Acura: RLX News
10-28-2013, 02:49 PM
#4441
Team Owner
What does RLX even exist? It is probably 1 of the 3 things:
1. Sales #?
2. To draw customers in to buy other Acura models?
3. To build prestige and reputation?
RLX failed miserably in all 3 categories and you don't understand why we don't like RLX here?
Acura is not BMW, Mercedes, Audi or even Lexus, It cannot afford to offer mediocre product and still expect any success in any of the 3 choices above.
1. Sales #?
2. To draw customers in to buy other Acura models?
3. To build prestige and reputation?
RLX failed miserably in all 3 categories and you don't understand why we don't like RLX here?
Acura is not BMW, Mercedes, Audi or even Lexus, It cannot afford to offer mediocre product and still expect any success in any of the 3 choices above.
10-28-2013, 02:53 PM
#4442
אני עומד עם ישראל
If this car was well received by the public it would sell. It's not, others are simply choosing anything but the RLX. That's not to say it isn't a bad car, but who really cares. Acura needs to understand it just can't put out okay or good cars, like the Germans. People will buy it purely because of the badge. They need to put out truly exceptional vehicles. The market has spoken. Same story as the RL just add an X.
10-28-2013, 02:55 PM
#4443
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
Okay. Let's just end this for the fanboys.
RLX is a great car.
But it just doesn't sell. People are too stupid to understand how good RLX really is.
Done.
Moving on.
RLX is a great car.
But it just doesn't sell. People are too stupid to understand how good RLX really is.
Done.
Moving on.
10-28-2013, 02:56 PM
#4444
Midnight Marauder
Others are saying it doesn't compare to BMWs or Mercedes, that is not true, it's comparable at its price point for what you are getting. Still others are making claims that it has bad characteristics that don't actually exist. Ultimately what you are doing is expecting more for less because of brand image.
Unfortunately, because of poor brand management, in order for Acura to be competitive they really do have to offer a lot more for the same price. Your Acura TL Type-S is a great example of that. It sold great because it had great styling, had a competitive feature set for the time, and was significantly cheaper than the 3 series/C Class/ IS of the time.
10-28-2013, 03:18 PM
#4445
Buying an RLX requires careful thought, logic, an admiration for understated design, and an emphasis on good value.
Its a good car. Does that make it a car that I want and would spend extra for? No.
Its like going on an arranged date with the girl your Mom wants you to go out with vs. a chick your loins desire. I'd go out with the hot chick.
Its a good car. Does that make it a car that I want and would spend extra for? No.
Its like going on an arranged date with the girl your Mom wants you to go out with vs. a chick your loins desire. I'd go out with the hot chick.
10-28-2013, 04:18 PM
#4446
I feel the need...
10-28-2013, 04:26 PM
#4447
Team Owner
10-28-2013, 04:27 PM
#4448
^^Well, I was trying to be nice to the fanbois, since that's their argument.
As if content and value is what works at this price point.
As if content and value is what works at this price point.
10-28-2013, 04:40 PM
#4449
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Thats NOT the point though. The point is is its Acura's Flag ship car, and it is TOO similar to the accord. You can get 95% of the RLX with the Accord for 20-25k less. There just isnt enough to set it apart as far as Hondas Luxury brand (Acura) vs the Accord. Couple that with Bland styling and a front end that still elicits negative feedback from most and you have an unsuccessful recipe for a Flagship car. 
(that and WTF were they thinking by giving the car so little headroom)
(that and WTF were they thinking by giving the car so little headroom)
Anyway, that was not my point. I am not saying that the RLX is worth $20-$25k over the Accord because it has a nicer interior or has more features. The thing is, with luxury cars, it's about diminishing rate of returns. Luxury cars rarely beat normal family sedans in terms of bang for the buck.
Again, what I have been saying is that, the RLX offers competitive performance, decent handling and ride in the class, and loads of features while being thousands of dollars cheaper than the others. Like I said before, I don't agree with its pricing structure (i.e. base price is scary high, prompting people to make comparisons to the Accord Touring), I don't think its styling is attractive, and it simply does not have the brand power.
It would certainly help and be nice if the RLX was in the same class as the other flagships but as stated by fsttyms1, Acura's problem is the RLX isn't leaps and bounds better than the Accord. Honda made the Accord too good. It's like the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.
If people are saying the RLX is a dressed up Accord, what are people going to say when the TLX comes out? Where is Acura going to go with it? Naturally, they'll need to make the TLX better than the Accord, but it can't be too good as to intrude into the RLX's territory otherwise they'll cannibalize sales again like they did with the 4G TL and the 2G RL.
How is Acura going to distinguish the TLX from the Accord Touring and the RLX?
Price: It's a given the TLX will be priced under the RLX and above the Accord Touring. The Accord Touring is roughly $34K and the RLX starts at roughly $49K. The current TL starts at roughly $39K. That means the new TLX will probably start at around $40K.
Engine: What engine would you get for $40K? They can't put an engine in that's better than the RLX's 3.5 liter direct injected V6. At the same time, it would be going backwards and dumb to put in an engine that's worse than the 3.5 liter non-direct injected V6 in the Accord Touring and the current TL. Will they re-use the 3.7 liter V6 in the TL SH-AWD? What other engine choices do they have? This wouldn't be a problem if Acura had a V8 or turbocharged V6 for the RLX.
Performance: If you look at the performance numbers (0-60, 0-100, rolling start, quarter mile, etc), the Accord V6 and the RLX are roughly identical. It would make no sense (IMO) for the TLX to have better performance than the flagship RLX. At the same time, it would make no sense for the TLX to perform worse than the RLX and the Accord Touring. Will they keep the TLX's performance #s the same as the RLX and Accord Touring then?
Interior space: On paper, the Accord and the RLX have the same amount of passenger volume, head room, leg room, hip room, shoulder room, and cargo volume. Will the TLX have more, less, or the same amount of interior space? Logically, it wouldn't make sense for it to have more space than their flagship RLX, right? That means it'll either have the same amount of space or less.
Tech: The tech in the Accord Touring and the RLX are different, but not by a whole lot. What kind of tech is the TLX going to have? Again, it logically wouldn't make sense for the TLX to have more/better tech than the flagship RLX. So Acura's options are slightly less tech than the RLX but more than the Accord Touring, or the same tech as the RLX.
I don't know if I'd pay $40K for a TLX which on paper will have an engine and performance that's the same as a $34K Accord and $49K RLX, interior space that may be less than or equal to the Accord and RLX, and tech that's somewhere in the middle of the Accord Touring and RLX.
Acura have painted themselves into a corner.
If people are saying the RLX is a dressed up Accord, what are people going to say when the TLX comes out? Where is Acura going to go with it? Naturally, they'll need to make the TLX better than the Accord, but it can't be too good as to intrude into the RLX's territory otherwise they'll cannibalize sales again like they did with the 4G TL and the 2G RL.
How is Acura going to distinguish the TLX from the Accord Touring and the RLX?
Price: It's a given the TLX will be priced under the RLX and above the Accord Touring. The Accord Touring is roughly $34K and the RLX starts at roughly $49K. The current TL starts at roughly $39K. That means the new TLX will probably start at around $40K.
Engine: What engine would you get for $40K? They can't put an engine in that's better than the RLX's 3.5 liter direct injected V6. At the same time, it would be going backwards and dumb to put in an engine that's worse than the 3.5 liter non-direct injected V6 in the Accord Touring and the current TL. Will they re-use the 3.7 liter V6 in the TL SH-AWD? What other engine choices do they have? This wouldn't be a problem if Acura had a V8 or turbocharged V6 for the RLX.
Performance: If you look at the performance numbers (0-60, 0-100, rolling start, quarter mile, etc), the Accord V6 and the RLX are roughly identical. It would make no sense (IMO) for the TLX to have better performance than the flagship RLX. At the same time, it would make no sense for the TLX to perform worse than the RLX and the Accord Touring. Will they keep the TLX's performance #s the same as the RLX and Accord Touring then?
Interior space: On paper, the Accord and the RLX have the same amount of passenger volume, head room, leg room, hip room, shoulder room, and cargo volume. Will the TLX have more, less, or the same amount of interior space? Logically, it wouldn't make sense for it to have more space than their flagship RLX, right? That means it'll either have the same amount of space or less.
Tech: The tech in the Accord Touring and the RLX are different, but not by a whole lot. What kind of tech is the TLX going to have? Again, it logically wouldn't make sense for the TLX to have more/better tech than the flagship RLX. So Acura's options are slightly less tech than the RLX but more than the Accord Touring, or the same tech as the RLX.
I don't know if I'd pay $40K for a TLX which on paper will have an engine and performance that's the same as a $34K Accord and $49K RLX, interior space that may be less than or equal to the Accord and RLX, and tech that's somewhere in the middle of the Accord Touring and RLX.
Acura have painted themselves into a corner.
I believe the TLX will replace BOTH TSX and TL. In other words, the TLX can be made into a proper 3-series, C Class competitor. The TLX will fill the void between the ILX and RLX. Here's how I see where the TLX will fit.
Size - ILX: 179"; RLX: 196"; TLX: ~185" (TSX is 186" now. 3 series is 182") I can see the TLX being around 3500lb (+/- 300lb depending on powertrain/options)
Price - ILX: $26k-$32k (excl. hybrid); RLX: $49-$61k (FWD); TLX: ~$30-$50k)
Engine: There can be many options here. I don't think Acura will be afraid to use the RLX's engine here. A6 uses A4's engines, E Class uses C Class engines, 5 series uses 3 series engines. There's the 370hp powertrain in the RLX so I don't think there's any issue.
I can see TLX having the following options in different combinations: K24W from Accord with a different tune (~210hp/180lbft), J30 from the Chinese RDX (~250hp/220lbft), J35 from RLX (~310hp/270lbft). Of course there could also be a hybrid variant. The above mated to 6MT, 6AT, CVT, or possibly DCT.
Performance: The 335i has better performance than 535i. The A4 2.0T has better performance than A6 2.0T. I don't see much of an issue. Again, the RLX has the 370hp powertrain to trump the TLX.
Space: If the TLX is positioned as a C Class/3 series competitor, I think having a bit less space is too much of an issue. The existing TSX still offers a decent amount of room and is not that much smaller than the Accord inside. The most notable difference is in rear legroom.
Tech: Kudos to the Accord again. Its list of features is good enough to shame a lot of luxury cars! I think the main differences between the Accord and TLX would be things like mechanical SH-AWD, paddle shifters, jewel-eye LED instead of normal LED headlights, much better sound system, better navi, better materials and quality (there's a big gap between Accord and RLX, so there's plenty of room for Acura to exploit), more sophisticated suspension setup for better handling and ride comfort, power folding mirrors, etc. There are other features found on the Accord that can be improved in the TLX (i.e. better navi system, better back up camera system, etc. Acura should offer some sort of sports package, if not a Type S trim.
I think it depends on how Acura executes the TLX. I am not too confident but if Acura also screw up the TLX, then Acura sedans are done for.
10-28-2013, 06:13 PM
#4450
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
http://www.cars.com/acura/rlx/2014/e...reviewId=59543
This is actually a very fair review for RLX.
The bottom line is that RLX is another head-scratcher by Acura.
This is actually a very fair review for RLX.
The bottom line is that RLX is another head-scratcher by Acura.
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10-28-2013, 06:59 PM
#4451
6G TLX-S
Anyway, that was not my point. I am not saying that the RLX is worth $20-$25k over the Accord because it has a nicer interior or has more features. The thing is, with luxury cars, it's about diminishing rate of returns. Luxury cars rarely beat normal family sedans in terms of bang for the buck.
Again, what I have been saying is that, the RLX offers competitive performance, decent handling and ride in the class, and loads of features while being thousands of dollars cheaper than the others. Like I said before, I don't agree with its pricing structure (i.e. base price is scary high, prompting people to make comparisons to the Accord Touring), I don't think its styling is attractive, and it simply does not have the brand power.
Again, what I have been saying is that, the RLX offers competitive performance, decent handling and ride in the class, and loads of features while being thousands of dollars cheaper than the others. Like I said before, I don't agree with its pricing structure (i.e. base price is scary high, prompting people to make comparisons to the Accord Touring), I don't think its styling is attractive, and it simply does not have the brand power.
Acura should drop $10-15K for all trim levels from the RLX's price tags, to offset it's lack of "brand power". Don't think car buyers are stupid.
But never for the BMW 3-series/5-series, and never for the MB C-class/E-class.
10-28-2013, 07:13 PM
#4452
Senior Moderator
Its funny to me that Hyundai can release a $60k+ flagship sedan that sells in the same numbers as the Acura RLX.
How long has Acura been in the "luxury" segment again...
p.s I like the RLX
How long has Acura been in the "luxury" segment again...
p.s I like the RLX
10-28-2013, 07:21 PM
#4453
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
Equus probably comes with a better set of tires and more aerodynamically designed side mirrors.
10-28-2013, 08:05 PM
#4454
10-29-2013, 01:31 AM
#4455
In spite of the 14 year advantage, I've read that the reason RL/RLX sales are on par with Equus sale is because Acura invested alot more in SUVs than sedans. and that that's where their priority was. Yeah. Doesn't seem like a valid reason to me either.
10-29-2013, 02:07 AM
#4456
6G TLX-S
.....
In spite of the 14 year advantage, I've read that the reason RL/RLX sales are on par with Equus sale is because Acura invested alot more in SUVs than sedans. and that that's where their priority was. Yeah. Doesn't seem like a valid reason to me either.
After so many years of no gain but defeat in the flagship premium sedan division, maybe Acura is really shifting priority from the sedan division to the SUV division, with which the latter is doing exceptionally well.
10-29-2013, 08:09 AM
#4457
Senior Moderator
I think this partially has to do with the power plenum design. It just seems to flow and fit the larger suv front end. On the sedans it seems to ruin the car and for what ever reason they cant seem to find the happy medium between Bland and WTF look at me styling.
10-29-2013, 05:46 PM
#4458
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Well, if the RLX doesn't have the "brand power", then Acura should stop pricing it as if the RLX has.
Acura should drop $10-15K for all trim levels from the RLX's price tags, to offset it's lack of "brand power". Don't think car buyers are stupid.
Acura should, because it has an unpleasant history that the TL used the same RL engine, and robbed the RL in sales.
But never for the BMW 3-series/5-series, and never for the MB C-class/E-class.
Acura should drop $10-15K for all trim levels from the RLX's price tags, to offset it's lack of "brand power". Don't think car buyers are stupid.
Acura should, because it has an unpleasant history that the TL used the same RL engine, and robbed the RL in sales.
But never for the BMW 3-series/5-series, and never for the MB C-class/E-class.
Bingo. That's exactly one of my points - the pricing structure of the RLX is messed up.
The thing with the 4G TL and 2G RL is that, it's more than just the fact that they both share the same engine. They both have similar SH-AWD setup. The TL is actually just as long and tall, while being a bit wider. They both have very similar interior dimensions too. As the 2G RL was an older design from 2005, while the 4G TL was a newer design, the TL in some instances have better technologies/gadgets than the RL. This is also due to the fact that Acura kinda gave up on the 2G RL by 2009.
The new TLX should not have those issues. To start, it is supposed to be noticeably smaller than the RLX and 4G TL. It's like a shopper interested in an Accord wouldn't suddenly be getting a Civic. I mean it happens sometimes, but most likely not.
10-30-2013, 12:56 AM
#4459
6G TLX-S
10-30-2013, 11:03 AM
#4462
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
Still haven't seen one on the road.
I bet Ferrari has better sales numbers.
I bet Ferrari has better sales numbers.
10-30-2013, 03:15 PM
#4464
Team Owner
yup. Most of the sales from that segment is from their entry level cars , 528, E350, A6 2.0T, GS350 and etc... So the more expensive ones will not help with the sale #.
Last edited by oonowindoo; 10-30-2013 at 03:18 PM.
10-30-2013, 03:56 PM
#4465
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
How much would that AWD one cost?
Like $70k fully loaded?
Like $70k fully loaded?
10-30-2013, 04:51 PM
#4466
Team Owner
probably.
At $70k. I will go buy 2 V6 accord for $60k and use the extra $10k to combine the 2 engines and 2 axles into 1 car...
I got my own W12 AWD super car
At $70k. I will go buy 2 V6 accord for $60k and use the extra $10k to combine the 2 engines and 2 axles into 1 car...
I got my own W12 AWD super car
10-30-2013, 05:35 PM
#4467
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An almost fully loaded BMW ActiveHybrid 5 without AWD and 335hp is over $80k.
An almost fully loaded BMW 535i xdrive with 300hp is at $80k.
An almost fully loaded BMW 550i xdrive with 445hp is at close to $90k.
An almost fully MB E400 Hybrid with 400hp and RWD is around $75k. E550 4matic will be in the $80's.
Will a fully loaded RLX eSH-AWD be at ~$70k? No idea.
Is it worth $70k? Depends on your priorities.
An almost fully loaded BMW 535i xdrive with 300hp is at $80k.
An almost fully loaded BMW 550i xdrive with 445hp is at close to $90k.
An almost fully MB E400 Hybrid with 400hp and RWD is around $75k. E550 4matic will be in the $80's.
Will a fully loaded RLX eSH-AWD be at ~$70k? No idea.
Is it worth $70k? Depends on your priorities.
10-30-2013, 05:41 PM
#4468
I drive a Subata.
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10-30-2013, 06:02 PM
#4469
Team Owner
An almost fully loaded BMW ActiveHybrid 5 without AWD and 335hp is over $80k.
An almost fully loaded BMW 535i xdrive with 300hp is at $80k.
An almost fully loaded BMW 550i xdrive with 445hp is at close to $90k.
An almost fully MB E400 Hybrid with 400hp and RWD is around $75k. E550 4matic will be in the $80's.
Will a fully loaded RLX eSH-AWD be at ~$70k? No idea.
Is it worth $70k? Depends on your priorities.
An almost fully loaded BMW 535i xdrive with 300hp is at $80k.
An almost fully loaded BMW 550i xdrive with 445hp is at close to $90k.
An almost fully MB E400 Hybrid with 400hp and RWD is around $75k. E550 4matic will be in the $80's.
Will a fully loaded RLX eSH-AWD be at ~$70k? No idea.
Is it worth $70k? Depends on your priorities.
Are 5 series overpriced? yes. Does it matter? No.
Is $70k RLX overpriced? yes, does it matter? YES!
I understand you are trying to compare apple to apple, but in reality the comparison doesn't produce anything.
10-30-2013, 08:31 PM
#4470
6G TLX-S
^^^^^
This is "brand image" at work once again.
Seems like Acura will be haunted forever by this "lack of brand image" ghost.
This is "brand image" at work once again.
Seems like Acura will be haunted forever by this "lack of brand image" ghost.
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10-30-2013, 09:22 PM
#4472
Moderator
10-31-2013, 11:57 AM
#4473
You'll Never Walk Alone
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see below..lol...
Ya..same old issue - brand image. Most people who spend $70k on a car WANT people to know that they are driving an expensive car. You can easily convey that to others by driving a 5 series or E Class. You can't really do that with any Acura. So if your main priority is brand image, even if the RLX can fly at $70k, it will still be seen as overpriced.
10-31-2013, 12:20 PM
#4474
I drive a Subata.
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I'll pay $70k for RLX if it can fly.
10-31-2013, 02:38 PM
#4475
The sizzle in the Steak
...and brand image is of extreme high importance in this class and segment....especially to the car makers.
It's what BMW, Mercedes, Audi, and Lexus spend huge amounts of $$ on to maintain, and grow that legacy of brand image.
Yes, it means that much to the brand and their sales.
...and clearly from a marketing standpoint, the buying public cares just as much as well.
It's what BMW, Mercedes, Audi, and Lexus spend huge amounts of $$ on to maintain, and grow that legacy of brand image.
Yes, it means that much to the brand and their sales.
...and clearly from a marketing standpoint, the buying public cares just as much as well.
11-01-2013, 12:18 PM
#4476
You'll Never Walk Alone
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Definitely. It doesn't just apply to sedans, but SUV's too. Most of my friends (or friends' parents) who drive the Q5's, ML's, and X3's wouldn't consider RDX and MDX at all.
11-01-2013, 02:02 PM
#4477
AZ Community Team
^ in my area I see the opposite, MDX's are on par and sometimes revered more (soccer moms who got tired of putting up with reliability and durability) than Q's, X5's and ML's. I know a couple ex-BMW owners who have MDX's because they prefer them.
in my area I see the opposite, MDX's are on par and sometimes revered more (soccer moms who got tired of putting up with reliability and durability) than Q's, X5's and ML's. I know a couple ex-BMW owners who have MDX's because they prefer them.
11-01-2013, 02:12 PM
#4478
The sizzle in the Steak
Cool story, bro
11-01-2013, 02:17 PM
#4479
AZ Community Team
^ I'll bring you a Honda hater story next time to make you feel all warm inside 
11-01-2013, 02:20 PM
#4480
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The MDX is considered the best SUV for the price range by many many reviewers. It's the one thing Acura is doing right.