zamo

Right, and in order to move cars they need to throw in incentives. That's fine, but the market that will be hurt most is the pre-owned, as they are depreciated even faster.

SPUDMTN

I just received my monthly e-newsletter from Acura. This month, it featured a link to a new MDX commercial. Please find this link below:

http://www.acura.com/index.aspx?init...pe:video|num:4

There are three additional new (to me) commercials, along with one for the TL Type-S, TSX, and three for the RDX--all being new.

Anyway, I think this really is a step in the right direction, as they are starting to have a more distinctive look and feel to them.

Costco

Marketing can only go so far.... see exhibit A, aka the "Acura RL"


Meh.... there's NOTHING in their line-up (at least at the right price) that would make me want to sell my car and go out and buy, if I had the money.

charliemike

I'm single and there's definitely nothing there.

BUT, if I were married with a kid or two, I would definitely look at an MDX. I just love how Acura integrates all their gadgets and gizmos together in a nice looking interior.

VTEC Racer

And yet not a single commercial for the RL.

SpicyMikey

They've given up on trying to sell the RL. Not sure I agree with them but even my local dealer doesn't have one on the showroom floor

The RL is getting a redesign next summer. Let's see how they start advertising it then.

By the way, I agree with the OP. It does seem like Acura has stepped up advertising in the last few months.

fsttyms1

now if they would listen to the customers and make RWD and V8s and slightly larger cars (RL)

SpicyMikey

I love the SHAWD system. Much prefer it over a standard RWD config. I can't see that being a source of poor sales -- especially at the RL's price point and category. 10/4 on the larger engine and length though. That's hurting the RL for sure among Honda/Acura shoppers with the TL being so close in size. They need to separate the two. It's also true the new Accord is basically the same size as the RL, but I don't think there's a lot of cross shopping going on between an RL and an Accord

dom

With 320 sales in November, the RL is being crossed shopped period.

JediMindTricks

while i have been seeing more commercials lately, is it me or are they airing the same christmas commercial with each of the models in the showroom driving off when the dealer closes shop?

GreenMonster

Moog-Type-S

Same commercial from last year...or even two years ago.
Acura marketing FTL

Alperovich

acura really does need to step it up with the RL, as a G2 Legend owner, i'm very disappointed with the RL. i love how it looks, when i parked my g2 next to it, you can see very distinct similar lines btwn the 2 cars. however, they are still! making the same mistake with the car as they did with the G2, its a tag too small. lacks real power (atleast for the price), its good they stepped up to AWD atleast. now, since its already AWD, making it just RWD should be an easy task. hopefully acura has come to its senses.

on a side note, i really like the new TL. always have, ever since day one, and its improvements over the year and now with the 3.5 TL-S 6spd's, wow. i like, but i would also like to see that car with RWD and AWD like on the IS and GS models (lexus duH!)

and for pete's sake, MR G2 NSX.

/rant

JediMindTricks

thanks...i thought so.

SPUDMTN

Hey, at least they're making new commercials. While not extremely distracting, they're nicely done IMHO. And there's some continuity; they're carrying the "Advance" theme through quite well...notice the end of the commercials when they do a variation on the theme.

And they're a little more interesting than what we've seen in the past.

While advertising is not the only aspect of marketing, it plays a major role. So for Acura to come up with some decent material--again, key here is improvement--is a big deal.

It's progress, is what I'm saying. It may not be leaps and bounds. Baby steps, folks...baby steps.

SPUDMTN

The fact that they did not create any new commercials for the RL provides for further evidence that the RL refresh will likely be coming out soon. It seems as though it's a statement that there's no sense in spending the marketing money right now when we'll be debuting a MMC RL here soon...

Bring it on...cannot wait to see what the future holds for the RL.

JediMindTricks

+1.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

Speaking of marketing, last week when I was at the dealership there was a poster ad for the MDX and it was perched on top of a rocky area and they made it look like a fossil site where other manufacturers cars were the fossils They had a Bimmer, Volvo, and I another manufacturers car but I don't remember which manufacturer.

I don't understand why we hear so many different reports from Acura about who they intend to compete with and then their marketing says otherwise.

JediMindTricks

well, it's obviously because bentley and maybach don't have SUVs.

Edward'TLS

There will be no future for the RL unless it has a V8 or at least a 400hp V6, and a much lowered MSRP.

yohan81718

^ price needs to stay as is... it just needs more upscale package/features/power/etc

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

Who are you expecting them to compete against with a lower MSRP and a higher engine output?

The RL should be competing against the likes of the Q, 7 series, LS, and E or S Class, and S8. The RL needs to move higher up in the market segment and be ravamped as a true flagship of the Acura Monicker and in the opening gap created by the upward move, newer models should be brought in like a 5 and A6 series competitor or make the TL a higher tiered model to add more of a gap between the TSX and TL thereby making more room to introduce a TSX-S that can lay between the base TSX and TL which at the moment is a tight gap.

JediMindTricks

hyundai!

or acura can just let the RL keep competing against the 5, E, M, GS, etc and make a brand new model to compete against the large sedans.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

At the rate Acura is going, they will be doing just that.


I think that would be a bad move. For years Acura has been "trying" to make themselves appear that they are at the forefront of engineering technology. We all know they lost that a long time ago when they couldn't keep up with Lexus and Infiniti. To NOT reinvent the RL (previously the legend) into a higher tiered competitor would be admiting they took the wrong direction with the RL in the first place They wouldn't, stratch that. They SHOULDN'T want to give the other manufacturers the ability to say that Acura didn't have it in them from the beginning, then again, Acura's latest stint of ADD isn't helping them secure any foothold on the market in any category IMO.

Moog-Type-S

The Genesis will put the RL to shame.

Ikko

Mmmm.......sad, but maybe true!!!

JediMindTricks

phile

At this point, even a loaded Accord can do that, don't have to wait for the Hyundai.

I remember reading a post from one of the admin at TOV....he even said the Accord was like 3/4 of the RL but at 1/2 the price. Ouch.

Edward'TLS

Man, every car makers WISH they had cars to compete with the Q, 7-, MB E/S, and Audi S. But can they ? <- that's the big question mark.

The current RL tried to move upmarket and failed miserably. When you compete, you need to be in the same or better playing field. Without the minimal hardware all these other cars have, such as V8 and RWD, the RL can never be able to compete with them.

With RL's dangling model image and Acura's 2nd-grade brand image, the RL has to undercut the others with a price advantage in order to restore buyer's trust and recognition.

Wishes and reality are two vastly different things in life.

Brandon24pdx

They need to bring back the Legend moniker and put a 4.0 DOHC V8 with SH-AWD in it.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

American manufacturers have been attempting to undercut the other manufacturers for years with cars that have stronger motors and lower MSRP's and look what's it's done for them.

In addition, how many upper tiered manfacutures are you refering to that wish they could compete with the cars that I mentioned? Acura is one of the few 2nd teired manfacutrers (honda/Acura, toyota/lexus, infiniti/nissan) that hasn't been able to compete. Jaguar, Saab and a few others are in a league of their own IMHO. Acura has a larger presense on the market than those two and is the only one left that hasn't been able to, so I don't understand what "other" manufacturers you are refering to.

Moog-Type-S

Fixed...don't need to make it more bloated.

SPUDMTN

The current RL did not try to move upmarket. The RL has always been positioned as a midsize luxury car, built to compete with the Audi A6, BMW 5er, Mercedes-Benz E-class, Infiniti M, and Lexus GS. It has never tried to position itself as an A8, 7er, or S-class fighter; and as far as I'm concerned, it never should be.

Do these other vehicles have V8s and RWD? Yes. But the MAJORITY of the vehicles sold are V6s. As such, the RL directly competes with the A6 3.2 Quattro, 535xi, E350 4matic, M35x and GS350 AWD. All of these vehicles are midsize $50k AWD V6s, and each is in the 300hp arena (just like the RL).

I'm not denying the fact that the RL is not the halo car everyone is longing for. It's not supposed to be though. The Acura line needs a separate vehicle slotted above the RL. Everyone simply assumes that because the RL is the current range topper that it is in the same ranks as the prestige luxury sedans offered by the European makes; it's not.

The problem isn't that the RL is NOT competitive; it most certainly is in all aspects. In fact, it's the most well-balanced vehicle in its class (read what the press has to say about the car). The problems are that 1.) it simply is not distinctive enough (in its own class and in the Acura lineup) and 2.) it was not properly marketed.

The first issue will likely be resolved in the next iteration of the RL, as it will be born out of Acura's dedicated design studio in Torrance, CA (as opposed to Japan). We have seen American Acura designs (TL, MDX, RDX) and know what they're capable of putting together; each of these models have been quite impressive and the market has backed this up, as well.

The second issue will in part be addressed through good advertising. With these new commercials, and with Acura's new focus/theme ("Advance"), it appears they are headed in the right direction. Further, the cohesion between all of their latest designs shows that they have at least identified the marketing problem.

With the up-coming introduction of the new TSX and TL, we will be gliven a glimpse as to what the future will hold for the RL. Within the next month or so, I'm sure we'll have a good idea as to just how great the next RL will be (assuming it will be head and shoulders above its smaller siblings).

Edward'TLS

Please don't make a fool of yourself by comparing Acura with the domestic Big3 manufacturers. It's image problem again. People associate Toyota, Honda, and Nissan with quality, reliability, and high-residual-value products; whereas people associate the Big3 with sub-quality, unreliable, and low-low-residual-value products. How often do you see Japanese vehicles in the rental car fleets ? You only see Big3 vehicles in rental fleets, and the whole market is always flooded with rental fleet returns. So much for the residual value, so much for the Big3 brand image. So no matter how strong the motors and how cheap the MSRP for the Big3 products, still no one's gonna buy them. But if they keep on improving and cutting back on fleet sales, 10-15 years later, they may come back to become competitive.

I hate to repeat myself over and over again. What Lexus has achieved today is mostly due to the Lexus LS400 V8 RWD flagship sedan that was introduced 18 years ago at a bargain price of $40K. It might not make much money at that time, but it sure attracted lot of buyers to sample what a fine product Lexus was. Gradually people liked it, people accepted it, people recognized it. Lexus cars were highly praised. The Lexus brand gained fame. 18 years, no less.

With the current RL model image, do you really think that people will start buying the new RL if it is priced the same as the true luxury competitors ? It's like asking will you still buy the Honda Accord if it's MSRP is the same as the Acura TL. No, the Accord has to have a price advantage to attract buyers. Same with the RL to attract unsure buyers.

As for other car makers who want to compete, Mazda was one. Not too long after Acura, Lexus, and Infinit had launched, it wanted to create an upmarket brand (Armanti) as well. However, Mazda was wise and decided to drop the plan because it knew it couldn't compete without V8 powerplants and RWD chassis in it's stable. But there is always the not-so-wise car maker still trying hard to crack into this highly profitable true luxury segment.

Edward'TLS

True that most luxury car buyers buy the V6 models. But V8 must also be there not to improve sales, but to improve brand and model image. Why the true luxury car makers go to great length to introduce performance divisions such as MB's AMG, BMW's M, Audi's S/RS when most people opt for the V6 trim ? It's because it's all about image. Performance boosts model image, and also boosts brand image. In respect, this is one form of marketing. V8, V10, high hp claims are all marketing tools. They are most effective in boosting images. With highly regarded and highly recognized images, cars move by themselves.

People don't care if the RL is not the halo car for Acura. They tend to look at the top-of-the-line car as a representative of the car brand. For BMW, people think of the 7-series. For MB, people think of the S- / CLS- class. For Audi, people think of the A8/S8. For Acura, people think of the RL. If the RL is not in the same rank as the top-line prestige luxury European sedans, too bad, then the Acura brand will never be in the same league as the true luxury car makers, and will always remain as the wanna-be luxury car maker which can't sell anything priced above $50K.

It's very tough to market a car to be in the same league as the other luxury competitors when the brand itself is not in the same league as the other competitors. The only solution is by undercutting the formitable competitors with a price advantage.

yohan81718

Fixed...need more power for flagship.

F23A4

Just for the record (and in case I missed any prior mention), the Q has been discontinued. The M45 now stands as a flagship fill in until a new Q appears.

And to Edward'TLS' whose last post clearly states the deal.

Costco

I foresee Hyundai overtaking Acura as a luxury brand in several years. They already have a RWD, V8-powered model in the making. As Edward said in above post, Acura has to resort to building cars with a lower price point in order to steal customers from Lexus, BMW, etc. Hyundai even undercuts Acura, and if they start making vehicles that can truly compete performance-wise, Acura is going to be left in the dust.

Acura is taking this at the wrong angle. This is just a band-aid solution for now, they need to build better, more interesting cars instead of finding out ways to market them better.

derrick

The answer is to come up with a new halo car ... 2nd gen NSX comes to mind.

Jokes aside -- a refresh in the RL is definitely a must. New powerplant options to remotely compete with the competition is also a must. Perhaps pull an Audi and bring the engine from their true 'halo car' (ie NSX V10) and shove it into their high end car (ie economy of scale) ... that might bring some credibility to the make ...

Costco

I'm pretty sure Acura has given up on the 2G RL. There should have been a refresh already, for 2008, unless they're moving away from their 5-year vehicle lifespan.

For years we ask for RWD and they move in the opposite direction. Great job Acura, good luck with your next lineup.