iforyou

iTrader: (1)

yea, I agree, I mean, IMO, having another nomenclature (in this case, VCM) would be even better.

TSX69

Acura Brand to Launch in Europe in 2010 w/ New NSX
Late last month we showed you sketches of what the next NSX production car would look like. The sportscar flagship was due for unveiling in production trim at last year's Tokyo Auto Show, but due to Honda's designers not agreeing on the final design, they delayed it. The newest reports have the new NSX launch the Acura brand in Europe when it is released in the fall of 2010.

Unlike the original NSX, the new car will be powered by a 4.5 liter V10 engine good for about 550 horsepower and positioned ahead of the driver, with the public unveiling at the 2009 Tokyo Auto Show, according to Autocar sources from Japan. At the same time, that car will not have the same long nose as the concept (pictured) but "Corvette overtones."

Soon after the brand and the NSX launch in Europe, Honda will follow it up with a range of rear-wheel drive sedans no doubt based on the NSX platform, in order to compete with the likes of Infiniti, Lexus and BMW. The first big sedan, aimed to compete with BMW's 7-series, should be out in 2015.

dom

When is the Tokyo Auto Show?

And what does that mean for the RL replacement supposedly due in 2011? Based off the Accord until 2015?

3.5RLv-tec?

iTrader: (2)

O yea baby, big sedan with rear wheel drive!! That's why I love the first gen... RL lol

Whiskers

So maybe I can get an Acura here?

LuvMyTSX

A little redundant, but this is from vtec.net, who got it from autocar.


Autocar.co.uk says prospects are looking good for rear-drive sedans in Acura's future
Date: April 17, 2008 10:16
Submitted by: Jeff
Source: http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...llCars/232305/
Credibility Rating: Not Specified



Takeo Fukui has been dropping hints that FR sedans could be in Acura's future, but now the British magazine Autocar claims to have inside sources in Japan confirming that these are indeed in the plans. Said to be in the works are a range of rear-drive saloons (sedans), including a 7-series competitor, which should be ready by around 2015. Autocar also states that development on the next-generation NSX is "complete" and that we should finally be seeing the car debut at the 2009 Tokyo Motor show, after its initial 2007 TMS debut was scotched. Production is said to be set for the fall of 2010, which coincides with the launch of the Acura brand in Europe.

The familiar numbers of 4.5, 10, and 550 (as in litres, cylinders, and horsepressure) all remain intact for this latest report. A fresh twist is the promise that the engine will offer "racecar-like acoustics". Styling of this next NSX is said to have taken on "Corvette overtones", which is a bit amusing since the C5 Corvette borrowed a few cues from the original NSX.

Another interesting tidbit from Autocar's piece is that Acura "could be" working on an S2000-based 2-seat sports car that would be better positioned to compete against vehicles such as the SLK.

mrdeeno

Maybe this "source" is the same guy who said Maybach and Bentley are Acura's benchmarks.

Again, less talk and more action. As secretive as Honda is about something less than a year away, how would news as big as this and much longer away "slip"?

GreenMonster

2015 for a rwd sedan ?? Damn... that's 7 years from now....

godfather2

more than 6 cylinders ftw

elessar

I know that shouldn't sound any sillier than "horsepower" but for some reason it cracks me up. Damn limeys.

elessar

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

You're surprised by their plans? Sounds pretty to me.

LuvMyTSX

I didn't even notice that before. Haha....it is funny sounding.

krio

Acura in Europe???
That's the BEST news I could hear!!!
In Italy official dealers by 2011?? uncredible!!!
I'm waiting 1 and half month from the USA my broken right side glass for my MDX 2008...

Black Tire

hell no i am not waiting till 2015. The world is going to end on 2012 anyways!

charliemike

ROFL ... Acura's not gonna get away with that badge-engineering shit in Europe.

biker

Exactly. They'd have to dumb down cars like the Euro Accord cause Europeans buy much less for the badge than Americans. Acura has a lot of catching up do tho it's not like Lexus or Infiniti have a great lead.

dom

I'm sure you won't have bought anything by then anyway.

supraken

iTrader: (1)

Hopefully, Acura is still around by 2015 and has not been bought out by Hyundai or some Chinese auto makers..

GreenMonster

That fits in perfectly with my schedule actually

I just think it's funny that Hyundai has a RWD V8 sedan coming out in 2008, and Acura doesn't even have plans for one until 7 years from now...

By the time Acura comes out with a RWD vehicle, I'll be to old for a sporty car, and probably will be shopping for a awd or fwd that's good in the snow

fsttyms1

Its about time. But damn, come on 2015

Mokos23

If Acura launches there, what will become of the Euro Accord since it's the TSX?? Sounds like just wishful thinking to me.

Oh gosh when I hear 2015, I always think of Back to the Future 2.

biker

It's assumed that by then Acura will have a RWD platform for all it's cars and won't be badge whoring Hondas. Tho the timing would be off - both the TSX and TL would be up for new designs in MY13/14 so 2015 would not be a good time in the design cycle.

If many/all designs were somehow based on the NSX platform things should happen before 2015 since supposedly the NSX details have been settled and now it's just a matter of getting the car out by next year. Then a full sized 7 series class car 1-2 years later and eventually midsized and compact sedans another 1-2 years after that. If Acura were really serious, the TSX and new TL due in the fall may be the last of the FWD platform cars in the lineup.

The above would also seperate the SUV platforms from sedans as those would stay much more closely linked to their Honda cousins - tho that's not much different from what Lexus does with their SUVs.

biker

The other article about the NSX also mentioned that this new RWD platform will also be used on the next RL and TL. The thing is I don't see Honda doing away with the current idea of the TL (FWD platform borrowing many things from the USDM Accord) just like Lexus has kept the ES around in a RWD lineup. The TL is too much of a cash cow to give up. So the RL will be the GS equivalent (with something above the RL to compete with full sized offerings) while the TSX will change to RWD to compete in the entry level category. They have to change the TSX from the EuroAccord platform anyway cause it won't sell as a rebadged Accord in Europe.

Edward'TLS

Yeah, finally Honda has to admit defeat for it's stubborn on insisting FWD for it's "luxury" Acura line. You just can't bend people into buying stuffs that they don't want.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yup, after enjoying sales success for so long, it's about time to move on.

biker

I can see what Honda plans to do but I'm not sure it'll work. The plan probably is to have a 90K NSX, 70K full size sedan, a 50K RWD RL type mid sized sedan and a 30K RWD TSX that would be smaller than the current TSX. And in between the RL and TSX, keep the TL (with its Accord based FWD platform) at 40K. Basically the same line up Lexus has. But the roll out will start at the top and work its way down. What happens if both the NSX and the 70K sedan bomb - does Honda keep bleeding cash to continue the roll out? To save some cash Acura will probably switch to longer redesign cycles (6-7 years) like the others. That again cold spell trouble if sales tank. I just hope Honda has the right product and has the guts to wait out what surely will be some rough early going.

mrdeeno

and just think...they could have gone through the "teething" a long time ago when it would have hurt much less; when there was no threat of Hyundai overshadowing them at the lower end of the segment, Infiniti was a joke, before lexus really got big, and when gas prices were less of an issue and having a V8/RWD made more sense than it does now.

JediMindTricks

finally some good news from acura?

biker

For a very long time Honda maybe thought they could succeed using the Audi model - platform whore Honda models and use AWD at higher power levels. Someone then figured out that maybe that was not such a good idea and they decided to follow the Lexus model. Maybe the flop of the RL finally drove them to it

mrdeeno

We actually don't know if it has drove them to it yet or not...I have no faith in what Acura says because come 3 years from now, they can pull a "Market conditions don't warrant <insert expectation here>, so we abandoned that direction." Look at the NSX successor...how many different concepts did they showcase saying that it will be the successor, and then kill it at the last minute? Even worse, they don't issue any kind of statement saying they are not following through with the "rumors" they let loose 2-3 years prior, they just don't follow through quietly hoping no one notices they aren't doing what they said.

mrdeeno

There is 2 problems that come to mind when Acura is copying Audi's model:

1. They are copying Audi's model in the mid-luxury segment (ie A6/RL)...but why? The A6, especially the current model, is not selling well at all. Leave it up to Acura to copy losers. The last accord had many similar cues to GM vehicles...the new Acura "corporate" grille is something out of Saturn.

2. When I say "copying", I say that very loosely, because Acura may get somewhere if they did COPY Audi...instead they only do a half-ass imitation:
Audi has V8 engines/Acura does not. Audi has shifted to longitudinally mounted engines and separate platforms from VW/Acura stayed with transversely mounted so they can stay with the global MS platform. Audi has AWD offered throughout the lineup/Acura currently only has it on the RL and the SUVs. Audi has many options and drivetrain/engine choices/Acura only has type-S models, but very few major options and trim choices and no engine/drivetrain choices to speak of. Audi doesn't scrimp on material selection/Acura scrimps on interior materials. Audi has convertible models/Acura has none. Audi has high-end performance models/Acura has none. Audi's aren't bland as Acuras and have tasteful designs/Acuras are conservatively designed and will have ugly grilles in the future. Audi has upper-luxury models/Acura does not.

If they're going to copy, then copy, not make these "half-ass" attempts as they have done. That's why we all say Acura has no direction...they don't choose a direction and commit, instead they flip and flop like a fish.

phile

No it's not.

elessar

Fixed.

biker

They're not totally going to copy - even Lexus hasn't done that. But the general formula is there and you see it being rolled out in new models - TL w/ AWD. The TSX wll probably have it in a couple of years - basically and all SH-AWD line up like an all Quatro lineup at Audi.

Some of these huge changes take a real long time to implement - I believe it when Honda says that early designs of the NSX were wrong and they went back to the drawing board. There was no rush to get the NSX out. And from the recent articles about the NSX one of the reasons they may have gone back to the drawing board is that they plan to platform whore parts of the NSX in other sedans. To do that the NSX platform may have needed changes.

I have a feeling that they are committed now but it will take a long time to actually see the products. Sure, outside factors could implode the whole idea, but once they spent the money on the NSX (sounds like that's already done) and the big sedan, the "might as well" factor could push along the rest of the lineup.

BTW, you can't compare sales Audi to Acura as any kind of success or even Audi sales in absolute terms. Audi never had huge sales, they never were anywhere near the lead like Acura was and still is to some point. And it took Audi many many years to get over the Audi 5000 fiasco.

mrdeeno

but they DIDN'T copy Audi's "general" formula. I can come up with a HUGE list of major factors that what makes Audi what it is, and the ONLY thing Acura is copying is AWD, and it takes more than one thing to be considered copying a "formula". Acura CURRENTLY has only 1 AWD sedan. Even Lexus and Infiniti CURRENTLY have more than 1 AWD sedan. When Acura rolls out the TL w/ AWD, then they will only have the same number of AWD sedans as Lexus and Infiniti. There's NO evidence the TSX will get AWD at this point.

Even if Acura's lineup is eventually all AWD...it would be more accurate to say they are copying Subaru than copying Audi.

Edward'TLS

Acura is FORCED to use AWD for it's >290hp cars, because of the lack of RWD chassis. It doesn't have any other choice.

It follows (not copies) Audi's path, because Audi is also in the same situation with no RWD chassis. All car makers with no RWD chassis have to do the same for their >290hp cars unless they want them to handle like shit.

Now Audi is also forced to recalibrate the Quattro system to be more rear-biased, just like the MMC RL, in order to compete with the high performance RWD luxury cars.

biker

The general idea is you take your pedestrian platform (Honda and VW) and you platform whore or badge engineer a "luxury" model (Acura and Audi) out of it. To differentiate the pedestrian makes from the luxury makes you add AWD, spruce up the interior and perhaps sprinkle a dash of something else. That is more or less true for both brands. Audi did it a long time ago and Acura is coming around to that now. Some details might be different but the high level formula is the same.

Of course if the initial post of this thread is to be believed, this formula will only last this design cycle after which Acura will switch to the Lexus formula.

mrdeeno

But what you're saying is true for Toyota/Lexus and Nissan/Infniti also. Toyota's ES, RX, and GX are more prestigous versions of more "pedestrian" cars. Nissan is slightly different because they took a more hard-edged car instead of a more "pedestrian" car.

But besides taking a FWD "pedestrian" car and adding luxury and AWD to it, that's where any similarities between Acura and Audi end, and I would not be inclined to call it copying the "general" idea, because every other automaker uses this "general" idea. Further, as I mentioned before, there is still ONLY 1 car that copied this idea from Audi, and soon to be 2. And then what? the next generations will switch to RWD according to the rumors? This would be further evidence that Acura has no idea WTF they are doing...again. First they were adamant about staying FWD until the HP creeped up on them. Then they decide to go AWD (if your thoughts are correct they will bring AWD through the entire lineup). But then even BEFORE they get a 2nd AWD model in the lineup, they have already started rumoring that they'll switch to RWD?

Sounds like a kid I knew in college. Freshman year he was gung-ho about being a mechanical engineer. Sophmore year he decided he liked industrial engineering better (reading between the lines: he couldn't hack the work). He "decided" to switch completely and go to marketing his junior year (reading between the lines: he again couldn't hack the work) and before the year was over, he had already decided that the following year he was going to be a psychology major because he was so "interested" in the mind. What next? I don't know because i had graduated already when he was starting to work on his next major, and how many others he chose after that.

But the point is, all these actions, statements, and rumors point to the same thing many of us here have been pointing out for a long long time...Honda can't decide which direction to take Acura and have shown no reason for anyone to actually believe they have set a direction even if the source is directly from them.

Edward'TLS

The Acura-Honda business model isn't quite the same as the Audi-VW business model.

For Audi-VW, people are paying premium on Audi-brand vehicles for their reliability over the VW-brand vehicles. Over the years, Audi reliability has been greatly improved, even though it is still lag behind those of Toyota and Honda. On the other hand, VW reliability continues to remain poor. This is the most significant difference that separates the luxury Audi brand from the economy VW brand. Nowadays AWD is not exclusive to the Audi brand, with the 4Motion AWD option available for the VW Passat sedan.

But for Acura-Honda, with reliability out of the picture, there isn't much significant to distinguish between the two brands other than SH-AWD and a much steeper price tag. That's why bringing V8/V10/V12 and RWD to the Acura brand becomes beneficial.