AZuser

I guess comparing sales of a brand new model vs final year outgoing models is one way to look at it.

Or we can compare sales during 1st January for new TLX vs sales during 1st January for new 4G TL and new 2G TSX, which would be in 2009.

Jan 2015 TLX sales = 2,892
Jan 2009 4G TL sales (2,317) + Jan 2009 2G TSX sales (2,406) = 4,723


Acura would need to sell an average of 4,282 TLX's each of the next 11 months to hit 50,000 per year in sales. Can it be done?


176 RLX's. New low. And down from 420 in Jan 2014. Ouch!

neuronbob

No marketing + minimal inventory=no sales. Let's face it, Acura has effectively given up on the RLX for now and they have told their RL/RLX customers who want upgrades nothing.

It may be that they want to do an early MMC to reboot sales. Or they may decided they want to cancel the model altogether.

It's too bad. My Sport Hybrid has been fantastic so far other than the typical mileage loss that comes with winter in all hybrids.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

The RLX AWD is an awesome car but it came a little bit late when the FWD model was getting slammed....and the styling doesn't stand out enough to attract most $50k car buyers...

JAB00

2,892 for the month of January is not that good and middle of the pack. It's crazy to think that the 3G TL at its peak was selling close to 7K a month. Acura really bungled the 4G and I don't think they can ever recover especially since the competition in that segment is fierce. The RLX is dead in the water now and in the near term future, short of a spectacular design matted with class leading specs during next generation. I hope this is a lesson learned going forward for Acura and Honda not to have radical departures from something that is successful (ie MDX/RDX/3G TL, 1G RL). Design is very important and wild departures from design language with middling performance is generally a recipe for failure.

AZuser

Funny how people in the TLX section were cheering and boasting about Sept, Oct, Nov and Dec sales when they were strong, but there hasn't been a peep about Jan sales (yet).

It probably didn't help that the RL had such a long run before the next FMC. No new updated design for 7-8 years makes things stale.

I know BMW, Mercedes, and Audi have long runs before the next FMC for their flagships too, but I don't think Acura can afford to be like them. The Legend had a shorter 5-6 year run before the next FMC, until Acura killed it and gave it a name.

Acura needs to keep things fresh until they can build a solid sales base and following.

oonowindoo

I was just talking to my friend who is the head of sales at a local Acura dealer about TLX.

Remember, Acura told all the dealer to stop selling TLX to inspect the tranny? that only lasted for a few days and the sale was resumed. and they are trying to push the V6 models so bad that they are giving all kind of weird incentive from Acura Corp.

Things like if a V6 TLX is sold (any trim), the sale guy will get an ADDITIONAL bonus from the corp directly by spinning a wheel (it could be either $200, $300 or $500) on top of his regular commission.

The TLX Inventory at his dealership between V6 and I4 is 5:1, not because they get more V6s but they can't sell any V6 of any trim. However, the 4 bangers are flying off the lot.
and we are talking about the Acura dealership in the middle of LA 626 where all the are

Being across street from #1 selling BMW dealership in So cal does not help them either.

NBP04TL4ME

I find this very interesting. I would have expected this to be more balanced.
Maybe Acura expected the same seeing the TLX is supposed to be replacing both the TL and TSX???

oonowindoo

When i went to test drive the I4 a few months ago, there was only 1 I4 available and that was the one i drove.

All of rest including the one in the show room, outside the showroom were all V6...

They were not selling already at the time. It seems it has not gotten any better.

Basically the Market just told Acura, TLX V6 is just not good enough to be at the $40k+ market segment.

What is more interesting is the best selling trim is not the base $30k model, it is the $35k I4 with tech package.
Something does not add up if Acura can sell $35k 4 banger with little discount offered but they cannot sell a $40k V6 with a lot more discount offered and gas price is at $2.40/gallon.

NBP04TL4ME

I'm not in the market but if the TLX was on my radar, I would think (haven't tested either I4 or V6) I would prefer the V6 as I have been driving a V6 for 11+ years. We have an I4 Accord in the driveway for the kids and I drive it from time to time. It's fine, but it's not the V6 of my TLS or my wife's ES350.
Again I say this without having driven either TLX.

oonowindoo

I don't think it is the car itself... i'd prefer the V6 too since the I4 was slow as shit when i drove it.

But it is about its competitors and the market itself.

I would assume that the #1 reason that the I4 tech was the top seller was because its price and value.

But the moment you shift to $40k+ segment, those factors are not as important anymore.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

To put things into perspective, here are the comparison numbers from current competition (not from years ago which is pretty much irrelevant):

3 series no data but pretty sure it will be closer to 10k..lol
Cclass 6,236 +8.5%
ES 4,080 -.9%
IS 3,375 +6.5%
Q50 2,966 +.6%
TLX 2,892
CLA 2,491 +2.4%
A3 2,383
LaCrosse 2,023 -29%
MKZ 1,830 -13.8%
ATS 1,757 -8%
A4 1,563 -28.8%
Q40 1,029 +14.1%
TL 18 -98.7%

It's also interesting to see how the TLX does compared to the ever popular MDX and RDX.
Jan 2015 vs Dec 2014:
TLX: 2892 vs 3834 (25% drop)
MDX: 4381 vs 6761 (35% drop)
RDX: 3517 vs 5156 (32% drop)

oonowindoo

You know something is wrong when the Q50 is outselling the TLX.

NBP04TL4ME

Maybe the TLX V6 becomes more of a "value" with all of those special discounts, but I'm sure Acura gets concerned when the discounted price of the V6 starts encroaches on the I4 territory. Sounds like a CF to me.

oonowindoo

with such big discount only a few months in since launched... i dont know .. that does not sound like a good plan to me..

NBP04TL4ME

Like I said - it sounds like a CF to me.

oonowindoo

Carbon Fiber?

That is only thing i can think of when I see CF.

NBP04TL4ME

- No, not carbon fiber. Cluster F*ck

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

What happened to the still-relatively new ATS? The best handling car with the best chassis which is even better than the 3 series by far?

oonowindoo

It might be better but how many Cadillac did you really expect to sell?

kurtatx

ATS just has too much going against it.

Outdated styling, bad dashboard, bad marque.

iutodd

Look at the comparison numbers and look at last year. Last year the IS sold just over 3,000 units in January and it sold 51,000 for the year. Last year the RDX sold 2700 units in January and it sold 45,000 units for the year. The key for Acura is how well the TLX moves during bigger months. The TLX sold almost 5000 units in October so we know it can get big numbers.

January is basically always the lowest month of sales for any successful model unless it's newly released or something like that.

We'll know pretty much by the end of March what the TLX is going to do for the year. Hopefully Acura is paying attention and building I4s and SHAWDs as fast as they can - I think that's what Acura people keep talking about when they say they can't keep up with demand. It seems there are plenty of FWD V6s to be had. But March was Acura's second biggest month of the year last year...some of that is pent up demand after the slow/cold start to the year last year but a fairly big jump in sales is a fairly consistent pattern. Let's look at the numbers a different way-

TLX percentage of Acura's overall sales:

September: 28.0%
October: 31.6%
November: 28.5%
December: 21.5%
January: 24.1%

December was low in part because of the stop sale. January picked back up but was still somewhat lower than it had been throughout the fall. The TLX will find it's level at some point. If the number is between 24 and 28% the TLX will break 40,000 units. If it's 21% then it will stuck in the mid-30s and be a disappointment. It seems impossible that Acura wouldn't just be building all the SHAWD and I4s they can right now - I'm sure dealers are screaming for them.

And of course Acura is going to push the TLX. Acura's success this year is dependent upon the TLX breaking at least 40,000 units if not more so go make a deal. You guys don't think BMW dealers are dealing on 3 series? Truecar still shows prices paid for TLXs running pretty close to MSRP - or at least nowhere near invoice - in my area - or at least much closer than the 3 series and Q50 are to MSRP.

Edward'TLS

The MDX sales is expected to jump back up again, when the 2016 model comes out very soon with the new 9-speed autobox and a new bunch of advanced driving assist features, as well as an unbelievable long list of model trim levels that tries to mimic the custom ordering feel of European luxury vehicles.

AZuser

I'm seriously going to if Acura ends up having to put a stop sale on it because of the 9AT

TSX69

Honda Acura Sales Going thru the Roof:
Is This the Start of a Winning Streak?

Honda Motor Co. (NYSE: HMC ) is doing all it can to push its luxury brand's sales in the world's largest luxury car market -- the United States. With oil prices crashing and the country's purchasing power rising, Americans might not mind splurging on expensive cars this year. Actually, the trend has already begun. Acura clocked an impressive sales spike toward the end of 2014; could its future be just as exciting, if not more so? Let's look through the windshield to see what lies ahead for Acura and Honda.

Falling oil prices and rising Acura sales
In the 1st half of 2014, lukewarm Acura sales were a key reason for Honda's 1% sales drop in the U.S. But by the time 2014 ended, Acura had actually helped Honda post 1 of its best sales years in the U.S.

Honda had been struggling with Acura sedan sales, but all that changed with the launch of the Acura TLX in August. The midsize sedan sold 19,127 units through December, which is more than the full-year sales of the 2nd-place vehicle in the Acura sedan lineup: the ILX.

Car sales are benefiting from the plunge in the price of oil in a big way. Americans, now with more disposable income, are showing huge interest in luxury brands. This helped the Honda Acura improve 2014 sales by 1.5% from the previous year. In fact, 2014 saw Acura sell the most vehicles since 2007.

Acura's December sales tally demonstrated that Honda's efforts to improve the brand's sales are bearing fruit, with the ILX and TLX sedans being significant contributors. While the brand gained 13% year over year, it also pulled up the company's sales for the month by 1.5%.

Honda betting on Acura
Automakers shower a lot of attention on luxury cars, as they fetch much better margins than the regular models, and Honda is no exception. The auto giant takes home an additional $15,000 for each Acura model it sells versus an average Honda car. Acura accounted for 11% of Honda's total sales in the U.S. in 2014, and an even higher proportion of profits, owing to its high margins.

Sports utility vehicles are responsible for roughly 65% of the brand's sales. MDX, Acura's best-selling SUV for 2014, accounted for more than 39% of total brand sales for the year. In fact, 2014 was the MDX's best year ever -- it sold 65,603 units, registering 23.7% growth over 2013. The RDX wasn't far behind -- with deliveries of 44,865 units, it made up 27% of Acura's 2014 sales.

The winning streak could continue
Acura's recent performance could be just the beginning of its winning ways. The U.S. luxury vehicle market is projected to climb 9.8% during 2015, according to auto website TrueCar. Alec Gutierrez, senior analyst for Kelley Blue Book, has high hopes for the U.S. luxury market in 2015: "With gas prices at a 3-year low and with consumer confidence at a 7-year high, this [profitable] trend should continue." Tanking oil prices and low interest rates are tempting buyers -- creating the perfect setting for Acura to cash in.

Honda is confident of hitting record U.S. sales in 2015. The hot-selling TLX sedan could be a big part of the success. American Honda Executive Vice President John Mendel told Columbus Business 1st: "It's going gangbusters. We're still struggling to meet the demand."

More launches are in the cards. Honda in January introduced the refreshed version of the Acura NSX at the North American International Auto Show. The 2016 NSX super-sportscar, returning to the American market after a decade, packs a punch and could well put Honda in the league of the most sought-after luxury car manufacturers. Deliveries will begin later in the year.

The 2016 ILX, Acura's entry-level sedan, will hit dealerships in the 1st half of 2015. New launches are known to be sales drivers and could help Honda attract more buyers.

Honda's long-term efforts at rejuvenating Acura are finally paying off. Demand for the MDX and RDX are at record levels while the TLX has infused new life into Acura's entry-level sedan lineup. And with the NSX, Honda at last has found its "halo" car. Mendel has declared 2015 the "Year of Honda," and the company's luxury arm could play a big role in turning the phrase into reality.

RPhilMan1

That's really not something to be proud of.

oonowindoo

There are so many flaws with your assumptions.

Give you 1 example, the current Q50 should NEVER outsell a brand new TLX with a starting price at $30k....

Allen-

I'm not 100% against Acura offering a HR-V variant, but I'm not completely sold on the notion that they know how to respin it far enough from the Honda variant. If they do give it the green light, it needs to remain versatile. That seems to be the allure of the X1, GLA, etc.

The TLX has given a glimmer of hope, but the ILX, in my opinion, was a step backwards in design. It now looks even more like a Civic.

If the Acura HR-V does come to fruition, it doesn't need to be a repeat of the 2G RDX. It needs SH-AWD, a good engine, better styling, better trim levels, and a fully baked interior.

I am pleased to see Acura responding (seemingly) quicker trends. The new 9AT in the MDX without a MMC was surprising. Hopefully the RDX can take a large step forward. The RLX is a few years away from an overhaul so I don't expect much there.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Hmm..with its excellent chassis, I'd have thought it would be a whole lot better.

Oh for sure. you see, my point is that, January is usually a slow month, even for popular models like the MDX.

Heck, have a look at the 3 series/4series:
Dec 2014: 19,464
Jan 2015: 7,348
Percentage Drop: -62.2%

Does that mean 3 series is a flop? Hell no!

But ya, 16 freaking trims for the MDX...wow... would be interesting to see how the ZF 9AT will hold up.

Hmmm I think his post is based on sales figures and coming up with some logical speculations.

He assumed that the TLX I4 and AWD models are in higher demand, which you also concurred earlier (especially the I4 model). He assumed the FWD V6 isn't selling well, again, that's what you said earlier too.

He assumed the low % of TLX in December is from the stop sale. That can be true too. While you have a point that the stop sale was only for several days, but it's possible to have a lingering effect to potential buyers in their mind.

About breaking the barrier of 40k units, that's pretty much assuming Acura will sell 160k cars this year. Acura reached 165k in 2013, then 168k in 2014. Is it a big mistake to assume that Acura will again break 160k in 2015?

Then he talked about how Truecar is showing the TLX in his area is near MSRP, while the Q50 is closer to invoice. That's not really an assumption...unless you ASSUME that he's assuming that's the trend everywhere in USA.

oonowindoo

HR-V will not have SHAWD..... it is not compatible with any of its 4 cylinder engines... wait correction: the only 4 cylinder engine available.

oonowindoo

you tend to leave out a lot of details when you post.

How about when he compared discount figures with 3 series that has been out since 2012.
and AWD is not in high demand. if anything it is worse than FWD V6 models.
The stop sales had little to no impact to the sales figures because sales people at the dealer did NOT tell their customers that there is a recall so they can't sell. They were not that stupid.
Instead, what they told the customers who were trying to buy is.... wait for a few days. There were only a few customers who were aware of the issue.

Q50 is closer to invoice, because no one wanted it... it was a huge letdown for the G37 followings. There were not enough repeat customers from people who leased G37C or Sedan for obvious reasons, me included, which is WHY Q50 should never outsell TLX with a $30k starting price, considering everyone including Acura is thinking TLX should be a successful product.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

lol I don't know man, some my posts are quite long...not sure if I really wanna make them any longer with each and every piece of detail!

Do you have the demand chart of each trim?

Are you assuming every dealer is USA is hiding the stop sale?

Are you assuming that most customers don't do their research online when purchasing a $30k+ new car about any issues?

Why is Q50 a big let down? It's a big let down to you and some G37 owners, but is it a big let down for new customers? My understanding is that the biggest issue is the steer by wire system but one can opt for the conventional wheel setup.

The Q50 is not doing as well as G35/G37. And I can understand why some people don't like it. However, is it really that bad of a car? It's still outselling the likes of ATS and A4 (yes A4 is getting dated) by far. I just feel it's a bit too absolute to say that the TLX should never be outsold by the Q50.

oonowindoo

Let down is not the same as bad car. A car could be a let down while being a good car (RLX)

If the replacement is not selling as well as the car it replaced, then it is a let down regardless what the reasons might be.

The same questions you asked me can be ask:
Are you assuming every dealer is USA is hiding the stop sale?
Are you assuming every dealer in the USA IS NOT hiding the stop sale?

Are you assuming that most customers don't do their research online when purchasing a $30k+ new car about any issues?
Are you assuming that most customers really do their research online or just go to the dealership?

Since no one has a definite answer to that, we can only say most of the people who buy cars don't know shit about cars = little to no research is done.

They get the news from TV, magazines and what they see. not on the forum.

We can agree Q50 is not a successful product based on sales #s alone compare to what was replaced.

What does that tell you when Q50 is outselling TLX that has been in the market for less than 6 months?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Haha, fair enough about let down vs bad car. I understand your point and agree about the RLX.

We can flip the questions back and forth, but really in the end, we don't have any proof either way. You can say most consumers wouldn't know because they are clueless when it comes to car issues. But I really am not sure about not doing any research. That's really up for debate. I guess we'll just need to agree to disagree. In my social circle, people who are clueless about cars at the very least would ask friends who know about cars for info. Perhaps it's a bit different for you?

You know, the G was a massive success, on par with the 3G TL. Right now, it's safe to say that the Q50 and TLX would probably not gonna reach those heights again. I think the difference between me and you is that, if a new model is doing worse than the previous model, then that's a let down, which is understandable. For me, I try to understand the reasons (for some, these are labelled as excuses) behind the lower sales.

oonowindoo

of course we give advice to all the clueless friends when they buy cars.

But usually 2 things will happen regardless what kind of advice i gave them:

1. They act like they understand but they have no idea what i am talking about and i dont even think they care what i am trying to tell them.
Example: Camry drives like a boat. Their reply is: really? i think it is very comfortable and reliable.
2. These clueless people always like to ask for advice but rarely accept them. They will still buy what they want to buy. Example: Prius

So since these clueless people make up for majority of the car buyers, research or not, they only care about brand, perceptions, looks and color. Everything else like if there is any current recalls, how many gears is the tranny, FWD/RWD mean shit to them.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

LOL yes man I can totally relate to that.

And I totally agree that most people tend to only care about brand, perception, looks, and color mainly. I'd also think they care about price and whether there are any cool features.

Anyhow, I still feel that the recall would still have a bit of an effect. I maintain that a longer period of time is needed to see how well the TLX is going to sell.

TSX69

Is Acura Too American to Compete Globally?

ASAHIKAWA, Japan -- Honda Motor Co.'s global r&d chief is blunt about Acura's challenge: It aims to be a global brand, but its U.S. engineers have little experience designing global vehicles.

"Acura is an American brand," Yoshiharu Yamamoto said during a drive event at Honda Motor Co.'s nearby proving ground in northern Japan. But if Acura doesn't evolve into a global brand, he said, the marque's business model is going to "get tough."

The problem: American engineers have tunnel vision for the gigantic U.S. market, while Japanese engineers for years have been designing cars with an eye to world markets.

"America r&d looks at domestic America very well, but it seems it is still a bit difficult to make optimal models while looking at China, India and the rest of the world," Yamamoto said.

"The Japanese market is small, and our carmaking has always had to think about overseas as the main markets," he added. "The American business is huge, and they look almost only at America."

That may be a hurdle for Acura as executives in Japan and the U.S. grapple with how to establish it as a global premium brand.

Most of Acura's lineup is engineered and manufactured in North America, but it was not always that way.

The brand made waves when it was launched in 1986 as the 1st Japanese luxury marque. When Acura debuted, all its vehicles were assembled in Japan. Today, only the flagship RLX is built there.

Only 1 Acura model is even sold in Japan: the RLX, badged as the Honda Legend. The U.S.-made NSX sports car eventually will be sold in Japan -- also with a Honda badge.

"Though it started with Japanese technologies, after 20 and some years, now we consider it born in America," said Koichi Fukuo, Honda Motor's senior managing officer who oversaw the Acura Division until Nov. 1, when he took a new role as global quality czar.

Acura's 2014 global sales totaled 195,000 vehicles, down from a record 232,000 in 2005. North America accounted for 97% of the 2014 volume, with China pitching in 4,464 vehicles and another 1,173 coming from Russia, Turkey and Ukraine.

Ironically, Acura has even less global reach than American-born premium brands such as Cadillac.

Cadillac sales outside the U.S. and Canada in 2014 totaled 83,409.

"Acura needs to follow Cadillac's strategy of introducing a performance vehicle that is considered revolutionary, but offer it at a price that is consistent with consumer perceptions of the Acura brand," said Eric Lyman, TrueCar's vice president of industry insights.

Kelley Blue Book data show Acura buyers cross-shop Toyota, Honda, Ford, Nissan and Mazda more than any premium brands, underscoring the gap between Acura and its intended rivals.

Acura aims to set up a channel this year targeting rich markets in the Middle East.

The feeling in Japan, though, is that Acura needs better traction in its adopted home market to have any real shot overseas. "Unless we establish the brand properly" in America, Yamamoto said, "we think there will be no global deployment."

fsttyms1

Yea, Ok.... Maybe with blinders on

AZuser

ttribe

If true, that KBB data is not good. Not good, at all.

oonowindoo

Well it is really not that hard to believe.

Acura keeps pushing "value" while the the commodity brands are getting more expensive with more standard features.

Many current Acura buyers only focus on "value, i am getting a TLX at 35k!!! with navi and everything" But when they don't realize when the car is so cheap it also brings the brand perception down and the inability to sell anything over $40k.

Be careful what you wish for!