 52,635 units for a new April record. Overall American Honda sales decreased 1.8 percent versus a strong April 2014 sales total, with the Honda Division posting sales of 115,194 vehicles in April, a decrease of 2.7 percent for the month, and the Acura Division gaining 5.3 percent on sales of 14,874 vehicles in the same period.
Honda
Honda light trucks continue to resonate with consumers shopping in mainstream market segments, witnessed by yet another robust month for the outgoing 2015 Pilot—even as it makes room for the 2016 model—plus another strong month for the best-selling CR-V as it set a new April record, nearly reaching 30,000 sales; both vehicles contributed to a new April Honda light truck sales record. Bucking recent trends toward trucks, the Fit blazed another 55+ percent monthly increase while Civic also gained solid ground, up more than 2.8 percent over April 2014.
Honda light trucks set a new April record, rising 2.0 percent on sales of 52,635 units.
The best-selling CR-V also had record April sales, gaining 3.4 percent on sales of 29,452 vehicles.
The outgoing 2015 Pilot posted sales of 11,222 vehicles—a stout increase of 28 percent in April.
In the midst of a shrinking sedan market, Civic sales were up 2.8 percent for the month on sales of 28,380 and the amazing Fit posted sales of 6,529 units to leap 55.6 percent in April, while Accord posted strong sales of 27,251 units.
"With the CR-V and current Pilot selling so well, and the HR-V and all-new Pilot soon entering the market, our truck lineup is set to drive a very strong 2015 for the Honda brand," said Jeff Conrad, Honda Division senior vice president and general manager. "Though the scales are definitely tipped toward trucks at the moment, we're really pleased at how Fit, Civic and Accord continue to outperform their rivals in the retail marketplace."
Acura
Even as Acura SUVs continue to perform well, Acura sedans showed renewed strength as the superbly balanced TLX set the bar for the brand in April, with sales of 4,093 units putting the TLX firmly in the top sales tier of its segment and pushing total Acura sales up 5.3 percent for the month. Acura's pace-setting luxury SUVs—RDX and MDX—also continued with brisk sales in April.
Total Acura brand sales gained 5.3 percent in April, with total sales reaching 14,874.
TLX drove the April increase on sales of 4,093 units for the month; sedan sales are up 29.4 percent since the beginning of the year.
Combined MDX and RDX sales continue to be a formidable force in the luxury SUV game—despite a changeover from 2015 to 2016 model production—with RDX sales reaching 3,972 and MDX finding 4,970 buyers in April for a total of almost 9,000 units for the month.
"The Acura TLX has renewed momentum that will continue to grow in the months ahead as it makes major inroads in the tough luxury sedan market," said Mike Accavitti, Acura Division senior vice president and general manager. "Despite tight supply during the transition from outgoing 2015 models to newly refreshed 2016 models, the RDX and MDX continued to perform exceptionally well in April."
Honda Fit again impresses with an 82-percent gain to lead strong Honda sedan sales
New HR-V debuts with incredible 6,381 units sold in half a month to lead record May Honda light truck sales with a 10.6-percent year-over-year gain to 63,979 units
Acura's 1st-year TLX continues to drive Acura sedan sales increases with second consecutive 4,000+ unit month for a 43.5-percent year-over-year sedan sales hike
Upgraded RDX 1st full sales month punches well over 5,000 units smashing May 2014 numbers by 24.3 percent and setting a new all-time monthly sales record
Top Acura performers accelerated the luxury brand sales by a substantial 16.1 percent
American Honda Motor Co., Inc. today reported May 2015 Honda and Acura vehicle sales of 154,593 units, with Honda light trucks gaining 10.6 percent on sales of 63,979 units and Acura sedans increasing 43.5 percent on sales of 6,278 vehicles. Month-to-month American Honda total sales were up 1.3 percent year-over-year, with the Acura Division gaining 16.1 percent on sales of 17,042 vehicles in May and the Honda Division posting sales of 137,551 vehicles, a decrease of 0.3 percent for the month.
Honda
With the introduction of the all-new HR-V entry crossover further strengthening the perennially popular Honda light truck lineup, the trifecta of HR-V, CR-V and Pilot CUVs proved a winning sales combination in May. The lineup will gain greater momentum with the June debut of the all-new 3rd-generation 2016 Pilot. The introductory vehicle to the Honda car lineup, the Fit is finding homes with a steeply increasing number of individual buyers, posting an 82% gain to 6,342 units in May. Accord and Civic continue to be incredibly popular, topping 30,000 units in sales, along with America's most popular SUV, the Honda CR-V.
Honda light trucks beat previous May record by 6,144 units for a total of 63,979 vehicles.
Sales of the second-generation 2015 Pilot increased 17 percent to 11,760 ahead of introduction of the third-generation 2016 model.
Fit posts 3rd consecutive month of over-6,000 unit sales for an 82-percent year-over-year May increase.
"The new Honda HR-V hit the ground running with an incredible sales performance in just a half month on the market with the all-new 2016 Pilot coming to market this month to further accelerate light truck sales," said Jeff Conrad, Honda Division senior vice president and general manager. "Despite the market trend toward light truck sales, our trio of Fit-Civic-Accord remains popular with individual buyers, and we're looking forward to a summer of hot sales."
Acura
Sales of the new TLX luxury sport sedan and upgraded ILX gateway luxury sedan boosted Acura sedan sales to an impressive increase of 43.5% from May 2014 with a total of 4,352 TLX models and 1,673 ILXs sold. Adding to Acura's overall 16.1% month-to-month gain to 17,042 vehicles was the refreshed RDX with all-time record sales of 5,343 units, combining with the popular MDX to produce sales of 10,764 Acura luxury SUVs in May.
With a total of 17,042 units sold, Acura brand sales gained 16.1% in May; every current Acura model up from previous month
Acura sedan sales up by 43.5% for May with a total of 6,278 vehicles driven by TLX sales of 4,352 units and ILX sales of 1,673.
MDX and RDX both post sales numbers over 5,000 units each for a May record total Acura light truck sales of 10,764 vehicles
"The Acura sedan lineup continues to build strong momentum with an increasing number of luxury customers getting behind the wheel of our TLX and ILX luxury performance models, " said Mike Accavitti, Acura Division senior vice president and general manager. "Together with the benchmark MDX and recently refreshed RDX, both topping 5,000 units in sales, we're looking forward to a long, hot summer of Acura sales."
Wow, the HR-V is doing really well. It also didn't seem to put a dent in CR-V sales either.
The new RDX is also doing really well.
The TLX seems to be doing better, and the ILX is doing okay.
The new RLX can't get here fast enough.
They were wrong. Shares of South Korea’s largest carmaker tumbled 10 percent on Tuesday to their lowest close since August 2010, making Hyundai the worst-performing stock among any major automaker in the past year.
It’s been a sobering 12 months for a company that until a few years ago was posting record profits and rattling larger competitors such as Volkswagen AG
Passenger Cars Join Light Trucks in Boosting American Honda June 2015 Sales
Jul 1, 2015 - TORRANCE, Calif.
Honda and Acura trucks post record June sales, beating the previous best by more than 3,500 units
Acura sedan sales double to lead brand increase of 38.6 percent in June
Acura RDX sets June sales record, up 45.1 percent on sales of 5,056 units
Honda CR-V sales up rise 8.5 percent with sales of 28,349 for a new June record
American Honda Motor Co., Inc. today reported June 2015 Honda and Acura vehicle sales of 134,397 units, an increase of 4.2 percent. Acura sedans led AHM's June increase, gaining 107.9 percent on sales of 5,878. Acura truck sales also increased, rising 15.2 percent with sales of 9,649 vehicles for a new June record. Honda trucks gained 18 percent on sales of 57,667, also a record for June, while Honda car sales were down 11.3 percent with 61,203 units sold. Total Honda brand sales reached 118,870 for a gain of 1 percent.
Honda
Honda trucks had a record month of June, gaining 18 percent. Honda's newest entry in the light truck market—the HR-V—continues to grab consumer attention, with sales topping 7,700 units in June, easily exceeding its stellar debut last month. The best-selling CR-V also enjoyed a record June and despite the strong consumer appetite for trucks, Honda's Accord and Civic continued strong sales while the Honda Fit scorched the sales charts yet again. Odyssey also gained ground in June.
The best-selling CR-V posted record June sales, realizing a 8.5 percent increase on sales of 28,349 vehicles.
Overall light truck sales remain on a record pace with Odyssey posting a 6.5 percent increase in June with sales of 11,621, supporting the record sales of CR-V and strong start for HR-V while the all-new 2016 Pilot enters the market.
Sales of the versatile Fit jumped 26.3 percent, with 4,669 vehicles sold last month, part of the strong passenger car lineup that included combined sales of nearly 60,000 units for Civic and Accord.
"With the introduction of the 2016 Pilot late last month, our SUV lineup is the strongest it has ever been, and it was already in very good shape," said Jeff Conrad, Honda Division senior vice president and general manager. "The next several months will be exciting as we begin to renew and expand our car lineup."
Acura
Acura sedans stepped into the sales limelight in June, continuing recent momentum and doubling last year's June sedan sales total on the strength of TLX and ILX. Overall Acura sales totaled 15,527, lifting the brand 38.6 percent in June. Not to be outdone, Acura's RDX captured yet another sales record in June while MDX remained in high demand, though somewhat capacity constrained. Overall, Acura truck sales were up 15.2 percent with sales of 9,649 vehicles.
TLX sales continued to gain momentum, nearly reaching 4,000 units again.
ILX took a sharp upward turn with a record June performance, gaining 79.1 percent on sales of 1,662. Acura sedan sales totaled 5,878 in June, a 107.9 percent increase.
The recently refreshed RDX continued to resonate strongly with customers, up 45.1 percent on sales of 5,056 for its best June on record.
"It is exciting to see Acura sedans enjoy success in the face of a market where light trucks have been dominating," said Mike Accavitti, Acura Division senior vice president and general manager. "We're pleased by the record month for the refreshed RDX, but the growing momentum of the TLX and ILX is key to the future of the Acura brand."
NEW ORLEANS -- Acura says the new TLX sedan can become the brand's volume leader, a role once occupied by its predecessor, the TL sedan.
Recalling the days when annual TL sales consistently topped 60,000, John Mendel, American Honda's executive vice president of sales, said after Acura's make meeting here: "We can clearly see TLX adding that kind of volume to the Acura franchise."
If TLX sales are around 4,000 for July too, then TLX will hit 45,000 units in its 1st year of sales as we expected. Another sales goal miss.
ILX still not doing well despite MMC improvements. Doesn't look like it will exceed last year's U.S. sales of 17,854. If it does, it won't be by much, and it won't hit Acura's 25,000 (or was it revised down to 20,000?) annual sales target.
8,471 ILX's sold (in U.S.) in 1st 6 months of 2015 vs 8,357 in 2014 and 10,724 in 2013.
If TLX sales are around 4,000 for July too, then TLX will hit 45,000 units in its 1st year of sales as we expected. Another sales goal miss.
ILX still not doing well despite MMC improvements. Doesn't look like it will exceed last year's U.S. sales of 17,854. If it does, it won't be by much, and it won't hit Acura's 25,000 (or was it revised down to 20,000?) annual sales target.
8,471 ILX's sold (in U.S.) in 1st 6 months of 2015 vs 8,357 in 2014 and 10,724 in 2013.
Oh, and what the hell. 1 ZDX sold?
how about you look at Hyundai and Kia. the so called RWD/V8 Equus sales are now less than RLX. and Genesis is less than TLX. and there pants are down by concentrating on too many sedans and uncompetitive SUV. Honda pilot will demolished them.
If Acura introduce two SUVs one up scale than MDX with RLX-Hybrid engine to compete with RR and one lower than RDX than Acura sales can simply double. Acrua is still the most efficient line up with only two SUV and three sedans.
^ Oh yeah, let's bring in H/K into the discussion about Acura sedan sales.
Originally Posted by SSFTSX
now where is the so called RWD and V8 models like Genssis/Equus boost. Yeh will come with capacity constraint.
The 2G Genesis sedan is the 3rd best selling luxury midsize sedan in the US (2nd in Canada) - and sold 100k in 18 months (for 1st 5 -6 months only sold in Korea), so should do over 300k over its life-cycle.
Hyundai actually boosted capacity for the Genesis sedan - when was the last time we ever heard that about the RLX? (Oh yes - Honda was limiting production to boost exclusivity.)
YTD - Honda/Acura has an 8.6% share of the US market and H/K has a 8.0% share - hardly a material difference.
And as I had stated before, Hyundai management messed up by not building another NA plant (probably will start a 2nd US plant late this year) - which has really constrained CUV supply.
Honda can build more Accords than Hyundai can build Sonatas/Elantras at its sole US plant.
So any growth will be curtailed until Kia's Mexico plant goes online next year, Hyundai's 2nd US plant is finished (probably 2017) and both add to their limited CUV lineups.
As for Honda, w/o the addition of a new CUV, the HR-V, sales would actually be down for the year (651,1773 vs. 661,485 YTD 2014).
Not surprisingly, it's CUV/SUVs which are driving Honda/Acura sales just like for everyone else (which is why Jeep, LR and Subie have been doing so well).
Originally Posted by SSFTSX
how about you look at Hyundai and Kia. the so called RWD/V8 Equus sales are now less than RLX. and Genesis is less than TLX. and there pants are down by concentrating on too many sedans and uncompetitive SUV. Honda pilot will demolished them.
So, the RLX now competes with the Equus instead of the Genesis? lol
The Genesis sedan is on track to sell over 30k in the US/Canada; the RLX is on track to sell 2,600 for the year in the US/Canada (and as stated above, the 2G Genesis should do over 300k over its life-cycle - how many of the current RLX do you think Honda will sell?).
H/K is on track to sell 3,800 of the Equus and K900 for the year - so, even there, the RLX lags behind and that's with the Korean sedans not yet being available w/ AWD.
Anyway you look at it, H/K has surpassed Acura in selling luxury sedans (able to sell them at a higher price point despite no luxury badge).
There's a new Equus and K900 (equipped with AWD and a TTV6 at least for the K900) on the way, as well as the production version of the Kia GT and a compact Hyundai sports sedan (which will be around the price of the TLX).
But what they really need is a Genesis-based CUV and probably will see that green-lit fairly soon (about a couple of years too slow).
Hyundai, in particular, has been too preoccupied with the BRIC nations (building 2 more plants in China - which runs the danger of overcapacity, at least for the near term) - and launching a subcompact CUV in China and the other BRIC nations while it will be another 2 years before NA and Europe get one.
If TLX sales are around 4,000 for July too, then TLX will hit 45,000 units in its 1st year of sales as we expected. Another sales goal miss.
ILX still not doing well despite MMC improvements. Doesn't look like it will exceed last year's U.S. sales of 17,854. If it does, it won't be by much, and it won't hit Acura's 25,000 (or was it revised down to 20,000?) annual sales target.
8,471 ILX's sold (in U.S.) in 1st 6 months of 2015 vs 8,357 in 2014 and 10,724 in 2013.
The 2G Genesis sedan is the 3rd best selling luxury midsize sedan in the US (2nd in Canada) - and sold 100k in 18 months (for 1st 5 -6 months only sold in Korea), so should do over 300k over its life-cycle.
TLX is second best selling mid size luxury sedan. so?. look at actual transaction prices. I even doubt Genesis can compete against TLX. TLX handle so much better even with worse SUV size tire x-section.
Hyundai actually boosted capacity for the Genesis sedan - when was the last time we ever heard that about the RLX? (Oh yes - Honda was limiting production to boost exclusivity.)
Genesis never compete with RLX. RLX is Japan exclusive made. Just the music system is leap years ahead. If RLX get the 9speed auto for FWD and AWD it will blast to drive. even with 6speed auto its the fastest/quitest 6 cylinder luxury vehicle to 0-130mph.
YTD - Honda/Acura has an 8.6% share of the US market and H/K has a 8.0% share - hardly a material difference.
there is big difference in transactional prices. Honda HRV is selling at prices far higher than Sonata.
And as I had stated before, Hyundai management messed up by not building another NA plant (probably will start a 2nd US plant late this year) - which has really constrained CUV supply.
I have been hearing the same excuses from you since 2011.
Honda can build more Accords than Hyundai can build Sonatas/Elantras at its sole US plant.
Hyundai is selling more Elantras than Sonatas. Only the cheap looking for Hyundai.
So any growth will be curtailed until Kia's Mexico plant goes online next year, Hyundai's 2nd US plant is finished (probably 2017) and both add to their limited CUV lineups.
Honda has now leg up in Mexico plant and is likely already hired the best workers. Kia quality will get a lot worse.
As for Honda, w/o the addition of a new CUV, the HR-V, sales would actually be down for the year (651,1773 vs. 661,485 YTD 2014).
HRV is not addition when Insight/CRZ/Civic Hybrid/CNG/ILX hybrid/ZDX/Cross tour/Element and TL/TSX went away. Remember Honda moto is to decrease the vehicles line up.
Not surprisingly, it's CUV/SUVs which are driving Honda/Acura sales just like for everyone else (which is why Jeep, LR and Subie have been doing so well).
that's I am telling you Honda SUVs are getting number 1 in there segments. look at RDX sells figure now. Loaded Elite model of Pilots with sport kit are selling above MDX price . and people are waiting to buy them like they wait in line to buy latest iCrap product.
So, the RLX now competes with the Equus instead of the Genesis? lol
AWD hybrid model is super fast and refined. competing above Equus.
The Genesis sedan is on track to sell over 30k in the US/Canada; the RLX is on track to sell 2,600 for the year in the US/Canada (and as stated above, the 2G Genesis should do over 300k over its life-cycle - how many of the current RLX do you think Honda will sell?).
TLX sedan is on track to sell above 50k in US/Canada.
H/K is on track to sell 3,800 of the Equus and K900 for the year - so, even there, the RLX lags behind and that's with the Korean sedans not yet being available w/ AWD.
RLX does not compete with these low grade products.
Anyway you look at it, H/K has surpassed Acura in selling luxury sedans (able to sell them at a higher price point despite no luxury badge).
that's is your opinion. I can easly find Hyundai Equus at price lower than AWD RLX.
There's a new Equus and K900 (equipped with AWD and a TTV6 at least for the K900) on the way, as well as the production version of the Kia GT and a compact Hyundai sports sedan (which will be around the price of the TLX).
And there is new NSX. at selling price three time Equus with whole world on waiting list.
Waiting List Increasing for 2015 Honda Civic Type R
Unsurprisingly, the 2015 Honda Civic Type R is proving exceptionally popular for the Japanese brand with confirmation that the sporty hot hatch has already sold out in the United Kingdom until February next year.
But what they really need is a Genesis-based CUV and probably will see that green-lit fairly soon (about a couple of years too slow).
Hyundai will soon run out of money if they keep doing what they doing. market cap is far below Honda. Honda can even buy Hyundai now.
Hyundai Motor dropped out of the list of 500 largest-cap companies
According to the Bloomberg on June 4, Hyundai Motor has exited the list of the world’s 500 largest companies. It took the 337th place as of the end of last year with its market capital $34.06 billion or 37.7 trillion won but was battered with lackluster performance and share drop.
However, Volkswagen rose by two notches from 68th to 70th with $14.6 billion won or 115.8 trillion won, and Japanese carmakers such as Toyota, Honda, and Nissan jumped from 21st to 18th, 190th to 165th, and 270th to 226th respectively. Apple kept the top position with $748.7 billion or 828.8 trillion won of market capitalization, up by $101.3 billion or 112 trillion won this year.
Hyundai, in particular, has been too preoccupied with the BRIC nations (building 2 more plants in China - which runs the danger of overcapacity, at least for the near term) - and launching a subcompact CUV in China and the other BRIC nations while it will be another 2 years before NA and Europe get one.
Hyunda is too preoccupied with cheap car. that's it never able to start its own premium brand. it just created too many low cost models and duplicate work with Kia. Hyundai/Kia is lucky that Honda is not brining Honda City otherwise this torison beam suspension Elantra/Accent will be in dustbin.
how about you look at Hyundai and Kia. the so called RWD/V8 Equus sales are now less than RLX.
Ok, let's look at the Hyundai Equus. It has been on sale in the U.S. since Dec 2010. Meanwhile, the Acura RL (now RLX) has been on sale in the U.S. since the beginning of 1996.... 15 years longer.
Now let's look at their sales #s for the past 5 years.
. . . . . Equus vs RL(X)
2011: 3,193 vs 1,096
2012: 3,972 vs 379
2013: 3,578 vs 5053
2014: 3,415 vs 3,413
up to June 2015: 1,159 vs 1,200
___________________________
TOTAL: 15,317 vs 11,141
Wow! The RLX is outselling the Equus in the U.S. by 41 units in 2015 (so far). Hurray! Acura is saved!
For a model that's been around 15 years longer, I would expect the RL(X) to outsell the Equus by more than 41 units. 15 extra years to market and establish the RL(X) model and Acura can only muster 41 more units so far in 2015?
Originally Posted by SSFTSX
and Genesis is less than TLX.
The Genesis has always sold less than the TL(X). No surprise that it still is. But for a model that's existed for half the time the TL(X) has been around, those numbers aren't too bad. And if it didn't have a Hyundai badge, it would be doing better.
Originally Posted by SSFTSX
Genesis never compete with RLX. RLX is Japan exclusive made. Just the music system is leap years ahead. If RLX get the 9speed auto for FWD and AWD it will blast to drive. even with 6speed auto its the fastest/quitest 6 cylinder luxury vehicle to 0-130mph.
AWD hybrid model is super fast and refined. competing above Equus.
Super fast because "Honda hp are much more than other company hp," huh?
So if the RLX is so exclusive, the music system is so ahead, is a blast to drive, is the "fastest/quitest 6 cylinder luxury vehicle to 0-130mph," and is above the Genesis and Equus, . . . . not to mention the RLX's Best in class ground clearance, Best in class side mirror aerodynamics, Best in class safety, Best in class refinement, Best in class fuel economic, Best in class rear leg room, Best in class reliability, Best in class pot hole proofness, etc. . . . then why is it doing so poorly in sales?
And who is the RLX competing against if it's "competing above Equus?" The only other makes and models I can think of are the Lexus LS, BMW 7 series, Audi A8, and Mercedes S class, . . . and the RLX is definitely not competing with them in sales either.
Originally Posted by SSFTSX
Originally Posted by YEH
H/K is on track to sell 3,800 of the Equus and K900 for the year - so, even there, the RLX lags behind and that's with the Korean sedans not yet being available w/ AWD.
RLX does not compete with these low grade products.
Then why did you suggest we "look at Hyundai and Kia" above, in post # 2908?
Originally Posted by SSFTSX
Originally Posted by YEH
Anyway you look at it, H/K has surpassed Acura in selling luxury sedans (able to sell them at a higher price point despite no luxury badge).
that's is your opinion. I can easly find Hyundai Equus at price lower than AWD RLX.
It's not an opinion when you look at the sales numbers, as I posted above. Overall, the Equus has been outselling the RL(X) since 2011 / when it went on sale in the U.S.
Ok, let's look at the Hyundai Equus. It has been on sale in the U.S. since Dec 2010. Meanwhile, the Acura RL (now RLX) has been on sale in the U.S. since the beginning of 1996.... 15 years longer.
Now let's look at their sales #s for the past 5 years.
. . . . . Equus vs RL(X)
2011: 3,193 vs 1,096
2012: 3,972 vs 379
2013: 3,578 vs 5053
2014: 3,415 vs 3,413
up to June 2015: 1,159 vs 1,200
___________________________
TOTAL: 15,317 vs 11,141
Wow! The RLX is outselling the Equus in the U.S. by 41 units in 2015 (so far). Hurray! Acura is saved!
You have to understand level of investment in RLX is not much compared to hyundai investments in Equus like separate V8 engine/RWD platoform. RLX is still Honda legend.
For a model that's been around 15 years longer, I would expect the RL(X) to outsell the Equus by more than 41 units. 15 extra years to market and establish the RL(X) model and Acura can only muster 41 more units so far in 2015?
Provided Acura invest in RLX platform. Just BMW invested in 7 series with plethora of engines, LWB, Alpina models, customization etc.
The Genesis has always sold less than the TL(X). No surprise that it still is. But for a model that's existed for half the time the TL(X) has been around, those numbers aren't too bad. And if it didn't have a Hyundai badge, it would be doing better.
Genesis is need alot more discounts and alot more customization to sell. It need to sell much higher than TLX. Too bad Hyundai cant put a premium badge on Genessis.
Super fast because "Honda hp are much more than other company hp," huh?
So if the RLX is so exclusive, the music system is so ahead, is a blast to drive, is the "fastest/quitest 6 cylinder luxury vehicle to 0-130mph," and is above the Genesis and Equus, . . . . not to mention the RLX's Best in class ground clearance, Best in class side mirror aerodynamics, Best in class safety, Best in class refinement, Best in class fuel economic, Best in class rear leg room, Best in class reliability, Best in class pot hole proofness, etc. . . . then why is it doing so poorly in sales?
It is doing reasonable well relative to investment and inventory.
And who is the RLX competing against if it's "competing above Equus?" The only other makes and models I can think of are the Lexus LS, BMW 7 series, Audi A8, and Mercedes S class, . . . and the RLX is definitely not competing with them in sales either.
RLX FWD is faster than LS460 V8 as much quieter. so it is not some lesser car. RLX AWD hybrid can easily compete in refinement and performance with V8 competitors like Audi A8/7
It's not an opinion when you look at the sales numbers, as I posted above. Overall, the Equus has been outselling the RL(X) since 2011 / when it went on sale in the U.S.
Sales numbers does not tell the story when there big discounts and too many models involved. Stock market performance and profitibility with deep R&D is the key. Hyunda is badly lagging behind Honda.
If Honda bring Honda City it will demolish Kia-Hyundai sales by as much as 30%. Honda City has more rear legroom than Civic and $5k on avg cheaper.
So the deluded one admits to Honda/Acura having cheapening out/mailing it in with the RL/RLX (gee, I wonder why prospective buyers have gone zZZZZZZ when it comes to Honda's flagship sedan?).
And H/K and are perfectly fine shape when it comes to their investment in a RWD platform and a V8 engine.
Hyundai, thus far, has sold over 15k of the Equus in the US and with the K900 - will be around the 20k mark by the end of the year and should sell around 25k by the time their respective replacements arrive.
At the current sales pace - the RLX will be around the 18k sales mark (assuming a 6 year life-cycle).
Furthermore, Hyundai sells about 10k of the Equus annually in Korea, so all told - the Equus/K900 should sell over 100k over their life-cycle.
Doubt that the RLX/Legend will come close to that in sales.
In addition, the Equus, K900 and 1G Genesis share the same basic platform, transmission and engines.
This will also be the case for the next gen models of the Equus and K900, as well as for the new production version of the Kia GT.
As the 2G Genesis has already sold over 100k (in 18 months), all told - the Genesis, GT, Equus and K900 should sell well over 400k worldwide over their life-cycles, maybe even hit 500k.
And if Hyundai (not to mention) goes ahead and develops a Genesis-based crossover, that would further increase the efficiencies.
Sales of the RLX/Legend won't even sniff that - but that's OK, Honda has the Accord sales to fall back upon.
Also, despite Honda having the separate luxury brand/dealer network - the Equus starts $10k higher than the RLX and the Genesis $7k more than the TLX.
And when it comes to comparisons to the midsize German lux sedans, as well as the CTS, XF and GS - the Genesis gets a lot more mention than either the TLX or RLX (with the RLX not even considered to be a contender in the luxury flagship comparisons).
The supposed V8 substitute, the RLX hybrid has done a whopping 119 units YTD (but hey, at least that better than the 54 for the GS450h).
As the 2G Genesis has already sold over 100k (in 18 months), all told - the Genesis, GT, Equus and K900 should sell well over 400k worldwide over their life-cycles, maybe even hit 500k.
You do realize your analysis are complete joke. once models past first two years there sales rapidly declines. You will be lucky to hit 300k sales across all V8 platforms/RWD paltforms over 6 year period.
only 1000 mile on speedo and already 15k discount on asking price. fully certified. Your competing against the money losing V8 business without SUV to support it like Lexus LX/GX/Land Cruiser.
On other hand Honda Pilot and next Ridgline sales alone will be closer to 2M or above mark. They are built for global markets that's why the Elite model, Torque vectoring, Sand/Mud/Snow ability with locking rear differential.
2016 Honda Pilot - Powertrain - Model Press Kit - Honda News
By rotating the outside rear wheel faster than the front wheels while cornering, the Pilot's AWD system uses torque vectoring to create a yaw moment to help turn the vehicle through the corner — reducing understeer and improving controllability. With cornering forces more evenly distributed between front and rear tires, overall cornering power is increased in all road conditions.
Developed, tuned and tested at various locations in the U.S. and around the world – including Imperial Dunes "Glamis", California; Moscow, Russia; and Dubai, United Arab Emirates – the Intelligent Traction Management system allows the driver to select the operating mode that best suits the driving conditions by simply pushing a button on the vehicle's center console. System information and an animated selected mode icon is shown on the color Multi-Information Display (as shown in the second image on the following page). Based on the setting selected, the system adjusts the drive-by-wire map, transmission shift map, i-VTM4 power distribution and Vehicle Stability Assist™ for optimal performance in varying road or surface conditions.
04-05-2015, 01:59 AM
April 2015
May
